Moonblade upgrade?

[sturmvogel]

I'm using Xan as a F/M in Improved Anvil and it would be nice if Xan could upgrade his moonblade for the post Underdark game. Maybe something along the lines of +4 with improvements to his A/C and savings throws.

[Kulyok]

As a fellow powergamer, I totally understand that, but the problem is elven lore in Faerun: the moonblade is generally upgraded with the souls of its wielders, and as such, it can only turn +4 or start dealing elemental damage after Xan's final death. I am sorry about that.

[sturmvogel]

Ok, fair enough. I'll survive somehow

[Chev]

I know some about Moonblades.  Moonblades have jewels that each new user adds to the blade.  If a jewel is removed that power is lost until that jewel  is replaced.  So maybe a jewel or 2 is missing?  Could be a quest or another reason Xan is still hanging around the PC.  Finding the lost jewel could restore a power to the sword.  When a user is bonded to the blade it developes a new power along the needs of the user, not at his/her death, when we first meet Xan in the Nashkel mines he is level 1 so he could not have used the blade very munch.  Maybe a new power could develope?

Another important point in the D&D world elves do not have souls.  Elves have spirits, and humans, half-elves, dwarves, halflings and others have souls.  I think the main reason many elves reject half-elves is their lack of a spirit, not their human blood.

I am starting another play though from the start of BG1 with a mostly elven party, and will be playing your Xan mod when I get to the start of BG2.

[Kulyok]

Elves indeed have spirits, as it is indicated quite a few times over the course of the mod, and many non-elves call them souls, whether being unaware of the difference, or simply not caring. (Indeed, Russian language has only a single word for the soul and/or the spirit). When you play the mod, you will see this topic discussed in detail - if your PC wishes to discuss it with Xan.

It indeed takes some time for a wielder of a moonblade to discover the new power that develops every time an old wielder dies and a new wielder bonds to the blade - although with Xan, it might not work as well, since he claimed the moonblade many years ago, so all the powers should've been discovered for now.

However, it is indeed also possible to set aside the canon and set on a quest to improve the moonblade, whether by adding a moonstone or otherwise. After all, if we were following the canon to the letter, Xan's moonblade would've had dozens of powers, ancient as it is.

So, yes, adding a quest could be possible - provided it does not seem forced or totally unrealistic. Just finding a pommel jewel/a person who could add an enchantment to such a jewel in an "I see you have a moonblade! Would you like me to upgrade it?" sort of way won't do, I'm afraid.

I will welcome your suggestions.

[Starcrunch]

As for doing the upgrade, could Xan, himself, do the work? Supposing a suitable gem was found that went with a Moonblade, Xan takes a very elven approach to magic (i.e. slow, patient, and subtle). He has a conversation with the PC about the nature of magic, in which he discusses magic and indicates that he is a capable artificer (IIRC). Perhaps a quest to find the gem, and then Xan can do the upgrade but only after reaching a certain level (say = to when he receives his first HLA)? Before that time he is studying the gem, divining its power and working on how to integrate it properly; perhaps an additional quest to find a book or something of the like which will help him do it. The Moonblade is bonded to him, I doubt it would allow anyone else to tamper with it and hence anyone else would strike me as likely to earn the blades ire.

-Starcrunch

[Kulyok]

This is interesting, especially given that Xan is an enchanter by profession, yes. My concern is that since a moonblade isn't just any sword, it might be more - difficult? dangerous? - to enhance. I'll look into the sourcebooks - it's not impossible, though, I agree.

I'll welcome more opinions on this, as well as on the possible enhancement(s).

[Starcrunch]

I'm not too worried one way or another about the features of the sword, it's a decent weapon and it's part of Xan's story to me, so he'll wield the blade regardless of what it's features are. That said I had a look at the Moonblades, and there are a few things that jump out at me:

Idea 1. Since the sword is sentient it could withhold some of it's own powers, until it has better judged Xan. He was found worthy of wielding the blade, but some of it's powers were left dormant so the blade could watch and observe. Xan hasn't disgraced himself, but he hasn't really distinguished himself (after all he claimed the blade at a very, very young age); Xan has not lived up to the potential the blade saw in him when it selected him as a youth. The upgrade could be in response to him doing something heroic or noble in a quest. I don't care so much for this idea because I like the idea of Xan's enchanter abilities having a role in the upgrade.

Idea 2. Perhaps the blade laid dormant in the past for a time, and Xan's father was the first in some time to awaken the blade (or his grandfather). The blade only has a few powers because when it was reawakened not all of it's abilities came back. During the long dormant period some of them became "severed" from the blade as a whole and remained dormant when the blade was claimed by the father and later Xan. The item found as part of a quest could be used by Xan (after much study, careful research, and perhaps another quest and only at the appropriate level) to try to reforge the connection to these dormant powers (the success or failure of which could also be based on how the friendship/romance paths have proceeded). This could also entail him also needing to claim the blade a second time after he affects the repairs (which require that it be done at a specific spot and should cost some XP; IIRC, claiming a Moonblade costs XP, tough I didn't see that in Elves of Evermeet). Between the time that he repairs the blade and reclaims it, he could be left without the blade and if the PC doesn't take him to the proper location for the ritual he should leave the party (if reclaiming were necessary). If you thought having to claim it again was appropriate I'd think the Temple where the PC exits the Underdark would be a fitting location if you wanted to make it location dependent in SoA.

About the powers: I'm not much of a power gamer so I'm not too worried about this. If you went with something like idea 1 you could get away with just a bit of improvement and you could have the sword improve small gains several times. The second idea would, by necessity only occur once, and it's a lot more difficult to accomplish so a bit stronger version of the sword seems reasonable (you could also upgrade the sword based upon Xan's class; but that makes the swords back-story a bit less well defined, since the powers are supposed to reflect the previous wielders). For the first idea I would think making it a +4 (late SoA?) and then maybe a +5 (early/mid ToB?)weapon and perhaps one other power with the second upgrade would be acceptable. For the second idea, supposing the upgrade was a challenge and not just an event, I'd say consider a list of the swords previous owners (with knowledge of their class at least) and make a suitable list of powers from the sources; the following look quite doable:
Elfshadow (basically a long lasting simulacrum, technically it shouldn't have been level drained; this may be too powerful)
Danger Sense (as the cleric spell find trap; nifty, but not powerful)
make it a +4 or +5 weapon (this would really help the F/M version of Xan, but does little for the Enchanter version)
Dreamwarning (it occurs to me that you could give the blade this power already; Xan seems to know a bit about the future, this could be the reason why; a few lines of explanation and maybe a story element comment here or there as the PC progresses through the game and it would be done)
Human Influence (as the ring of the same name; non-combat not too great by the time you get it, but a boost none-the-less; personally I perfer non-combat abilities)
Spell Turning (as the spell of the same name; perhaps boost the number of levels it can take as per the staff of the Magi; perhaps too powerful)
Luck (as the spell; perhaps a longer duration; it may be a bit powerful to make it a constant effect)
Opening (as the spell knock; this one is pretty poor even as non-combat bonuses go)
Blasting (as the horn; pretty good, but not terrific by the time you get it)
Fear (a favorite spell of mine; but not too great when you get it)
Dancing (IIRC there is a unique sword in the game already that has this ability, it's basically like the Mordekain's Sword)
Flame Tongue (as the sword; I don't care for this one)
Wounding (as the darts; powerful but seems not too appropriate for a Moonblade though it's on the list)
Vorpal (as a couple of weapons in the game; again not fond of it on a Moonbalde)
Warning (this one looks tough; basically it should work like detection spells but just return species and number; I don't know coding for IE at all so I don't know much about the prospects of an ability like this)
Throwing (this one would make the blade very, very good; basically a big throwing dagger like Firetooth; not sure if the graphics will work out for an ability like this; from an objective standpoint this is the most powerful ability on the list for the non-F/M Xan besides Elfshadow)
Sharpness (I can't remember what this does in 2ed, probably should allow for criticals on rolling both a 19 and 20 instead of just 20; not sure about the feasibility in IE).

Sorry for the really long post,
-Starcrunch

[Kulyok]

Thank you very much for such a helpful list.

I might be adding this opportunity via player-initiated dialogue in the next version, with the actual enchantment taking place after Xan hits 2000000XP or so.

Currently I am undecided whether to make it +4 or not(as far as I remember, you could hit nearly everything with +3, original Demogorgon included). It's not a big problem, however - I do not think it will unbalance the game.

As for other enchantments, I am thinking of one of these:

- memory enhancement: adds a small number of spells per day; or a Spell Trigger once per day; or, indeed, a (normal, as per the 8th level spell) simulacrum once per day;
- full fire resistance(and/or improved AC bonus);
- the ability to become invisible as per the Staff of the Magi;
- decreased casting times, -2 or -3;
- an extra attack per round(much like Belm or Kundane).

Some of these enchantments may be applied depending on Xan's class.

Again, all opinions are welcome.

[Kitana]

Dreamwarning (it occurs to me that you could give the blade this power already; Xan seems to know a bit about the future, this could be the reason why; a few lines of explanation and maybe a story element comment here or there as the PC progresses through the game and it would be done)

Just out of curiosity... How come Xan (and sometimes the PC) seems to have somewhat prophetic and unnerving dreams/foreshadowing now and then?

Throwing (this one would make the blade very, very good; basically a big throwing dagger like Firetooth; not sure if the graphics will work out for an ability like this; from an objective standpoint this is the most powerful ability on the list for the non-F/M Xan besides Elfshadow)

And, er... As someone who absolutely never has the Moonblade equipped (because I prefer my mages far, far away from all enemies, where they do NOT explode into little bits or get stepped on by dragons)... It being made in to a throwing dagger would help me a lot, but I'm not sure how much sense it would make.

All of those look really useful, and I'm thinking I should try a game with fighter/mage Xan some day if these ever are implemented. Invisibility would be extremely useful for me personally (My three-person party with thief PC, Imoen, and Xan stealths/goes invisible almost all the time), and decreased casting times sounds useful. Extra attack per round would only really help with a fighter/mage Xan, I guess.

[Starcrunch]

My take on the one's you purposed above (certainly not all of them should be used ):

-Memory Enhancement: Small Number of Spells; fitting and useful; hopefully it wouldn't be two over the top (like Edwin's amulet; I still can't believe they left that in)
-Memory Enhancement: Spell Trigger; fitting and useful if it's a once per day ability
-Memory Enhancement: Simulacrum; fitting and useful; it wouldn't be far off of the Elfshadow ability at all (basically a bit weaker than the 2ed Elfshadow and a lot stronger than the 3ed ability, which was basically summoned a Shadow that couldn't be turned)
-Full Fire Resistance: seems fine to me; handy but not killer
-AC Bonus: not really very useful; by the time you get to 2 million XP AC just isn't what really defends a mage (probably better for the F/M variation)
-Invisibility: overpowered if done as per the SotM (perhaps require Xan to use the item?)
-Decreased Casting Time: In itself -1 or -2 to casting time is reasonable, but if stacked with the Robe of Vecna it becomes way too strong (as in 0 casting time Horrid Wilting); perhaps if Xan refused to wear the Robe of Vecna (it is after all a powerful artifact of a Lich) it would be reasonable.
-Extra Attack per Round: I rather like this one a lot, it is fitting the Xan become competent with the Moonblade even if no other weapon. It's obviously better for F/M Xan but all versions would benefit in some ways (I often play heavy caster parties with 1 or 0 warriors)

EDIT:
Throwing (and Dreamwarning) is one of the cannon properties that is specifically allowed for Moonblades to have (under 2nd Ed. rules). I agree that throwing a sword like this seems silly, but it appears in the table of 20 properties that are often associated with Moonblades (to my knowledge only the Elfshadow ability is unique to Moonblades).

-Starcrunch

[Kulyok]

Just out of curiosity... How come Xan (and sometimes the PC) seems to have somewhat prophetic and unnerving dreams/foreshadowing now and then?

With PC, it is mostly the taint(see the prophetic dreams in BG1), and with Xan, I think he mostly dreams about all possible horrors - the worst possible things to come, like his or PC's death in BG1 and SoA, and PC's ascension(and death of the mortal form) in ToB. And sometimes they do come.

Invisibility: overpowered if done as per the SotM (perhaps require Xan to use the item?)

Only Xan can lift the sword, yes. But, yes, I realize it is a very strong enchantment. It is just - when I think of all possible enchantments, nearly all of them cause me to throw the blade away nevertheless.

Thank you for the detailed comments - I'll take my time and think about it.

[Chev]

"I see you have a moonblade! Would you like me to upgrade it?" sort of way won't do, I'm afraid.

I fully agree.

I think Xan's moonblade is a little strong for BG1, just about right for the first half of BG2, and really weak for ToB.  Long ago I talked to a few people about placeing a few 'lost' moonstones around a BP-BGT game.  Haveing 2 missing stones, but placeing 4 differnt ones around the game (like in the Dragon hoard in the Watcher's Keep or with Xan's cousin Erevain in NeJ) so depending on which path you took, the sword would be differnt.  I know you are not writing for a Mega install, so you might have a quest in the underdark or around Suldanessellar for one or two gems.  The blade/user might sense that it is near, but need to do a quest for someone and the stone as reward or Xan could 'charm' it from them and replace it with a great turnip.   

One power that would not be overkill, but very useful would be a dancing sword like Ras, would dance for 4 to 6 rounds.  Mages like dancing swords to protect them while they cast spells.

Also 'vocalize' would be nice and not too overed powered.

[Kulyok]

I think I'll add a few moonstones for DC, too, just in case. I'll have a look - I think there should be a stone or two in the original game, as well - but if I am going with "It seems you are becoming more powerful, Xan. Could it be that your moonblade might reveal more of its hidden potential to you, now that you have become truly worthy of it?" approach, I do not think I will need a whole lot of jewelry for the occasion.

I know you are not writing for a Mega install, so you might have a quest in the underdark or around Suldanessellar for one or two gems.

I do not enjoy Megainstall, but I do take an extra care to make Xan compatible with all mods available. I do prefer to write quests on my own, however - or submit them to the editorial control of someone whose opinion I trust and respect, this much is true.

Also 'vocalize' would be nice and not too overed powered.

True. I miss this in my games.

[Kulyok]

I am pretty much set on +4 enchantment(sadly, these days there is no shortage of mods introducing monsters that require +4 weapons to hit), and vocalize option.

I would like one additional "serious" option, however, because even with these moderate enchantments, chances are that players will throw the improved moonblade down the drain(I certainly will). So, how about

- Fighter/Mage - one additional attack per round;
- Sorcerer/Mage/Wild Mage, and the original Enchanter class - invisibility as per the Staff of the Magi?

All this bearing in mind that only Xan can use the moonblade.

[Starcrunch]

I kind of see your point... without the SotM invisibility the Moonblade is always going to be less good than the SotM, with it it can always compete and it would clearly be the best weapon for Xan (and probably the most powerful weapon in the game for a mage).

Would spell slots also not make the sword a keeper? It would probably do the trick so long as another character in the party can use the SotM (for me I rarely have fewer than 2 mages and usually have 3).

-Starcrunch

[Kulyok]

Perhaps they could. The problem is, extra spell slots for level 7 and below are of little value, whereas items that would add level 9 slots are unheard of(and overpowered, perhaps), and the Circle of Netheril(which adds a level 8 slot) is only found in ToB, and has to be assembled first. Whereas the Staff of the Magi is already available in SoA.

As well, there is a bug in the original game that allows anyone who possesses a Ring of Invisibility and a Bag of Holding to become invisible at any time: the ring recharges itself, once placed into the bag. And the Rings of Invisibility are hardly overpowered.

So I am unsure, really. But speaking of the spell slots, which selection would you like?

[starcrunch]

The bug with BoH and Invisibility rings is far less useful than the SotM because the rings take an action to activate (IIRC, they only function once per round and not in the same round a potion is drank or spell cast; this restriction is not present with the SotM; the greatest power of the SotM is the very instant a spell is completed you can hit it and instantly become invisible rather than having to wait 3-4 seconds which is needed for the Sandman's Rings).

7th level spell slots are very useful from a power-gaming perspective as Mirror Image is that level (and one Mirror Image gives you a free casting of your whole memorized spell set).

-Starcrunch

[Kulyok]

Two 7th level spells, then? Sounds interesting. The downside here is the popular spell Energy Blades - and earlier, Melf's Minute Meteors, which block the weapon's enchantments each and every time. And blocking additional spells is quite annoying - unless the player plays with Xan as a Sorcerer, they'll have to re-write additional spells into his spellbook each time he casts Melf's Minute Meteors/Energy Blades(and, of course, uses any other weapon).

[Starcrunch]

Uhg, I forgot about those spells...  That just gets horribly frustrating. The more I think about it the more I come to agree that the invisibility isn't that bad, and most of the enemies that it works against wouldn't stand a much better chance if Xan were visible. It does allow Xan to be much more powerful with hit and run tactics (skull trap anyone?).

-Starcrunch

[Kulyok]

Yes, and also in ToB there are lots of monsters(the first floor of Fire Giant Keep comes to mind) who just see through invisibility.

So, for the moment:

- Fighter/Mage - vocalize, +4 enchantment, one additional attack per round;
- Sorcerer/Mage/Wild Mage, and the original Enchanter class - vocalize, invisibility as per the Staff of the Magi.

[Kulyok]

Incidentally,I've been compiling this thing, and error messages like

Code: [Select]

[Xan/Dialogue/O#XanJ.d] PARSE ERROR at line 13968 column 7-16are funny.