Author Topic: Stoned  (Read 50494 times)

Offline Jon

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #100 on: January 11, 2006, 05:55:02 PM »
The point is what's important. Let's not start a fight.. Please? :)

Lezz, I agree with you. You would have had one hell of a time in my health class last semester ::)

We talked a bit about marijuana for a little less than a week, maybe a week, and these kids..   Well, I'm sure we all can figure it out. Even when we were discussing any other drug.

And, to my slight misfortune, I know a lot more about drugs than they do. What they fail to realize is, they're all morons. That's about as  simple (and as kind) as it can be put. And not just in reagards to drugs.
Anyway, if knowledge could be represented with numbers, these kids would be at about -3, -4. Some exceptionally bright ones may be at -2, and the really specialy ones may even be able to pull a -1 out of their ass.

Anyway, in reards to the drugs we covered (and other "bad" things)m I'm about a five or six - all of this out of ten.

So, they assumed I am both a teen-age mastermind, and an extreme drug addict. I guess knowing a bit about what marijuana does to you, knowing about date rape, coke, meth, etc makes you a regular (ab)user of the drugs.     Except date rape which isn't a drug. Obiously.

This was kind of a pointless post.. 
"Puppies do not cause cancer.  Puppies are more fun than weed.
I suggest everyone buy a puppy."

So sayeth the wise Icelus.

Offline Alarielle

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #101 on: January 11, 2006, 05:55:50 PM »
The clear implication you're seeing was actually just a play on Lu's omission in her original post, where she said "cures brains" without qualifying her statement with some kind of ailment.  I found this amusing and decided to throw in a suggestion.  If you found this offensive, I'm sorry, it wasn't intended to be.
Regarding rationalisation, I don't think the last sentence was unfair because it's generally true.  Smokers, drinkers - in fact anyone who indulges in some kind of potentially unhealthy activity - often feel the need to make a point of the better aspects of said activity.  I'm not saying this is a bad thing.  Ok? :)
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Offline Discord

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #102 on: January 11, 2006, 06:00:50 PM »
Fair enough. I might have read it differently than you intended it to be read.
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Offline Drew

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #103 on: January 11, 2006, 06:29:51 PM »
Excerpted from The national institute of health:

A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers(9). Many of the extra sick days among the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.

In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke(14). It also produces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into their carcinogenic form—levels that may accelerate the changes that ultimately produce malignant cells(15). Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which increases the lungs’ exposure to carcinogenic smoke. These facts suggest that, puff for puff, smoking marijuana may increase the risk of cancer more than smoking tobacco.


Excerpted from the DEA.

There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.

I was, however, unable to find anything which corroborates or disagrees with this from the NIH.  The information I was able to gather from the NIH is certainly good enough, though.  The argument that marijuana is healthier than cigarettes appears to be out of step with current research.
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Offline Jon

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #104 on: January 11, 2006, 06:40:22 PM »
You got me there.  I stand corrected.
That's actually some pretty interesting information.

This just isn't my day..
"Puppies do not cause cancer.  Puppies are more fun than weed.
I suggest everyone buy a puppy."

So sayeth the wise Icelus.

Offline Imrahil

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #105 on: January 11, 2006, 06:42:31 PM »
The following were all taken from this thread:
...
"I'm hoping to get back to you with my research later today, but these damn drug addicts are everywhere."

I agree with Alarielle about you needing to get your tongue-in-cheek detector checked.  I quoted da_venom's post which said "but you only look at the drug addicts. those are easy too target cause they are everywhere."  My only real objection was to the "if you haven't tried it you can't possibly say it's bad" line of reasoning.

- Imrahil

Offline Dark Raven

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #106 on: January 11, 2006, 06:43:34 PM »
Dudes you're like ruining my buzz with all of this stuff.
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Offline Bex

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #107 on: January 11, 2006, 07:12:55 PM »
I'd just like to throw in here that the proportion of carcinogens like tar in marijuana as opposed to tobacco probably depends somewhat on how it was grown. Just a thought, but I know that other plants contain different amounts of chemicals based on soil, water, light conditions, and their original genetic makeup, so it does make sense.
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Offline Discord

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #108 on: January 11, 2006, 07:20:01 PM »
Excerpted from The national institute of health:


In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke(14). It also produces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into their carcinogenic form—levels that may accelerate the changes that ultimately produce malignant cells(15). Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which increases the lungs’ exposure to carcinogenic smoke. These facts suggest that, puff for puff, smoking marijuana may increase the risk of cancer more than smoking tobacco.


You don't take even a third as many "puffs" when you smoke marijuana regularly as when you smoke cigarettes regularly (by my estimation). This is pretty much what I was saying before. Marijuana does contain more carcinogens in equal amounts with tobacco, but since you don't take equal amounts of Marijuana as you do cigarettes, the point is moot.
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Offline Eral

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #109 on: January 11, 2006, 08:00:22 PM »
Lezz, I discussed my friend who has been adversely affected by his marijuana use not to illustrate that all drugs are bad, but to suggest that addictions- especially long-term ones - can have a negative effect on you. There is information to suggest dope increases feelings of depression and paranoia - he is one illustrative case. Obviously not everyone experiences these effects to such a degree. Same as people were adversely affected by Prozac, while others benefited. My point is addiction makes it harder to gauge if your life is going down the toilet. This is a discussion of personal experiences, not a diatribe against users.

Thanks for describing why you like smoking - it was an honest question, not a "I can't believe people are so stupid" put-down. I smoked for a month when I was very young, teenage rebellion, but I didn't get it. It just wasn't that enjoyable to me. I have asked Mr.FPS but he describes what appear to be the effects of nicotine, not smoke.
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Offline Drew

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #110 on: January 11, 2006, 08:20:50 PM »
Excerpted from The national institute of health:


In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke(14). It also produces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into their carcinogenic form—levels that may accelerate the changes that ultimately produce malignant cells(15). Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which increases the lungs’ exposure to carcinogenic smoke. These facts suggest that, puff for puff, smoking marijuana may increase the risk of cancer more than smoking tobacco.


You don't take even a third as many "puffs" when you smoke marijuana regularly as when you smoke cigarettes regularly (by my estimation). This is pretty much what I was saying before. Marijuana does contain more carcinogens in equal amounts with tobacco, but since you don't take equal amounts of Marijuana as you do cigarettes, the point is moot.
You are more than welcome to take up that matter with the highly trained medical professionals at the National Institute of Health who I quoted verbatim.

Also, studies  have found that people who smoke 5 joints a week are doing just as badly as folks who smoke a pack a day.  I'm thinking it has something to do with the fact that you don't hold cigarette smoke in your lungs for 30 seconds before releasing it.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2006, 08:23:59 PM by Drew »
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Offline Dark Raven

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #111 on: January 11, 2006, 08:25:57 PM »
People should play it smart so they don't get addicted. You take something on a daily basis, you're going to get addicted to it. Stagger what you take so you don't get addicted to it. .
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Offline Drew

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #112 on: January 11, 2006, 08:27:47 PM »
Drug abuse is a habit.  If you regularly abuse drugs (even if the drug constantly changes) you run a high chance of becoming addicted.
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Offline Lu

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #113 on: January 11, 2006, 11:29:53 PM »
Quote
Drug abuse is a habit.  If you regularly abuse drugs (even if the drug constantly changes) you run a high chance of becoming addicted
  Drew, you're going off topic. We are talking pot here, not drugs

@Alarielle
Quote
Lu, it cures absolutely nothing
   It cures a lot, they just teach you crap in medical schools, i.e. government-loyal crap

Quote
Cures brains?  As in the having of one?  People who say that are invariably smokers themselves, rationalising
   As if say, Bob Marley had no other stuff to attend to but rationalize

Offline icelus

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #114 on: January 11, 2006, 11:35:15 PM »
@Alarielle
Quote
Lu, it cures absolutely nothing
   It cures a lot, they just teach you crap in medical schools, i.e. government-loyal crap
Wait... are you claiming that you know more than established medical schools and scientific societies?  I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just not going to be so arrogant as to claim that I know more than, you know, PhDs and such.
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Offline Lu

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #115 on: January 11, 2006, 11:47:34 PM »
  Alarielle isn't PhD, I take

Offline Lu

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #116 on: January 12, 2006, 12:11:45 AM »
  Save that a PhD in say, poetry may not know say, the multiplication table. And I know it, yes, sir!

Offline Drew

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #117 on: January 12, 2006, 12:22:04 AM »
Lu:  The president lied about Iraq.  But he isn't a doctor, and he doesn't get to set american medical policy  Organizations like the AMA and the NIH aren't lying when they say weed doesn't cure diseases.  If it really did such a thing, the medical community would embrace it.  Doctor's already prescribe Opiates and Amphetamines for certain conditions, so they would certainly embrace marijuana if it had any real medical use.   Marijuana has, in fact, been found to increase risk of certain cancers and other lung ailments.  I think you are being a bit unreasonable, here.
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #118 on: January 12, 2006, 12:33:21 AM »
No, but her lectureres probably are :P

Kindly name 5 diseases cured by Marijuana
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Offline Lu

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #119 on: January 12, 2006, 01:24:04 AM »
  Have you read it, guys?
Quote
40:1? I'd like to see your source for that figure. Not because I don't belive you, but because I've heard so many similar statistics... five to one, ten to one, 20 to one... and now 40 to one. It all depends on how biased your researcher is or how uninformed the writer of the article. According to a study done at Berkley in the late 70s, marijuana contains one and a half times the carcinogens that tobacco does
   Drew, Veloxyll, am I the only one who has to be reasonable or shut up? Of course not. So are Lezz and Jon, I take. All the others are allowed to talk whatever they want without being reasonable

Quote
Kindly name 5 diseases cured by Marijuana
  I'd rather shut up until I have my questions kindly (and reasonably) answered first

 PS. I only want to repeat that I'm not a pothead myself. May have even had more bottles of beer than reefers in my life
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Offline Grim Squeaker

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #120 on: January 12, 2006, 01:27:49 AM »
She's being taught over this and the next 4 years to be a doctor.  If they teach her stuff that's wrong she'll misdiagnose conditions and prescribe the wrong medication or other course of treatment.  It's utterly ridiculous to give her false information has she would just end up killing people.  The government and various media sources might lie or coverup information but a university training a doctor wouldn't.
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #121 on: January 12, 2006, 02:22:01 AM »
You are more than welcome to take up that matter with the highly trained medical professionals at the National Institute of Health who I quoted verbatim.

Also, studies  have found that people who smoke 5 joints a week are doing just as badly as folks who smoke a pack a day.  I'm thinking it has something to do with the fact that you don't hold cigarette smoke in your lungs for 30 seconds before releasing it.

I don't know whether it's the case in this instance, but the unfortunate thing is that a large proportion of studies of marijuana which produce negative results are funded by the tobacco industry...
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Offline Drew

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #122 on: January 12, 2006, 05:43:41 AM »
@Lu:  You are not the only person I have respectfully disagreed with in the thread.  Read through and you will see that I have repeatedly disagreed with both John and Lezz.  I'm not singling you out, here.  I'm singling out the idea you suggested which is not supportable by any of the currently  available research (of which there are mountains of data) or anyone within the medical community.  I'm sorry if this offends you.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2006, 10:02:46 AM by Drew »
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Offline Alarielle

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #123 on: January 12, 2006, 06:05:51 AM »
  Alarielle isn't PhD, I take

This is a fair point, and no I am not.  However, I think you might find it useful to know that no one gets a PhD from attending medical school.  I will graduate with an MBChB. :)



@Alarielle
Quote
Lu, it cures absolutely nothing
   It cures a lot, they just teach you crap in medical schools, i.e. government-loyal crap

Quote
Cures brains?  As in the having of one?  People who say that are invariably smokers themselves, rationalising
   As if say, Bob Marley had no other stuff to attend to but rationalize

Lu, honestly, it doesn't *cure* diseases.  You're really using the wrong word.  It may alleviate symptoms, but that's not the same as curing the cause. :)

And Bob Marley?  I really don't care about him, but yeah, he really should have been thinking more about sun protection factors than cannabis.
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Offline Lu

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Re: Stoned
« Reply #124 on: January 12, 2006, 07:16:53 AM »
Quote
However, I think you might find it useful to know that no one gets a PhD from attending medical school.  I will graduate with an MBChB
  I already knew that you'd graduate with MBChB, Alarielle. Can you guess why I mentioned PhD instead?

Quote
And Bob Marley?  I really don't care about him, but yeah, he really should have been thinking more about sun protection factors than cannabis
   I don't think I understand the joke. But why do you bring up his name, if you don't care?

 @Veloxyll
Quote
No, but her lectureres probably are
   Veloxyll, please, have I ever mentioned my lectureres? Speaking about smth, or in this case someone you have
 not the slightest idea who they are, or even if they exist, isn't such a good idea, OK?

   OK, I've lately learned that it's wiser to ignore new questions until I have mine answered, but I'll be silly, once again. Here are some diseases that can be cured, if cannabis is used properly
   hypertonia
   asthma
   what do they call the opposite of hypertonia, when blood pressure is always too low?
   stupidity

  Can be smth else, but I'm not much into medicine