Author Topic: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures  (Read 21308 times)

Offline jester

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2005, 03:23:47 PM »
Everytime I fight somebody who does this and that and I find out afterwards that he is carrying some munchkin item I get upset. Next time we meet I Ctrl+Y him as I have proved that it is possible to beat him and I don't want lame design decisions halting my gameplay. Sometimes I try, if my solo thief could go on and take on the gnome in the docks or some other munchkin event, but mostly I get bored quite easily.

I don't mind: Increased stats (not above 20 if possible) since I am also not going for the all 9s character.
Stuff that is depleted arrows, potions, scrolls. I carry them why shouldn't they? Only if he initally carries 20 acid bows and I manage to kill him fast I want those 15 spare arrows for my trouble.

Now the argument against that is reload knowledge which gives me an advantage anyhow as somehow I just knew which spells to cast before opening that inconspicuous door near that other place I just looted.

The counterargument is clever positioning. Make more spawns random. Trigger Nimbul when you are wounded, perhaps right after you exit the mines, or sometimes else when you are wounded. He has been following you for a while. An hired gun 'sneaking' up on you in brad daylight in a bordertown chuck full of soldiers?? This punk is really feeling lucky.
 The spiders in the sewers should actually march around, they are looking for food after all. Just like IRL you could get lucky. Your opponent stumbles, your enemies are spread out to much to inflict enough damage or something like this. It makes reruns exciting. Firing up a character editor and making suchandsuch legit bores me to tears, if it does not improve my fun.

 Point in case, Greywulf. He carries a very good sword which you could get quite early. The watch word is could as he slaughters my noobs on a regular basis. The whimpy method is that he somehow chases the char which did the last damage to him alllowing Imoen to run in circles as Minsc pelts him with arrows. No good sword is going to make up for a stupid tactic. It might be tricky to come up with a good script, but giving him extra undroppable armour is something I detest. Up his script and his dex and he would be lethal everytime. Well I'll still find a way, but hey, I never loved Montaron anyway and neither did Xzar. :)

I respect the equipment idea, but apart from the unlikely chance that a hobbit gets the ring of power, I say if you can beat that dragon you earned yourself the loot fair and square.

@potentially devastating: That is the tricky part of game balancing and I applaud all efforts to improve it, but I insist that undroppable items always indicate a weak game design of some form. That said there is no reason that some items were damaged during the fight and you either have to costly fix them (delays use for the items quite effectively while still giving the reward you can hold onto) or sell them as scrap.

As Nimbul is a bard (or at least someone claimed somewhere), he can use scrolls for example. Why throw axes or anything, if you can use a spell. Protective magic when he is wounded potions etc. With those you can always go down the path of the guarded compound and have nothing, but empty bottles in the inventory (witha mean description of what you did not get) afterwards.

Since I am at it I think that it is lame that a mage who carries scrolls would not use them , if he runs out of memorised spells. I know they are supposed to be for building up your spell book, but it is just no good story telling to get stuff off people who had plenty of time to use them
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2005, 04:11:02 PM »
Why not have Nimbul cast Armor, Shield, Blur, Mirror Image, Ghost Armor, etc?
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Offline Salk

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2005, 04:43:16 PM »
jester,

I also don't like as principle the idea of undroppable item. But in this case I believe it's the best way to keep the game balanced. The extra items I have given Nimbul are nothing extraordinary but still I believe that I'd rather respect the game design (which of course might be improved but this is not my goal) and I let the party find what the party is supposed to find after a certain fight.

Oh and Nimubul is a Fighter/Thief. Not a Bard.

NiGHTMARE,

Nimbul now comes with a good sortment of spells. He's legal and he's more dangerous than before without using cheesy spells but what is due. In the original .cre file, it's potential is actually inferior since he does not get the spells he should. Of course I didn't let him have Fireball because at that point in the game, such spells are not supposed to be cast against the party. But Improved Invisibility will be a new weapon for him... ;)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2005, 02:28:07 AM by Salk »

Offline Sorrow

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2005, 04:47:53 PM »
II is 4th level.
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Offline jester

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2005, 05:04:44 PM »
Quote
Oh and Nimubul is a Fighter/Thief. Not a Bard.

NiGHTMARE,

Nimbul now comes with a good sortment of spells.
???
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Offline Salk

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2005, 05:34:47 PM »
II is 4th level.

Yes, I know. As Level 7 Mage he gets a fourth level spell.

Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2005, 05:36:04 PM »
Quote
Oh and Nimubul is a Fighter/Thief. Not a Bard.

NiGHTMARE,

Nimbul now comes with a good sortment of spells.
???
I think he meant mage/thief.
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Offline Salk

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2005, 05:37:09 PM »
Sorry! I meant to say Mage/Thief of course! NiGHTMARE is right!  ;)

By the way, NiGHTMARE...I have a couple of questions for you and you might be of help  ;)...

Using NI I see that there are three parameters in TotSC (Hide in Shadow, Set Traps and Detect Illusion) that have always zero. Is it because their use comes only with Baldur's Gate 2 ?

And more important, how do the Weapon Proficiencies work in TotSC compared to the AD&D 2nd Ed. Rules ? Only Fighters can set more than one star in the weapons ? All the other classes are limited to one (proficient) and can't go beyond ? If I remember well in AD&D PnP Multiclass Fighter are also limited to proficiency...Can you please shed some light about this ? Thanks!  :pirate
« Last Edit: November 19, 2005, 05:49:57 PM by Salk »

Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #58 on: November 19, 2005, 06:15:26 PM »
Re: the thief skills.  I think so, yes.  I'm pretty sure BG1 lumps Hide In Shadows and Move Silently together, and IIRC the other two were new to BG2.  However, it's been an extremely long time since I've played BG1 other than via Tutu or BGT, so I could be wrong ;).

Re: weapon proficiences.  In pnp, only single-classed fighters can be specialized or better in a weapon.   Paladins, rangers, and multi-classed fighters can achieve expertise in a weapon, which has the attacks per round bonus of specialization but not the THAC0 or damage bonuses.

Proficiency levels in pnp also offer somewhat different advantages than those in the IE games.  You can see what the pnp version of the system offers in this post.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2005, 06:22:50 PM by NiGHTMARE »
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Offline aigleborgne

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2005, 03:54:56 AM »
I have a little question:

How can I find the spell file from a spell IDS ?

for example, I want to find which spell is related to DEATHKNIGHT_FIREBALL
I have the impression it's hardcoded in the engine

Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2005, 12:59:45 PM »
It's in there.

3701 DEATHKNIGHT_FIREBALL

The 3 means that its prefix is SPCL (CL for Class).  I think.  The 701 means that that's the last three numbers in the file.  SPCL701.

The thing about Tutu is that you can also use SoA and ToB scripting actions, so SpellRES() and its ilk will work in scripts, too.  This is useful if you want to make a custom spell, for instance.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #61 on: November 20, 2005, 01:01:29 PM »
Although now that I check, it seems that the _deathk.cre and _deathk1.cre files use SPWI957 for their fireballs.  I found that by checking the .cre file.
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Offline Salk

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #62 on: November 21, 2005, 03:39:21 AM »
Small update: despite my little/no knowledge of the instrument I am using (NI), it was enough to scractch some of the surface to see how many, many parameters are completely screwed and how the scripts are often/always completely inadequate (I am hoping in aigleborgne here).

This is particularly true for some NPC that should be tough fights. But some of them are supposed to be never attacked because of their alignment/usefulness in the game so they are way too much of a joke in case of a fight. Others are absurdely equipped with nothing or too little. I am working on the TotSC NPCs at the moment and I have just finished going through the "A" letter. It's a huge work.

Once aigleborgne will be ready with his scripts and modification I will try and check his customizations and perhaps suggest correction of such values that are not legit.

I realize that my modifications are not that useful, although it's still an improvement, if they are not supported by smart scripts that should take advantage mostly of the new spells, this time legally memorized according to the real spell progression table.

« Last Edit: November 21, 2005, 03:41:00 AM by Salk »

Offline aigleborgne

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2005, 06:17:59 AM »
It's in there.

3701 DEATHKNIGHT_FIREBALL

The 3 means that its prefix is SPCL (CL for Class).  I think.  The 701 means that that's the last three numbers in the file.  SPCL701.

The thing about Tutu is that you can also use SoA and ToB scripting actions, so SpellRES() and its ilk will work in scripts, too.  This is useful if you want to make a custom spell, for instance.

Thanks a lot.
Altough there is no SPCL701, but I have found SPIN701 which a 20d6 fireball (as should be for a deathknight)

And yes, you are right about death knight using something different.
But my new death knight is based on BG2 one, new script (to reflect exact DK, according to Monster Manuel 2e)
but I didn't change stats, in MM, stats are somewhat weak. I think bioware has adapted monsters

beside the script, BG1 DK > BG2 DK. He has more hp, more resistances...

I don't want to make easier than before. I need to find something :)


Another question: is there a limit to script size ?
270ko for my mage.bcs. and still not finished.
It doesn't slow down my computer. but I need to test with several mages

Offline aigleborgne

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2005, 01:03:06 PM »
Ok, I took some days to rewrite my mage script.
I was so happy to see mages in action, that I went too far... script was looking for level, resistances, saving throws!
Plus, there was some errors here and there, some unfinished features.

Actually, I'm really satisfy with my current script. Altough some features don't always work (shout, wands)
Script only see what player can see with one exception : hit points (just for power words)
player can't see exact hit points but can have a general state.
I could replace numbers by % but It would weakened the mage as % are not accurate
(near death 0-25%, severly injured 25-50%, injured 50%-75%, barely injured 75-99%)

I have added potion detection for:
- scroll of protection from magic (100% protection from magic)
- potion of magic protection (50% magic resistance)
- potion of magic shielding (-20 saving throws  50% magic damage resistance)
- potion of magic blocking (immunity to level 1-5 for 5 rounds)

These are the main things that can totally render a mage useless (if he tries to cast on protected target)
2 solutions:
- either give some memory (he cast one spell, see immunity, remember that when casting next spell)
- potions detection

first solution is very tedious to implement
second solution is easy.

scroll of protection produce a visual sphere. so enemy actually see it (and should know what it is)
other potions have no visual effect.

I know it can be considered as a cheat but the fact is enemy don't use those potions against the party.
So my suggestion is either solution 2 (actualy in my script) either give those (very good) potions to enemy (strong ones, no need to say)

What are you suggestions about these points?
Which solution do you prefer? (first, second, or nothing)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2005, 01:07:37 PM by aigleborgne »

Offline Salk

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2005, 02:58:16 PM »
Aigleborgne,

while it's extremely good you are creating valid scripts that will take place of the poor original ones, I would suggest you to also keep en eye on game balance because it's "dangerous" to shift the difficulty too close to impossibility.

People would get tired of fighting to death every single challenge they are to face on their path, so portion detection is actually not really fair, according to me.

Much better to give a visual acknowledgment. What in PnP would be called Spellcraft.

Keep it up your wonderful job!  ;)

P.S. Remember there are also Clerics, Druids and the others whom are waiting for your scripting skill!  8)

Offline aigleborgne

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #66 on: November 28, 2005, 10:08:29 AM »
Hello,

New about the mod:
I didn't advance in creatures editing but I have now finished all scripts (some need minor tweaks, but are overall finished)
I have also worked on summon creatures (high level summons), because most of them get bad script, wrong stats. (Although I haven't finished this part yet)

About undead, I was wondering if the game have a turn-undead table (as in D&D book) ?
I know a high level cleric can turn most undead in BG2 but in D&D, some UD can't be turned (warrior skeleton for example).
So I would like to check that.

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2005, 11:31:18 AM »
Hello!
Thank you for your fabulous work. I've wanted a improved creature mod ever since BG Tutu was released, and neither Heart of Fury or BG-Harder Patch seems to convert correctly. I was just wondering, when do you think that the improved Creatures mod will be released?

Any chance om making it before the start of the Christmas Holidays???
I sincerely hope so...

Thanks for you work again!!

Offline aigleborgne

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2005, 03:07:59 PM »
Hello,

No, it will not be finished before christmas.
However, I will release a 2nd alpha version before christmas.

News:
I am modifying most of the monsters, giving them abilities and powers as in P&P.
It's quite difficult to do, but i am getting good results.

Changes in:
thac0 : as specify in P&P, or according to hitdice/class if lower (because many monsters have a so bad thac0 they would be useless)
AC, saving throws (according to hitdice/class), resistances, attack/round
weapon : I have created many "weapons", so monsters have the same as in P&P
movement speed : this is the tough part. I'm trying to do the best, according to P&P. Although it's not precise, it's quite good. (globally, many monsters will be faster)
hit point : as in P&P. although sometimes I don't pick number. For example : flesh golem is 9hd (40hp). I take normal rule, 9hd = 72hp
special resistances / effect : regeneration, immunities... except some that are diffcult to code like 50% resist iron weapons
experience : I first apply P&P experience, then I adjust if necessary (some monsters worth too much in P&P)
special abilities / spells : hardest part, but fun to implement*

* many creatures have something special:
bears can hug their target, aerial servant can strangle, ...
about spells, it's difficult because many one don't exist in game. I make replacements with existing spells.

to conclude, after doing all that, some monsters can be weaker than before. I test them, and make tweaks if necessary.
The purpose is to make them as close to P&P as possible. But I don't want to make them weaker than before.

because tougher monsters will be faster and gain special abilities, they will provide a greater challenge
but for most of them, don't expect to see a large change. it's usually minor things.

Offline Meddle.

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2005, 10:11:49 PM »
Quote
bears can hug their target, aerial servant can strangle, ...

hugs will bypass/make victims immune to FREE ACTION and the like wont they?
chaos matters

Offline aigleborgne

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2005, 02:06:11 AM »
No,  Hug just do xDy damage on 15% basis.
In P&P, they do that with a 18+ roll

Offline Meddle.

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #71 on: December 02, 2005, 01:19:54 PM »
so they dont paralyze or smth. mkay.
chaos matters

SKoveras

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #72 on: December 09, 2005, 03:12:11 PM »
Hi!
I was just wondering, you mentioned earlier that the mod would't be released before Christmas.
Any ideas on when it will be released?
January? February?

All the best...

Offline Salk

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Re: Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2005, 11:45:59 PM »
Hello all!

The Mod has got itself its own forum at BWL:

http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/index.php?showforum=91

Please redirect there all your questions, comments, suggestions. The name has changed to Enhanced Creature and a newer version is available for download.

Thanks!

P.S. To answer SKoveras' question: the Mod is already out but it's in Alpha Stage. It works already but it's far from being complete and some things are presently missing and will be implemented later at Beta Stage (which should be around Christmas)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 11:49:12 PM by Salk »

SKoveras

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Baldur's Gate Tutu : Improved Creatures
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2005, 11:24:24 AM »
Will there be a BGT-BP compatibility?

 

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