Author Topic: The Catholic Church, Hitler, and other tidbits  (Read 917 times)

Offline Joe

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The Catholic Church, Hitler, and other tidbits
« on: December 27, 2005, 01:56:12 PM »
  I take you say folk, that Joe is Christian? I always thought that all those nazis/skinnheads/commies/whatever don't like Church. Not that I ever cared actually, what they think on this and that. Can someone enlighten me?

I am not a Nazi, a skinhead, or a Communist. I think the first two on the list would be less than thrilled with my choice of a girlfriend and, well, totalitarianism is shit. So that throws Communism out as well.

the pope did bless Hitler and Mussolini.

Do you have proof for this?

See Joe? You are giving all of us a bad name!

Shame on me for following the Bible and the Church's teachings. What in the hell kind of Catholic would do such a thing? Gosh!

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(Although there is not much to say in Pius XII's defence, didn't he just stay neutral? Please, tell me he didn't bless Hitler. I will have to add this to my list of reasons to be embarassed to be Catholic.)

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Pius XII's role during World War II has been a source of controversy. Critics accuse him of remaining silent towards the Holocaust and other Nazi crimes. Though the Pope actually did speak out...he did so in a careful manner. The main argument for this policy was twofold. First, public condemnation of Hitler and Nazism would have achieved little of practical benefit, given that his condemnation could effectively be censored and so unknown to German Catholics (who in any case had been told as early as the early 1930s by the German Roman Catholic hierarchy that Nazism and Catholicism were incompatible). Secondly, if Pius had condemned Nazism more aggressively, the result would have been reprisals within Germany and countries occupied by her, making the Church's efforts against Nazi policies at the parish level difficult. Indeed such a reprisal occurred, when the Dutch bishops protested against the deportation of the country's Jewish population. The occupants retaliated by singling out Jewish converts to the Church for deportation, the most notable example being Edith Stein. Accordingly, the Pope mostly concentrated on practical measures, such as hiding Jews in convents. Also an "underground railroad" of secret escape routes had been set up by prominent Catholics such as Monsignor Hugh O'Flaherty, who operated under the tacit, if not explicit, approval of Pope Pius XII (as portrayed in the 1983 TV-movie "The Scarlet And The Black"). During the war, the Pope was widely praised for making a principled stand. For example, Time Magazine credited Pius XII and the Catholic Church for "fighting totalitarianism more knowingly, devoutly, and authoritatively, and for a longer time, than any other organized power" (Time, 16 August 1943).

In an attempt to address some of this controversy, in 1999 the Vatican appointed the International Catholic-Jewish Historical Commission (ICJHC), a group comprised of three Jewish and three Catholic scholars to investigate the role of the Church during the Holocaust. In 2001, the ICJHC issued its preliminary finding, raising a number of questions about the way the Vatican dealt with the Holocaust, titled " The Vatican and the Holocaust: A Preliminary Report[3]". The Comission discovered documents making it clear that Pope was aware of widespread anti-Jewish persecution in 1941 and 1942, and they suspected that the Church may have been influenced in not helping Jewish immigration by the nuncio of Chile and the Papal representative to Bolivia, who complained about the "invasion of the Jews" to their countries, where they engaged in "dishonest dealings, violence, immorality, and even disrespect for religion." (Questions 7 and 12 of the ICJHC report) The ICJHC raised a list of 47 questions about the way the Church dealt with the Holocaust, requested documents that had not been publicly released in order to continue their work, and, not receiving permission, they disbanded in July of 2001.

.....

The Pope was widely praised by Jewish and Israeli leaders after the war, and upon his death...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pius_XII#World_War_II

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Pacelli was dismayed with the Nazi assumption of power and by August of 1933 he expressed to the British representative to the Holy See his disgust with “their persecution of the Jews, their proceedings against political opponents, the reign of terror to which the whole nation was subjected.” When it was stated that Germany now had a strong leader to deal with the communists, Archbishop Pacelli responded that the Nazis were infinitely worse.
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/piusxii_faqs.html

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Try to remember there are two types of people wearing the I AM A CHRISTIAN/CATHOLIC badge. One type actually tries to show respect for others. The other type appears to have been out of the room when we were all agreeing that tolerance and acceptance were the go.

I don't understand why so many "Christians" believe that being loving, caring, and recognizing the existence of evil, sin, and the truth of the Bible are mutually exclusive. That goes to many American Protestants as well as liberal "Christians".

Yes, of course we should be loving, of course we should forgive. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't recognize right and wrong or that we should just shut our mouths and accept that sin happens, saying, "Oh well! Love and forgive!"

Hitler was very religious, though he was the "I believe with all my heart in the teachings of Christ, but I don't always agree with the teachings of the church" sort of Christian

Do you have any evidence that Hilter's religiosity was anything more than a public lie? He was the ruler of a Christian nation, it would be natural for him to portray himself as a Christian.

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He attended a Catholic monastic school whilst growing up, and long before he began to experience megalomaniacal desires, it was his ambition to become a priest.

Out of curiousity, can you support this with evidence?

Hitler and the Nazis were very much anti-Catholic, and apparently Hitler had developed a plan to kidpan the pope and replace him with a pro-Nazi one.

Joseph Goebbels wrote this in his diary: "It's a dirty, low thing to do for the Catholic Church to continue its subversive activity in every way possible and now even to extend its propaganda to Protestant children evacuated from the regions threatened by air raids. Next to the Jews these politico-divines are about the most loathsome riffraff that we are still sheltering in the Reich. The time will come after the war for an over-all solution of this problem."



Offline jcompton

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Re: The Catholic Church, Hitler, and other tidbits
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2005, 01:59:31 PM »
http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/dir/Religion___Beliefs/
http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=nsdap

Please direct all further discussion of religion, Hitler, and religion and Hitler to the thousands of boards which exist specifically for that purpose.
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