Author Topic: double crossing renal/mae'var  (Read 2544 times)

BenchBreaker

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double crossing renal/mae'var
« on: September 10, 2006, 03:47:05 PM »
ok, i just toyed around with the renal/mae'var plot trying to double cross them both. this is what i found

after i killed the thief in sea bounty's i didn't immediately tell mae'var about renal, so he told me to speak to edwin, this way i got the key from edwin that allow me to take the evidence of mae'var's betryal (if you tell mae'var about renal straight away then edwin won't join you until you framed renal so you won't get the key until it's too late)

then i went downstairs to get mae'var's betryal letter and then tell mae'var about renal, thus recieving the forged document. after which i head out to renal's to plant the forged letter and give renal mae'var's betryal letter (good xp). when renal asked me to to take out mae'var, i declined.

i went back to tell mae'var that the forged letter has been planted (more good xp). went back to renal's to see that he's been replaced. told the new leader about mae'var framed renal but the thieves didn't attack me (i was a bit suprised) but when i went back to mae'var's every one turned hostile, i was thinking great finally i get to kill someone but then the dreaded ASSASIN OF DOOM Arkanis Gath showed up and slaughtered my party.

later i realised if i shut my mouth about mae'var framing renal then nothing would happen to mae'var and they won't attack me. this is wierd since i already handed renal the evidence. shouldn't they both be killed and i get both guilds? that would be great

Offline SimDing0™

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Re: double crossing renal/mae'var
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2006, 06:47:53 PM »
What you're seeing is expected behaviour. Larell is working with Mae'Var, so telling him how you framed Renal won't get you anywhere. Once Mae'Var/Larell run both guilds, they're treated the same way Renal used to be in game terms, so attacking them turns Aran hostile and gets you killed if you're still in chapter 2.

This is, of course, until chapter 6, when it all plays out a little more meaningfully.

Jarno

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Re: double crossing renal/mae'var
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2006, 02:36:07 PM »
Noticed the thread calling for critisism, so here goes a little rant. :)

Relating to the mae'var addition:

Just tried taking the double crossing renal path, and I've got to say that I'm a bit disappointed. First, after playing a number of games with a good party, I'm now playing an evil party, and I assume this option is intended as the "evil path". Which I thought nice, since the game very much focuses on the good path, and playing evil means getting the short end of the stick a lot. (For example, why would an evil character do the Circus tent quest? No promise of reward, and it's somebody else's problem.) 

From a role-playing perspective, I couldn't figure out ANY reason, for anyone, evil or good, to side with Mae'Var - when you suggest to Mae'Var that you were thinking of perhaps making a deal with him, the deal seem to be that you do all the work, and get nothing for it! Why would an evil char agree to such "altruism"? I think the point of an agreement is that both sides get something... It is illogical that Mae'Var should rather attack me than pay up, since as he says, I have the confidence of Renal, and so he can use me to plant evidence - a rather important function!

Mae'Var doesn't seem to me to be an idiot, though he is very selfish and evil; wouldn't he rather part with some gold and get rid of a a threat to his position in the guild, than kill the "goose that lays golden eggs"? Isn't getting rid of Renal, and gaining a strong position in the guild much more important than insisting on getting the task done for no reward? And surely Mae'Var has allies too - how did he manage to get in that position, if he consistently refuses any reward for helping him? In other words, Mae'Var refusing the promised reward once was believable - since he didn't need you anymore, but certainly wasn't believable the second time, when the player has given him a crucial piece of information, AND has proven to be of continuing, rather crucial, use.

It seems to me that what looked like a promissing evil path, just ends up screwing the evil party out of a significant gold reward. As if the game wasn't biased on the good side enough already. Whoopee.

It would have been good (or evil ;) ), if, finding that Mae'Var isn't willing to reward you, you could at least screw over Mae'Var in return... and gain some profit while doing it!

Looking at other threads, it seems that the evil char won't succeed in selling Risa to slavery either... which leads me to ask - is there anything of actual benefit in the mod for a party taking the evil path? Or do all evil paths end up with the char getting frustrated with nothing to show for his efforts? :(

I want to avoid reloading too much, after events that don't go to plan, so I'll continue on after having betrayed Renal, with empty pockets, forgoing the significant reward (+ the loot!) you get for the "good" path. But the whole thing did leave me a bit  >:(

Offline SimDing0™

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Re: double crossing renal/mae'var
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2006, 02:59:18 PM »
Okay, thanks for the comments. I'm swayed, and I'll try to work some more significant motivation into the betrayal for the next version. (Do note that the material rewards will become more appealing when the path continues in chapter 6.)

Regarding your question about the overall benefit of evil: Yes, there are benefits of playing an evil character. Potion Quest is an excellent example. On the other hand, my inclination is more towards rewards in terms of expanded story and character than material, and real life should indicate that acting in an evil manner is, in fact, fairly difficult. Both of these are contibuting factors to the absence of huge amounts of powerful loot that you might expect.

Jarno

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Re: double crossing renal/mae'var
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2006, 06:22:44 PM »
Thanks! :)

I agree that the evil path should not be easy, but I think that perhaps better than to withold big rewards may be to have them come with strings attached... in other words, to have evil actions result in tough consequences; for example, gaining enemies who might find ways to try and get back at you. Not getting rewards makes for frustrating playing, while getting big rewards that put you in difficult situations makes life interesting...

For example, the Valen mod gives the evil party an option of accepting a VERY powerful ally, but with the downside that she'll do pretty much what she likes (meaning kills everyone she doesn't like), and will drag your reputation  right down to levels that are difficult to manage; if not earlier, then at least when she eventually gets hunted by a group of very powerful vampire hunters who'll cost you -2 rep per person when you kill them... The valen mod is still overpowered, methinks, but the idea is sound, I think: evil gaining in power or wealth, but paying through the nose... :)


 

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