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[!-Post: 2584-!][!-Time: 1027295737-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2584] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]starrie[!-/Name-!][/a] on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 04:55 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] just wanted to let you know how much I'm enjoying the new SoA quest comments for sola..and I'm wondering if your planning on doing something similiar for ToB...I can see him having something to say about marlow, sendai...several things in watchers keep..etc....also it is odd that he doesn't have anything to say to me about the pc's decision to be a god or not...especially after the lovely epilogues..especially the one if the pc choses to be a god..at the end of the epilogue it says "Why did I let her go?" well my answer to that was...why didn't you say anything at the time? lol! As you can see Sola has without a doubt become one of my favorite characters..great job!! (perhaps he could have a conversation with the master wraith? about phaere?) just a thought..thanks! [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2584-!]
[!-Post: 2585-!][!-Time: 1027295795-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2585] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:weimer@cs.berkeley.edu"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Westley Weimer (Admin)[!-/Name-!][/a] on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 04:56 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] There could be ToB questy interjections. Would anyone else be interested? There have already been quite a few votes for the Master Wraith and Almost-a-God chats. [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2585-!]
[!-Post: 2587-!][!-Time: 1027297139-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2587] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Reiella Darksythe[!-/Name-!][/a] on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 05:18 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Would like them myself, possibly some interjections for the quests in Saradush and/or Amtekeran (however its spelled).
Also possibly disable Solaufein and Edwin's Dimension Door abilities in Saradush, there's a very bad side effect to teleportation magics there after all [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"].
And of course, my typical request, have some of the advice be 'bad' advice given the situation. Course thinking of the limited number of quests in ToB, not a whole lot of quests. One thing would like though would not to have too many interjections. As it is, very few of the Bio NPCs interject on the quests in ToB, and it's more banter based for interaction. [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2587-!]
[!-Post: 2588-!][!-Time: 1027297836-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2588] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]starrie[!-/Name-!][/a] on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 05:30 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] oh..one thing I forgot.. a conversation with volo comes to mind as well...thanks [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2588-!]
[!-Post: 2589-!][!-Time: 1027300169-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2589] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:haber_adam@hotmail.com"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Adam Haber (Alson)[!-/Name-!][/a] on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 06:09 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] I strongly recommend adding interjections for ToB - After all, most players do most of the quests in chapter 2, thus not enjoying most of Sola comments.
Most of them also plan to take him into ToB - so i think adding ToB interjections would be important. [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2589-!]
[!-Post: 2592-!][!-Time: 1027302604-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2592] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Tsuru[!-/Name-!][/a] on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 06:50 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] I would chime in here but I think I've driven Westley insane enough for a while [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"] [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2592-!]
[!-Post: 2604-!][!-Time: 1027326140-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2604] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 01:22 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] @Alson --
Now that Sola mod has more interjections in SoA, one shouldn't, in my humble opinion, do the majority of quests in Chapter 2, but postpone them for after having Solaufein joined. One can go through Brynlaw, Spellhold and Underdark with less powerful equipment than let's say Carsomyr, Flail of Ages, etc. :-)
Coming back to Wesley's question:
Should Solaufein had interjections with Melissan, Sendai, etc., it would be really nice. Why, for example, not commenting on Melissan's voice and attitude when the party arrives in Saradush? Melissan's voice was what made one suspicious right from the start about she being not-exactly-what-she-pretends-to-be. Also: a conversation with Master Wraith about Phaere would be great!
As for the suggestion of Solaufein giving "bad" advices, I'm not sure I would agree, for it doesn't seem typical of him. Even in cases where the pc character might decide otherwise, Solaufein's questions and suggestions have been --so far-- in consistency with what we see as being his character. But even if there are moments where he appears uncertain in specific matters, this "section" is over by the end of SoA, when he is granted her godess gifts. Therefore, I can't see how a turn to "bad" advice could be justified. I am just skeptical about it.
@Reiella Darksythe
]As it is, very few of the Bio NPCs interject on the quests in ToB, and it's more banter based for interaction.
You are correct, and that's what surprised me most when I first played ToB. Isn't really weird? I mean, according to the plot, the situation in ToB gets more serious than ever before. However one notices NPCs expressing very little or not at all their opinions. It seems as if all of a sudden they lose all the "flesh and blood" they had been granted back in SoA.
Just my thoughts.
Cheers [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2604-!]
[!-Post: 2609-!][!-Time: 1027346380-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2609] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:jcompton@xnet.com"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]jcompton[!-/Name-!][/a] on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 06:59 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!][blockquote][hr SIZE=0][!-Quote-!][font SIZE=1]Quote:[/font][p]As for the suggestion of Solaufein giving "bad" advices, I'm not sure I would agree, for it doesn't seem typical of him.[!-/Quote-!][hr SIZE=0][/blockquote]
Getting sub-optimal advice is part of life... although if you're saying that Weimer's Solaufein seems a little too perfect, I agree. [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"] (and if memory serves he does give at least one sub-optimal piece of advice in the SOA interjects.)
[blockquote][hr SIZE=0][!-Quote-!][font SIZE=1]Quote:[/font][p]It seems as if all of a sudden they lose all the "flesh and blood" they had been granted back in SoA.[!-/Quote-!][hr SIZE=0][/blockquote]
That's what happens when your design timeline is "Have this game completely plotted and scripted before you finish this can of Pringles."[!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2609-!]
[!-Post: 2610-!][!-Time: 1027347629-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2610] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:Kish_K@pacbell.net"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Kish[!-/Name-!][/a] on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 07:20 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Yes, he is overly trusting in at least one place. (Notably, a place where Valen recognizes a trap.) [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2610-!]
[!-Post: 2616-!][!-Time: 1027361133-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2616] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 11:05 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] @jcompton --
]Getting sub-optimal advice is part of life...
I fully agree..
]although if you're saying that Weimer's Solaufein seems a little too perfect, I agree.
Perfect? I don't know. In one of my descriptions of him the noun "cosmos" was included among others. :-D
](and if memory serves he does give at least one sub-optimal piece of advice in the SOA interjects.)
Mmm. I haven't experienced all of his interjections yet, so I don't have an opinion really. However, there are some "grey" areas in the newer version, related to the "consistency" I mentioned above. Anyway. When I finish SoA I'll write something on these... inconsistencies --from a pure theoritical point of view, that is.
Cheers [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2616-!]
[!-Post: 2621-!][!-Time: 1027362747-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2621] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Reiella Darksythe[!-/Name-!][/a] on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 11:32 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Haven't had the chance to go through the interjections with Sola yet (just restarted a Valen-eebil party to go through and try the Improvd Irenicus), so I couldn't tell really.
Sub-optimal advice is just something that is nice to have to give the characters a more believable personality.
As for why the NPCs got quiet interjection wise in ToB, it's probably more so a case of them recogonizing you're the one with Divine Blood flowing in your Veins. They even stop leavign due to 'bad' reputation at that point. Prolly more so that it got rushed, although maybe even more so is that there are so very few quests in ToB to begin with.
Saradush has the most, except for maybe Watcher's Keep depending on how you view them. [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2621-!]
[!-Post: 2624-!][!-Time: 1027363957-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2624] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 11:52 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] @Reiella Darksythe --
If we discuss why NPCs stopped voicing opinions in ToB, I'm sure we will agree with jcompton's realistic explanation. It's just that from a role playing view, I can't justify this kind of muteness.
Cheers [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2624-!]
[!-Post: 2635-!][!-Time: 1027373921-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2635] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('* Anonymous *');"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Anonymous[!-/Name-!][/a] on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 02:38 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] Bah I've said so before I'll say so again. Solaufein is a) annoyingly "good" for a dark elf and B) hes too loquatious for my tastes =P I'd like to see him interject whenever other npcs do. [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2635-!]
[!-Post: 2655-!][!-Time: 1027412438-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2655] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 01:20 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] I am sure we are all entitled to our opinions. I, for one, like Solaufein more than any other NPC for the same reason you are finding him annoying: he is the most "alive" of all. And I enjoy the fact that he makes a differece. [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]
As for the issue of how can he be such a "goody-goody" guy when he's a "dark elf", I believe it's clear from his first lines, when he admits to be a follower of another goddess. In my humble opinion, this consists an evidence of him being an exception.
Cheers [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2655-!]
[!-Post: 2656-!][!-Time: 1027439038-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2656] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('* Anonymous *');"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Anonymous[!-/Name-!][/a] on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 08:43 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] An exception certainly, but living in that enviroment of constant betrayal and hatred. Along with following quite dastardly orders (he was more than willing to kill the underground gnomes if you didn't convince him you could do it alone) would change a person. Worshipping a good godess doesn't necessarily make you good. Plus hes always reciting poetry for godssake! [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2656-!]
[!-Post: 2659-!][!-Time: 1027444563-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2659] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')" onMouseOver="window.status = 'The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.'; return true"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Aubrey[!-/Name-!][/a] on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 10:16 am:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] ](he was more than willing to kill the underground gnomes if you didn't convince him you could do it alone)
I hate that, but I don't recall him being "more than willing" to kill those little guys, on the contrary: on the pretext that this is a petty task, he tried to avoid it.
]Worshipping a good godess doesn't necessarily make you good.
No, it doesn't, but there are more hard evidence for you: his second in turn dialogue with the pc character, concerning pc's pretence of being a Drow while in Ust Natha. He says something about *knowing* how it feels for he was hidding his own feelings and disagreement with what his fellow Drows were doing.
]Plus hes always reciting poetry for godssake!
Lovely, don't you think? [img SRC="http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"]
Cheers [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2659-!]
[!-Post: 2666-!][!-Time: 1027464683-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2666] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="javascript:alert('* Anonymous *');"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Anonymous[!-/Name-!][/a] on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 03:51 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] The drow in the solaufein mod would insult the matron mother to her face then force you to fight her. Face it, despite all his "hidden good" hes still pragmatic, and as such should realize you can't be good all the time. And the poetry bit seems more like a "Hey look how talented I am worship me!" type gamble than anything spontaneous. [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2666-!]
[!-Post: 2672-!][!-Time: 1027468164-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2672] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:artemidore@caramail.com"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Artemidore[!-/Name-!][/a] on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 04:49 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!] I like Solaufein a lot, I think Westley Weimer really managed to create an interesting character, but I guess some people could think that he is just a little bit annoying. Well, doesn't he speak always about philosophy, poetry, and stuff like that? That's what Westley wanted to do, and I find it quite nice. I don't see how quoting poems in the middle of a conversation could seem spontaneous: nobody do that in our world, but that was very nice to have a character that is different from people that you could meet in life. Different, and maybe a little bit more romantic ;-)
Aubrey, I just wanted to tell you that your idea of commenting Melissan's voice would be strange for a foreign user of the game, though it is surely very interesting for an English/American player. In the French translation (yes, I'm french, and I'm sorry for the mistakes in my messages) Mel's voice is quite normal, and I guess it's another reason to say that bioware was a little bit lazy with the translations. But anyway, I really feel the same way as you about Solaufein. Maybe we could create a fan club? ;-)) [!-/Text-!] [p]
[!-/Post: 2672-!]
[!-Post: 2674-!][!-Time: 1027469563-!]
[table BGCOLOR=#ccccff WIDTH=100% BORDER=1 BORDERCOLOR=#0000ff] [tr][td][font FACE="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"][font SIZE=-1] [a NAME=POST2674] By [!-Email-!][a HREF="mailto:weimer@cs.berkeley.edu"][!-/Email-!][!-Name-!]Westley Weimer (Admin)[!-/Name-!][/a] on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 05:12 pm:[/font][/td][/tr][/table][p] [!-Text-!][font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]That's what Westley wanted to do, and I find it quite nice. I don't see how quoting poems in the middle of a conversation could seem spontaneous: nobody do that in our world,[/font][/font]
Interestingly enough, I do things like that in real life. For example, I can quote the Emily Dickinson poem off the top of my head if the conversation calls for it. However, it probably would still sound strange to you. :-)
[font SIZE="-2"][font COLOR="0000ff"]And the poetry bit seems more like a "Hey look how talented I am worship me!" type gamble than anything spontaneous.[/font][/font]
Maybe it is when I do it as well -- it's hard to be self-reflective. However, among the people I chat around with in real life, making and catching obscure references is considered a fun time. That and playing bridge. Anyway.
There are quite a few people out there who think Solaufein should be ... different. More pragmatic, lawful neutral, more firey, who knows.
All I can say is that if you can get a handle on "my" Solaufein enough to know that he's not exactly what you wanted, then I must have done at least a half-decent job characterizing him. I'm just sorry that it wasn't the character you wanted.
BTW, Artemidore -- do you like the music of Francis Cabrel, Charles Aznavour or Notre Dame de Paris? Those are probably my favorites in the French Music World, but it's always nice to get suggestions from others.[!-/Text-!] [p]
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