Author Topic: Suggestion for a tweak  (Read 5280 times)

Kish

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Suggestion for a tweak
« on: August 14, 2002, 10:45:06 AM »
It bothers me that, even if Balthazar allies with you, there's no way to get out of his fortress without slaughtering his army (say if you want to go back to the Inn to sell things).  Especially since he has those monks right there who "have nothing to say to you," it's not like he couldn't send the army a message to stand down.  Would it be possible to add something to turn the army nonhostile if Balthazar allies with you?                    

Offline Quitch

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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2002, 01:50:33 PM »
Mercenaries work for money.  There is no money in peace.  I doubt he has that much power over them, he can simply point them in the direction of the battle.

If he had full control over them do you think he would let them treat the townspeople as he does?  No, the weak fool has let them run the town in his place, it's too late for him to change that now.                    
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Caswallon

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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2002, 03:22:43 AM »
Aren't the monks hostile, too? (Can't remember exactly.) At least for them I think Kish's right.

Cas                    

Althernai

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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2002, 06:40:31 PM »
I agree with Kish on this - it si very surprising to walk out of the monastery after allying with Balthazar and get attacked by a hoard of his monks. Did somebody forget to tell them the news? You can keep the mercenaries hoatile if you want to (cheap XP), but fighting with the monks makes no sense.                    

Gospel

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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2002, 06:56:44 PM »
Ooooh, ooh.... *looks to the left!* Can *looks to the right!* two monks accompany Balthazar to the Throne, if you're playing on an easier difficulty level? :D

The mercenaries probably aren't loyal, but the monks seemed to be :)

Offline Quitch

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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2002, 02:02:14 AM »
Quote
I agree with Kish on this - it si very surprising to walk out of the monastery after allying with Balthazar and get attacked by a hoard of his monks. Did somebody forget to tell them the news? You can keep the mercenaries hoatile if you want to (cheap XP), but fighting with the monks makes no sense.
                   Of course it makes sense, it depends on how you look at it.  Your lord and master comes out of his keep with a child of Bhaal who has unknown powers and announces that the hated foe is now your beloved ally and friend.

In the world of magic, what are you going to think?                    
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Gospel

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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2002, 02:41:48 AM »
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Of course it makes sense, it depends on how you look at it.  Your lord and master comes out of his keep with a child of Bhaal who has unknown powers and announces that the hated foe is now your beloved ally and friend.

In the world of magic, what are you going to think?
That Balthazar sir was charmed-a-zoinks by CHARNAME? ?:)

Edit: Putting the proper tags around CHARNAME tries to html-a-tize it, so it doesn't appear... yowch :D



[!--EDIT|Gospel|Aug 16 2002, 09:43 AM--]

Lord God Jinnai

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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2002, 01:18:48 PM »
Quote
Quote
I agree with Kish on this - it si very surprising to walk out of the monastery after allying with Balthazar and get attacked by a hoard of his monks. Did somebody forget to tell them the news? You can keep the mercenaries hoatile if you want to (cheap XP), but fighting with the monks makes no sense.
Of course it makes sense, it depends on how you look at it.  Your lord and master comes out of his keep with a child of Bhaal who has unknown powers and announces that the hated foe is now your beloved ally and friend.

In the world of magic, what are you going to think?
                   Oh i'm sure they'd be suspicious as hell, but that doesn't mean they'd go and attack.  They'd probably need more proof than just their suspicions before they attacked the PC and his party.  LG/LN/LE monks aren't the same as LG/LN/LE fighters or whatnot.  They generally have more discipline and regimented levels of authority.  Not saying every monk is like this, but its far more unlikely that they would openly attack then fighters of the same alignment with the same amount of evidence.                    

Offline jcompton

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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2002, 02:01:06 PM »
Plus, they'd be more likely to know that Balthazar has MR and Tiger Strikes for days.                    
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Gospel

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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2002, 02:06:39 PM »
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Plus, they'd be more likely to know that Balthazar has MR and Tiger Strikes for days.
Artifact-level charming available to a dashing swashybuckler? ?:)

Caswallon

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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2002, 02:35:53 PM »
Quote
Of course it makes sense, it depends on how you look at it. Your lord and master comes out of his keep with a child of Bhaal who has unknown powers and announces that the hated foe is now your beloved ally and friend.

In the world of magic, what are you going to think?

When the Child of Bhaal comes to Amkethran, I'm not a hated foe but can move around quite undisturbed.
Of course Balthazar plans to eliminate me eventually, but I think it's unlikely that he revealed his entire plans to the rank-and-file. The orders to attack me are quite recent.

From Balthazar's point of view, it would seem rather stupid letting his monks get butchered by the beloved ally and friend.
And judging from the information we have, he has firm control over the monks.

Cas                    

Gospel

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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2002, 03:39:54 PM »
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From Balthazar's point of view, it would seem rather stupid letting his monks get butchered by the beloved ally and friend.

Cas
I think they do anyway, when Saemon guy "sneaks" them into the base-meow! :)

Would it be likely that Balthazar sir could convince them that the monk killings were justified-meow, along with convincing them that he wasn't charmed-meow by a dashing swashycat? :D

...... Incredibly likely, I knows.... :D But still! *spinnies* ^_^

Offline Quitch

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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2002, 10:03:56 AM »
Quote
Quote
Of course it makes sense, it depends on how you look at it. Your lord and master comes out of his keep with a child of Bhaal who has unknown powers and announces that the hated foe is now your beloved ally and friend.

In the world of magic, what are you going to think?

When the Child of Bhaal comes to Amkethran, I'm not a hated foe but can move around quite undisturbed.
Of course Balthazar plans to eliminate me eventually, but I think it's unlikely that he revealed his entire plans to the rank-and-file. The orders to attack me are quite recent.

From Balthazar's point of view, it would seem rather stupid letting his monks get butchered by the beloved ally and friend.
And judging from the information we have, he has firm control over the monks.

Cas
                   Information?  There is ONE fragment of information avaliable to you, the monks picking on the priest in the town.  That is it, and if that's a firm grip, I'd hate to see what would happen if he lost control.

Looked to me like the monks were enjoying their new found power more than the firm discipline they're known for.                    
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Blucher

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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2002, 03:37:11 PM »
The logic of the whole Amkethran plot broke down when Balthazar's alignment was changed to Lawful Good.  In know Dave says he was supposed to be Lawful Good but Balth, his monks, his plans, and the happenings in the town made sense when he was Lawful Neutral while nothing makes sense now that he isn't (w/o a lot of stretching).                    

Offline Quitch

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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2002, 08:14:32 AM »
Balthazar did what he did because he considered it the right thing to do.  He hated the suffering his people endured and the only reason he deliberately did the things he did was because he believed it neccessary for the greater good of all Faerun.  He even intended to kill himself in case the taint overpowered him.

He was scarificing his life for the good of the world.  How is this not the act of a good man?  How does that work within the neutral personality in any way, shape or form?

It makes perfect sense.  The situation in the town is simply an indication that Balthazar can only do so much.  People are taking advantage of this.                    



[!--EDIT|Quitch|Aug 18 2002, 03:16 PM--]
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Rathwellin the Bard

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« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2002, 09:08:25 AM »
Personally I see Bath as acting more CG.  He is acting for the "greater good" but he is tromping all over the towns "laws" and the "laws" of most nations as a whole with his actions.  Building national armies is fairly "lawful" while hiring mercs is usually not.

However it doesn't make much sense to me why he would let the PC slaughter his monks either way.  Even if he lacked control why wouldn't he arrange for the PC to simply avoid them?                    

Offline Anko

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Re: Suggestion for a tweak
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2004, 10:20:08 PM »
Personally I see Bath as acting more CG.

The problem with Balthazar's alignment is that monks HAVE TO be "lawful". But what does "lawful" mean for them? I thought they mustn't break their discipline, devote to the rules of "the road of a true warrior". So, if he thought that honour forces him to do so, or it is righteous to do that, he would do it, even if something else was expected (by monks, for example). Because monk's rule is not to obey the state's law, but the law of the gods who grant them their awesome powers. A monk is a religious person after all and he judges according to that.

 

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