Author Topic: Non-drinking thread  (Read 26543 times)

Offline Sorrow

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #100 on: November 16, 2005, 06:41:28 PM »
Wow, that's supremely shallow.  I love it.

"I will love you forever and ever, my darling, and together we... hey, is that planter's wart medicine you have in your bathroom?!?  How could you deceive me so?!  I thought your feet were pure!  But no... this is it.  This is the end.  I can never see you again, you most slanderous and foul of deceivers."

I find your metaphore supremely shallow and irrevelant.
Medicine is to cure sickness.
Make-up and hair-paint is to make someone look different.

Don't people have the right to try and make themselves look better? You shave or trim your nails right? How is that any less artificial than makeup? I'm not such a fan of surgery to change your appearance, but makeup, meh.

And if you actually loved her, her appearance wouldn't matter anyhow.

Shaving/cutting/washing hair and trimming nails is rather hygiene thing that falsifying looks, same for deodorant (though I dislike perfumed deodorants and perfums).

I didn't love her.
We were friends.

So, you admit that you only liked her for her looks?  I think she was better off that you left her alone.  She can do much better.

Not for only her looks, I liked to talk with her.
But I was attracted to her looks.
Since she used her looks to attract people, it's normal that I was rejected with the same force, when I discovered that they were fake.
I liked her, but we had different personalities and different interests.
Funny thing, but admiring each other's looks was an important part of our friendship (I don't know, why I think that people like people who look good).
Finding out that she isn't even pretty, was just too much, because she posed for someone she isn't, while I was who I seemed to be ;D .

Hmm...
It may be hard to explain...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 06:44:12 PM by Sorrow »
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Offline glain

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #101 on: November 16, 2005, 06:49:20 PM »
Make-up and hair-paint is to make someone look different.
No, make-up when applied correctly is to enhance natural looks, not change a person's appearance.  :)
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Offline icelus

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #102 on: November 16, 2005, 07:02:09 PM »
Not for only her looks, I liked to talk with her.

Again, you're admitting that you liked more than her looks, but the minute you found out that she used makeup, you threw her out of her life.  Do you honestly not see how shallow that is? 

Quote
Hmm...
It may be hard to explain...

Try harder, please.
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Offline Dark Raven

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #103 on: November 16, 2005, 07:18:34 PM »
The shallowness of males never ceases to amaze me.
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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #104 on: November 16, 2005, 07:35:55 PM »
Geeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Not again.
I have some real friends that I can talk with about really deep things and that I walue, because of who they are, not how they look.
The problem is that she was attracting people by her looks and by other cheap tricks like buying everyone coffe etc.
One important difference between me and that girl was that I was a loner and I was interested in deeper relationships with single persons and that she liked a company and attention of large groups of people, and was ironicaly rather shallow (not by lack of intelectual capabilities, but by wasting time on too many people).
Combination of those two characters doesn't make a good and lasting friendship.

Not for only her looks, I liked to talk with her.

Again, you're admitting that you liked more than her looks, but the minute you found out that she used makeup, you threw her out of her life.  Do you honestly not see how shallow that is? 

Quote
Hmm...
It may be hard to explain...

Try harder, please.
Quote

I knew that she used make-up before, it was more about the hair paint, I didn't like the contrast between who she was physicaly and who she pretended to be.
I don't know.
Liking someone "because" they add certain quality to my life is always shallow.
Some people are annoying, but charming with look good and the person same person may be merely annoying when doesn't have good looks, because good looks trigger certain reactions that make spending time with that person subjectively more interesting.
It's called glamour, or something...
Since she had some already annoying habits, that was just too much and I started to openly despise her.
I don't know...
I think that it has something to do with the fact, that when I met first her I practicaly got fell in love with her from the first sight.
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Offline Regullus

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #105 on: November 16, 2005, 11:42:07 PM »
Quote
I knew that she used make-up before, it was more about the hair paint, I didn't like the contrast between who she was physicaly and who she pretended to be.

 Why is pretense so offensive to you? If someone feels self -protective or insecure or is simply testing boundaries, why do you find it so objectionable? It does not appear that conformity is the issue as you have no objection to people conforming to your ideals and ideas.

Quote
One important difference between me and that girl was that I was a loner and I was interested in deeper relationships with single persons and that she liked a company and attention of large groups of people, and was ironicaly rather shallow (not by lack of intelectual capabilities, but by wasting time on too many people).
Combination of those two characters doesn't make a good and lasting friendship.

 It could be argued that the exact opposite is true, opposites can attract and each can enhance the other's traits and life. Do you really want only to be with people who are just like you?  Such a choice seems a self-limiting path to follow.


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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #106 on: November 17, 2005, 12:48:10 AM »
@Ghrey - you bastard! I spilled tea because of you! ;D This thread's getting better and better. :)

@Sorrow - If you don't like make-up that much why is your avatar wearing one?

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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #107 on: November 17, 2005, 10:27:56 AM »
Why is pretense so offensive to you? If someone feels self -protective or insecure or is simply testing boundaries, why do you find it so objectionable? It does not appear that conformity is the issue as you have no objection to people conforming to your ideals and ideas.

So, why people don't like being subject of the Charm Person spell?
Why people don't like posers?
Why I don't like pretense?
It usually has opposite effects to the ones wanted, when it is revealed.
I mean that when it becomes known, usually, people who thought that it was truth, feel cheated.

It could be argued that the exact opposite is true, opposites can attract and each can enhance the other's traits and life. Do you really want only to be with people who are just like you?  Such a choice seems a self-limiting path to follow.

I don't want to be with onlly with people who are just like me, because I'm the only one persen who is just like me.
I have some friends that are different from me, but what attrats me to them are similarities, not differences.
As for a self-limiting path...
I found her company rather limiting.
Nice, but limiting anyway.
I prefer peoples company to be nice and enhancing.
Sometimes I think that one becomes an attractive person by being among people and becomes deeper and interesting person by being alone.
I think that balance between solitude and company is very important.

@Sorrow - If you don't like make-up that much why is your avatar wearing one?

I don't know.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that it is a scenic make-up, or rather face-paint.
Hmm...
I think that this avatar is outdated, because I don't listen to Cradle of Filth anymore.
I'm keeping this one because I'm to lazy to draw myself a new avatar.
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Offline Borsook

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #108 on: November 17, 2005, 10:49:29 AM »
Whee! 1000 posts! Well now 1001, cause I've not noticed. Well, yeah I've nothing intersting to say at the moment, and I won't touch some stuff from this thread cause I'm a nice lovable guy. :P
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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #109 on: November 17, 2005, 01:04:15 PM »
Congratulations ;D.
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #110 on: November 17, 2005, 01:27:01 PM »
I don't think there is anything wrong if someone tries to make friends by making themselves look nice and buying coffee.
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Offline icelus

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #111 on: November 17, 2005, 01:36:01 PM »
It's incredibly shallow to dismiss someone because they wear makeup.  Yes, if you want to get down to the nitty-gritty, I suppose you could make the argument that wearing makeup means you're trying to be something you're not.  But the same could be said for people who wear black clothing or vertical stripes.  Or shoes with big soles/heels.  Or a nice haircut.  If we did absolutely nothing to our bodies other than bathe, we'd all likely be hideous.
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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #112 on: November 17, 2005, 02:01:40 PM »
Yeah,  I really despise tough guys who are actually really nice, people who talk trash but helps out the homeless whenever they can, the ever so popular dark-hero-who-is-really-well-intentioned, etc. It just boils me up when a vicious-looking  gangster helps an old lady across the street instead of mugging her.

You know why? because they are all posers for trying to pretend they are something they're not. The Hypocrites. >:( 

Offline Sorrow

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #113 on: November 17, 2005, 02:32:51 PM »
 :D

It's incredibly shallow to dismiss someone because they wear makeup.  Yes, if you want to get down to the nitty-gritty, I suppose you could make the argument that wearing makeup means you're trying to be something you're not.  But the same could be said for people who wear black clothing or vertical stripes.  Or shoes with big soles/heels.  Or a nice haircut.  If we did absolutely nothing to our bodies other than bathe, we'd all likely be hideous.

What it has to do with the situation that I have described?
And who said that I did dismiss her because she wears makeup?
As for amount of things done to our bodies...
There are many different standards of beauty, some of which are contradicting with others.
Make-up can be hideous too, especialy if it's badly done.
I met very few people who are skilled in make-up enough to actually look better when wearing it.

Anyway, my dislike for make-up is rather connected with my aesthetical sense than with any ideology.
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Offline icelus

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #114 on: November 17, 2005, 02:42:40 PM »
:D
I believe notasophist was going for sarcasm, not sincerity.

Quote
And who said that I did dismiss her because she wears makeup?

You did:

I used to know a girl who was very pretty and had very beautiful honey-blonde hair and I was very impressed with her looks.
About year after meeting her first time I've met her without make-up and without natural hair and she was ugly and looked very unhealthy.
I got pissed at her and never met her again, because I hate being tricked and she tricked me and other people that she looks better than she looks.
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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #115 on: November 17, 2005, 03:28:57 PM »
Let's put it this way:

Most people think they hate hypocrisy; they don't. They just don't like being disappointed.

Offline Sorrow

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #116 on: November 17, 2005, 04:46:59 PM »
Yeah.
Finally someone found out what I was talking about.
I was disappointed and disenchanted.
Not that that was a big thing that would break friendship with person that is genuinely interesting.

:D
I believe notasophist was going for sarcasm, not sincerity.

I appreciate good sarcasm.

I didn't dismiss her because she wears make-up, but because I she was annoying me.

I don't think there is anything wrong if someone tries to make friends by making themselves look nice and buying coffee.

I don't know.
Personally, I prefer people who make friends by being interesting persons.
People who make friends by buying them things are often perceived as less valuable persons by those who they give things.
And people who make friends by looking nice risk that their friends will like them for looking nice, which often has bad consequences.
I don't think that it's a good base for friendship or love.
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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #117 on: November 17, 2005, 05:04:28 PM »
You know, you sound just like a scientist who is mad at reality for not in accordance with his hypothesis.

"Damn you Nature! Damn you for not subscribing to my vision!"

Since you deny deception to be the problem, but rather the girl's unattractiveness. I think that pretty much qualifies as shallowness.

Offline Eral

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #118 on: November 17, 2005, 05:38:06 PM »
Sorrow, you placed an overly high value on your friend's looks. She isn't to blame for that. Why on earth was it so important that she be pretty all the time? That's impossible. Just as no-one can be pleasant all the time, or patient, or any other characteristic. The discovery that your friend wore make-up sounds like an excuse for breaking up the friendship. What's with this "one mistake and it's over" thing? Setting impossible standards is a great strategy if you want to avoid intimacy, but you can't then lay the blame on others for the failure of the relationship.  

Despising women for wearing make-up has been around ever since women started wearing it. At first, women who wore it were tagged "bad" - attracting attention and enhancing their sexuality. "Good" women were not supposed to wear it. As more and more women wore it, they were criticised for "unnaturalness". Truly beautiful women didn't need to wear make-up, and a woman who wore it was deceiving and false. As women continued to wear make-up, capitalism realised that loads of money could be made out of it, and then wearing make-up became de riguer. It was every woman's duty to wear make-up, and enhance her personal looks. Women who rejected wearing make-up then became "bad." They were frumps and feminists.

The moral of this story is, if you keep on criticising your friend for choosing to wear make-up -because she likes it, because she wants to cover up "flaws" in her features, or whatever- a big bunch of angry feminists are going to come around and harangue you mercilessly on the topic of the right of women to freely make choices about their appearance, without having to get your permission.
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #119 on: November 17, 2005, 05:47:51 PM »
I don't think there is anything wrong if someone tries to make friends by making themselves look nice and buying coffee.

I don't know.
Personally, I prefer people who make friends by being interesting persons.
People who make friends by buying them things are often perceived as less valuable persons by those who they give things.
And people who make friends by looking nice risk that their friends will like them for looking nice, which often has bad consequences.
I don't think that it's a good base for friendship or love.

I prefer that too, but am not too fussy. I have interesting/no morals.

I agree with NotASophist's point about disappointment, too.
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Offline Dark Raven

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #120 on: November 17, 2005, 06:21:21 PM »
I like wearing black clothes. Come to think of it most of my clothes are black. I guess that means I am either fond of the clergy or I like looking goth, devilish, morbid.
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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #121 on: November 17, 2005, 08:13:35 PM »
Sorrow, you placed an overly high value on your friend's looks. She isn't to blame for that. Why on earth was it so important that she be pretty all the time? That's impossible. Just as no-one can be pleasant all the time, or patient, or any other characteristic. The discovery that your friend wore make-up sounds like an excuse for breaking up the friendship. What's with this "one mistake and it's over" thing? Setting impossible standards is a great strategy if you want to avoid intimacy, but you can't then lay the blame on others for the failure of the relationship.

I'm not setting impossible standards.
My best friend happens to have dyed hair and seems to like piercing, but he is an interesting person.
And I didn't even hate make-up when I broken up friendship, because I wasn't thinking about any philosophy behind the way I look and other people look.
I just say that looks are strongly connected with personal charm and that good looks can help make friends but aren't a good base to start a friendship, especially if they are artificial.
If friendship is based on personal charm, or glamour as some people would say, it's better if it's genuine.
As for that girl's looks...
I knew that she wore make up and I have seen her without make-up before, and as I said I was more disappointed with her hair - to me hair are very important part of persons look (that's why I hate cutting my hair - hairdressers always cut them too short >:(. Last time I cut my hair, I hated everyone and everything [especially mirrors] for about month :() because they can make person look unique and charming and can drasticaly alter how the person is perceived by other people (That's why I tend to dislike bald people.).
As I said, when I met her first time, she had beatiful honey-blonde hair that looked a bit like an aureole, and I think that they gave her certain charisma.
When I met her last time, she had ugly, matt hair of indeterminate colour.
When she lost her glamour she became an uninteresting, rather shallow girl.
If there's a moral in this story it would rather be: "If you aren't really beautiful, better spend some money on good books and become an interesting person instead of spending money on buying friends meals in restaurants."

Despising women for wearing make-up has been around ever since women started wearing it. At first, women who wore it were tagged "bad" - attracting attention and enhancing their sexuality. "Good" women were not supposed to wear it. As more and more women wore it, they were criticised for "unnaturalness". Truly beautiful women didn't need to wear make-up, and a woman who wore it was deceiving and false. As women continued to wear make-up, capitalism realised that loads of money could be made out of it, and then wearing make-up became de riguer. It was every woman's duty to wear make-up, and enhance her personal looks. Women who rejected wearing make-up then became "bad." They were frumps and feminists.

I'm not despising women for wearing make-up, I just despise make-up and people who direct the mass brain washing.
My despise for make-up has several reasons, aesthetical, financial and ideological.

Err...
Who are frumps?

Anyway, as I said I'm in this world not to blindly follow, but to create new way.
If people dislike it, it's their problem.
Problem with fashion and social norms is that usually they are created by people who I regard as vermin.
There's no place for compromise or surrender.

Personally I dislike wearing make-up, jevelry, restrictive clotches etc.
And I really, really hate high-heeled boots, because they are unhealthy and it's hard to run, jump etc. in them.
Taking in account how dangerous are streets, depriving oneself from mobility is a bad idea.

The moral of this story is, if you keep on criticising your friend for choosing to wear make-up

Err...
Which friend?



As women continued to wear make-up, capitalism realised that loads of money could be made out of it, and then wearing make-up became de riguer. It was every woman's duty to wear make-up, and enhance her personal looks. Women who rejected wearing make-up then became "bad." They were frumps and feminists.

The moral of this story is, if you keep on criticising your friend for choosing to wear make-up -because she likes it, because she wants to cover up "flaws" in her features, or whatever- a big bunch of angry feminists are going to come around and harangue you mercilessly on the topic of the right of women to freely make choices about their appearance, without having to get your permission.

 :D
Maybe.
From the other side I don't complain when a girl/woman tells me that I look better with a bit shorter hair/beard, so I see nothing wrong in telling girl that she looks better without make-up.
Of course it's completely pointless, because a)they are brainwashed and think that wearing make-up is their duty, b)they really think that their very unprofessional make-up looks good, c)people learn norms that are hard to destroy without experiences that prove that the norm may be incorrect.


I like wearing black clothes. Come to think of it most of my clothes are black. I guess that means I am either fond of the clergy or I like looking goth, devilish, morbid.

I like wearing black clotches too :D .
Black clotches are very aesthetic, even if they are very simple.
Black is deep and fascinating :D .
It's hard to find not-black clothes that are really aesthetic.
I usually wear black t-shirt, black tracksuit trouser and sometimes black sweater :) .
Lord Vetinari wears black :) .
Black also makes me look slimmer, but I don't think it's a positive thing.
Some of my T-shirts are red, but I don't like them anymore.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #122 on: November 17, 2005, 08:54:10 PM »
Sorrow, what is your opinion on sideburns?  Awesome: Y/N?  Full beards?  What about women who don't shave their pits?  Or women with full beards?
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Offline cliffette

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #123 on: November 17, 2005, 09:03:02 PM »
"Get used to disappointment." - Westley, the Princess Bride.

It'll make you happier.

Offline Sorrow

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Re: Non-drinking thread
« Reply #124 on: November 17, 2005, 09:26:28 PM »
Sorrow, what is your opinion on sideburns?  Awesome: Y/N?  Full beards?  What about women who don't shave their pits?  Or women with full beards?

I don't like full beards, nor sideburns, I prefer to trim my beard with scissors (I hate shaving).
I don't shave my pits.
Women with full beards?
Ugh.
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