Tactics Mod

[weimer]

It's a non-Sola part of the game in the sense it happens whether he's in the party or not.

If Sola is not in the party, he won't convince Drizzt to help you. :-)

Despite desire, I don't really have enough free time to make all of the controversial parts (including this one) optional. However, if you are interested in trying the mod without that, open the file solarom\solaint.d with notepad and change the lines around #255  which initially look like this:

Code: [Select]

// Drizzt
INTERJECT c6drizz1 40 Sola_IJ26
  == "SOLA"         IF ~InParty("Sola")~ THEN @260
  == "c6drizz1"     IF ~InParty("Sola")~ THEN @261
  == "SOLA"         @262
  == "c6drizz1"     @263
  == "SOLA"         @264
  == "c6drizz1"     @265
  == "SOLA"         @266
  == "c6drizz1"     @267
  == "SOLA"         @268
  == "c6drizz1"     @269 = @270 = @271
  == "SOLA"         @272
  == "c6drizz1"     @273
  == "SOLA"         @274
  == "c6drizz1"     @275
  == "SOLA"         @276
  == "c6drizz1"     @277
  == "SOLA"         @278
END c6drizz1 38
So that they instead look like this:

Code: [Select]

// Drizzt
/* INTERJECT c6drizz1 40 Sola_IJ26
  == "SOLA"         IF ~InParty("Sola")~ THEN @260
  == "c6drizz1"     IF ~InParty("Sola")~ THEN @261
  == "SOLA"         @262
  == "c6drizz1"     @263
  == "SOLA"         @264
  == "c6drizz1"     @265
  == "SOLA"         @266
  == "c6drizz1"     @267
  == "SOLA"         @268
  == "c6drizz1"     @269 = @270 = @271
  == "SOLA"         @272
  == "c6drizz1"     @273
  == "SOLA"         @274
  == "c6drizz1"     @275
  == "SOLA"         @276
  == "c6drizz1"     @277
  == "SOLA"         @278
END c6drizz1 38 */
The /* at the beginning and the */ at the end mean "this is a comment". If you make these changes and re-install Sola, he will not say anything to Drizzt. I'm sorry that Sola's "assertiveness" rubs you the wrong way -- I hate to lose loyal players. As you have seen from some comments here, some others are fine with it.

Let me know if there are other major gripes you have with my mods -- it's possible that I'm doing a bunch of really stupid things and no one else has bothered to point them out.                    

[Aubrey]

It's a non-Sola part of the game in the sense it happens whether he's in the party or not.

This very part of Sola mod is one of those I feel strongly it was a perfect one. I have been and still I am a defender of Weimer's decision to plan it that way.  

When Solaufein meets Drizzt there is nothing more natural than Solaufein's little talking with Drizzt. Don't forget they are both Drows, the one living with the surfacers many a year now, while the other, Solaufein, is just at the begining of it. In my opinion, their little talk says a lot about Solaufein's "search in the darkness" while he's trying to establish a new life among the surfacers.  Just from this aspect and only, Solaufein's initiative is something that adds to the story, his personal story.  

I should say that when we were leaving Underdark, I was thinking that Solaufein ought to be the one who would talk to Drizzt. Thankfully, he did.



                   

[L_Jonté]

I have to agree.  I think it would have been awkward and strange for Drizzt and Solaufein ignore each other, as if seeing another Drow aboveground were an every day thing.  And the exchange between the two is the perfect chance to give a little more insight into Sola as a character.                    

[Kish]

Otoh, I find it quite implausible that Drizzt (who, by this point in his timeline, has fought several thousand drow assassins) is so unquestioningly trusting of a strange drow.                    

[jcompton]

But remember, the Solaufein Operating Manual says that "Solaufein brings out the best in everyone."
                   

[weimer]

But remember, the Solaufein Operating Manual says that "Solaufein brings out the best in everyone."

                   I can tell when I'm being picked on, but I'm not quite sure what this one is about. Is this a subtle jab that everyone seems smarter when Bantering with Sola?

Anyway, quite a few people dislike him in his interjections. Prejudice doesn't exactly abound, but I tried to keep it present.
                   

[jcompton]

I had used that argument earlier about the Minsc banter, yeah. I wouldn't say everyone. I just wanted to re-use my own material. And one could also apply it to, say, the Shade Lord.                    

[Kiki]

GB could well go into the D files, but most users are not up to that.

Bah. I'm no programmer, but it seems like a fairly straightforward matter of replacing your dialogue with text of the user's choice, as long as the branch structure of the dialogues remain the same. But I haven't actually tried it, so maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, the "make Kiki happy plan" is tempting ... if only because you've got the cutest avatar here (who could say no to a Miyazaki heroine? ... well, excluding the one from Umi Ga Kikoeru).

There you go. Problem solved. From now on, you may simply consult me whenever you get conflicting input, and I'll tell you what makes me happiest.

I wonder if there will be a sudden flood of cute avatars?

Remind me again -- what was your platform? Have Weimer forget about user choice and concentrate on writing more dialogue?

Absolutely. If I am re-elected as Chief Standard of Happiness, I promise to exert influence on Weimer to increase the content of the Solaufein mod.

When Solaufein meets Drizzt there is nothing more natural than Solaufein's little talking with Drizzt.

Agreed--there's nothing more natural for them to *talk* to each other, but I might prefer that Sola simply counsel the PC to work with Drizzt, as Jaheira does. I think it's A-OK when NPCs leave the party to attend to their own business, or if your decisions vex them, but I would prefer that they don't usurp your decision making authority. (And I seem to recall a certain mod author refusing to make decisions for players ...)

I don't see any compelling reason for Sola to leave all of the decisions to the PC -- especially since Sola is very smart (high INT) and very self-assured (high CHR).

Imoen has both high INT and high CHA, and the only time she makes a decision without your say-so is when she hucks a magic missile at Irenicus when you're fresh out of the dungeon (which is indeed vital to the narrative flow).                    

[Kismet]

I have to admit that the Drizzt/Solaufein scene irked me a bit too.  Don't get me wrong, I'm all for party members giving me their opinion on everything I do and say and the people we meet.  But when it deals with something that's not specifically his/her quest, they should be just that--opinions and not decisions.  What made this scenario especially irksome was that Solaufein did this when he had been a party member for all of 30 seconds.   Not that I wouldn't have been equally irked if say Jahiera, who's been with me since day one, did this but at least I could have rationalized it: a) Well ok, Jaheira's been with me a long time and knows how I do things, plus she's an iterfering busybody anyhow; B) Solaufein has been with us 30 seconds and already he's usurping my authority.  What gives?!?

Kismet                    

[Littiz]

Anyway, the "make Kiki happy plan" is tempting ... if only because you've got the cutest avatar here (who could say no to a Miyazaki heroine? ... well, excluding the one from Umi Ga Kikoeru).

I surely cannot... (who catches mine? )
And if you used a Nausicaa's avatar, I'd be actually worshipping you :rolleyes:
:unsure:
ehm...
actually not, no one should DARE using such an avatar  :angry:                    

[Aubrey]

To me, Solaufein's initiative is equal to his eagerness to discover things for himself.  Drizzt has some reputation in the world of the surfacers, and Solaufein knows it. Apart from that sort of admiration, he also feels the intimacy of the race.

And since we have talked it over, now, I want to ask why Solaufein's decision to ask Drizzt's assistance in  the "Bodhi Show" has annoyed so many people!  Is it because his action seems as if he is claiming the leadership of the group? or because no other NPC has ever done that before? or, because PC character is the god, and we should always consult the god before stepping forward?

Personally, I don't believe in any god, I didn't mind Solaufein's action in the least, and actually I enjoyed his dialogue with the Drizzt, and most of all the fact that it was him who introduced me to Drizzt, and not vice versa. It seemed more fair and realistic, and even more democratic.
 
There is only a single case in which I would had felt furious with Solaufein: if I was planning to fight Drizzt and his group, and have Drizzt's head for dinner. Well, I wasn't.

                   

[weimer]

I am also curious about this answer. In my experience when working with groups you almost never get total obedience unless it has all been discussed beforehand and is a strict requirement (e.g., you are part of a SWAT team). Sola and the PC never explicitly have that kind of discussion (actually, maybe I should go back and disable all of Sola's interjections if you picked the "call me Lord" option at the beginning, but that's about it) and I don't recall him agreeing to be a slave to the PC.

I can certaily see players who have gotten used to unquestioned authority over the bioware NPCs (who speak too infrequently to be realistic) being surprised at Solaufein. But I see his behavior, rather than that of, say, Cernd, as what would be the norm among a group of heros.                    

[weimer]

Remind me again -- what was your platform? Have Weimer forget about user choice and concentrate on writing more dialogue?

Absolutely. If I am re-elected as Chief Standard of Happiness, I promise to exert influence on Weimer to increase the content of the Solaufein mod.

OK, as CSoH-in-training, what do you suggest I add to the Sola mod specifically? What would you (or anyone else) like to see him talking about?                    



[!--EDIT|weimer|Oct 29 2002, 05:20 PM--]

[L_Jonté]

What would you (or anyone else) like to see him talking about?

Speaking as anyone else...  

1. The book/scroll that we discussed earlier.  I'd really like to see that.  I like the idea of the PC (for once) being able to take the initiative in a romance.

2. Is it possible to randomize the banters rather than having them roll out in alphbetical order?

3. Sola belonged to a high-ranking, rival house.  He was well thought of there.  We know that he doens't like to talk about his time with Phaere so much, but what about other relationships?  Does our underdark Heathcliff have any family?                    



[!--EDIT|L_Jonté|Oct 30 2002, 01:53 AM--]

[Kiki]

1. The book/scroll that we discussed earlier. I'd really like to see that. I like the idea of the PC (for once) being able to take the initiative in a romance.

Is this some sort of self-help book? "Broody-Pants Drow and the Women Who Love Them Too Much"?

2. Is it possible to randomize the banters rather than having them roll out in alphbetical order?

I like this idea, too.
                   



[!--EDIT|Kiki|Oct 30 2002, 02:09 AM--]

[Kiki]

OK, as CSoH-in-training, what do you suggest I add to the Sola mod specifically? What would you (or anyone else) like to see him talking about?

OK, I've been out of town for three weeks and was busy before I left, so I haven't touched the game in almost two months, let alone any new versions of Sola. Sorry if my requests are out of date; I know some of this was on your to-do list.

I would like to see a dialogue with the Master Wraith, preferably with Phaere. I'd also like to see more dialogue added after black ravens (though I'd prefer that Sola's conversations not give me flashbacks to taking the LSAT) so that people who finish the romance in SoA, as I did, still get some interaction with Solaufein in ToB. I'd like Sola to say something to the PC in the final showdown, especially something that justifies the ascension-to-godhood epilogues. More banter with other NPCs is always welcome.

Thanks for asking ... now get to work. (I can't believe you're in grad school and can find time to do all this.)                    



[!--EDIT|Kiki|Oct 30 2002, 03:14 AM--]

[Kiki]

To recycle one of my previous comments (and to use up another of these annoying duplicate posts), another dialogue idea might be to do some follow-up conversation on being vampirized by Bodhi, and to explore his ambition and dark side. Maybe also have some dialogue between Solaufein and Bodhi when you get to Throne of Bhaal, and have her try to convince him to join her again.                    



[!--EDIT|Kiki|Oct 30 2002, 02:31 AM--]

[L_Jonté]

Is this some sort of self-help book? "Broody-Pants Drow and the Women Who Love Them Too Much"?

OoooOOOOooo!  Now that is an interesting idea... but no.  

I suggested that the PC be able to buy (and then give) Sola a book of poetry.  I was specifically thinking of Shakespeare's sonnet #29.  
See the sonnet in question here.

(I think I can actually hear Jason C. rolling his eyes from here.)

I'd also like to see more dialogue added after black ravens (though I'd prefer that Sola's conversations not give me flashbacks to taking the LSAT) so that people who finish the romance in SoA, as I did, still get some interaction with Solaufein in ToB.

Yes, yes, much and many!  Conversations about life and everyday nonsense would be lovely.  Does Sola think of matrimony, or just a lifetime of shacking-up?  Do the Drow even marry?  :blink:

I'd like Sola to say something to the PC in the final showdown, especially something that justifies the ascension-to-godhood epilogues.

Hmmm... I don't know about that.  But maybe a glimpse into his internal struggle perhaps?  Can he meet the PC's eyes?  Are his own eyes pleading, resolute or unreadable?  Is his expression stoic, or his body language tense?  Hmm... ponder, ponder...                    

[Kiki]

I suggested that the PC be able to buy (and then give) Sola a book of poetry.  I was specifically thinking of Shakespeare's sonnet #29.

I like that idea, and yes, that's a nice sonnet. In fact, it was one that my first boyfriend sent to me ... ah, first love. Too bad he turned out to be a jerk in other ways, but he did have good taste in poetry.

I'd like Sola to say something to the PC in the final showdown, especially something that justifies the ascension-to-godhood epilogues.

Hmmm... I don't know about that.

What I mean here is that in the epilogues, Solaufein says, "Why did I let CHARNAME go?" That line doesn't make sense because he doesn't say anything to try to sway you either way. There aren't even any Torment-like indications of Solaufein-trying-to-be-stoic. The least he could do would be to try to score some equipment. "Um, since you're going to be a goddess, I guess you probably won't be needing that Robe of Vecna anymore."

                   

[jcompton]

I like the idea of the PC (for once) being able to take the initiative in a romance.

For once?

FOR ONCE?

Growl snarl flirting howl stomp TOB "confessional" lovetalk slam blam some people didn't bother playing long enough.

So don't give me "for once," missy.                    



[!--EDIT|jcompton|Oct 29 2002, 09:17 PM--]

[L_Jonté]

Ack!  I surrender allready!  

Jason, I have begun another game and I have managed a funtional install of Kelsey and I am giving him a fair try... but slowly.  

When I said "for once" I was referring to the BioWare romance options, not other mods.   Ya big goober!  :rolleyes:                    

[jcompton]

When I said "for once" I was referring to the BioWare romance options, not other mods.   Ya big goober!  :rolleyes:

                   I'm calm now, no really.

I honestly don't understand why you would make such a distinction.                    

[L_Jonté]

I honestly don't understand why you would make such a distinction.

Because it's been a very long day and I am short on both sleep and caffine.   :wacko:                    



[!--EDIT|L_Jonté|Oct 30 2002, 03:35 AM--]

[Kiki]

I suggested that the PC be able to buy (and then give) Sola a book of poetry. ... I like the idea of the PC (for once) being able to take the initiative in a romance.

                   I think what you meant, Lisa, is not that you want to initiate flirting but that you want to be able to give your romantic interest a token of your esteem. You *can* buy a necklace for Jaheira. And of course, for the practical Bhaalspawn who wants to get a unique present for that special someone, there are some nice gift ideas at Cespenar's Olde Gift Shoppe.                    

[Aubrey]

I like the idea of the PC (for once) being able to take the initiative in a romance.

For once?

FOR ONCE?

Growl snarl flirting howl stomp TOB "confessional" lovetalk slam blam some people didn't bother playing long enough.

So don't give me "for once," missy.

Heheh! Some people go looking for troubles. :lol:                    



[!--EDIT|Aubrey|Oct 30 2002, 11:27 AM--]