Author Topic: Non-drinking thread  (Read 26528 times)

Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #125 on: November 17, 2005, 09:42:33 PM »
Well, jeez, that means one of us is a freak.  I don't like beards, sideburns kick ass, and my pits are as stink-free as possible, which includes hair.  Question is, which of us is the authority on the matter?

That's right, neither one.  So just relax and realise that the world is not in fact your oyster, you aren't a shining star, you're not the only one that matters, and so on and so forth.  Live and let live, and all that jazz.
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #126 on: November 17, 2005, 11:05:26 PM »
Also, sif hate jewelery. Jewelery owns!
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Offline fcm

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #127 on: November 18, 2005, 12:39:21 AM »
Sorrow, what is your opinion on sideburns?  Awesome: Y/N?  Full beards?  What about women who don't shave their pits?  Or women with full beards?

I have a majestic auburn beard which I use as a portable iguana egg incubator. I plan to use the iguana eggs in leiu of chicken eggs for making various vaccines when the avian flu wipes out the viable egg supply -- thus, I grow them when and where I can.

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Offline Borsook

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #128 on: November 18, 2005, 01:41:39 AM »
Sorrow, you placed an overly high value on your friend's looks. She isn't to blame for that. Why on earth was it so important that she be pretty all the time? That's impossible.
Nah, that's why nature inveted a state of mind we call "love". It allows a person to be astonishingly beautiful 24h/day. 8)
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #129 on: November 18, 2005, 02:00:15 AM »
Also, sif hate jewelery. Jewelery owns!

I'd have to say I agree, but it's conditional.  Women have to either make, buy, or tell me to buy jewellery before I'll wear it.  This is because I am either insecure, a neanderthal, or both, but... shuddup.

Oh, and what does sif mean?

I have a majestic auburn beard which I use as a portable iguana egg incubator. I plan to use the iguana eggs in leiu of chicken eggs for making various vaccines when the avian flu wipes out the viable egg supply -- thus, I grow them when and where I can.

The end.

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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #130 on: November 18, 2005, 03:57:19 AM »
Sorrow, you placed an overly high value on your friend's looks. She isn't to blame for that. Why on earth was it so important that she be pretty all the time? That's impossible.
Nah, that's why nature inveted a state of mind we call "love". It allows a person to be astonishingly beautiful 24h/day. 8)

Yup :D .
And makes world really small and ideological diifferences seem to be unimoportant :) .


I dislike jevelry, because it begs to be stolen and indicates that the person that is wearing it actually has any money.
Having money attracts trouble, so it's good to look like someone that doesn't have anything worth stealing :D.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2005, 04:12:33 AM by Sorrow »
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #131 on: November 18, 2005, 06:28:44 AM »
sif = as if.
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Offline Evaine Dian

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #132 on: November 18, 2005, 06:38:45 AM »
Despising women for wearing make-up has been around ever since women started wearing it. At first, women who wore it were tagged "bad" - attracting attention and enhancing their sexuality. "Good" women were not supposed to wear it. As more and more women wore it, they were criticised for "unnaturalness". Truly beautiful women didn't need to wear make-up, and a woman who wore it was deceiving and false. As women continued to wear make-up, capitalism realised that loads of money could be made out of it, and then wearing make-up became de riguer. It was every woman's duty to wear make-up, and enhance her personal looks. Women who rejected wearing make-up then became "bad." They were frumps and feminists.

I don't know if this negative attitude towards make-up is verifiable for its very beginning (which is dated in Ancient Egypt). Beauty and hygiene was very important for Egyptians, men and women alike. They oiled their skin to prevent it from being sunburnt, used chewing gum against bad breath and put on eye shadow, not only because of aesthetic but also for medical reasons (it acted as a disinfectant).
Of course, later on there were times where make-up was not suitable for "decent" women, but rather for actors and prostitutes (as in the 19th century), but there were also other periods where it was fashionable and a must-have at court (as in the baroque era). IMO it was not one coherent development as you describe it.
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #133 on: November 18, 2005, 10:43:19 AM »
I don't like beards, sideburns kick ass, and my pits are as stink-free as possible, which includes hair.

... are you saying you shave your armpits? Or am I misreading?
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #134 on: November 18, 2005, 01:18:44 PM »
Heheh, yep.
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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #135 on: November 18, 2005, 02:16:52 PM »
Despising women for wearing make-up has been around ever since women started wearing it. At first, women who wore it were tagged "bad" - attracting attention and enhancing their sexuality. "Good" women were not supposed to wear it. As more and more women wore it, they were criticised for "unnaturalness".

I don't know if this negative attitude towards make-up is verifiable for its very beginning (which is dated in Ancient Egypt).

I think that there is a certain misconception and misunderstanding.
I've never met a person that said that wearing make-up is bad because of some ideological reasons and that there's a negative attitude towards make-up as such.

I would rather say that there are people that like natural looking - i.e. clean faces.
Person that is attracted to clean faces often sees make-up as dirt - i.e. something that they don't want to see on their faces.
There's nothing ideological in that.
There's a basic difference in perception that creates misunderstanding between people who like make-up and those who don't like it for aesthetic reason.

Clean face - face without any visible substances smeared over it.
"Dirty" face - face with visible substances smeared over it.

Of course, the fact that the thing that I see as dirt is expensive and is promoted something that woman should wear to be attractive is very, very annoying to me, because it makes the chance of looking at face without make-up drasticaly lesser.

Personally I'm more attracted to clean faces and I find girls that wear badly done make-up completely unattractive (most of girls/women in my country is unable to correctly wear [prepare?] make-up) and those who wear properly done make-up are uninteresting to me, because they look too smooth.
They look too smooth for me, because I like the certain "rough" (I'm not sure if it's a good word) quality that natural skin and looks have.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2005, 02:18:32 PM by Sorrow »
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Offline Eral

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #136 on: November 18, 2005, 05:23:18 PM »
I don't know if this negative attitude towards make-up is verifiable for its very beginning (which is dated in Ancient Egypt)...Of course, later on there were times where make-up was not suitable for "decent" women, but rather for actors and prostitutes (as in the 19th century), but there were also other periods where it was fashionable and a must-have at court (as in the baroque era). IMO it was not one coherent development as you describe it.
Make-up has never been questionable when men wanted to wear it. I should have said I am basing my statements on my knowledge of English culture: Donne, Bacon, Shakespeare, Marvell, Wollstonecraft, Hardy, Bronte, Wilde, Shaw, all make references to the views current to their society. Generally the embargo was applied to middle-class women. Other cultures have different views - in Japan it was acceptable for upper-class women to wear because of traditions regarding it. 
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Offline Dark Raven

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #137 on: November 18, 2005, 05:54:21 PM »
Goth men wear makeup.  :o
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #138 on: November 18, 2005, 06:22:04 PM »
Or they never take it off so you can't tell.
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Offline Cheeky Girl

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #139 on: November 18, 2005, 08:05:03 PM »
Dear Sorrow, the way you carry yourself makes me wonder if you recently crawled out of a cave.  If you're so adamant about certain feminine traits [such as makeup] then maybe you’re looking to find love in the wrong gender.  ;)
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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #140 on: November 18, 2005, 08:54:35 PM »
lighten up dude. Have a drink and be merry!Zx  :-*

what was we talkin about? Men and makeup? Men in make up is cool. show off yur femmine side.
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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #141 on: November 19, 2005, 08:45:16 AM »
Dear Sorrow, the way you carry yourself makes me wonder if you recently crawled out of a cave.

I find your statement rather offensive.

1. I don't crawl.
2. I don't live in the cave
3. I wash my hair every day
4. I shower at least two times a day
5. I use deodorant
6. I don't use make-up nor facepaint

I used to use more cosmetics, but I discovered that sometimes staying natural is more healthy and less painful.

If you're so adamant about certain feminine traits [such as makeup] then maybe you’re looking to find love in the wrong gender.  ;)

That's why I hate words "masculine" and "feminine".
They mean nothing and create only unnecesary conflicts and hatred.
Also, they provide an excellent excuse for not working on oneself.
One can say "I'm man/woman and my flaws are masculine/feminine and you hate men/women and you are sexist I hate you, I wish all women/men died.".
I'm rather drawn to psychologicaly androgynous than to people who are gender-polarized(i.e. effeminate women and emasculated men) ones.
In fact, I find gender-polarized people grotesque and annoying.

I think that make-up is a personal trait, not gender one.
Make-up producers try to force the perception of maku-up as gender trait (And they are succesfull in doing so), but some people are sceptic enough to be immune to their machinations :).

lighten up dude. Have a drink and be merry!Zx  :-*

 ;D

what was we talkin about? Men and makeup? Men in make up is cool. show off yur femmine side.

I possess much of stereotypicaly "feminine traits", so I don't need make-up to be more "femmine" :P.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2005, 09:04:19 AM by Sorrow »
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #142 on: November 20, 2005, 12:26:37 AM »
I don't think you meant to use the word emasculate there.
Also, most people who are psychologically something are going to tend to adjust their physical appearance to match. I'd femaleise my face if I had the slightest idea about makeup. Or at least de-maleise. I was going to look into long term hair removal stuff, but money is short.

Also, what do washing your hair, showering twice a day+ (twice a day, wtf? Once should be enough!) and using deoderant and makeup have to do with your place of residence and movement methods?
Also, how is your statement that "WOMEN SHOULD NEVER WEAR MAKEUP" any different to "WOMEN SHOULD ALWAYS WEAR MAKEUP" (aside from one has never and the other has always).

As for peope who fall into traditional gender stereotypes, it depends on the person. I have some supermasculine male friends who are fabulous, and some supermasculine males I know, I can't stand. It depends on more than just if they're a gender polary or not.

And as for your feminine traits. I'm yet to see them. Only one that's coming through here is insistence that you're right despite whatever opposition you might face, and a derivation of superiority from said position. which is a MALE trait. If we'regoing along those lines.
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Offline Borsook

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #143 on: November 20, 2005, 01:48:02 AM »
If we'regoing along those lines.
Let's not go along those lines. First snow has fallen, temperature finally dropped below zero , the world is beutiful! Let's go for a walk or something, forgive the sins of youth etc.
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Offline Cheeky Girl

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #144 on: November 20, 2005, 02:03:47 AM »
1. I don't crawl.
2. I don't live in the cave
3. I wash my hair every day
4. I shower at least two times a day
5. I use deodorant
6. I don't use make-up nor facepaint

That explains it all.  Your need to prove you're right everytime, and habits indicate you must have some sort of obsessive-compulsive disorder.

I used to use more cosmetics, but I discovered that sometimes staying natural is more healthy and less painful.

 ??? I don't know what type of make up you used in the past, but it's not supposed to be painful.  Some cosmetic products not only enhance beauty, but actually contain ingredients that are beneficial to your skin.


If you're so adamant about certain feminine traits [such as makeup] then maybe you’re looking to find love in the wrong gender.  ;)

That's why I hate words "masculine" and "feminine".
They mean nothing and create only unnecesary conflicts and hatred.
Also, they provide an excellent excuse for not working on oneself.
One can say "I'm man/woman and my flaws are masculine/feminine and you hate men/women and you are sexist I hate you, I wish all women/men died.".
I'm rather drawn to psychologicaly androgynous than to people who are gender-polarized(i.e. effeminate women and emasculated men) ones.
In fact, I find gender-polarized people grotesque and annoying.

I think that make-up is a personal trait, not gender one.
Make-up producers try to force the perception of maku-up as gender trait (And they are succesfull in doing so), but some people are sceptic enough to be immune to their machinations :).

I'm bored with you now.  Your whole superiority complex and inability to accept that as human beings we tend to be diverse is sad, laughable, and irritating.  Good luck with your holy trail, I hope you find your perfect girl.
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #145 on: November 20, 2005, 06:36:13 AM »
If we'regoing along those lines.
Let's not go along those lines. First snow has fallen, temperature finally dropped below zero , the world is beutiful! Let's go for a walk or something, forgive the sins of youth etc.

There's no snow here.
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Offline Borsook

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #146 on: November 20, 2005, 07:00:56 AM »
If we'regoing along those lines.
Let's not go along those lines. First snow has fallen, temperature finally dropped below zero , the world is beutiful! Let's go for a walk or something, forgive the sins of youth etc.

There's no snow here.
Poor you... But you will have it later on? Or are in one of those places impossible to live in where the snow does not fall?
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« Last Edit: November 20, 2005, 07:20:16 AM by Borsook »
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Offline fcm

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #147 on: November 20, 2005, 01:58:27 PM »
There's snow near where I live . . . but oddly enough, Philadelphia tends to be warmer than the burbs that are only 10 or so miles away from it. Our temperature has stayed above the 20's so far. Our entire winter has been extremely warm. Just last week it was in the 70's. God knows why.

I used to shower twice a day back when I played hockey. But yeah. It's very bad for your skin and hair to shower too much.
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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #148 on: November 20, 2005, 02:20:51 PM »
Yeah, I'm a shover addict :(.
I guess I have to do something with this :).

I don't think you meant to use the word emasculate there.
Also, most people who are psychologically something are going to tend to adjust their physical appearance to match. I'd femaleise my face if I had the slightest idea about makeup. Or at least de-maleise. I was going to look into long term hair removal stuff, but money is short.

Physical appearance is irrevelant to psychological traits.
Psychological androgyny is rather about removing masculine/feminine tags from various traits and behaviour and picking those that makes one a complete human being than adjusting ones physical appearance.
Actually realising that I don't have to change much about my physical appearance was a liberating experience.
I had a brief obsession with removing most of my body hair(especially my legs hair^^ . All those models have so smooth legs. I wanted to have smoooooooth and sexy legs toooooooooooooooo ;D), but it was really brief and now I can't imagine myself without leg hair and I don't find girls with shaved legs so attractive as before.

Also, what do washing your hair, showering twice a day+ (twice a day, wtf? Once should be enough!) and using deoderant and makeup have to do with your place of residence and movement methods?

Nothing, but it was my response to being compared to a caveman ;D.
I need shover at least twice a day - after waking up (to be fresh and not sweaty) and before going to sleep.

Also, how is your statement that "WOMEN SHOULD NEVER WEAR MAKEUP" any different to "WOMEN SHOULD ALWAYS WEAR MAKEUP" (aside from one has never and the other has always).

And where I said that "WOMEN SHOULD NEVER WEAR MAKEUP"?I don't recall saying so^^.
Saying that "WOMEN SHOULD NEVER WEAR MAKEUP" would be a tyrany.
I said that I prefer to look at girls/women that don't wear make-up and I dislike looking at girls/women that don't wear make-up.
But I like when girls/women choice not to wear make-up.


And as for your feminine traits. I'm yet to see them. Only one that's coming through here is insistence that you're right despite whatever opposition you might face, and a derivation of superiority from said position. which is a MALE trait. If we'regoing along those lines.

1.  learned it from my mother, therefore it's a feminine trait :D.
It's feminine, because my mother is a woman.
So, it's either a feminine trait, or it proves my point about inexistence of feminine and masculine traits^^.

2. I never said that I feel superior, I would rather say that I feel frustrated^^.
Also, I tend to get convinced by other people if they are evidently right and I'm evidently wrong.
The problem in this discussion is that each side is right or wrong depending on what they value more.
This discussion is tiring me, because I don't like conflicts, but I think that presenting my world view and my reasons for it is more improtant than my psychological discomfort.
From the history of my country I've learned that being silent about ones ideals and experiences is the best way to make them die out
As for keeping my position regardless of opposition, I retreated from position of hating everyone who drink, so I don't see this argument as valid.

3. It's hard to see any non-war-related traits of someone who is writing in a discussion which is at least as stressful as religious and political threads^^.

4. I shouldn't say that I have feminine traits, because I didn't find any evidence that supports their existance.
I've seen universal and cultural traits being called feminine or masculine, but they aren't really feminine or masculine by themselves.
Usualy, feminine traits are also masculine traits that have other name so calling them masculine or feminine is sexism.

??? I don't know what type of make up you used in the past, but it's not supposed to be painful.  Some cosmetic products not only enhance beauty, but actually contain ingredients that are beneficial to your skin.

Sorry, I was writing about things that people to do to alter their looks in general.
For example I recently discovered why my skin hurts for about two weeks after shaving, no matter if I shaved clean or left few milimeters of hair.
Curly, sharpened hair and skin don't get along :/.
As for cosmetic products, I prefer to include ingredients that are beneficia to my skin in my diet. It's cheaper and less tedious than rubbing various creams, balsam etc. into skin...
Yeah and it smells less.

I'm bored with you now.  Your whole superiority complex and inability to accept that as human beings we tend to be diverse is sad, laughable, and irritating.

I'm defending diversity.

I'm tired with ongoing standardisation of human beings.
For example the damned make-up thing - if there were diversity, there would be a significant amount of girls/women dislike make-up.
There aren't.
Why?
Because pictures in magazines show that women wear make-up.
Why?
Because magazines are created by people that believe that women should wear make-up or people who want to sell make-up.
So, where is the diversity?
I've never seen a magazine for men/women that actively promotes natural looks.
Why?
It's hard to make money on people who look naturally.
It's all about money.

Same for drinking.
Beer=fun
Party=drinking=fun
Alcohol producers are doing very much people believe that there is no fun without alcohol.
If there was a diversity, there would be a lot of movies portraing people having fun on parties without drinking and there would be parties for non drinking people.
But there aren't.
So, where's the diversity?

There's no chance for diversity, when standards are created by people who sell products that are needed to comply to them.

Oh, one more thing:
How this quote
If you're so adamant about certain feminine traits [such as makeup] then maybe you’re looking to find love in the wrong gender.  ;)

relates to your statement about diversity?
Diversity sugests coexistence of females that like and wear make-up and females that don't like nor wear make-up and thus would invalidate the statement about make-up being a feminine trait.

[edited for grammar]
« Last Edit: November 20, 2005, 03:13:58 PM by Sorrow »
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Offline jester

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #149 on: November 20, 2005, 04:45:50 PM »
I have to say that I did not give this thread much of a lifespan when it started, but now I must admit that you, Sorrow, can be quite adamant when defending your positions. Perhaps one day you will tire of discussions about personal hygiene and join the ranks of those who are welcomed and praised everywhere by moderators and the general public alike: the duellists in the religious and political threads which can start out as little as with the question what Kelsey's haircolour might be. Although there is a hint of feminism in here I still must say that it is way to personal to make it an earnest debate about stuff which does not belong here.

Oh well, carry on.
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