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[!-Post: 2486-!][!-Time: 1027027183-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2486] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Littiz[!-/Name-!][/a] on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 02:19 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Before complaining a little I have to say that this battle is
great, I enjoyed very much the idea of "mirroring" the tests
of the PC. Also the old fight was really not what it should be.
But... argh!!
Wes, ehm, argh!!!!!!
I won Ascension, but this one...
urgh
It's not he Eclipse fight, we can't avoid the SoA final battle...
[img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]
After INCREDIBLE efforts I have managed to find a good strategy
for the first part of the battle...
(I mean that I'm able to win it, say, ONE time in 7-8 tries, no more
than this.....)
Ans this came with MANY, MANY reloads...
Now, let's assume we've won the first.
I have a thief. No uber-abilities.
HOW am I supposed to deal with the Slayer!!?!? [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":("]
I can only stand there and die....
Even if I manage to reach my equipment, it changes nothing,
thief abilities are useless, he sees invisible things..
Nothing to do...
In melee there's no match... Come on, he has -20 AC, I have
ONE Attack/Round, here it's not a matter of strategy, with
my char alone I can do absolutely nothing but ask for mercy
(and he WON'T show it...) and death comes unavoidable...
Frustrating...
Just out of curiosity, I ctrl-y-ed him when hope was lost...
So I tried even the third part, more than once.
I managed to wound him now and then, but he simply disappears AT ONCE
and heals immediatly.
All the members of my party (not much melee oriented, though)
were hitting together...
Yet I never got him to badly injured.
In the end I always depleted my spells and I was dead meat.
My point is: I cannot even figure a way to pass them singularly,
the simple idea of beating them IN SEQUENCE is beyond me.. [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":("]
I know you wanted a REAL challenge, and you had maybe Ascension
as a meter, but I really see no way out..
With my party at least.
Is toning down the battle out of question?
Should I re-install the old one?
[img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":("] [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":("] [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2486-!]
[!-Post: 2490-!][!-Time: 1027031501-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2490] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:weimer@cs.berkeley.edu"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Westley Weimer (Admin)[!-/Name-!][/a] on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 03:31 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!][font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]HOW am I supposed to deal with the Slayer!!?!? [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":("] [/font][/font]
Set a trap or two and then turn into the Slayer yourself. You still have that power.
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]Is toning down the battle out of question? [/font][/font]
Not at all. You are the first one to offer me any feedback on the battles themselves, so I will take what you have to say seriously.
(Blucher, can you try it out for me?)
What would you suggest in terms of making each stage easier?
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]Should I re-install the old one? [/font][/font]
If you like. Mods are only worthwhile if you're having fun. If this is just becoming frustrating for you, either Ctrl-Y past it or uninstall it.
I will try to incorporate your suggestions, though.[!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2490-!]
[!-Post: 2496-!][!-Time: 1027063169-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2496] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 12:19 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Can this Improved Irenicus mod be installed alone and only? I mean, I have downloaded the latest Sola mod v65, I haven't installed it yet though.
I'd like to give it a try. So, would it be possible for one to test it without unistalling v64 and installing v65?
A silly question perhaps, but I felt to ask it nevertheless.
@Wesley -- Have you had some specific tactic for beating him when you were designing Impr. Irenicus? You could probably help by suggesting a couple of things --like the traps above-- without proceeding to changes. Just a thought.
@Littiz --Do you know if User has tested this battle? I know that even a god of cheesy like himself is having serious problems dealing with Eclipse party :-)) but what about Irenicus? What's his opinion? And, by the way, glad to see you here. :-)
Cheers [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2496-!]
[!-Post: 2497-!][!-Time: 1027065489-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2497] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Littiz[!-/Name-!][/a] on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 12:58 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Well, the first section is damn hard, but we *can* do
it. I find the Wraith of Wrath the most difficult,
as with -24 AC all my "fighters" need a critical....
I've seen something like:
attacks Wraith of Wrath: 19+9 MISS... urgh!
When he focuses on a char, dead char.
So jaheira for instance, even if she drinks potions
and has ironskin, dies by strenght drain... unless I maze
her at the right time!!! [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]
With lot of summons and Sola with Prot. Magical Weapons,
I generally score enough criticals to kill him...
So for the first part, maybe I'd lower his AC, but
you could leave it as well for the challenge.
The second part.. ehm, forgot about the Slayer!!!!!
But I play always goody goody, and NEVER turn into the
Slayer...
Anyway, found something...
I desperately need traps even in the first part, BUT,
if I place them and then rest, I have another 5 (not-placeable).
(I don't like such kind of cheese, but, in despair...)
So, during the first section, if I manage to kill the others,
I've a lot of "free" time while I try to kill the Wraith,
so my thief could part and go set traps elsewhere...
Then maybe with the Ring of Ram...
Once I won with a few Skull Traps left there by Tashia,
VERY VERY tricky and lucky...
All in all, even this one can be done, yet I think it could
be "adapted" somehow to the PC, don't know if this is too hard
to implement...
For a thief is not an easy ride, believe me [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]
The third part ouch!
I admit there's a flaw in my tactics.. I don't like
to switch weapons 'cause I consider it a bit cheesy and
unstylish...
If someone has Prot.Magical Weapons, I prefer to take
it down with my mages and then strike...
But HERE I understand I can't go after elegance!! [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]
I'll try switching to normal weapons, but I know he'll
simply keep teleporting away...
When I have some more time I'll try again, after all
it took me a week for Ascension
Of course the best is waiting for other
impressions, if NONE is able to win it you may consider
toning it down!
@Aubrey: ehy, I was under cover!!
[!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2497-!]
[!-Post: 2500-!][!-Time: 1027066662-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2500] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:kozand@yahoo.com"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]kozan[!-/Name-!][/a] on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 01:17 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Mmmph... If newer Sola version will tone down Irenicus no problem. When we install Sola components we can always select no changes option to II component -if we are mazochist enough to leave uber Irenicus as it is [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]. But I'd like to see by myself first. I have a different party.
Westley, I don't know if you are aware but improved tactical encounters are superb. They make this game challenging even for powergamers! Good work Kensai Ryu, Blucher and others! [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2500-!]
[!-Post: 2507-!][!-Time: 1027105138-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2507] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:weimer@cs.berkeley.edu"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Westley Weimer (Admin)[!-/Name-!][/a] on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 11:58 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!][font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]Can this Improved Irenicus mod be installed alone and only?[/font][/font]
Yes. Just say "no" to the Sola components and "yes" to the Improved Irenicus component.
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]So, would it be possible for one to test it without unistalling v64 and installing v65? [/font][/font]
Yes. Download v65, but say "no change" to all of the options except Imp Iren.
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"] Have you had some specific tactic for beating him when you were designing Impr. Irenicus?[/font][/font]
No. I designed it with the assumption that a well-balanced party would be very useful.
You'd need a fighter for the Wraith, a magic user for the Sword, a cleric would help for all of the little shadows running around, druids can cast insect plague and disrupt the mages (they aren't immune to spell disruption and they don't use ForceCast whenever possible), etc.
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]as with -24 AC all my "fighters" need a critical.... [/font][/font]
Your THAC0s should be around -10 by now, at which point you hit him on a 14 or higher. Try casting Bless, Chant, and drinking strength potions (high strength = bonus to hit) to get your THAC0 down.
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]So for the first part, maybe I'd lower his AC, but you could leave it as well for the challenge.[/font][/font]
I'll consider lowering it. Let's see what others say.
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]Westley, I don't know if you are aware but improved tactical encounters are superb. They make this game challenging even for powergamers! Good work Kensai Ryu, Blucher and others![/font][/font]
Thank you for your lovely comments.[!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2507-!]
[!-Post: 2517-!][!-Time: 1027115306-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2517] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('* Anonymous *');"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Anonymous[!-/Name-!][/a] on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 02:48 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Yes, they are truly amazing.
I'm enjoying the sola mod so much...
And i haven't reached sola yet! [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"] [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2517-!]
[!-Post: 2522-!][!-Time: 1027120380-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2522] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Littiz[!-/Name-!][/a] on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 04:13 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] My top thac0 is -2 with Jaheira, 19 strenght....
Anyway, I'm able to pass the first section.
IMHO the real part that would need to be toned down is the
third. To me, it is *impossible*
This is what I tried to beat the Third Section:
having MASTERED the previous two parts with an absolutely
perfect strategy, I managed to get there almost at full
strenght and prepared as I wanted (happened TWICE in countless reloads, ehm)
For the Final Irenicus I had all redied:
Hasted fighters, both normal and magic weapons,
a couple of +5 weapons for the improved mantle,
mages readied to take down his protections, my thief
with 100% Detect Illusion to make him targettable,
a simulacred char wearing the Ring of the Ram,
so I had TWO rings of the Ram!!!!
I tried to strike as fast as I could, when finally
I saw two blows hitting at the same time I activated
the TWO rings of Ram... I NEVER damaged him so deeply
and fast before... and he was even under a Creeping Doom!!!
..but of course he teleported away and healed once again!
[img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":("] [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":("] [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":("]
Then I started depleting my resources, and he raised back fast to Uninjured.
The battle till this point lasted an hour, necessary
to do everything so perfect and readied for him...
It wasn't enough!
The second time I got there so well prepared, for some
reason I couldn't even touch him, not even a single wound,
and he slaughtered my party with his neverending Time Stops.
I surrender, I'll remove this component for now... [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":("]
Too bad, I had a lot of fun, but I cannot finish it! [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2522-!]
[!-Post: 2526-!][!-Time: 1027151978-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2526] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:59 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Littiz--
I suppose I have a long run before testing Irenicus, for I have started a new game to experience the new Solaufein's interjections, and we have just come from Underdark. (I don't like testing new components by cluaconsoling the areas, so I'll have to get through the whole quests, which I enjoy nevertheless)
Anyway. Taking into consideration that a few months back I had given up any efforts to finish Ascension battle --sooooo many reloads!-- your comments on improved Irenicus really scare me... Just a question out of curiosity: have you been playing with difficulty level on Core rules? Any tries to put it down to Normal?
Cheers [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2526-!]
[!-Post: 2528-!][!-Time: 1027158465-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2528] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Littiz[!-/Name-!][/a] on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 02:47 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] I've done it!!!!
Ahahahah!!!
Wow!!!!
What a satisfaction!!!!!!
Thanx Wes!!! [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]
I tried again the strategy above, and it worked
this time.....
I won Ascension in a week, and this one in six days... so you were right,
it's EASIER than Ascension!
ehmmmmmm......urgh!!!
[img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"] [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2528-!]
[!-Post: 2529-!][!-Time: 1027163903-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2529] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('* Anonymous *');"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Anonymous[!-/Name-!][/a] on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 04:18 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] WELL DONE LITTIZ!!
CONGRATS!! [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2529-!]
[!-Post: 2535-!][!-Time: 1027187179-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2535] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:weimer@cs.berkeley.edu"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Westley Weimer (Admin)[!-/Name-!][/a] on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 10:46 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!][font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"] I've done it!!!!
[/font][/font]
You are a small god, I bow and worship.
Since you are the first person to complete the Improved Irenicus mod, is there anything you would like to see added or changed aside from the tactics (e.g., I could add an Easter Egg for you or something).
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]What a satisfaction!!!!!! [/font][/font]
I hope that it outweighs the frustration. I don't think the II fight should be quite this hard.
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]I tried again the strategy above,[/font][/font]
This is the "hasted fighters, normal and +5 weapons, creeping doom, simulacrum, rings of the ram" method? Did he ever teleport away, or did you kill him "all at once"?
If you would like to write up any hints for new II players, I will include them in the Sola README.
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]it's EASIER than Ascension! [/font][/font]
Now that you've played it a thousand times, you have an expert opinion. What should I change to make it easier? Raise the Wraith's AC ... and then do something to make the final fight easier?
One option is to make him do "less damage". Perhaps slow down Jon-Bon's spellcasting? Right now he can cast a spell every two seconds (more or less). I could raise that to every three.
Another option is to make it so that he can't teleport away as quickly. Right now he can do that every three seconds if he is hurt and someone is within 10 feet of him. You didn't notice this, but if you stay away and pepper him with missile weapons (which is hard, because there are very few +5 ranged weapons) he won't teleport away.
Right now he TimeStops every 40 subjective seconds. So that's 18 seconds in the timestop, then 22 seconds out of the timestop, then repeat. I could make that delay longer.
What do you recommend? I want to make the fight "less annoying".
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]your comments on improved Irenicus really scare me[/font][/font]
Don't worry, Aubrey. There will be an "easier" version in the next update.
but of course he teleported away and healed once again![!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2535-!]
[!-Post: 2536-!][!-Time: 1027187835-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2536] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('* Anonymous *');"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Anonymous[!-/Name-!][/a] on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 10:57 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] when will the next version will be out? [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2536-!]
[!-Post: 2540-!][!-Time: 1027193147-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2540] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:25 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] @Littiz --
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!I'm really proud of you, my friend!! :-)
And do what Wesley suggested: write a tactic for your battle with improved Irenicus. It would be very helpful, I assure you.
@Wesley --
]Don't worry, Aubrey. There will be an "easier" version in the next update.
No, Wesley! I don't want an easier version. Really. If despaired, there is still the alternative of lowering the difficulty level, right?
I believe, too, to what one of Littiz's quotes says: If you never try, you are destined to fail.
Seriously, I would suggest you not proceeding to any changes as yet. Wait for more feedback on this battle, and decide afterwards. For example, today I found out that TorGal wasn't all THAT hard as I had thought in my first fight against him. Why? I simply changed tactic. :-)
Cheers [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2540-!]
[!-Post: 2541-!][!-Time: 1027193761-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2541] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:36 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] P.S. Since I'm sort of theoritical person myself, I'll comment on Solaufein's new interjections some time soon --I think :-/ If anyone is interested, that is. [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2541-!]
[!-Post: 2546-!][!-Time: 1027230279-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2546] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:weimer@cs.berkeley.edu"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Westley Weimer (Admin)[!-/Name-!][/a] on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 10:44 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] OK, Aubrey, no new version for you just yet. :-) Let me know what you think of the current one. Any Final-Save trial will do. :-)
I would love to hear your commentary on Sola's interjections. Comments and suggestions are always welcome.
Care to tell us about your new TorGal tactics? [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2546-!]
[!-Post: 2555-!][!-Time: 1027243234-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2555] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Littiz[!-/Name-!][/a] on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 02:20 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Well, now that I won it...
I've changed my opinion on the Wraith, after all
I HADN'T a balanced party, I lacked in pure fighters.
So this guy was the toughest for me, and had to work
a bit more on him.
You're right, even the second part in the end is not that
hard, if you know it.. I won it with traps and skull traps,
placed while the other party members were still involved in
the first battle.
Not easy as it seems, but neither impossible as I thought..
Yet the first times, when you're put there naked... with a
weak PC... argh!
(in truth, this is the only hint I could give, in addiction
to yours.... if you haven't a heavy melee char, you'd
better plan something DURING the first stage of the battle..)
The third part is difficult per se, and because you reach
there less often....
Yes, I used the above strategy (tough I lost Creeping Doom):
he teleported away twice, but the second time was closer
and I was able to reach him fast.
I think you could leave all the settings for the spells,
if something has to be lowered, then I'd choose
his teleporting capability...
Make it rarer, OR simply, use the DIMENSION DOOR effect!
This way the teleport won't be istantaneous, and you'll be able
to score a couple of added blows if you are fast enough.
EVEN BETTER, do as my friend Aubrey suggests, leave even the third
part as it is, and make it an unique fight as for Ascension!
I'll keep even this version if you change it.. [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]
@Aubrey: thanx for your comments!!! [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]
So, you say it's time for my "more aggressive" quotes once
again?
I could write my tactic, but it would be VERY specific to my party...
BTW, what is an Easter Egg??? ehm.. [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2555-!]
[!-Post: 2558-!][!-Time: 1027266422-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2558] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:47 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] @Littiz --
]BTW, what is an Easter Egg??? ehm..
Usually it's a chocolate egg given as a present to the children at Easter; but judging from the context, Wesley possibly means some kind of change or a bonus of sort as a "gift" to you --since you have been the first and only one so far to have tested and won improved Irenicus. I might be wrong though...
@Wesley --
]Care to tell us about your new TorGal tactics?
I don't consider it something "special", and I believe more experienced players wouldn't have had any serious problem beating him. Anyway, I'll write it down to a new conversation.
Cheers [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2558-!]
[!-Post: 2560-!][!-Time: 1027271757-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2560] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:weimer@cs.berkeley.edu"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Westley Weimer (Admin)[!-/Name-!][/a] on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 10:15 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!]Unrelated, mostly, the mighty Compton was kind enough to point me to a non-local Ilyich thread:
[a HREF="http://feedback.blackisle.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48461"]
http://feedback.blackisle.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48461[/a]
You know you want to try Imp Ilyich now that you've mastered either Imp TorGal or Imp Irenicus. :-)
Here's how the Hacker's Dictionary defines "easter egg":
[font FACE="Courier New"]Easter egg n.
[from the custom of the Easter Egg hunt observed in the U.S. and many parts of Europe] 1. A message hidden in the object code of a program as a joke, intended to be found by persons disassembling or browsing the code. 2. A message, graphic, or sound effect emitted by a program (or, on a PC, the BIOS ROM) in response to some undocumented set of commands or keystrokes, intended as a joke or to display program credits. One well-known early Easter egg found in a couple of OSes caused them to respond to the command make love with not war?. Many personal computers have much more elaborate eggs hidden in ROM, including lists of the developers' names, political exhortations, snatches of music, and (in one case) graphics images of the entire development team. [/font]
The entire pantaloon thing can be consider a (not-very-well-kept) easter egg. But, for example, if you wanted me to add a specific line of dialogue or something I could.
Even tactics specific to your party would be useful if you have time.[!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2560-!]
[!-Post: 2623-!][!-Time: 1027362903-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2623] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 11:35 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] I gave my very first *hopeless* try with a previous Final-Save.
First: the guy had stolen our equipment while we were sleeping. THAT'S NOT FAIR!! Wasn't enough for him that he has stolen my soul? (bloody b@#$@#d!) Secondly: I felt my knees trembling, I simply can't stand beholders! Solaufein went down first; the second to follow was I. Game Over! :-((
What I noticed: Nothing! I hadn't had the luxury of time. (Afterwards I read about Master Wraith's responsibility of Solaufein's and my death, too!)
Next *try*: at the end of my current game.
About the concept: Excellent idea, Mr Weimer! I consider it being a challenge based on mind and fighting style as well!
(You are pushing me out of my theoritical fields, but allow me to resist for the moment...)
Cheers [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2623-!]
[!-Post: 2630-!][!-Time: 1027370475-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2630] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:weimer@cs.berkeley.edu"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Westley Weimer (Admin)[!-/Name-!][/a] on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 01:41 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!][font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]THAT'S NOT FAIR!![/font][/font]
It happened at the beginning of BG2 as well. There's a big difference between stealing the Cloak of Cheese and stealing all of your equipment. Taking all of your equipment at this stage would not have been such a hot idea. Stealing the Cloak of Cheese allows me to even entertain the notion of having an enemy that uses damaging spells against you. If I don't take it, there's really no point in casting Fireball and Magic Missile. In addition, you can and will get this "temporarily borrowed" equipment back. :-)
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]Secondly: I felt my knees trembling, I simply can't stand beholders! Solaufein went down first; the second to follow was I. Game Over! :-(( [/font][/font]
Really? I uniformly find the Orb of Fear to be the easiest of the fragments. Get your saves down to about -4 in Spells and he can't really hurt you.
Spell Turning and Spell Deflection also work very well on Beholders. The Orb is not a "smarter beholder" (as per the mod) so he will fire his eye beams at high-MR people and people with spell turning.
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]What I noticed: Nothing! I hadn't had the luxury of time. [/font][/font]
Better luck next time!
What difficulty level do you play on? I'm considering making some parts of the fight easier if you slide the difficulty slider all the way to "easiest".[!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2630-!]
[!-Post: 2633-!][!-Time: 1027371362-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2633] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Reiella Darksythe[!-/Name-!][/a] on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 01:56 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Slight suggestion, keep the Shield of the Balduran [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]. That or add it to the list of things stolen. [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2633-!]
[!-Post: 2654-!][!-Time: 1027411800-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2654] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 01:10 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] @ Wesley --
]Taking all of your equipment at this stage would not have been such a hot idea. Stealing the Cloak of Cheese allows me to even entertain the notion of having an enemy that uses damaging spells against you. If I don't take it, there's really no point in casting Fireball and Magic Missile. In addition, you can and will get this "temporarily borrowed" equipment back. :-)
I understand perfectly your point. That's why I characterised it as an "excellent idea". [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]
]Really? I uniformly find the Orb of Fear to be the easiest of the fragments.
I didn't mean that the Orb of Fear was rensposible for our death, but rather that I have an innate dislike for beholders. A sort of "trauma".
]What difficulty level do you play on? I'm considering making some parts of the fight easier if you slide the difficulty slider all the way to "easiest".
Always on Core rules, and that's why I always face difficulties in winning hard battles. I'm not a RPG veteran, but this doesn't mean that I'll compromise with an easier level. Yes. Better luck next time. [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":("]
By the way, is this the first part of the fight?
@Reiella Darksythe --
Shield of Balduran had disappeared! It was the first thing to check out when I realised there was a beholder amongst...us!
Cheers [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2654-!]
[!-Post: 2660-!][!-Time: 1027450652-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2660] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 11:57 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Wesley,
I don't think that the Wraith of Wrath is the *most* difficult part. He's incredibly powerful, I agree. But the *major* problem is that bloody b@#$@#d Irenicus and the frequency of his spell casting. [After fifteen minutes we did kill the dragon, and we were about to take Wraith of Wrath down and the Sword of Greed as well --both of them "Near Death"-- when Mr Shattered One cut me into little pieces. (In the meantime Keldorn and Solaufein had died and been resurrected.)]
Irenicus casts one spell after the other. Even Tashia with the Robe of Vecna --and, mind you, she's the only party member with 9th level spells and reduced casting time-- is unable to compete him!
Okay, I understand my saying here is just a fragment of the whole picture, but I do believe that Irenicus casting time should be increased a little. Three seconds instead of two? I don't know. Whatever it takes to have the job done.
Spells I find quite helpful so far in this still unfinished battle: simulacrum, project image, lightning, planetar and Deva summonings, holy smite, chain lightning --the last two are a *must*, imo.
Cheers [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2660-!]
[!-Post: 2661-!][!-Time: 1027453949-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2661] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Littiz[!-/Name-!][/a] on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 12:52 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Aubrey, I think you have a little lesson here...
Don't LET a mage (ANY mage) cast his spells!!!!!! [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]
That is the first Irenicus you encounter, and, unlike the
last one, he dies pretty well by area spells, Abi, Skulls,
and the like.
I'm sure your Tashia has the needed spells!
I *know*, the first times it's frustrating! [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]
My advice: go kill as fast as possible Selfish Irenicus
(for his spells and his Shatter Magic) and the Dragon!
The Orb, the Sword and the Wraith may wait (a little..)
[!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2661-!]
[!-Post: 2663-!][!-Time: 1027456467-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2663] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:weimer@cs.berkeley.edu"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Westley Weimer (Admin)[!-/Name-!][/a] on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 01:34 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!][font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]I don't think that the Wraith of Wrath is the *most* difficult part. He's incredibly powerful, I agree. But the *major* problem is that bloody b@#$@#d Irenicus and the frequency of his spell casting.[/font][/font]
Unlike many boss spellcasters in this game (e.g., Mel), Irenicus can always be interrupted. Hitting him with Insect Plague, Creeping Doom, Miscast Magic, Poison, etc., will all work.
Also note that, except for some preps at the beginning of the battle, his "rate of fire" is constant. You won't see any sequencers or contingencies from this Smarter Mage.
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]After fifteen minutes we did kill the dragon[/font][/font]
Presumably this is 15 minutes of wall clock time, not 15 minutes of game time. :-)
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]Irenicus casts one spell after the other. Even Tashia with the Robe of Vecna --and, mind you, she's the only party member with 9th level spells and reduced casting time-- is unable to compete him! [/font][/font]
Selfish Irenicus has a Robe of Vecna and an Amulet of Power for spell-casting speed reduction. In addition, he behaves as if he were under the continuous effects of "Improved Alacrity".
Tashia could have all of these benefits (well, Alac for 3 rounds anyway) after you kill the Dragon and get back the Amulet. Actually, Selfish Irenicus will not cast spells "as fast as he can" because of his intentional 2 second delay. So Tashia could go faster. For example, Tashia could pump out 5 Skull Traps in 0 seconds with the Robe.
What is also worth noticing is that his "2 second delay" is a full stop: he won't teleport away during it. So for two seconds after he casts a spell, you can hurt him with impunity.
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]Three seconds instead of two? I don't know. Whatever it takes to have the job done. [/font][/font]
We could certainly do that. If you think he is way too hard currently (what difficulty level are you playing at) send me some email and I'll send you a replacement script for him that ups the delay to 3 seconds.
Interestingly enough, I've never used Holy Smite or Chain Lightning in this fight.
The advice of Littiz is quite good here. Selfish Irenicus's special "Shatter Magic" spell is not fun. Keeping your buffs and magic resistance is quite useful.[!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2663-!]
[!-Post: 2669-!][!-Time: 1027465619-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2669] By
[!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 04:06 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] @ Littiz --
]My advice: go kill as fast as possible Selfish Irenicus (for his spells and his Shatter Magic) and the Dragon!
According to my estimation, the Dragon has to go down first! If we go for Selfish Irenicus leaving the Dragon alone, we shall all end up sleeping meats for Wraith of Wrath's breakfast. On taking him down second, I wouldn't disagree.
@Wesley --
]Presumably this is 15 minutes of wall clock time, not 15 minutes of game time.
Of course! What did you think? Now that I'm thinking it again maybe it was 20 minutes... [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":("]
]We could certainly do that. If you think he is way too hard currently (what difficulty level are you playing at) send me some email and I'll send you a replacement script for him that ups the delay to 3 seconds.
I'm playing at Core rules; and though I'm tempted to accept your offer, I feel I should decline.
Today it was my first *serious* trial with the same old Final Save. I should try more, I'm afraid, to experiment with spells and such, and in either case to find a way to kill him. And, as I wrote before a while to Littiz, I'm trying to avoid reading his walkthrough for this battle before I find a way of my own. (Go, Aubrey! Go! ...Oooops! I stumbled over something...)
]Interestingly enough, I've never used Holy Smite or Chain Lightning in this fight.
These two spells helped us a lot to take down the Dragon while a Planetar kept Irenicus and the Orb busy. Holy Smite is... well, holy smite! :-)
Cheers [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2669-!]
[!-End-!]
[a name=MB]
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