Author Topic: Valen gets waaay too strong. (Read 11701 times)

Michel · « **on:** September 11, 2002, 10:10:11 AM »

Heya,

I finally gotten around to start playing with Valen in my party. I went straight from the Irenicus Dungeon to do some odd thieves work and didnt even started working for a stronghold and managed to get the 15000 gold required for Bodhi. All things said and done i gave the money to Bodhi and invited Valen in my party. I went straight on with Bodhi jobs and within 2 days i was at Brynlaw. I did all the Brynnlaw quests went into Spellhold and did all the quests there. I or I should say Valen whooped Bodhi ass in like 2/3 rounds..... I did all the Spellhold dungeon quests and went on to fight Irenicus....
Then it struck me..I looked at the character information for the kills by party members and noticed that Valen has the HIGHEST kill count. She now uses her claws as +3 and drains enemies with 3 levels per hit

Kelsey, Minsc, Jan and Imoen and my Assassin/Mage just stand there and watch Valen kills one after another. This isnt really fun anymore....I am as a Bhaalspawn out of a job. Valen does nearly ALL the killing for me. Even Irenicus couldnt withstand the onslaught that went by the name of Valen. The only spell i used was "Breach" to get rid of his protection of magical weapons/Stoneskin. She whooped his ass soo fast that he was "Near Death" in like 15 seconds REAL TIME

. She's only fighter level 12 and thief level 15....I cant help but think that she will be SOO INCREDIBLY strong when she comes with me into ToB that I dont even need anymore party members to *cough*help*cough* me becoming a god.

Dont get me wrong by this post I am enjoying every step of the mod. The dialogues are great especially the ones she has with Lonk The Sane in SpellHold and with Saemon Havarian.

I just entered the Suhagin City...must play now.

Oh i posted this also at the BIS boards for some other reponds

Edit:
Linky here

[!--EDIT|Michel|Sep 11 2002, 07:13 PM--]

Yoho · « **Reply #1 on:** September 11, 2002, 11:57:54 AM »

Well, I agree with you. It's a bit strange [_[. I knew Valen was strong before downloading her but it's way too much.

Disavantages are not strong enough : what if she'd randomly attack some innocents for example ? She could also become an ennemy if your reputation is too high... Level drain per hit should not be more than 1 or 2 (that's enough because a lot of ennemies are strong but do not have a lot of levels : Sarevok in SoA's hell, etc...). I think level draining is considered as a powerful spell in BG2 : you can only find blackrazor at the end of SoA.

I'm in ToB, by now and I must admit I leaved Valen because she's too powerful. Solaufein is a bit more balanced : took him instead of her.

Userunfriendly · « **Reply #2 on:** September 11, 2002, 02:05:47 PM »

level draining is indeed considered by bioware to be too cheesy...you only get gram at near end of tob...you see, its really rather simple...my infamous cast g deathblow and fire frag grenade, area effect deathblow kills a entire room of improved mind flayers in one single shot, most boiware created cre files for monsters have about level 4-8, just their stats makes them nasty...g deathblow, cloudkill and death spell, all really popular, takes advantage of that, a lot of really nasty fodder are low level but uses high stats to look nasty but are very vulnerable to spells that bypass magic resistance, like level drain, and attacks at point of most vulnerability, level number...

the most powerful level draining item in the game is dagger life stealer, which is 4 level drain,

if you think valen is bad, try sk ing her to assassin fighter, and go past 4 million xp and she becomes a matriarch vampire...

Gospel · « **Reply #3 on:** September 11, 2002, 02:14:29 PM »

They thought it was too cheesy? That didn't stop them from putting that darn room in Windspear Hills :'(

*kicks Bioware* I hate the cheating the computer gets. :(

El Diablo · « **Reply #4 on:** September 13, 2002, 02:02:12 PM »

maybe the enemy should be able to save to prevent the level drain and make her movement speed when not sunburned normal not that that truly makes her powerfull but i just find it frustrating [_[

Michel · « **Reply #5 on:** September 13, 2002, 07:41:09 PM »

Valen now drains.................. 5 levels per hit!

I can give the claw to everyone. Heck i had Kelsey fighting with the claws.

She now has 1 WW and 3 GWW and she isnt in the real high levels yet.

I knew he was powerfull but this is WAAAAY to powerfull. I think i will get more satisfaction with using CTRL-Y on my enemies instead of letting them level draind to death by Valen...Oh yeah, Adematy golem....3 hits...dead golem.

I think it is time to drop Valen from my party. This is no more fun.

Sorry Wes.

raven · « **Reply #6 on:** September 14, 2002, 07:27:07 AM »

Well, she's quite powerful, but not really THAT over-powerful compared to my Kensai/Thief. Use any Item negates all the disadventage of Kensai, Improved Haste is as good as GWW but last longer, Kai + Assassination = 30 damage for 6 seconds, 150 damage per hit for 4 seconds, 70-150 for another 2 seconds. It's already unstoppable with or without Valen.

KaPe · « **Reply #7 on:** September 14, 2002, 08:23:24 AM »

Sure, but high-end opponents have weap. res. and prot. mag. weap... i.e. Yaga-shura takes long to kill with weapons, but level draining him takes couple of second... Is it actually possible to fight Eclipse party with Valen? If so, then their huge reg. is entirelly cancelled...

Michel · « **Reply #8 on:** September 15, 2002, 08:02:56 PM »

Quote

Sure, but high-end opponents have weap. res. and prot. mag. weap... i.e. Yaga-shura takes long to kill with weapons, but level draining him takes couple of second... Is it actually possible to fight Eclipse party with Valen? If so, then their huge reg. is entirelly cancelled...

I did let Valen fight the Eclipse party, she whooped that party so bad that they didnt knew what hit them.

Yaga-Shura was dead in 5 hits... Oh it was the improved Yaga-Shura too. He didnt stood a chance. GWW + 5 level drains per hit is to much to handle for a giant. I wonder how she will do against the WeiDu Ascension battle.....

reiella · « **Reply #9 on:** September 15, 2002, 11:04:46 PM »

Well the claws we made droppable so that they didn't have a tendency to completely disappear, although, at the least should be changed so they aren't equipable by any of the playable races (valen should bypass that as her race tag is vampire). That would simply limit it to UAI rogues.

Piker · « **Reply #10 on:** September 20, 2002, 10:06:23 PM »

I used Valen at the Ascension Throne, and she is still a beast. I set difficulty to Insane to see what it was like with her there. While she is still very powerful she just doesnt have the HPs of Sarevok or one of the fighters which means basically that if you blink while she is fighting Abazigal or Yaga-Shura, she is toast, she seems to die quicker than she can mist-form (unless the later versions of Valen don't mist anymore). That and her rabid script made me ditch her finally because she just didnt survive very long if anything went pearshaped, and of course you can't rez her.

I would agree, though, that the max claws are pretty sick. I found the same thing with Yaga-Shura - if you set Valen on him and he doesn't kill her instantly (which he did a couple times) he drops pretty quickly.
On the whole, though, her limitations do a good job of counteracting her strengths, at least in my opinion. For instance, in SoA I was almost always traveling at night while aboveground, which meant much more sleeping and therefore many more random nighttime city encounters.

Her script is great too, she is just much more convenient as a trap-detecting thief than any of the other options including PC thieves, even if she does tend to charge.

Kish · « **Reply #11 on:** September 20, 2002, 10:24:35 PM »

I believe Valen doesn't mistform on Insane (or, indeed, on Hard), though I could be wrong.

reiella · « **Reply #12 on:** September 21, 2002, 12:14:38 PM »

With the ability to turn off Valen's bloodfirst, it's a bit easier to keep Valen 'alive' (As it were).

Personally I liked just casting Protection from Undead on people I didn't want Valen to go psycho upon

.

Hmm, that's another thought.

Althernai · « **Reply #13 on:** September 21, 2002, 12:24:16 PM »

Quote

Quote
Sure, but high-end opponents have weap. res. and prot. mag. weap... i.e. Yaga-shura takes long to kill with weapons, but level draining him takes couple of second... Is it actually possible to fight Eclipse party with Valen? If so, then their huge reg. is entirelly cancelled...
I did let Valen fight the Eclipse party, she whooped that party so bad that they didnt knew what hit them.

Yaga-Shura was dead in 5 hits... Oh it was the improved Yaga-Shura too. He didnt stood a chance. GWW + 5 level drains per hit is to much to handle for a giant. I wonder how she will do against the WeiDu Ascension battle.....

That is a bug. Yaga Shura uses the Runehammer +4 which makes you immune to level drain - Valen should be useless against him. I guess nobody at Bioware actually thought that you would try level draining him...

Michel · « **Reply #14 on:** September 21, 2002, 02:01:09 PM »

Quote

That is a bug. Yaga Shura uses the Runehammer +4 which makes you immune to level drain - Valen should be useless against him. I guess nobody at Bioware actually thought that you would try level draining him...

Hah!

Wes!! Fix it

:lol:

Meself · « **Reply #15 on:** November 06, 2002, 01:25:35 AM »

Oh I see. you think Valen is too powerful "just" because she can cast an improved version of a level 9 (NINE) mage spell (energy drain - necromancy), at "every" - read carefully EVERY - hit she does ?

Well I think you should have your head checked you know... the guy that made valen was surely a genius, noboby could have made a most overpowered character, theres just no single ability other than lvl drain I can think of that would made a creature more powerful and game breaking.. er.. I mean.. 'interesting'.

KaPe · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2002, 08:59:11 AM »

Well, I can... vorpal hits on strike... Hmm... But it would have to be ~30% to compare with 5lvl drain...:blink: And this "9lvl spell" is IMHO the weakest 9lvl spell in game... why bother with level draining if you can imprison it?

JP · « **Reply #17 on:** November 06, 2002, 06:57:41 PM »

Hmm.. I guess you wouldnt imprision everybody since you want the itens (principally the quest itens) but a lot of creatures have protection against impris. spell and also against instant death from the vorpal.. for instance I cant think of the powerful enemys being afftected by it but take a godlike enemy as yaga shura, valen can kick his arse like if hes a 9 year old child.. talking about imbalancing.

Userunfriendly · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2002, 12:46:40 AM »

level draining is same as attribute drain, and everybody hates mind flayers and their annoying insta kill effects....

vorpal weapons can be countered simply by casting deathward, and spell immunity abby so the pc cant remove or dispell magic....also a few bosses are immune to vorpal hits...

the only more over powering attack i can think of is a weapon that drains strength, or wisdom or whatever...and chaos, haers blade, is only +2....

say a +5 weapon, stormbringer, that has -2 to strength per hit...

the level drain is also the reason why i think the ultimate weapon in the game, provided by the game is upgraded gram, and why you get it so late...

Guest · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2003, 10:19:54 AM »

I, too, think that valen is way too strong with her level 5 level drain. so i changed her a bit.
the first equipment is the same.
the second upgrade she drain 1.5 levels (one lvl for sure and the second is a 50% chance), 1d6+4 dmg and +1ac improvement
third 2lvl drain 1d6+6 dmg +1ac
fourth 2.5 drain 1d6+8 +1ac
last 3lvl drain 1d6+10 +1ac
what do you think about this? is this too powerfull as well?

Sillstryparn · « **Reply #20 on:** March 23, 2003, 12:53:04 AM »

Imho the balacing is in the end up to you :blink: I think Valen is the the most interesting character in the game i want her in the party and would have it no other way. When she got her 4lvl drain i thought it was a bit too much, she was in no doubt the strongest character in my party, killing everything and everything they could spell to... and their mothers. So i just removed her claws and replaced them with ordinary daggers. This balanced the game perfectly, remember that you can adjust everything in the game the way you want it.

You cant dual wield her 5lvl drain claws and equip her with two ring of the kangaxx and spell turning robe and then complain about that she is overpowered. :rolleyes:

Sillstryparn · « **Reply #21 on:** March 23, 2003, 12:55:09 AM »

By ordinary daggers i mean magical ones, there are very nice and nasty little ones thoughout the game.

Guest · « **Reply #22 on:** March 23, 2003, 06:19:59 AM »

yeah i know its in the end up to me. she has now her second euqipment and 2 level drain is too much where i am now (still in athkatla). i have a very good dagger+4 as a second weapon but a vampire should use his natural weapons. ;-)
i only want other opinions about my setup. perhaps i reduce her damage a bit.

Samuel Coyote · « **Reply #23 on:** March 23, 2003, 11:51:09 AM »

Level drain often balances itself out. I found myself not using the +5 claws because she always shattered the enemy, leaving no loot. As for mass-producing claws, if you're roleplaying, dont do it.

While Valen is powerful, her disadvantages can get pretty bad, specially in a small party. Daylight leaves her totaly crippled- if you'd happend to walk into a tough fight during daylight hours, you're stuck with a useless heap of undead flesh. It happent to me during the fight with (improved) Yaga Shura- the sun rose just as he returned with reinforcements.
Ofcourse, with a lvl 30 kensai PC and Sola using his sword of cheese, the big guy wasn't much of a challenge anyway.

Oh, and if you want cheese, why not give Valen Solas sword(with UAI, she can wield it). Mmmmm... cheesy!

Ok, not really, the sword is overkill on Valen.

Kish · « **Reply #24 on:** March 23, 2003, 01:12:01 PM »

Quote

Oh, and if you want cheese, why not give Valen Solas sword(with UAI, she can wield it). Mmmmm... cheesy!

In the latest version of Solaufein, no one but Solaufein can use the sword, not even with Use Any Item.

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Author Topic: Valen gets waaay too strong. (Read 11701 times)

Michel

Yoho

Userunfriendly

Gospel

El Diablo

Michel

raven

KaPe

Michel

reiella

Piker

Kish

reiella

Althernai

Michel

Meself

KaPe

JP

Userunfriendly

Guest

Sillstryparn

Sillstryparn

Guest

Samuel Coyote

Kish