Author Topic: Stoned  (Read 50496 times)

Offline Alarielle

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #75 on: January 11, 2006, 01:57:13 PM »
@Alarielle
   Some people say it cures brains, sometimes. I'm trying to imagine the world we would be living in, had there been no '60s, hmm... Not that I lived in one before 1976 though

Cures brains?  As in the having of one?  People who say that are invariably smokers themselves, rationalising :)
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Offline Joe

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #76 on: January 11, 2006, 02:01:31 PM »
Super-size actually varied from country to country; for example, the British super-size was the equivalent of the American large :).

Yes, I know this. But it is stupid to criticize fast food businesses for selling unhealthy food in large quantities just because people are willing to buy it that way.

If we want to get obesity in control, start with the schools. Throw out the soda machines and discontinue serving unhealthy food frequently. Stress dietary practices and personal exercise in PE instead of just gauging how many sit-ups a person can do.

Offline Jon

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #77 on: January 11, 2006, 03:50:59 PM »
Quote
And before anyone says "but it's better for you than tobacco", as far as tar content goes, one joint is the equivalent of smoking 40 cigarrettes.

Every time I hear this I want to stick a burning cigarette in someones eyeball. That is a bullshit figure.

All people roll all sorts of sized joiints. Short and fat. Long and fat. Really long and a little fat. Short and skinny. How long is long? How skinny is skinny? You won't see any of those important details in those bullshit quotes :)

Eating a bowl of cereal is the equivelant of eating steak.
Pasta is fattening.
Etc, etc.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #78 on: January 11, 2006, 04:18:05 PM »
Hey, whoever said that moderation thing rocks.  Some weed, some vegan cookies, some cigars, some booze, some sit-ups, some pasta, some tattooing, some cycling, some salad with some dressing, some hiking, some vegetating in front of a computer screen, and you've got yourself one hell of a decent standard of living.  At least that's what I tell myself.  Oh, and add more pasta, because carbs are delicious.
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Offline Alarielle

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #79 on: January 11, 2006, 04:20:11 PM »
Quote
And before anyone says "but it's better for you than tobacco", as far as tar content goes, one joint is the equivalent of smoking 40 cigarrettes.

Every time I hear this I want to stick a burning cigarette in someones eyeball. That is a bullshit figure.

All people roll all sorts of sized joiints. Short and fat. Long and fat. Really long and a little fat. Short and skinny. How long is long? How skinny is skinny? You won't see any of those important details in those bullshit quotes :)

Eating a bowl of cereal is the equivelant of eating steak.
Pasta is fattening.
Etc, etc.

Ok, it was badly phrased.  Ounce for ounce, an amount of cannabis is 40 times as tar rich as the same quantity of tobacco.  Happy? :)
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Offline Discord

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #80 on: January 11, 2006, 04:38:16 PM »
40:1? I'd like to see your source for that figure. Not because I don't belive you, but because I've heard so many similar statistics... five to one, ten to one, 20 to one... and now 40 to one. It all depends on how biased your researcher is or how uninformed the writer of the article. According to a study done at Berkley in the late 70s, marijuana contains one and a half times the carcinogens that tobacco does. And then, if you add in Jon's point about the amount of pot in a joint compared with tobacco in a cigarette, and also take into account that the average pot smoker will smoke pot maybe three times a week wheras an average smoker might smoke half a pack to a pack a day... the cancer argument really doesn't hold water. Not one case of cancer has ever been proven to have been caused by cannabis.

Another anti-pot argument that is pretty common - "I know someone/heard of someone/ read an article about someone who was a healthy, happy, productive member of society until they sampled the evil MARIJUANA and now they are crazed, burned out dope fiends with no life and a low sperm count!!!"

So let me tell you my counter story... when I first moved to the states from Canada in freshman year, I was really depressed. I hadn't made any friends, I hated my school, etc etc... all that angsty teenager stuff. My grades were at around a 2.5 GPA. Towards the end of sophomore year, I started smoking pot (well, started regularly smoking pot, anyway... about twice a week. Before that it was like once every six months or something) Lo and behold, if you look at my eleventh grade transcripts, my grades jumped to a 3.8!! I've maintained that standard all through Junior and senior year. Therefore, you can logically deduce that smoking pot helps grades.

Umm... no.

What really happened is I made some friends, (some of whom through my smoking buddies, as a matter of fact. So in that sense, I guess pot does help) switched to a much cooler school, got involved in theatre and generally became a happier person. That reflects on my grades. Cause and effect are much more complicated than pot=bad. Just because you selectively choose what facts about a case to tell, doesn't mean a thing about the larger picture. So your friend smoked pot and had a hard life? His personality didn't have anything to do with that, did it? Nah...

I'm just warming up. I can keep the pro-pot arguments coming for another hour or so.
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Offline Grim Squeaker

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2006, 04:43:13 PM »
Quote
Not one case of cancer has ever been proven to have been caused by cannabis.

Do you mean lung cancer?  If so, surely that can't be true.  If you mean cancer in general, see throat and tongue cancer.  Cannabis can and has caused many cases of that.
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Offline Discord

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2006, 04:45:40 PM »
I have always wondered why people start smoking - smoke smells bad, it gives you cancer, and nicotine withdrawal is an absolut bastard of a process. So umm, why start? What is the purpose of the activity? To make your breath smell bad and stain your teeth? It's not like it tastes good.

That depends on your opinion. I really enjoy cigarrette smoke. I do it in moderation because it is so bad for you (my moderation = two or three times a month, tops) It calms you down, gives you a light buzz, and feels pleasant in your mouth and lungs. If you don't like it, don't do it. More power to you.
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Offline Discord

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #83 on: January 11, 2006, 04:47:02 PM »
I have yet to find a credible source reporting on a proven cancer case caused by marijuana. Feel free to prove me wrong.
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Offline Dark Raven

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #84 on: January 11, 2006, 04:55:41 PM »
Live fast, die young.
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Offline Jon

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #85 on: January 11, 2006, 04:56:21 PM »
Lezz:   :) :)

Alarielle: No, you're still wrong :-\
Quote
Ok, it was badly phrased.  Ounce for ounce, an amount of cannabis is 40 times as tar rich as the same quantity of tobacco.  Happy? Smiley

Firstly, there are an unlimited amount of statements like that, just with different numbers. I've seen 60, 25, 20, 15, and zero. Oh, and forty. I've rarely seen 60, but I've still seen it, so I just thought I would lay it out.

I only ever see 40 (the highest, except of course sixty, which is incredibly rare, I think) from major anti-drug fanatics; health class, posters on school walls, basically anything school-related, and all of the cheesy sites that preach for page after page (all the while trying desperately to relate to the latest trends of 13-17 year olds) about how terrible drugs are no matter how you look at it.

I mainly hear zero from extreme druggies who if ever told me that it's raining outside, I'd have to go look out a window.

Anyway, my point is it's a crap quote, though if you (or anyone, really) can find any reliable proof about that quote, I'd really be interested is checking that out.

In any cancer arguments: everyone should bear in mind that smoking anything at all is bad for you and can cause cancer, decrease lung capacity, the whole shabang. Marijuana may be worse, I don't know. But everyone knows cigarettes are really bad.. I still can't get my head around how many people smoke those things.
Well, I can, but all of the reasons I've heard are very stupid and do not at all balance out the negative effects.
Except one old friend, whose reason was "I don't know, I just like it."  And I know she didn't do it because of her friends or any of that crap so I respect her decision very much. She knows what it does but just does it anyway.   I.. Just don't see it.
It's sad watching her slowly wither away.
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I suggest everyone buy a puppy."

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Offline Alarielle

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2006, 05:06:44 PM »
Jon:

I'm not going to argue with you, because, surprisingly enough, I do not have the resources at my disposal to test this theory.  I'm just going by information that my pathology/biochemistry/oncology lecturers provide me with, along with that of my medical textbooks.  If it's incorrect, then fine.

I'm not denying that there are minor medical benefits from taking the drug, I'm merely pointing out that there are a lot of dangers as well. :)
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Offline Jon

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #87 on: January 11, 2006, 05:13:22 PM »
Yeah, there are some dangers. That's (a small reason) why I don't smoke it. And I get really paranoid at the first worried though, which many never come at all, or just seconds after my third or fourth hit.
In a crowded room, I'm the guy who's always higher than everyone else. Always.
Though when I did smoke (and if I ever partake in the wonderful company of good ol' Mary Jane again) I prefered to smoke alone, or with one other person. Maybe two. But that's not terribly important.

Quote
I'm not going to argue with you, because, surprisingly enough, I do not have the resources at my disposal to test this theory.  I'm just going by information that my pathology/biochemistry/oncology lecturers provide me with, along with that of my medical textbooks.  If it's incorrect, then fine.

Yeah, that's just what I was talking about. You can only expect biased information from schools.
Hopefully not from all schools.. But you know what I mean.


Alarielle, I want you to know that I immensely enjoyed having this completely friendly and productive conversation with you.
Isn't it nice when two people of opposing standpoints can converse with eachother without anger, hate, and violence?
 :-*
"Puppies do not cause cancer.  Puppies are more fun than weed.
I suggest everyone buy a puppy."

So sayeth the wise Icelus.

Offline icelus

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #88 on: January 11, 2006, 05:14:42 PM »
Alarielle, I want you to know that I immensely enjoyed having this completely friendly and productive conversation with you.
Isn't it nice when two people of opposing standpoints can converse with eachother without anger, hate, and violence?
 :-*
You obviously didn't read her diary, then.  :)
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Offline Jon

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #89 on: January 11, 2006, 05:16:09 PM »
Diary..?
"Puppies do not cause cancer.  Puppies are more fun than weed.
I suggest everyone buy a puppy."

So sayeth the wise Icelus.

Offline Grim Squeaker

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #90 on: January 11, 2006, 05:17:58 PM »
Quote
I'm not going to argue with you, because, surprisingly enough, I do not have the resources at my disposal to test this theory.  I'm just going by information that my pathology/biochemistry/oncology lecturers provide me with, along with that of my medical textbooks.  If it's incorrect, then fine.

Yeah, that's just what I was talking about. You can only expect biased information from schools.
Hopefully not from all schools.. But you know what I mean.

They don't tend to lie to you at medical school or you'd end up as a really shit doctor.
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Offline Jon

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #91 on: January 11, 2006, 05:19:26 PM »
Medical school?
I just automatically assumed highschool or something..  Uh.. :-[
My bad ???
"Puppies do not cause cancer.  Puppies are more fun than weed.
I suggest everyone buy a puppy."

So sayeth the wise Icelus.

Offline Alarielle

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2006, 05:20:33 PM »

Yeah, that's just what I was talking about. You can only expect biased information from schools.
Hopefully not from all schools.. But you know what I mean.

Uh, you don't get biased information at medical school. :)  That would make the treatment of patients somewhat difficult, working with invented facts.

Quote
Alarielle, I want you to know that I immensely enjoyed having this completely friendly and productive conversation with you.
Isn't it nice when two people of opposing standpoints can converse with eachother without anger, hate, and violence?

Um... are you being sarcastic?  Because I'm not angry, hateful and I'm pretty sure I haven't stabbed you :)  I hope you're not being sarcastic, because it would be nice to believe that one can actually have a discussion in EFCB without it turning into some kind of argument.


Edit: oh, people posted while I was writing this, so it might be a bit pointless :P
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Andyr: It's the 'cool, kinky' dirty as opposed to the 'take a bath you fucking messy fuck' dirty :)

Offline Jon

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #93 on: January 11, 2006, 05:28:50 PM »
No, I wasn't being sarcastic. Nothing but humble honesty there, and my sad attempt at a bit of humour.
"Puppies do not cause cancer.  Puppies are more fun than weed.
I suggest everyone buy a puppy."

So sayeth the wise Icelus.

Offline Alarielle

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #94 on: January 11, 2006, 05:30:34 PM »
Ok, then good :)  Wasn't sure, but it's pretty late here, so the brain is starting to shut down. ;)
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Offline Jon

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #95 on: January 11, 2006, 05:31:48 PM »
Even with the brain fully awake, I can still see why you'd wonder wether or not I was being sarcastic.

Twisted times, these are.
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I suggest everyone buy a puppy."

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Offline Dark Raven

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #96 on: January 11, 2006, 05:32:42 PM »
Alarielle, I want you to know that I immensely enjoyed having this completely friendly and productive conversation with you.
Isn't it nice when two people of opposing standpoints can converse with eachother without anger, hate, and violence?
 :-*
You obviously didn't read her diary, then. :)
Diary of a madwomen. ;)
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Offline Discord

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #97 on: January 11, 2006, 05:34:58 PM »
Okay, lets play another round of "anti-stoner logic games". (I am having so much fun here)

"People who smoke pot are brainless jerks. I know all these people who smoke pot, and they're useless potheads who irritate me. Therefore, pot smoking makes people act like jerks."

Well, I know a couple of girls who eat potatoes. Love the damn things. And they eat potatoes all the time. Like, we're talking serious spud-o-philes here. And I don't like them (the girls, not the potatoes). They are irritating. All they want to talk about is potatoes. Therefore, potatoes make people act like jerks.

Damn you, potatoes!

You see how that doesn't work? This country hates the potheads so much that they demonize them for making their own choices. Are we hurting anybody? No! So what exactly makes us so evil?

The following were all taken from this thread:
"Smoking weed is for people who are boring."
"Drugs have ruined the lives of countless people and affect more than those who stupidly choose to take the drugs."
"I'm hoping to get back to you with my research later today, but these damn drug addicts are everywhere."
"If you don't see the difference, well...maybe you should stop smoking so much dope"

This is nothing compared with the rest of the bull that pot smokers have to put up with from straight edges. Here's the thing: marijuana is a pastime, no different from any other pastime. Its a fun, social thing to do, sitting around with your buddies and rolling a joint. Some people really like it. Some people don't. Some people are afraid of the health problems (which, few and mild though they may be, still exist) Some people get freaked out at the idea of losing control. All of these are OK! You don't hear stoners saying that all straight edges are uptight whiners, do you? Well, why  is it okay for straight edges to call stoners lazy useless bums? To each his own, I say. Who am I hurting by sitting around on my back deck with my brother and smoking a joint while I stare at the stars? Hm?

This is the extent to which the government and health teachers have twisted and moulded the minds of young people until they all think the same. Four legs good, two legs bad. Nothing is black and white. All stoners aren't useless screwups, and all straight edges aren't perfect, upstanding citizens.

Do you like roller coasters? Sex? Massages? Why? Because they give you a pleasant or exhiliarating sensation. There is nothing about preferring the sensation of these mainstream pastimes that makes you morally superior to me for enjoying the sensation of marijuana.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2006, 05:47:55 PM by Lezz »
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Offline Alarielle

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #98 on: January 11, 2006, 05:40:20 PM »
"Cures brains?  As in the having of one?  People who say that are invariably smokers themselves, rationalising"

This is nothing compared with the rest of the bull that pot smokers have to put up with from straight edges. Here's the thing: marijuana is a pastime, no different from any other pastime. Its a fun, social thing to do, sitting around with your buddies and rolling a joint. Some people really like it. Some people don't. Some people are afraid of the health problems (which, few and mild though they may be, still exist) Some people get freaked out at the idea of losing control. All of these are OK! You don't hear stoners saying that all straight edges are uptight whiners, do you? Well, why  is it okay for straight edges to call stoners lazy useless bums? To each his own, I say. Who am I hurting by sitting around on my back deck with my brother and smoking a joint while I stare at the stars? Hm?

This is the extent to which the government and health teachers have twisted and moulded the minds of young people until they all think the same. Four legs good, two legs bad. Nothing is black and white. All stoners aren't useless screwups, and all straight edges aren't perfect, upstanding citizens.

Do you like roller coasters? Sex? Massages? Why? Because they give you a pleasant or exhiliarating sensation. There is nothing about preferring the sensation of these mainstream pastimes that makes you morally superior to me for enjoying the sensation of marijuana.

Can I just ask that you don't use my comment to illustrate your point?  I never said that anyone who chooses to smoke cannabis is useless, a screwup or any of the other things you picked upon and nor do I believe that.  I have a problem with the drug and what it does to people, not the people themselves. :)

Thanks.
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Andyr: It's the 'cool, kinky' dirty as opposed to the 'take a bath you fucking messy fuck' dirty :)

Offline Discord

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #99 on: January 11, 2006, 05:45:42 PM »
It was clearly implied. You said that those who smoke marijuana don't have brains, and that those who believe it has good affects are just "invariably smokers themselves, rationalising". Why should we need to rationalize what we do, unless we are rationalizing our own flaws?

I will take the comment down, if you like, but my point still stands.
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