Author Topic: Valen romance  (Read 104063 times)

keLston

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #275 on: November 21, 2004, 05:12:02 AM »
what do you call a man you kisses a vampire. Dead. I mean really would you kiss someone who can suck the life energy right out of you? The only way you could EVER romance her is if she slipped and fell on the alter to amulator and was cured.

Doesn't Gambit do this in regards to Rogue? Her power is uncontrolled and doing so could more than easily kill him but he did it anyway. So I don't see why doing it to a vampire is such a bad thing. Vampires were human once, they are capable of emotion, they're not Vulcan. Why can a man not fall in love with a vampire? They have personality and I've never seen a professional artist render a female vampire as anything but scaldingly hot.

Being evil she has some similarities with Viconia which you're able to romance and redeem. Valen was tempted by evil and vampirism which does not mean she is evil by nature. Viconia was born evil and is evil by nature and simply rebelled against it. If you were man enough and balled up you could impress Valen. You can be a powerful good guy and tempt her to the path of good much like evil can tempt. What's wrong with that? You can be good and become rich, famous, and powerful.

Adding romance adds to the depth of character giving a basis of that side of uncontrollable emotion. If she cannot control her desire for power, if she desires a man, she would be easily tempted by one. These evil people easily fall to addictions and you can be addicted to phallic objects... yea, that's it.

Offline Kish

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #276 on: November 21, 2004, 05:30:18 AM »
Viconia was born evil and is evil by nature
Ahahahaha.
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Offline jester

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #277 on: November 21, 2004, 07:32:25 AM »
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These evil people easily fall to addictions and you can be addicted to phallic objects... yea, that's it.

???
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Offline neriana

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #278 on: November 21, 2004, 02:55:41 PM »
Viconia was born evil and is evil by nature
Ahahahaha.
Rosemary's baby!

Seriously, no.

I don't think I want to know what that "phallic objects addiction" thing is supposed to mean.
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Offline Lord Kain

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #279 on: November 28, 2004, 01:09:14 AM »
why must we have the option to have sex with every new NPC.
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Offline fallen demon

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #280 on: November 28, 2004, 03:29:10 PM »
Being evil she has some similarities with Viconia which you're able to romance and redeem. Valen was tempted by evil and vampirism which does not mean she is evil by nature. Viconia was born evil and is evil by nature and simply rebelled against it. If you were man enough and balled up you could impress Valen. You can be a powerful good guy and tempt her to the path of good much like evil can tempt. What's wrong with that? You can be good and become rich, famous, and powerful.
Thats an argument for redemption, redemption and romance can be very mutually exlusive thing.
Quote
Adding romance adds to the depth of character giving a basis of that side of uncontrollable emotion.

Little known fact that a character in a story can have depth without romancing the protaganist.
Quote
If she cannot control her desire for power, if she desires a man, she would be easily tempted by one. These evil people easily fall to addictions and you can be addicted to phallic objects... yea, that's it.
If someone explains what this means i will happily point out a hole in its logic.
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Offline FluffigtDjur

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #281 on: February 23, 2005, 12:02:48 PM »
Uh, I'm a little confused here... vampires are notoriously erotic. Why shouldn't she be able to have a romance? Not trying to seduce the PC and feast on his (or her, vampires are notoriously bisexual too as you probably know) divine blood goes against the very essence of a vampirism. I should say the blood of a god would be enough temptation to at least attempt a romance.

If the pc is foolish enough to tag along well, that's the role players choice... right?

Me? As an neutral or chaotic evil pc I would damn well join her in undeath, if I could find a way to control it. Power and pleasure is ALWAYS interesting to an evil character, no matter the risk... and Valen could represent both.

Offline Gibberer

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #282 on: April 22, 2005, 07:31:52 AM »
A fine point by FluffigtDjur, that Valen might, for her own reasons, be tempted to seek a romantic interest with the PC. 

It could start out sincerely(if Charisma is high enough) or with an ulterior motive(from Bhaal blood to leading the PC on), and slowly develop.  If Valen is so interested in power, then the rising force of the PC should eventually pique her interest, and, against her will, she begins to develop genuine feelings for the PC.  The climactic moment would be in Spellhold where Bodhi betrays Valen, and later where Bodhi actually flees the Slayer incarnation, plus Dace Sontane.  At that point, her loyalty to Valen should certainly be shattered, and even an evil and unredeemable Valen should start trying to be on the winning side.

Alternatively we could have some fun(insane laughter).

The PC is attracted to Valen(the fictional record of vampires as seductive creatures is clear) and eventually reaches out and shows some interest in her.  At this point some random number generator goes into effect. 

In terms of percentile, assume that if the dice come up with 000, Valen is genuinely moved and attracted to the PC and becomes his lover and loyalist.   :)

On 001 through 009 matters proceed normally.

On all others(010 through 999) the party guard has been dropped and things get...interesting.  ;D

In the final showdown with Bodhi, assume a 50% chance that Valen has been 'snacking around' and any given party member's free will has been weakened to the point of automatically being charmed by Bodhi!  :o

In addition, assume that, to eliminate the competition, Valen AUTOMATICALLY sank her teeth into Jaheira and/or Viconia, if either are with the party.  Heck, have her disappear from the party for several hours one night.  While away she pays a visit to Aerie as well.  Later Bodhi's minions grab Aerie for the showdown.  8)

If our PC can win against these odds, great!  He deserves applause and the chance to clean up this mess.

If not, we can close with some movie where Bodhi gets her final revenge by sending the vampires Aerie, Viconia, and Jaheira to feast on him.

Hmm, can this idea get even more perverse?  Sure!!!

Visaudiokin

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #283 on: July 13, 2005, 04:19:27 PM »
Wait, since when do vampires, male or female, not have sex drives?  Or even romantic feelings?  If Valen's a murderer... and the PC is a murderer... then why can't they be murderers in love?  Being evil doesn't mean being devoid of hormones.  And it doesn't mean being devoid of a sense of devotion to another person.  Valen had quite a bit of devotion to Bodhi, now didn't she?  She doesn't have to think of the PC as her master to have a romance with him, but the sense of devotion would transfer pretty logically.  Why can't a couple kids who get off on spilling innocent blood get off on each other, too???

And about the wealth of romanceable NPC mods.  Why should they NOT all be romanceable?  It's not as though you can romance them all at once.  RPGs are about creating a persona and forging a destiny.  When I roll a character, I can roll any stinking character I want, with any personality I want.  The only thing that's decided for me about who my character is is that he's got divine blood.  So since my PC can be anybody, and there's some NPC that can't fall in love with any PC I make, then by definition that NPC is incapable of falling in love with ANYBODY.  How many people do you know who wouldn't be able to fall in love with anybody, under any circumstances?  Seems to me that would be a pretty unlikely character.

Garcian

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #284 on: July 18, 2005, 01:34:01 AM »
I recently came across the mod for Valen to join the PC's party.  Then I came here and found out that a discussion about her being a romance option has been going on for years, apparently.  So... is she included as a romance option in the mod, or not?  Because if not, I'd say it's time to put the topic to bed.  If so, well then at least I can understand why the question is still up in the air.

Offline Hide and Seek

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #285 on: July 22, 2005, 06:50:49 PM »
A Valen romance would indeed be an interesting mod to play, even if I guess it would take some really evil brutal guy to make her look in your direction. Or a redemption, perhaps? Either way, it would be interesting to steal the unbeating heart from one of Bodhi's minions. How would the other npc:s react towards this?  :o
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samudra

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #286 on: November 05, 2005, 09:51:03 AM »
We might agree on three different endings depending on the interactions of the protagonist. The first one would be that Valen stays a vampire and is evil forever. The second one would be a romance + redemption. And for the supporters of tragic love stories: romance without redemption.
I think a romance with a vampire can be quite interesting and it puts their love to the test.

hamstermancer

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #287 on: November 26, 2005, 12:23:53 PM »
A romance would be cool as this will take her out of her designation as "t3h rei" of the party (bleeding quiet type, I know). But not like that fluffy Aerie romance. And not like that whole Viconia redemption thingy too. LV 25 dual-wielding Neutral Evil kensais would prefer their cute bloodthirsty vampire companions as they are... y'know... them level drains are pretty handy when fighting off pesky bureaucratic wizards.

I prefer you just get the opportunity to talk about your pre-party lives, or plans for the future, or why vampires like to go "hiss" a lot. Then probably give her a hug when she goes like "wah, the mistress is liek t3h d34d". Alright, not a hug, probably some words of encouragement or something along the lines of "aw come on, we're a pretty swell team... you and I, and Korgs and Edwina..."

Then probably after slaying the upteenth town priest, you can make a comment like "oi dear, you really look cute biting that waukeenar priestess like that *wink*"... much to her... uhm... discomfort  ;D

Ooooh, and something in the phrase "keeping her on a very tight leash" really strikes me as rather sexy.  ;)

Kir

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #288 on: December 01, 2005, 01:17:51 AM »
Quote
Wait, since when do vampires, male or female, not have sex drives?
Um... since they die? Seriously, there's not so much erotic in a piece of dead flesh that only regular infusions of fresh blood can prevent from quick and imminent decay. The infamous "sex appeal" of vampires is nothing more than way to hypnotically lure their victims into submission. Since sexual instinct is one of the strongest and hard to resist in a *living* human being, no wonder that it makes for a convenient tool. It's not like vampires really *feel* erotically themselves.

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But being dead usually does.

Offline Grim Squeaker

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #289 on: December 01, 2005, 02:33:33 AM »
Quote
Wait, since when do vampires, male or female, not have sex drives?
Um... since they die? Seriously, there's not so much erotic in a piece of dead flesh that only regular infusions of fresh blood can prevent from quick and imminent decay. The infamous "sex appeal" of vampires is nothing more than way to hypnotically lure their victims into submission. Since sexual instinct is one of the strongest and hard to resist in a *living* human being, no wonder that it makes for a convenient tool. It's not like vampires really *feel* erotically themselves.

Quote
Being evil doesn't mean being devoid of hormones.
But being dead usually does.

(Not that I'm supporting a Valen Romance but...) Being dead also prevents you walking around and talking as well.
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Offline Hide and Seek

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #290 on: December 01, 2005, 12:41:35 PM »
But, if I understand this correctly, Vampires shouldn't be called true Undead, more on the brink of it. I heard they're somewhere between life and death, but still not sure, since there are countless of tales.

Anyone watching any vampire movies with a bit of knowledge on the way? I'd love to find out the truth, are Vampires really dead or not?
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Drizzt: Yes, yes, you have my attention.
Lilarcor: And this one's for Grandma, who said I would never amount to anything more than a butterknife!

Offline irenicus

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #291 on: December 01, 2005, 01:17:53 PM »
But, if I understand this correctly, Vampires shouldn't be called true Undead, more on the brink of it. I heard they're somewhere between life and death, but still not sure, since there are countless of tales.

Anyone watching any vampire movies with a bit of knowledge on the way? I'd love to find out the truth, are Vampires really dead or not?

whell i think vampires must be somewhat in a divine line since as they are doing unnatrual things, they have cheated death to become a "maiden of the night" as it where, or man of the night, but whatever, they turn into bats but can only be killed by stakes, and holy water

what I think vampires are are spirits, wraiths un avenged spirits, as it where, and by using a stake (wood from mother nature OUR world) and holy water (water from our holy virgin mother, sorry if you dont support this this is afterall, just an opinion) is banishing it from our world, the reasons guns wouldnt work as there fake, there not so special as and not true mother-nature within. i belive using things of mother nature (i dont belive in garlic helps) will say basically "sod of we dont want you here" and in a way say they cannot avenge themselves or something, sunlight i belive is just because if they want revenge they are dark of heart, so they must remain in the dark, and they are spirits, you cant see them well in the light
so my conclusion is there unavenged spirits, who are so angry with want for revenge and o make everyone suffer as them they become "vampires'

ok thats just an opinion you may alllook at me oddly now

Offline Borsook

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #292 on: December 01, 2005, 01:48:32 PM »
But, if I understand this correctly, Vampires shouldn't be called true Undead, more on the brink of it. I heard they're somewhere between life and death, but still not sure, since there are countless of tales.

Anyone watching any vampire movies with a bit of knowledge on the way? I'd love to find out the truth, are Vampires really dead or not?
I'm not talking here from D&D perspective - but yes they're dead. They have to lose their life in order to gain the "unlife". They die, got buried and then rise from the tomb. And so they do every night, during the day they're not "asleep", they're dead to all apperances (that's why you can nail/burn them then and they won't notice)
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Offline Meddle.

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #293 on: December 01, 2005, 08:32:33 PM »
Quote
Anyone watching any vampire movies with a bit of knowledge on the way? I'd love to find out the truth, are Vampires really dead or not

about d&d vampires i may know little
but there's a book called "Van Richten’s Guide to the Vampires" published by tsr back in 1991. I treat it as a book, not a manual. its a nice book.
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Offline irenicus

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #294 on: December 02, 2005, 05:57:25 PM »
Quote
Anyone watching any vampire movies with a bit of knowledge on the way? I'd love to find out the truth, are Vampires really dead or not

about d&d vampires i may know little
but there's a book called "Van Richten’s Guide to the Vampires" published by tsr back in 1991. I treat it as a book, not a manual. its a nice book.


-chews lip thinking- hmmm ill see if lord louis has one

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Offline Prine

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #295 on: January 01, 2006, 11:39:24 AM »
There's really way too many different myths about vampires to say with certainty that x should apply and y should not, etc.

As far as AD&D vampires go, the only supplement I've read that covered them in any real detail was the Van Richten's Guide.  It's designed for the Ravenloft campaign setting, so whether the information is applicable to vampires outside of Ravenloft could be debated, but Van Richten seems to think that there's little practicable difference in mentality and physiology between a vampire and a human.  Read the bride and groom section under "Relations Between Vampires" for an exerpt on vampires and hormones which somehow doesn't sit very well with me.  But yes, vampires are certainly undead, they are corpses animated and preserved by negative energy.

Maybe a romance that terminates with Valen vampirising the PC, thus killing him and ending the game.  Haha.  Ooh, maybe wake up and all the party members except Valen are perma-dead, and if you don't want to let her kill you you have to fight her to the death.  Nice little downward spiral of completely hosing your game.  That'll teach you to screw with vampires.   ;D
« Last Edit: January 01, 2006, 11:46:39 AM by Prine »

Mith the Godling

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #296 on: February 24, 2007, 09:46:36 PM »



Okay, alot of people are saying how they want a romance for Valen because, well a cool character like her should have one right? Well, no. You see, the reason is that she is a cold blooded killer. And not just your insane, emotionally unbalanced run of the mill killer. She's in fact, closer to a force of nature in herself. That's really what her life is dedicated to, a concept of hunting and killing. She follows her instinct.

However, I will agree that there is something missing for the mod, though it isn't a romance per say, but rather more of a banter issue. The fact of the matter is that she's a vampire and the main character his basicly a half-god. To top it all off, its the son (daughter) of the Lord of Murder. The very nature that Valen followes. And yet, I don't really see any focus on that. She should be attracted to that blood and we should be seeing her trying to get a few nibbles here and there from both the main character and Imoen (as well as other Bhaalspawn. She should target them first after giving some dialogue. To her, that blood is better than sex. It is her sex in a way. Now, people are going to want a romance with a large focus on this. But the thing is that she wouldn't be interested in romance or love. She just wants the blood. A nibble. The problem isn't really with the character here, but the fact that a possibility that in realistic scenario would occur isn't at all being adressed. A bhaalspawn would be attracted to her for her looks and the fact that she's in a way, much like him as far as having strong instincts. And she would of course in turn be trying to get some of that blood.

Now, the thing is that I think a more flirt based addition should be added. She might cuddle up to the character (or Imoen), even make out with them, but only long enough to get the blood she wants. After she gets that, she's done. But beyond flirting, the realtionship can't go anywhere because one night with he would end up with you dead. Basicly, add in a small flirt addition to it, but it can only go up to a point where it has to stop because its a very unhealthy habit for both of the two sides. Valen is becoming addicted and the Bhaalspawn is falling for her. Then it should perhaps focus more on a buddy kind of thing.

And really, its the whole common ground that they share which must have more light shed upon it, much more so than flirting or romance. Valon should envy the Bhaalspawn, almost to the point of worship. She should be more inclined to listen to the player or the Imoen just because of that fact alone. She should be talking to them about their taint. That is what I think is really missing from her. If you can get that down, and just that, I'd think that it would serve better than any romance. A romance should be adressed with the character, but ultimatly, it wouldn't work out. That's just facts based on how she acts. She only lusts for blood and she really doesn't care about anything else for the most part.

As for Redemption...no. Just no. She isn't Drizzt. Edwin and Korgan are evil and no one wants to turn them, mainly because they're much better at being evil than anything else. Edwin would really be as dull as paste because he's based of an egotistical jerk. Same with Valen. Players would finally turn her to the light and five minutes later they would be wondering why the hell did they do it in the first place. Redemption is a realistic possbility, but its very unlikely and really shouldn't even be taken into consideration. Because the only way for a vampire to redeem itself is to go to the closest temple of Illmater and commit suicide.

And that, is my two cents.


Offline wingedwolf

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #297 on: April 02, 2007, 11:26:33 AM »
In recent literature, Vampires are romantic.  They're sexy.  I think you could have a relationship with her, but I don't think it would be a normal romance. 
She now plays as the eternal servant, and all she wants in return is for you to sic her on prey.  I mean look at the commands that are given to her.  A twisted semi-romance could work if it was written well.  You don't write well when you don't know what you are talking about.  Man, do your thing.  Do what you feel is right!

Offline Kulyok

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #298 on: April 02, 2007, 11:32:48 AM »
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Man, do your thing.  Do what you feel is right!

Heh, that's ready signature material.

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Chaos

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Re: Valen romance
« Reply #299 on: January 09, 2008, 12:42:25 AM »
Okay, I recently started playing BG2 again, and I felt determined to use some mods, and came across the Valen mod. I've used it before, and I liked Valen well enough, so now I'm gonna offer my own opinion.

I think that 'Mith the Godling' has some valid points. But in my own opinion, I also think that a Valen romance SHOULD be included. And here are my reasons (written from my views of ALWAYS playing a good-aligned character. Only once have I ever played an evil character):

1: One of the most prominent arguments against a Valen romance is that, to have Valen, everyone assumes you have to be evil. This is NOT the case. I was actually playing a good party that had Valen in it. Here's how I logic that out: The Shadow Thieves are a notorious criminal organization, and they haven't offered much basis for trust, while circumstances might render your character ignorant of the situation (a lot of the time I played the game, I didn't even witness a fight between the guilds).

2: A vampire romance would certainly be interesting, and if there are so many who don't want it, it could be included as a seperate add-on for the standard mod.

3: Sometimes, you just can't control who you end up falling for. Alternatively, it could start off with something like Valen attempting to seduce the PC to gain small 'samples' of his/her divine blood, but with the PC (having realized his/her mistake in siding with Bodhi) showing remorse or something, and talking to Valen about this. Remember what happens when someone is turned into a vampire. Who's to say that Valen didn't used to be a good person before becoming a vampire? Unlike with liches, vampirism CAN be forced onto an unwilling victim. The redemption thing could be a reflection of her thinking on a good PCs words, and remembering things before. I wouldn't make her 'good' aligned, but 'neutral' (like Viconia), at least partially reflecting on a conflicted nature: wanting to be good, but having near-uncontrollable instincts and urges towards evil acts.

Anyways, these are just some ideas of mine. And for the record: YES I AM a certifiable lunatic. And I'm probably gonna get some people cussing me out or something over my crazy (and perhaps somewhat stupid) idea, but I just felt the need to offer my opinion.

Also, regarding the discussion of good/evil and the concept that a single 'evil' act makes you an evil person: Some people can't control themselves when they lose their temper (look at Minsc. In his rage, he can actually start attacking other party members!). Again, just offering my own opinion.

 

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