Author Topic: Moyia's debt problem not credible  (Read 8056 times)

Offline Truper

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Moyia's debt problem not credible
« on: October 16, 2006, 09:21:06 PM »
Moiya, a poor woman living in the slums of Athkatla, borrows some money from a person of unknown connections and capabilities, and is worried because she cannot meet the terms of her bargain.  She approaches a party of adventurers, hoping they might intercede on her behalf.  All well and good, and certainly a reasonable outline for the plot of a minor quest to be added to BG2.  But let's take a look at the specifics.

The amount she has borrowed is 5000 gold pieces.  In Athkatla, 5000 gold is enough to: buy around 700 battle axes. Is Moiya planning to equip an army?  Enough for a party of 6 to spend 500 nights in the noble accomodations of an inn.  Has she decided that her family deserves to sample the high life for a year or so?  Enough to buy a powerful magic item.  Is she really the leader of a band of adventurers about to undertake a major quest, and a little short on cash?  In other words, she has managed to borrow what likely represents several year's worth of her income.  And she must pay it all back - in 6 days.  Not only must she repay what she has borrowed, but the money-lender has demanded a fee of 1250 gold pieces.  An interest rate of 25% per 6 days, or 125% per month, or an annual percentage rate of 1500%!  Celile makes the Mafia look like kindly-hearted and gullable bankers!  Unless Moiya was planning to buy a huge shipment of black lotus, and sell it all in 6 days, none of this makes any sense.

Offline Gorilym

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Re: Moyia's debt problem not credible
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2006, 09:50:46 AM »
Heh, yeah that 5000 gp is pretty extreme. :o Of course, if it had been a more "realistic" sum (100-200 gp perhaps) it'd be very tempting to simply pay off her debts immediately for the reputation (and possibly virtue) bonus, so from a gaming perspective it makes sense to keep it so high.

Offline jastey

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Re: Moyia's debt problem not credible
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2006, 10:08:21 AM »
How about: She has to pay back a dept of 5000 gold pieces that was created by her husband, who wanted to equip an army that was staying in the noble accomodations of an inn. :)

Offline evildevil

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Re: Moyia's debt problem not credible
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2006, 03:07:24 PM »
as long as the hubby is dead, I like it.

Offline Gorilym

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Re: Moyia's debt problem not credible
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2006, 03:17:11 PM »
as long as the hubby is dead, I like it.





SPOILER SPACE
















He's not, IIRC he's in Spellhold.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2006, 03:18:43 PM by Gorilym »

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Moyia's debt problem not credible
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2006, 11:38:28 PM »
IIRC, that's not a spoiler at all--she tells you he was taken by the Cowls in her very first dialogue.

A husband who spends 5000gp on magical components, makes the mistake of getting caught by the Cowls, who take him and the components ("Hey, this is--uh--evidence, yeah, evidence, we have to confiscate it. Regulations."), leaving his wife with the 6250gp debt, is all quite believable, given Cowled behavior and Celile's interest rates. It would be a trifling matter to tweak Moiya's dialogue to something more like this; all you need to alter is that it was her husband that incurred the debt, not her. She doesn't even need to mention the components; someone whose spouse has just been kidnapped is hardly likely to notice (or care about) the theft of a box of dragon guano.

Offline Gorilym

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Re: Moyia's debt problem not credible
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2006, 04:23:05 AM »
The fact that you are told "he was taken by the cowls" hardly equals "you'll find him in Spellhold". His wife has no way of knowing whether he's alive or not. But I suppose it's not much of a spoiler in any case, as his offshore appearance is pretty much a cameo.

Your explanation of the debt is a good one, certainly works better than "had to borrow 5000 gp to feed and clothe the kids".

Offline jastey

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Re: Moyia's debt problem not credible
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2006, 10:57:06 AM »
to feed and clothe the kids".
Depends on how many. :P

Offline Gorilym

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Re: Moyia's debt problem not credible
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2006, 03:32:22 AM »
Sure, but I have no reason to believe that Moiya has hundreds of mouths to feed...  ;D

Offline rreinier

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Re: Moyia's debt problem not credible
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2006, 08:27:33 AM »
I also think the amount is completely ridiculous, though I'd decrease it even further than has been suggested, or revise the dialogue. A normal day's wages is 1sp, or 0,1gp. That's 3gp/month, and 36gp/year. I can't see a commoner (a poor one at that) loaning more than 10/20gp. 20gp is already more than half a years' wages, after all. The interest is also way to high, but this can be amended by extending the timespan. If she borrowed the money a year or two ago, 25% would be a lot more reasonable (though still steep).

Of course, this would make it trivial for the player to pay back the money, but in the end, we have to realize that it's a simple fact that the PC has vast amounts of gold at his disposal.

Offline Gorilym

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Re: Moyia's debt problem not credible
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2006, 08:57:16 AM »
Yeah, but if you make it a truly "realistic" figure the quest will become a mini-encounter instead of a... um, quest. ;) I like SixOfSpades' interpretation because it's reasonably believable, and it ties in with existing plot elements. (Moiya's husband being a mage, Cowlies are often corrupt etc.)

Offline rreinier

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Re: Moyia's debt problem not credible
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2006, 09:23:00 AM »
True, though I'd still opt for a more long-term loan, sice I can't really see a situation where a 25% interest rate over a period of 6 days is reasonable. And even if it were, there would probably be other moneylenders in Athkatla charging less interest.

The only trouble with the "wife of a powerful mage" is that I'd imagine her to be reasonably wealthy, too, as one would imagine that her husband made a tidy sum selling magical items.

morken3

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Re: Moyia's debt problem not credible
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2007, 03:22:00 AM »
"A normal day's wages is 1sp, or 0,1gp."
 
- Ha. An ale costs 1gp.

Speaking of economy scales, 1gp would have roughly the buying power of 10 bucks.

Thus, a peasant probably earnt 5-10 gp a day?

A healing cost 50gp at a temple.

A full time level 1 clerical healer could potentially make 365 * 50gp annual income.

Grocer

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Re: Moyia's debt problem not credible
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2007, 05:02:24 PM »
How about her daughter is one of the lotus heads in the back of the corronet.  She needs the cash to pay off the dealers so that daughter isn't sold into slavery, putting her other kids at risk of the same.

 

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