Hey, what's this 'Lost Items' mod like?

[Bursk]

I'm specifically wondering about the 'Lost Items' and 'Monks aren't lame' components.

Firstly, is there any other mod that does something similar to the Lost Items part?  If so, which mod is considered the more balanced?

Has anyone tried out the monk component and used it through both Tutu and BG2?  Is it a welcome change, or does it makes monks too powerful?

Finally, assuming that the Lost Items component is recommended to me, is there any way that I can remove the size 50 stacks that it implements?  I use other methods to increase my stack size (and I don't mean some sort of pump), and this is messing things up for me.

Cheers.

[Miloch]

The BG2 Tweaks 'Exotic Items' component probably does something similar to Lost Items, which adds a katana, wakizashi or two about the game.  I doubt they do so overpoweringly though or conflict, even if both used.

The anti-wuss monk component is probably similar to the Monk Remix in Sword and Fist, though it probably isn't as extensive.  They are probably also compatible, though you might want to install Lost Items first.  I have installed them both without errors, though I've never really played a monk, except in initial Lost Items testing.

As for your 'stack size' , I can't recall if that's an optional component.  Ascension64 updated the mod though, so maybe he can comment.

[Ascension64]

No, from the description of the mod, the ammo stacks is part of the Lost Items component. I guess you can change this by finding a mod that allows you to change the stack size (such as Boorsook's MixMod) and installing it on top of Lost Items.

Alternatively, if you are more adventurous, simply find this single line in Setup-LostItems.tp2 (there are two instances of this):

WRITE_SHORT 0X38 50

and put a comment at the start of the line...

// WRITE_SHORT 0X38 50

Then, re-install the Lost Items component.

[Bursk]

Thanks for the replies.

I've never looked at Sword and Fist, so I'll have to have a look at the readme to see how it compares.  I have read that monks are crap at low levels, so it seems that something will need to be done.

Regarding Exotic Items, I seem to recall that Cam said something about the katana, wakizashi etc being very rare in the game, so these still weren't really viable weapon choices for a character.  But I also plan on using the BG2 Tweak Pack's 'Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies' component, so maybe that will even things up a bit.  I know these types of weapons are meant to be rare in the Sword Coast, but I'd still like every weapon choice to be okay to pick for a new character.

Ascension64, could you tell me how many of each item are put into the game by Lost Items, and where?  I'll also contact Cam and see if he can do the same regarding Exotic Items.  That should give me a better idea of what mod to install, or even if I should install them both.

I opened the tp2 and found that entry at both line 409 and line 694 (two instances, like you said).  There is meant to be a space between // and 'WRITE_SHORT 0X38 50', yeah?

Edit: Ah, I forgot to explain further the stack size issue.  I do use Mix Mod (with 100% ammo stack size increase) in conjunction with Tutufix's BG2 Ammo Stacks.  Using these two mods together (with BG2 Ammo Stacks installed first) gives me arrow stacks of 80.  This is the same as I use when playing BG2.

Problem is, if I install Lost Items before Mix Mod, I then get arrow stacks of 100, since Mix Mod is doubling the 50 from Lost Items, and not the 40 from Tutufix's BG2 Ammo Stacks.  It may seem like an odd thing to 'complain' about, but I want my max stack sizes for ammo, potions, scrolls etc to be identical for both BG Tutu and BG2.  That's why I'll have to edit the tp2, I guess.

[CamDawg]

Regarding Exotic Items, I seem to recall that Cam said something about the katana, wakizashi etc being very rare in the game, so these still weren't really viable weapon choices for a character.  But I also plan on using the BG2 Tweak Pack's 'Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies' component, so maybe that will even things up a bit.  I know these types of weapons are meant to be rare in the Sword Coast, but I'd still like every weapon choice to be okay to pick for a new character.

Yes, these are kept very rare intentionally. "WARNING:  Magical katanas are very rare in Baldur's Gate 2!" is a bad enough joke in BG2.

Some mod has also gone through and added unenchanted bracers and belts to a grip of stores. I don't know why but it's very obnoxious. (Edit: It's BG1UB.) One of the guys in Sirine's Call has an unenchanted katana, and there are some normal scimitars present on other SC creatures.

And now, for the spoilers (everything that's added by Exotic Items)...





Scrolls

• Davaeorn has a Contagion scroll in his loot.
• Spook, Refelcted Image, Find Familiar, and PW: Sleep (two each) added to the High Hedge store
• Spook, Refelcted Image, Find Familiar, PW: Sleep, Melf's Minute Meteors, Protection from Cold, Hold Undead, and Spider Spawn (two each) added to Sorcerous Sundries store

Weapons

• All stores which sell normal short swords now sell normal scimitars (if they didn't already)
• Maneira has a scimitar +1 (assassin group at exit of Nashkel mines)
• Sendai has a scimitar +1 (encountered in the wilderness near Nashkel)
• Normal ninja-to added to Sil's cave (the one with the three flesh golems)
• Ninja-to +1 added to Black Lily's store
• Hakt has a normal wakazashi (hobgoblin in the bandit camp)
• Desreta has a wakazashi +1 (one of the two females in the Low Lantern that attack)
• Melium has a normal katana (self-proclaimed greatest swordsman at Firewine)
• Haseo has a katana +1 (group with Tamoko right outside of Sarevok and the final battle)
• Krumm has a cursed katana +2 (one of the dolts bothering the dryad and her tree in the Cloudpeaks)

Other

• Davaeorn has a Flickering White Ioun Stone
• High Hedge has a Deep Purple Ioun Stone for sale
• Thunderhammer Smithy sells a Case of Plenty +0
• Nashkel General Store sells a Bag of Plenty +0
• One of the Nashkel Carnival tent stores sells a Quiver of Plenty +0

[CamDawg]

And to save anyone a trip to the readme, the Add Bags of Holding component adds a gem bag to the Friendly Arms Inn store, a scroll case at the High Hedge, an Ammo Belt to Black Lily, a Potion Case to the Beregost Temple, and a Bag of Holding to the Sorcerous Sundries.

[berelinde]

Was the potion case changed recently? I always find it in Nashkel, at the store.

[CamDawg]

Oh yeah, scratch that. More readme errors--let's try a gem bag to FAI, scroll case to High Hedge, ammo belt to Thunderhammer, bag of holding to Sorcerous Sundries, and, indeed, the potion case at the Nashkel store.

[devSin]

Some mod has also gone through and added unenchanted bracers and belts to a grip of stores. I don't know why but it's very obnoxious.

icelus thanking you muchly for your praise.

[Bursk]

Thanks for the list, Cam.

The only 'problem' I see with the items added is that if you're using the 'Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies' component from the Tweak Pack, creating a character who uses wakazashis/katanas is a mistake.  I can't see how a fighter who puts all his stars into this proficiency will survive.  But why should the game punish you for choosing this particular proficiency group?  Sure, the weapons are rare, but couldn't there be a standard, non-magical wakazashi or katana available a little earlier, just for those of us who use 'Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies'?

[Miloch]

Sure, the weapons are rare, but couldn't there be a standard, non-magical wakazashi or katana available a little earlier, just for those of us who use 'Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies'?

In 'Lost Items' you can get both in Candlekeep (you'll have to search a bit, but they're there) as well as potion, scroll and gem containers on Gorion's dead body.

Alternatively, if you are more adventurous, simply find this single line in Setup-LostItems.tp2 (there are two instances of this):
WRITE_SHORT 0X38 50
and put a comment at the start of the line...
// WRITE_SHORT 0X38 50

Any reason not to make the stack changes an optional component?  As I observed before, the original authors seem to have abandoned the mod and left it open to future community revision.

[CamDawg]

The only 'problem' I see with the items added is that if you're using the 'Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies' component from the Tweak Pack, creating a character who uses wakazashis/katanas is a mistake.  I can't see how a fighter who puts all his stars into this proficiency will survive.  But why should the game punish you for choosing this particular proficiency group?  Sure, the weapons are rare, but couldn't there be a standard, non-magical wakazashi or katana available a little earlier, just for those of us who use 'Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies'?

Rebalanced or no, katanas and wakizashis are rare on the Sword Coast, as the prof warns you (be it rebalanced or no). From a roleplaying standpoint, how did you have access to them in Candlekeep and managed to become proficient with them anyway?

No, I'm not going to alter it for powergamers at the expense of roleplaying and common sense. Cheat in a weapon if you must.

[Miloch]

Rebalanced or no, katanas and wakizashis are rare on the Sword Coast, as the prof warns you (be it rebalanced or no). From a roleplaying standpoint, how did you have access to them in Candlekeep and managed to become proficient with them anyway?

I'm sure you could make up something.  Some wandering monk/weaponsmaster from the East (or wherever in FR terms) visits Candlekeep and teaches you the Art of War, grasshopper.  Then the assassins who are looking for you kill him in the process, leaving his rather odd items behind.

Little point in changing one mod if it's already available in another, in any case.

I've always wondered why katanas and wakizashis are different proficiencies from bastard swords and short swords anyway.  From what I know of fencing, you don't use them really all *that* differently.  A rapier is more different from a long sword than a scimitar or katana is.  Though I think there's a Tweaks component that changes this too.

[CamDawg]

I've always wondered why katanas and wakizashis are different proficiencies from bastard swords and short swords anyway.  From what I know of fencing, you don't use them really all *that* differently.  A rapier is more different from a long sword than a scimitar or katana is.  Though I think there's a Tweaks component that changes this too.

Definitely different. The weight is distributed differently along the blade than short/long/bastard swords, and the curved blades make countering attacks much different (basically, it's a deflection and strike in one motion if done correctly). The curved blades (and lack of a bloodlet) makes them primarily fast, slashing weapons with few thrusting attacks. Dexterity and technique is a lot more important than strength.

(Yes, I was in kenjutsu classes with live blades.)

[Miloch]

The weight is distributed differently along the blade than short/long/bastard swords, and the curved blades make countering attacks much different (basically, it's a deflection and strike in one motion if done correctly).

So they're similar to scimitars and sabers in that respect.

[CamDawg]

Sabres are straight, so parrying is different. I believe scimitars have more weight at their end, whereas katanas and wakizashis are more or less equally weighted along their length.

[Miloch]

Sabres are straight...

They're usually curved actually, though not as much as scimitars.  Also single-edged, which puts them in the same broad category as scimitars, cutlasses, shamshirs, falchions, katanas and wakizashis.  I'm sure there are differences in weighting and the like, just as there are amongst straight double-edged longswords of different types.

[Bursk]

The only 'problem' I see with the items added is that if you're using the 'Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies' component from the Tweak Pack, creating a character who uses wakazashis/katanas is a mistake.  I can't see how a fighter who puts all his stars into this proficiency will survive.  But why should the game punish you for choosing this particular proficiency group?  Sure, the weapons are rare, but couldn't there be a standard, non-magical wakazashi or katana available a little earlier, just for those of us who use 'Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies'?

Rebalanced or no, katanas and wakizashis are rare on the Sword Coast, as the prof warns you (be it rebalanced or no). From a roleplaying standpoint, how did you have access to them in Candlekeep and managed to become proficient with them anyway?

No, I'm not going to alter it for powergamers at the expense of roleplaying and common sense. Cheat in a weapon if you must.

Hold on, having access to a non-magical wakazashi or katana early on in the game is powergaming?  Don't you think it's a little harsh that a player can choose a weapon proficiency that they then aren't able to use?  What's the point in offering the proficiency during character creation if it's useless?  Why not just remove it from the game, after all 'how did you have access to them in Candlekeep and managed to become proficient with them anyway?'.  But isn't it possible that a culture-heavy place like Candlekeep would have a few of these exotic weapons?  I'm not suggesting that someone in Candlekeep would be selling these things, but maybe your PC took an interest in the exotic and was granted persmission to practice with one of them.

Not trying to be a dick, rather just stating an alternate point of view.  Still, I'm pretty sure I've explained things thoroughly and clearly, so will now drop the subject.  I think healthy debate on how to change and hopefully improve the game is a good thing.

[Bursk]

Sure, the weapons are rare, but couldn't there be a standard, non-magical wakazashi or katana available a little earlier, just for those of us who use 'Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies'?

In 'Lost Items' you can get both in Candlekeep (you'll have to search a bit, but they're there) as well as potion, scroll and gem containers on Gorion's dead body.

Alternatively, if you are more adventurous, simply find this single line in Setup-LostItems.tp2 (there are two instances of this):
WRITE_SHORT 0X38 50
and put a comment at the start of the line...
// WRITE_SHORT 0X38 50

Any reason not to make the stack changes an optional component?  As I observed before, the original authors seem to have abandoned the mod and left it open to future community revision.

Thanks for the info, Miloch.

I'll have to try the mod, but this is the kind of give-away that I hope to avoid in mods I use.  I think it's a little unbalanced to just gift the player these things.  I'm leaning towards just using Exotic Items, but I'll have to give it some more thought.

[Kulyok]

And to save anyone a trip to the readme, the Add Bags of Holding component adds a gem bag to the Friendly Arms Inn store, a scroll case at the High Hedge, an Ammo Belt to Black Lily, a Potion Case to the Beregost Temple, and a Bag of Holding to the Sorcerous Sundries.

What's that with BG2 Tweaks and potion cases? It is actually at Nashkel store.

[Ascension64]

Well, here is the spoiler of all the changes made by the Lost Items component (I've highlighted the items that you would be interested in):

Ashirukuru, Shadow Warrior (in Durlag's Tower [TotSC])
Replaced Short Sword with Wazikashi +1
Added Boots of Phasing, Poisoned Throwing Dagger

Beyn (in the Ice Island cave [TotSC])
Added Poisoned Throwing Dagger, Bracers of Defense AC4, Fail +2

Bishop (in the Chess game of Durlag's Tower [TotSC]
Added Full Plate Mail +1, Large Shield +1, Flail +1, Sling of Seeking +2, Sunstone Bullet +1

Davaeorn ('boss' of Cloakwood Mines)
Added Scroll Case, Bag of Holding, Poisoned Throwing Dagger, Sling +2, Sunstone Bullet +1

Gorion (umm, who is he?  Gets killed right after the tutorial)
Added Gem Bag, Scroll Case, Potion Case, Scroll of Identify

Gnoll Chieftan (at Gnoll Stronghold and the area just South of the Lighthouse area)
Replaced Halbert with Spear +1
Added Hide Armor

Jardak (resides in a house in Baldur's Gate North)
Replaced Long Sword +1 with Katana +2
Added Sling +2, Sunstone Bullet +1

Nimbul (a hostile encounter at Nashkel)
Replaced Short Sword +1 with Scimitar +1
Added Gem Bag, Scroll Case

Prism (Nashkel Mines exterior; the one hunted by Greywolf)
Added Gem Bag, Potion Case

Raemon (in Tazok's tent in the Bandit Camp)
Replaced Long Sword with Spear +2

Rashad (the poisoner of Duke Eltan in the final chapter)
Replaced Long Sword with Katana +2

Slythe (one of the assassins of Scar found in the final chapter)
Replaced Light Crossbow with Boomerang Dagger +2
Added Poisoned Throwing Dagger

Tam (found in the exit of the Candlkeep Catacombs)
Replaced Short Sword with Spear +2

Teven (at Bandit Camp)
Replaced Long Sword with Wazikashi +1
Added Poisoned Throwing Dagger

Teyngan (a bandit north-west of Nashkel)
Replaced Mace with Flail +1
Added Sling +1, Sunstone Bullet +1

Vax (a bandit south of Nashkel)
Replaced Halberd with Wazikashi +1
Added Ninja-To +1, 2 Ammo Belts, Poisoned Throwing Dagger

FW2602 - Candlekeep Introduction: Shank's Shack
Added to Container 3: Potion of Healing, unbreakable Ninja-To, unbreakable Katana

FW4800 - Nashkel
Added to Container 7: Ammo Belt, Bracers of Defense AC5, Dart of Stunning
Replace in Container 7: Ankheg Plate Mail with Hide Armor

Change stackable size to 50

• Arrows, Arrows +1, Acid Arrows, Arrow of Biting, Arrows of Detonation, Arrow of Fire, Arrows of Ice, Arrows of Piercing, Arrow +2
• Throwing Axe
• Bolt, Bolt +1, Bolt of Lightning, Bolt of Biting, Bolt of Polymorphing, Bolt +2
• Bullet, Bullet +1, Bullet +2, Sunstone Bullet +1
• Throwing Dagger, Poisoned Throwing Dagger
• Dart, Dart +1, Dart of Stunning, Dart of Wounding

As you can see, you get a number of 'gifts' right at the start of the game with Lost Items.

Oh, and it doesn't matter what you put after the '//' in the line, since that symbol simply comments everything after it out (till the end of line) no matter what follows it.

@Miloch: Yes, I can move to the ammo stacks part to a separate component.

[CamDawg]

Hold on, having access to a non-magical wakazashi or katana early on in the game is powergaming?  Don't you think it's a little harsh that a player can choose a weapon proficiency that they then aren't able to use?  What's the point in offering the proficiency during character creation if it's useless?  Why not just remove it from the game, after all 'how did you have access to them in Candlekeep and managed to become proficient with them anyway?'.  But isn't it possible that a culture-heavy place like Candlekeep would have a few of these exotic weapons?  I'm not suggesting that someone in Candlekeep would be selling these things, but maybe your PC took an interest in the exotic and was granted persmission to practice with one of them.

There's been no valid reason presented so far other than "it's unfair, I want them!" They are rare. They remain rare. Any player who's roleplaying would probably read the prof description and not pick them, just like they probably wouldn't select the feralan kit. Normally I don't care about the powergaming stuff (after all it's Tweaks ), but this is one of the few content components of the mod.

A wandering trainer coming to Candlekeep, wanting to visit a big library, wanting to visit it enough that (s)he has 10k gold or the rare book to enter, wanting to stay long enough to meet you, having met you deciding to train you (afer all, wandering masters that just spent 10k gold to visit a library would definitely want to spend all their time with an untrained stableboy), and having decided to train you can stay long enough to actually make you proficient (much less multiple pips) is just a bit of a stretch.

Play Lost Items instead. There's a katana right there in Candlekeep for you.

[Miloch]

A wandering trainer coming to Candlekeep, wanting to visit a big library, wanting to visit it enough that (s)he has 10k gold or the rare book to enter, wanting to stay long enough to meet you, having met you deciding to train you (afer all, wandering masters that just spent 10k gold to visit a library would definitely want to spend all their time with an untrained stableboy), and having decided to train you can stay long enough to actually make you proficient (much less multiple pips) is just a bit of a stretch.

Sounds perfectly plausible to me.  Candlekeep has basically a Great Library so it'd be sought out by folks from afar.  And I'm sure they could be carrying books considered rare enough on the Sword Coast (though perhaps fairly common to the visitors) to let them in.  Moreover, the PC's heritage isn't exactly that big of a secret.  Some clandestine foreign organisation could have found it out by means of divination, revelation, espionage or any number of means.  Hence it sends an agent to help prepare/defend the PC, just as other organisations are sending agents to assassinate the PC.  But, the agent gets whacked by the other team unfortunately.  (Kind of like Connery crossing several countries to prepare the Highlander because he knows the Kurgan is out there, although the Kurgan takes Connery's head.)

But... I'm not arguing for redundant inclusion of more exotic weapons in Tweaks... I'm just saying it's a plausible scenario.

@Ascension64: Urk.  I was trying to avoid actually looking at the mod's code, lest I be tempted to drop a gigantic nerf bomb upon it.  Though this one would be fairly easy to add an optional nerf to, as opposed to some other mods (DSotSC anyone?).  And I guess these items are still relatively rare, considering all the regular swords and other weapons out there.

[Bursk]

Hold on, having access to a non-magical wakazashi or katana early on in the game is powergaming?  Don't you think it's a little harsh that a player can choose a weapon proficiency that they then aren't able to use?  What's the point in offering the proficiency during character creation if it's useless?  Why not just remove it from the game, after all 'how did you have access to them in Candlekeep and managed to become proficient with them anyway?'.  But isn't it possible that a culture-heavy place like Candlekeep would have a few of these exotic weapons?  I'm not suggesting that someone in Candlekeep would be selling these things, but maybe your PC took an interest in the exotic and was granted persmission to practice with one of them.

There's been no valid reason presented so far other than "it's unfair, I want them!" They are rare. They remain rare. Any player who's roleplaying would probably read the prof description and not pick them, just like they probably wouldn't select the feralan kit. Normally I don't care about the powergaming stuff (after all it's Tweaks ), but this is one of the few content components of the mod.

A wandering trainer coming to Candlekeep, wanting to visit a big library, wanting to visit it enough that (s)he has 10k gold or the rare book to enter, wanting to stay long enough to meet you, having met you deciding to train you (afer all, wandering masters that just spent 10k gold to visit a library would definitely want to spend all their time with an untrained stableboy), and having decided to train you can stay long enough to actually make you proficient (much less multiple pips) is just a bit of a stretch.

Play Lost Items instead. There's a katana right there in Candlekeep for you.

I thought I'd managed to explain myself well enough, but I guess not.

Firstly, I don't understand how being able to use a particular non-magical weapon is powergaming.  Perhaps you could shed some light on this for me.

Secondly, it's not a case of "it's unfair, I want them!".  What I do want is for someone, anyone, to be able to start a new game, create any kind of character they want, and then not be like 'WTF?  What's the point in being able to choose a weapon proficiency if there aren't any weapons of this type to use'.  Just because they are rare doesn't mean that there shouldn't be one, just one FFS, until much later in the game.  This is all I'm trying to say.  Belive me, I understand what you're saying, I just wish that I could get my points across more effectively.

Regarding someone training you in exotic weapons, I was thinking more along the lines of a visitor donating one or more of these weapons to Candlekeep, and then one of the trainers there, who can train people in more than one weapon type and has used exotics in the past (maybe he's well-travelled or something), helping you learn how to use it after you express a keen interest.  I don't see how that's such a stretch.

Edited for typos.

[Bursk]

*a helpful list*

Thanks for that.

Is it possible to comment out certain entries from the list?  The reason I prefer the look of Exotic Items is because I think it's much more balanced, and I'm not a powergamer.  I may still want to use some of the items added by Lost Items, but I'd really like stuff such as Gorion's entry removed from my game.  Gorion's entry being just one example, I'm sure I'd also remove a lot of the others.

Edit: To further expand on my above question, now that I've had a look at the tp2, can I edit it to change the items the NPCs have without causing any errors e.g. for Beyn, change REPLACE_CRE_ITEM ~BRAC14~ to REPLACE_CRE_ITEM ~BRAC13~ to give him Bracers of Defense AC 5 instead of Bracers of Defense AC 4? Also, let's say I want Beyn to only have the Poisoned Throwing Dagger and Bracers of Defense, could I comment out the flail +2 entry e.g. by doing this:

//REPLACE_CRE_ITEM ~BLUN13~ #0 #0 #0 ~NONE~ ~WEAPON1~ EQUIP //was _HAMM01 redundant

Further edit:  Would it also be possible for me to completely change the item a NPC gets?  For example, Jardak's Long Sword +1 is replaced by a Katana +2 (lordy!), but if I instead wanted him to have a normal katana, could I just change:

REPLACE_CRE_ITEM ~SW1H55~ #0 #0 #0 ~NONE~ ~WEAPON1~ EQUIP //was _SW1H05

to

REPLACE_CRE_ITEM ~SW1H43~ #0 #0 #0 ~NONE~ ~WEAPON1~ EQUIP //was _SW1H05

And if I were to do such a thing, would it make the NPC automatically proficient in the new weapon (I'm curious as to how the mod deals with this already)?