Thief with no pick pocket ability: is it possible?

[Lu]

   OK, I checked it again, meaning created an item that sets PP to zero. Same what my first post was about, i.e. PP=20 in game. Can you tell me which mod it is you've mentioned, Drew?

[Drew]

It's been a while, but I'll be happy to see if said NPC is still available for download.  It's a lawful good bounty hunter.  I'll check the modlist now and I'll post again when I have an answer.

[Drew]

Shit.  It isn't on the modlist.  What I think the item that the modder used *set* the skill to zero, rather than providing a penalty.  It may be that it was an opcode that made the chance zero but it didn't show up on the character sheet.  I'd happily browse NI for you to see if I could turn anything up but I still haven't gotten around to installing my slave drive.  (In other words I don't have any space for NI and JRE)  I'm sorry if I sent you on a wild goose chase. 

[Lu]

 @Drew
   All this can wait for quite a while, so no ASAP theme here

[Andyr]

I think I remember SixOfSpades mentioning for an NPC he was desigining, but AFAIK nothing came of it.

[Lu]

 @Andyr
   I'll try to find out then.Thanks

[Wounded_Lion]

This is just a shot in the dark, but this could be caused by the difference between "inc/dec" and "set".  "Set" might render pickpocketing zero regardless of racial/DEX bonuses.

a W.L.

[Lu]

This is just a shot in the dark, but this could be caused by the difference between "inc/dec" and "set".  "Set" might render pickpocketing zero regardless of racial/DEX bonuses.

a W.L.

   I've spent on this stuff quite a while already (not 24/10 though), and I've tried every possible way I can imagine, sure enough. These set PP and decrease PP effects were the first two tries (in the said order, but it's irrelevant)

[Avenger_teambg]

DLTCEP allows adding permanent effects to creatures. With some practice you can add one that won't go away even with death
You should add a permanent  'set pp to -100', btw.

[Lu]

You should add a permanent  'set pp to -100', btw

  Is there a reason for this particular number, -100?
  Gonna give it a try ASAP, sure enough

[avenger_guest]

Yes, -100 seems big enough to hide all possible positive bonuses.

[Lu]

Yes, -100 seems big enough to hide all possible positive bonuses

   Just big enough? I thought it was some special value that only solves the problem, otherwise unsolvable

[Lu]

 Avenger and everybody,
  did you know that
    1) - 100 = 176
      and
    2) 20 - 100 = 176
 as well?

  Here's what it's about. Creature: thief, human, DEX 17 (female, but it's irrelevant)
 In .CRE file I set PP ability to 0. In game PP = Base + RACE bonus + DEX bonus. For human DEX 17 it's
 PP = 0 + 15 + 5 = 20
  Then I apply effect (92) set PP to -100 (directly to creature). In game it gives PP = 176
  I try also effect reduce PP by 100. Same here: PP = 176

  I can call dad (he's a mathematician), but I'm afraid he'd decide that I need a psychiatrist (which I'm actually close to). So I won't call dad, it may upset him

   I think that the answer to the question this thread is about is NO
 Perhaps I'll try smth else, haven't decided yet what it should be. Like say,
 effect that sets PP to 176 or -176 e.g.

[Borsook]

That is very interesting, have you tried to setting to something else than -100? it may be that the value is too big and the engine goes crazy.

EDIT>I am the typo king!

[Lu]

That is very interesting, have you tried to setting to something else than -100? it may be that the value is too big and the enginr goes crazy

   Only 0, nothing else. Need some break now, for a short while. It's been lately too much for my head. But what you say here sounds reasonable, so I'll try effects with different values, not only 176 and -176

[Lu]

  Eral, I like cotton much more than wool, but it's cold in NYC, not the time to be choosy
 Sorry, feel like posting smth off-topic badly

[Avenger_teambg]

Interesting, if you say 156, i would be less amazed. (256 - 100)

[Lu]

Interesting, if you say 156, i would be less amazed. (256 - 100)

  I understand. Btw, where can I learn more of different types of integers IE uses (byte, short, etc. -?types)?
 Not how many bits in one byte, I mean, but say, Death Variable is xxx bits long and such
   I still try not to give up, but this 'thief without PP ability' is not the most urgent of my tasks for now
 Hope to hear from you soon

[Lu]

     !

 176 + 100 - 20 = 256 !
   Here 176 is what I get as PP instead of 0,
          (-) 100 is what the effect sets
          20 is the default lowest PP for my thief
          256 is what Avenger brought up   

  I wonder now if it's just a coincidence

[Borsook]

Btw, where can I learn more of different types of integers IE uses (byte, short, etc. -?types)?
 

IESDP?

[Lu]

IESDP?

I'm afraid, there's not enough info. It covers files, but what causes the problem I've encountered may lie someplace else. Just to explain clearer what I mean, here's an example. An NPC joins your party. In .CRE files all data are set, including XP. Say XP=300,000. Then you fight, do quests, etc. The NPC's XP=400,000. But there's no .CRE file for this NPC with XP=4000,000, items you have given him/her while adventuring, and such. I hope you get the whole idea why reading IESDP may not give me necessary info

[Avenger_teambg]

Hehe, right, i missed that 20 and it explains the 176. Apparently you cannot use negative numbers regarding PP.

Ok, i have a final effort.
You know that timing method '9'.
I call it permanent after death, but others call it permanent after bonuses.
My further research seems to prove those others are 'right'.
The 9 timing method is used internally for delayed effects that have been fired, so they don't supposed to be expired.
So, if the 'after bonuses' part is true, then you could add a set PP to 0 effect with timing method 9.
It will remove that 20, hopefully
Just make sure you use 'set' and not 'add' and the timing method is 9!

[Lu]

Just make sure you use 'set' and not 'add' and the timing method is 9!

   I am pretty sure I'll use nothing, having no idea of what the "timing method '9'" means. So without explanation/link I am stuck

[Avenger_teambg]

IESDP?

I'm afraid, there's not enough info. It covers files, but what causes the problem I've encountered may lie someplace else. Just to explain clearer what I mean, here's an example. An NPC joins your party. In .CRE files all data are set, including XP. Say XP=300,000. Then you fight, do quests, etc. The NPC's XP=400,000. But there's no .CRE file for this NPC with XP=4000,000, items you have given him/her while adventuring, and such. I hope you get the whole idea why reading IESDP may not give me necessary info

Yes, there is. The npc is embedded in the .gam structure, and iesdp covers this
But regarding data types you might be right.
IESDP isn't supposed to cover basic computing terms like data types.
If you are interested in computing (and serious modders will need to touch it sooner or later), you might need to buy a book or look on the internet.

Timing method '9': i guess you use dltcep, in that case this field is middle top of the screen titled 'timing'. You have to select '9 - permanent after death'... the name is a bit weird, but i've already discussed that.

[Lu]

   The fact is, it's 2:45 am in NYC, and I doubt I can think clearly till morning (or rather I'm sure I can't think clearly till morning). If you just assure me that I'll be able to understand in the morning what you've written here, or give me a link... well, you know what I mean