Author Topic: Church closed for Christmas  (Read 19458 times)

Offline Borsook

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2005, 06:01:54 AM »
Andy is trying to revive the SimDing0 Modder Dating Service.
Seriously. Yes, seriously. Really, I'm serious here. Will send photos of my unsmiling face to all disbelievers. So, seriously I think the said revival may not be a bad idea. Really.

I don't believe you.
Nah, I'm sure you do. Nobody in their right mind would say anything that would put them in the risk of getting my photo...
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Offline Borsook

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2005, 06:04:21 AM »
I made my own religion :).
Yeah, we did that too, when I was studing, to be able to import various goods customs-tax free. But this country's officials are biased.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2005, 06:57:28 AM »
Not after seeing that person get in the exact type of trouble I'm describing for doing the exact same type of thing in several different threads......Just thought you'd like to know why it keeps happening to you.

What keeps happening to me, exactly?

Quote
Obviously I was wrong.  You know, but don't care.  And that's fine.  Some people like arguing.  Personally, I abhor it.

Oughtn't you stop, then?

The one god religions can burn in hell that they fear. How I despise christainanity and the hippocracy that they spew forth to the masses of the world. All they care about is filling their coffers with money from the brained washed people they preach to.

How so?

Offline Andyr

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2005, 07:10:11 AM »
You guys are nuts.  :)

If this life is my madness then I don't want to be sane.

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Offline Dark Raven

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2005, 07:13:49 AM »
Insanity is a form of genius.
Per me si va nella citta dolente.
Per me si va nell eterno dolore.
Per me si va tra la perduta gente...
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2005, 07:19:01 AM »
Sweeping generalisations are always false. ;)
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Offline melora

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2005, 07:22:50 AM »
Sweeping generalisations are always false. ;)

isn't that a sweeping generalization?   ;D
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Offline Dark Raven

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2005, 07:24:12 AM »
 :) Perception is in the eye of the beholder.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2005, 07:26:41 AM by Blood Raven »
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Offline Borsook

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2005, 07:24:36 AM »

Borsook: Go on, send a photo then. Bons can put it in the album.
Why nobody believes me? :'(
Anyway the point was that maybe the dating service should be revived. So...
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2005, 09:37:35 AM »
Sweeping generalisations are always false. ;)

isn't that a sweeping generalization?   ;D

... which was my point. ;)
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Offline Drew

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2005, 10:24:10 AM »
Oughtn't you stop, then?
I appologize if you misinterpreted my last post.  That's what I thought I was doing.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2005, 11:39:51 AM »
What keeps happening to me, exactly?
...

Oughtn't you stop, then?

Dude, stop being like Nightmare.

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The one god religions can burn in hell...

How so?

Although you should carry on in this instance.  Sheesh.
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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2005, 01:33:17 PM »
I made my own religion :).
Yeah, we did that too, when I was studing, to be able to import various goods customs-tax free. But this country's officials are biased.

Czy mógłbyś powiedzieć coś więcej na ten temat:>?
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Offline Borsook

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2005, 01:45:08 PM »
I made my own religion :).
Yeah, we did that too, when I was studing, to be able to import various goods customs-tax free. But this country's officials are biased.

Czy mógłbyś powiedzieć coś więcej na ten temat:>?
Kościoły w Polsce są zwolnione z cła od przedmiotów wykorzystywanych w obrządku. Żeby zarejestrować kościół trzeba mieć chyba 100 wyznawców. Co prawda katolitcy księża sprowadzają samochody na ten paragraf (że niby są im potrzebne do dojazdu do wiernych), ale jakiemuś małemy Kościołowi Żółtej Krowy mogą robić trudności.
PS. Moje informacje są z przed paru lat.
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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2005, 02:53:01 PM »
Oh.
Ja bym się raczej nie nadawał do takich interesów, moja religia jest jednoosobowa ;).
Stworzyłem ją, by dostaawać bonusy do statystyk od wiary ;).
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Offline Meddle.

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2005, 02:55:22 PM »
Heh  :)
chaos matters

Offline Eral

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2005, 02:58:02 PM »
Joe, don't return to your former bad habits. Making contentious statements and then arguing the toss about whether they're contentious is boring, futile and extremely annoying. Nope, don't say it. It would be very sad if we all had to ignore you forevah.

I may be repeating Sorrow and Borsook here but as I have no idea what they are saying, I will just carry on.
The one god religions can burn in hell that they fear. How I despise christianity and the hippocracy that they spew forth to the masses of the world. All they care about is filling their coffers with money from the brained washed people they preach to.
You know, it's interesting that despite the bad press organised religion has got -and deserved in the case of the Roman Catholic church (refusing the active participation of women, selling "get into heaven" cards, the Crusades, the Inquisitions, Galileo and everybody else, needing celibacy rules because too many children of popes and bishops were inheriting and draining off funds from the Church, persecution of people of other faiths, teaching self-hatred, repressing sexuality, denying intimacy to clerics, covering up the abuse that results from the previous three, making contraception a religious issue) there is a basic idea in it that still draws people.
No matter how much distance there is between the traditions of Christian churches and the teachings of Christ, no matter how ugly the face of the Church seems sometimes, people still come. The Church has sold religion as an opiate - obey and you will be saved, don't worry about starving in this life because Heaven is really nice - but that emphasis hasn't been used for 30? years. Perhaps because education has encouraged a lot more thinking to occur.
So, why do people have a religion?  Is it a need for ritual? A sense of sharing and sameness? Or are the basic ideas of a guide to what is right and attaining a sense of peace fundamentally important to people?
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Offline Kulyok

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #67 on: December 10, 2005, 03:03:51 PM »
I believe some people are drawn to the Catholic church just because of these reasons: its rigid structure and conservatism.

Offline jester

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #68 on: December 10, 2005, 03:11:27 PM »
@Joe's church and business argument:

http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/

If christians start to put their money where their mouth is, I would be more than delighted. Killing doctors just doesn't cut it with Jesus anymore. Not that it ever has.
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Offline CORVIS TERRIBLE MOUNTAIN GOD

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #69 on: December 10, 2005, 04:02:39 PM »
I'm not putting as much thought into this as I'd like, but I haven't got a lot of time right now.

You know, it's interesting that despite the bad press organised religion has got -and deserved in the case of the Roman Catholic church (refusing the active participation of women, selling "get into heaven" cards, the Crusades, the Inquisitions, Galileo and everybody else, needing celibacy rules because too many children of popes and bishops were inheriting and draining off funds from the Church, persecution of people of other faiths, teaching self-hatred, repressing sexuality, denying intimacy to clerics, covering up the abuse that results from the previous three, making contraception a religious issue) there is a basic idea in it that still draws people.

A lot of your criticisms of the Catholic church are valid and deserve to be addressed. A lot of thme aren't. Indulgences? Calileo? The Inquisition? The Crusades? These things happened a very, very long time ago, and while they stand as examples of How Things Can Go Wrong, they aren't valid reasons to hate the Church today. There are plenty of other good reasons for that, and you've outlined a few of them already.

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No matter how much distance there is between the traditions of Christian churches and the teachings of Christ, no matter how ugly the face of the Church seems sometimes, people still come. The Church has sold religion as an opiate - obey and you will be saved, don't worry about starving in this life because Heaven is really nice - but that emphasis hasn't been used for 30? years. Perhaps because education has encouraged a lot more thinking to occur.

You're ignoring two big things, here. First, the Church is still most powerful in developing nations where things really aren't that great. Second, religion has never been nothing but an Opiate For The Masses. Some of the finest and most powerful minds him human history have been religious and in fact motivated by religion. (You also seem to be using 'religion' as a synonym for 'Christianity', but we'll leave that alone for now.)

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So, why do people have a religion?  Is it a need for ritual? A sense of sharing and sameness? Or are the basic ideas of a guide to what is right and attaining a sense of peace fundamentally important to people?

Do you really think anyone here is qualified to answer that question? Religion has been around since before civilization. It's been around since before modern humans. As much as some people would like to think that we've outgrown it, I really don't see that ever happening.

As for Blood Raven's expressed distaste for religion, consider that she's made it a major goal in her life to be the biggest stereotypical mopey Goth she possibly can be. Examine her posts. Ask yourself how deeply she's likely to have thought about these issues or anything else for that matter. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Got it?

Yeah, that's what I thought.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2005, 04:05:53 PM by Corvis »

Offline Joe

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #70 on: December 10, 2005, 04:54:08 PM »
refusing the active participation of women

What are you talking about? Have never heard of nuns?

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selling "get into heaven" cards, the Crusades, the Inquisitions, Galileo and everybody else,

As Corvis said, this stuff happened quite a long time ago. It was terrible, yes. But hating the Church now doesn't reverse that ugly history.

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needing celibacy rules because too many children of popes and bishops were inheriting and draining off funds from the Church

The need for celibacy can be argued for with terms very different from that. And in any case, the Church does ordain married ministers who convert from other denominations. It's a matter of Church law, not doctrine, and could be changed. But I think celibacy is necessary.


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teaching self-hatred

Eh?

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repressing sexuality

...eh?

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denying intimacy to clerics

Clerics have intimacy with God and intimacy with the faithful.

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covering up the abuse that results from the previous three

What abuse are you speaking of?

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making contraception a religious issue

Contraception is not wrong simply because the Church said so. It is wrong for the same reason that masturbation and homosexual activities are wrong.

Offline CORVIS TERRIBLE MOUNTAIN GOD

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #71 on: December 10, 2005, 05:22:43 PM »
Joe, I'm not sure what you think you've got to gain by asking questions you already know the answer to. It's pretty obvious what she's talking about, for the most part, so it saves everyone a lot of time if you argue her points the first time instead of waiting for her to spell them out.

For instance:

refusing the active participation of women

What are you talking about? Have never heard of nuns?

She's talking about equal participation-- that is, lady preachers.

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teaching self-hatred

Eh?

She's probably talking about Church policy towards gays, here, but I think it extends to a lot of Catholic philosophy. If you aren't acquainted with the concept of Catholic Guilt, I'd like to know where you went to church.(Old joke: Lightbulb goes out, man puts in a new one. Lightbulb goes out, Catholic sits in the dark, wonders what he did wrong.)

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repressing sexuality

...eh?

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. The Catholic Church has lots and lots of restrictions on sex-- when you can have it, who you can have it with, what kind you can have. I don't care if you want to argue that these restrictions are all right and good, but don't pretend like you haven't noticed.

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covering up the abuse that results from the previous three

What abuse are you speaking of?

All the child molestation? Big scandal not long back? There's no chance you missed it unless you've been living on a mayo jar for the past few years, so again you're feigning ignorance for whatever reason.

I'm genuinely interested in learning what you think that does for you in an argument.

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making contraception a religious issue

Contraception is not wrong simply because the Church said so. It is wrong for the same reason that masturbation and homosexual activities are wrong.

... because the Church said so?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Offline jester

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2005, 05:26:16 PM »
Quote
Contraception is not wrong simply because the Church said so. It is wrong for the same reason that masturbation and homosexual activities are wrong.
You would not happen to have that reason at hand, would you?

Yeah and everything that Corvis said.  Feigning ignorance and so forth. ::)
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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2005, 05:35:57 PM »
Who says that masturbation is wrong?
The Most Holy Book That Is Yet To Be Written says, that The Most Holy Goddess says that masturbation is good.
Especially during the prayer.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Church closed for Christmas
« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2005, 05:40:41 PM »
Joe, I'm not sure what you think you've got to gain by asking questions you already know the answer to. It's pretty obvious what she's talking about, for the most part, so it saves everyone a lot of time if you argue her points the first time instead of waiting for her to spell them out.

I question the way I do in order to more precisely address the points that she is making. Assuming that a person is making a certain point in a discussion is not very good practice.

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She's talking about equal participation-- that is, lady preachers.

I knew what she was talking about, but the way she spoke was quite broad. As is your "equal participation"--nuns are required to participate in the Church as much as the priests. Women will never be ordained as priests because Christ didn't choose women as his disciples.

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She's probably talking about Church policy towards gays, here

The Church is far less harsh on homosexuality than most denominations. We believe that gays are called to chastity by God, we don't boast of "reformed homosexuals" and the like.

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but I think it extends to a lot of Catholic philosophy. If you aren't acquainted with the concept of Catholic Guilt, I'd like to know where you went to church.(Old joke: Lightbulb goes out, man puts in a new one. Lightbulb goes out, Catholic sits in the dark, wonders what he did wrong.)

I wanted her to be more specific than that so that I could properl address her. ;)

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The Catholic Church has lots and lots of restrictions on sex-- when you can have it, who you can have it with, what kind you can have.

The only restriction that I know of what you mentioned is who one can have it with: one's spouse of the opposite sex. No one said you can't screw like jackrabbits all day long bent over or sprawled out on the kitchen counter.

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All the child molestation?

You're telling me that you believe the Church's laws regarding celibacy and its supposed teaching of "self-hatred" are responsible for this?

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... because the Church said so?

Because it disrupts the reproductive process.