Author Topic: Solo Sorcerer vs. Improved Irenicus on Insane  (Read 5699 times)

Althernai

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Solo Sorcerer vs. Improved Irenicus on Insane
« on: November 09, 2002, 03:56:41 PM »
This morning, I defeated Improved Irenicus with my level 32 solo Sorcerer from the first try. First a couple of bugs (I was not using the latest version - ignore it if this is what you meant by DLG fix in the readme).

1) When Selfish dies, you do not get the Cloak of Mirroring back. It used to be on his corpse, but not anymore. I looked on the floor with TAB - nothing. Nor is it anywhere in my inventory.

2) When you face Slayer Irenicus, I get this error message:

Action Errors:- Warning: Too few parameters: CreateCreature("Shadow01", [1900.2100] Line Number:2

My general strategies for anyone interested: Use Project Image or else you will run out of spells fast. I summoned a couple of Planetars as cannon fodder, then ran away and cast Project Image -] Time Stop -] Improved Alacrity -] selected spells. The first Image killed Pride - 3x Lower Resistance, 6x Scull Trap and a couple of Magic Missiles. The second Image killed Greed with 6 Magic Missiles and then took care of the Beholders and the Lich (I assume they show up when you play on Insane). Fear was killed by the Planetars when I wasn't paying attention. Image Number 3 dealt with Selfish (Horrid Wiltings and Scull Traps). I lost a couple of Images in this process because of the dispelling and because Wrath managed to get a hit on me (60 HP with one blow - ouch!). Using another Image, I summoned some more Planetars - unfortunately, they seemed to be unable to hit Wrath except on a Critical. Still, they killed him in the end.

The slayer form was relatively easy - Time Stop -] Improved Alacrity -] 3x Horrid Wilting (+ whatever damage the Planetars that were left over from killing Wrath had done). My big mistake here was that I forgot to use Project image and had thus only 4 level 9 spells remaining. I managed to finally get Rest with Wish, but not before getting a Planetar mad by intoxicating him.

The final form was extremely frustrating - I had trouble chasing him down with a full party, now I only had a single character. First, I managed to run away for long enough to put on my Robe of Vecna again. Then, I tried summoning tons of Planetars - except they seem to be unable to hit him when using their swords (wound up using Fists instead). My spells appear to do absolutely nothing to him - both damaging spells and stuff like Breach. He also managed to get 80 damage on me with Cone of Cold (this wouldn't have happened if Selfish had given me the Cloak back - I thought I was immune to damage) so I had to run around drinking healing potions (only 95 HP to start with). He couldn't kill me - but there wasn't anything I could do to him either. The Planetars do not do enough damage with their fists and he teleports away and heals. Interesting note: there is a summoning restriction even PI doesn't ignore - you can only have 1 Wizard Eye at a time. I SO miss my moose.

In the end, I had the Planetars (by this time, I was using around 5 at a time) all cast Insect Plague on him. It didn't stop him from teleporting, but at least he didn't heal. Still, this failed once - the Insect Plagues ran out, he ran away and healed again. I got him the second time - around 10 Insect Plagues and 5 Planetar fists. The weird thing was that he refused to die - he just lay down on the ground (maybe sub-dual damage - but he was far from any Planetar at the time). I killed him myself with one blow of SotM -  shouldn't he be immune to it?

Suggestion: can you make the final form a little less frustrating? He has a lot of infinities going for him.

1) Infinite and undisruptable teleport
2) Infinite healing
3) Infinite offensive spells (I don't mind this one)
4) Complete immunity to all spells except his own (I am not sure about this one, but it seems to be the case)
5) Weird weapon immunity - I thought it was Prot. from Magic Weapons, but then SotM killed him so...?  :huh:

Can you make his teleport disruptable? Or somehow make it so that I don't spend an hour (literally - it took me an hour to hunt him down) running after him? It is not fun. This applies to the full party as well as to the solo character - unless you can stop him from healing, it take a long time to kill him (except if you use stuff like Arrows of Biting).

I think Improved Irenicus is very hard to Solo with some classes. For example, I do not see a way to do it with a Mage who doesn't use Project Image (a Necromancer) - you run out of spells.  A Cleric - I am not sure; you will run out of spells and you are not good enough in melee due to lack of attacks/round. A Fighter probably could deal with the Sword of Greed somehow - Ring of the Ram, Ring of Energy; but then it would be hard for him to hunt down the final form of Irenicus - Arrows of Biting are the only thing I can think of. A bard or a thief - maybe if you lure them into Spike Traps - but I don't see you having much of a chance against the Fragments.                    

Offline weimer

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Solo Sorcerer vs. Improved Irenicus on Insane
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2002, 05:57:38 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to share your experience.

Finding the Cloak on Selfish was a bug from the past. However, it should be returned to you just like all of the other items. I can find absolutely no difference between it and the other items -- take a look at AR2900.BCS. I encourage everyone who knows anything about scripting to look at it and see if you can find a problem with the cloak-re-giving.

Since it is a transient bug that only bites some people (for example, it has never happened to me), I'm tempted to blame it on a bad installation.

My impression is that Project Image's "have infinite spells" didn't win the game for you so much as its "break the summoning barrier" aspect did. If Imp Iren had used PI to summon 50 planetars, your life would have been difficult as well. :-)

Final Irenicus is wearing his own Cloak of Cheese. If you are feeling frustrated fighting against it, you now know what IE AI scripters and the enemies in the game feel like. :-( I recommend disabling but non-damaging spells here. Slow, Chaos, Feeblemind, that kind of thing.

Why don't you have the Moose? Don't tell me you gave the acorns back? :-)

Final Irenicus alternates between casting Pro-Magic-Weapons and Improved Mantle. Both make him immune to +3 planetar swords. A normal party can alternate between +5 weapons (like SoTM) and non-magical weapons. The sleeping thing is the result of subdual damage, yes.

I will think about your suggestion that he be less frustrating. However, I think it was mostly a function of your party. Most of my "trial" parties result in Final Irenicus dead in 3 rounds. That makes for a kinda boring "final battle", ne? In addition, the README clearly states that it is intended for "well-balanced parties" -- you Solo sorc does not qualify (as much fun as Solo Sorcs are .. :-)). If you had had a Boots-of-Speed-ed Minsc with you, I think it would have been over much more quickly.

You are the only one to report taking an hour on him with a full party. Was everyone hasted?

At any rate, I am a big foe of "useless, wasted time" in BG2. Running after Irenicus in a stalemate certainly qualifies. However, most people don't seem to be having that problem (or they have it for, say, 5 minutes, and then they win).

I encourage suggestions from the floor: what would you do?

Making his teleport disruptable makes him way too easy. He only teleports when you standing next to him anyway, at which point you are always able to hit him with melee weapons if you pay attention, so he will always be disrupted. :-(

Since all of his non-teleport spells *are* disruptable, as soon as you get close to him you win. I am at a loss.
                   

Althernai

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Solo Sorcerer vs. Improved Irenicus on Insane
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2002, 06:52:11 PM »
Quote
My impression is that Project Image's "have infinite spells" didn't win the game for you so much as its "break the summoning barrier" aspect did.

Hmm... I don't think so.  Except for the last confrontation, the planetars were cannon fodder. Most of the damage was done by direct offensive spells (except to Wrath - for obvious reasons). I could have constantly used Time Stop + Improved Alacrity even with only one Planetar at a time and healed with the Rod of Resurrection, summoning a new one when necessary. Assuming Wrath is not immune to INT drain, I think I can do without them.

Quote
Final Irenicus is wearing his own Cloak of Cheese.

Then why didn't my Breach work? Or is he using SI: Abjuration?

Quote
You are the only one to report taking an hour on him with a full party. Was everyone hasted?

No, no - you misunderstood. I meant that if you simply chased after him, it would take a while. Every time I've fought him with warriors, I used some kind of arrows (first normal, then I figured out Biting would do the trick). It did take around 5 minutes with a full party. Had I known that he only teleports when something is near him, it probably would have taken a short time with the Sorcerer as well if I had used Energy Blades.  I was on the verge of using Time Stop + Shapechange: Mind Flayer, but two things stopped me - I thought he is immune to Magic Weapons and I was worried it killing him this way would break some trigger.

I think I shall withdraw my request to make him easier - I thought he was completely immune to all spells and had Magic Golem type immunity.

Quote
Why don't you have the Moose? Don't tell me you gave the acorns back?

Yes, I gave them back. The things I sacrifice to roleplay Neutral Good...                    

Althernai

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Solo Sorcerer vs. Improved Irenicus on Insane
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2002, 09:22:30 PM »
I just replayed it again to see if I could do it without multiple Planetars or more than 5 summons at a time - yes, I can. This time, the Cloak was on his corpse. By the way, I think the easiest way to kill the final form is to wait until he casts Improved Mantle, then cast Improved Haste on yourself, cast Time Stop and pound away at him with a +5 staff, casting Time Stop again every 3 rounds. With the Girdle of Frost Giant Strength, you do more than 20 damage per hit and you always hit during Time Stop, so he dies in under a minute.                    

Dundee Slaytern

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Solo Sorcerer vs. Improved Irenicus on Insane
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2002, 12:09:21 PM »
Just to share my own experience with the Improved Irenicus Mod. :)

Click Here

The fight is deceptively easy, once you realise the weak points. The first round is a matter of spell barrage. Not much can stand a constant flow of spells and summons.

The second round is even easier. A Contingency with Protection from Magical Weapons, followed by Time Stop, then Improved Alacrity, then Lower Resistance, then Greater Malison, and finally a Spell Trigger of Feebleminds.

QED

The third is possibly the easiest of them all. JI cannot see an invisible unit. Simply equip/re-equip your Staff of Magi and poke him to death.                    

Althernai

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Solo Sorcerer vs. Improved Irenicus on Insane
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2002, 01:22:51 PM »
Dundee, I think I've finally found somebody who uses more cheese than I do.  :)

In the second fight, I did not bother with Feeblemind - I did something like this: Prot. from Magic Weapons, Time Stop, Improved Alacrity, 3x Horrid Wilting and he died.

Poking him to death will not work in the third fight (he keeps healing himself) unless you use Time Stop or Feeblemind him first - which didn't seem to work for me (I cast it around 5 times after a Greater Malison). Time Stop and Improved Haste are great here - he died before the second Time Stop ended.                    



[!--EDIT|Althernai|Nov 10 2002, 09:23 PM--]

Offline weimer

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Solo Sorcerer vs. Improved Irenicus on Insane
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2002, 06:07:26 PM »
Thanks for your comments, Dundee.

I am not interested in making Irenicus able to defeat the SotM. That item is so powerful that no real scripting is possible against it. :-(

Now, as for the cloak-on-his-corpse thing. Here's the bit from the D file:

Code: [Select]
   IF ~PartyHasItem("clck26")~ THEN DO
       ~TakePartyItem("clck26") DestroyItem("clck26")
        SetGlobal("IITookCloak","AR2900",1)~ EXTERN ii1 s1

It would seem (although this should be impossible) that the TakePartyItem() bit worked, but then we didn't execute the Destroy() bit or the SetGlobal() bit. If TPI didn't work, you would still have the cloak. If TPI worked and DI worked, you would not find it on his corpse. If the Global were set, you would be given it after the fight.

Can you send me "script compiler\action.ids" and "override\action.ids"?

Breach does nothing against the Cloak of Cheese. II does use SI:Div and SI:Abj. His buffs are not "hidden", but you'd have to scroll back and read the text from the beginning of Part 3.



                   

Assassin

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Solo Sorcerer vs. Improved Irenicus on Insane
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2002, 11:06:29 PM »
Quote
Thanks for your comments, Dundee.

I am not interested in making Irenicus able to defeat the SotM. That item is so powerful that no real scripting is possible against it. :-(

Now, as for the cloak-on-his-corpse thing. Here's the bit from the D file:

Code: [Select]
   IF ~PartyHasItem("clck26")~ THEN DO
       ~TakePartyItem("clck26") DestroyItem("clck26")
        SetGlobal("IITookCloak","AR2900",1)~ EXTERN ii1 s1

It would seem (although this should be impossible) that the TakePartyItem() bit worked, but then we didn't execute the Destroy() bit or the SetGlobal() bit. If TPI didn't work, you would still have the cloak. If TPI worked and DI worked, you would not find it on his corpse. If the Global were set, you would be given it after the fight.

Can you send me "script compiler\action.ids" and "override\action.ids"?

Breach does nothing against the Cloak of Cheese. II does use SI:Div and SI:Abj. His buffs are not "hidden", but you'd have to scroll back and read the text from the beginning of Part 3.
                   Actually, you could combat it by just having Jon Irenicus cast Sunfire/Dragon's Breath/Comet on himself in case he can't detect anyone attacking him, and he is receiving damage.

I did that with Layene in Improved Twisted Rune.  Just stood next to her, and kept Sunfiring...                    

Offline weimer

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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2002, 03:12:40 AM »
While I appreciate the sentiment, anyone smart enough to be using the SotM to its fullest cheese-ball power will also cast Pro-Fire. :-)

This problem basically reduces to the "lich versus a pro-undead PC" problem, which I was never able to solve satisfactorily. My current solution is *very* heavy-handed, as many people point out. You can try casting sunfire and remove magic on yourself. People fall for that the first time and then stand exactly 21 feet away (or whatever) and use ranged attacks.

Scripted Layenne is *much* stupider than Average Player. While Sunfire worked for Human You against Invisible Scripted Her, it will not work as well for Scripted Her against Invisible Human You.

I have not been able to come up with a good strategy here that I was unable to defeat in my mind in under 30 seconds. It's a fun thought problem, though.                    

Graham_ku

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Solo Sorcerer vs. Improved Irenicus on Insane
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2002, 07:51:23 PM »
I have a question from all this.

Somewhere, Athenai says "I SO miss my moose" and Wes responds with "Why don't you have the Moose? Don't tell me you gave the acorns back? :-)".

Now, my question is simple (and probably naive) - What's a "Moose"?
What else can the acorns be used for that I had not realised before (and, it seems, only by evil characters, but even when playing one I missed finding any mooses).

Can anyone fill me in on this?                    

Kish

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Solo Sorcerer vs. Improved Irenicus on Insane
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2002, 07:59:04 PM »
Quote
Now, my question is simple (and probably naive) - What's a "Moose"?
An animal with antlers.
Quote
What else can the acorns be used for that I had not realised before (and, it seems, only by evil characters, but even when playing one I missed finding any mooses).
Unless you have the Improved Ilyich part of the Tactics mod, the acorns do absolutely nothing.                    

 

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