Author Topic: Madam President  (Read 29312 times)

Offline Eral

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #200 on: November 15, 2005, 12:38:55 AM »
Apparently people thought she was the same as Brian Mulrooney(?) which I believe was pretty much the kiss of death for anyone.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #201 on: November 15, 2005, 11:36:04 AM »
Mulroney.  And yeah, he wasn't a very good PM.  Now that I think about it, he might've been the last conservative PM in Canada other than Campbell.  Yeah.  It's been Chretien for 12 years.  Although he hasn't really been in office because he's a stellar leader, but more because the right-wing has been in shambles for the past decade+, trying to rebrand itself, but instead falling into in-fighting and bickering.  The Refoooooorm Party of Canada.  Heh!  Oh, and let's not forget CRAP (The Canadian Reform Alliance Party).
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Offline MyFinalHeaven

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #202 on: November 15, 2005, 08:11:33 PM »
"I just love that word refooooorm"

I miss Manning.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #203 on: November 17, 2005, 03:34:06 PM »
Sounds like Chretien may be in trouble.








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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #204 on: November 17, 2005, 04:45:38 PM »
Well, no, it's Paul Martin who's in trouble now, because he took over Chretien's legacy when Chretien retired a while back.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #205 on: November 17, 2005, 05:43:06 PM »
But I thought the recent report implicated Chretien and not Martin?

I understand the two were rivals within the within the Liberal Party, too.

Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #206 on: November 17, 2005, 07:22:18 PM »
I'm not sure which recent report you're talking about.
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Offline Joe

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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #208 on: November 18, 2005, 02:07:01 AM »
Oh, yes, that.  I doubt anything will come of it.  Nothing ever comes of anything, and third-term PMs usually wind up being pretty arrogant.  Chretien was no exception.  I still liked him better than the alternatives, though.  Those being Martin (Chretien's successor), Preston Manning (founder of the RefoooOOOooorm party), Stockwell Day (dude in charge of the neo-reform party, aka Canadian Alliance), and... that dude who plays Rugby.  Although I think he became disgraced before getting anywhere near becoming leader of the opposition.  And the furthest left mainstream party, the NDP, really isn't fit to be anything other than a balancing force in parliament.  I dread to see what they'd do if they actually came into power.
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Offline Eral

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #209 on: November 18, 2005, 02:12:06 AM »
I like the broad range of choices you have. Vote for the NDP - they will never come into government, and will prevent the ruling party from doing anything too arrogant.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #210 on: November 18, 2005, 02:14:21 AM »
That's what I do, yeah.  The best situation, as I see it, is a minority Liberal government, with the NDP holding enough seats to be the balance of power against the Conservative opposition.  Screw the fuckers from Quebec.  Damn separatists.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #211 on: November 18, 2005, 12:51:24 PM »
Whenever I see Jack Layton speak, I feel like he's trying to sell me a car. Stephen Harper doesn't have very much charisma, unfortunately. I wonder if he is too young to be taken very seriously? Martin seems to fit into his role as a leader than the other two men.

I have to say that I find it silly and annoying whenever any of them randomly breaks off into French when speaking. Just seems to be pandering to the Quebecois.

Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #212 on: November 19, 2005, 02:15:12 AM »
Yeah, Layton definitely isn't my favourite guy ever, either.  His head seems in the clouds more than anything else.  Unlike a car salesman, however, I think he actually means what he says, despite how impractical it may be.  Harper, on the other hand, makes my skin crawl.  As leader of the opposition he calls the government on all sorts of negative things, but were he in power, he'd be doing just that and more, I have no doubt.  Shudder.

As for the french stuff, I think what you're seeing is just them saying the same thing they said in english, only for the francophone folks.  Which is cool by me, since yeah, they live in our country and everything.  It's not like they're saying "Tax hikes everyone, sorry" in english, and then in french, "Allo allo!  Les tax cuts, oui?"
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Offline Joe

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #213 on: November 19, 2005, 02:35:18 PM »
Hahaha, yeah I know why they do it. It just seems odd. Aren't the only francophones in Quebec?

Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #214 on: November 20, 2005, 03:23:27 AM »
Yeah, but both french and english are the official languages, so for official speeches...  I dunno.  Maybe you need to be Canadian to understand it.  It doesn't bother me.  I think it only really bothers western separatists, who feel all alienated, and are bitter that the Quebecois are better at raising a stink than they are.
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #215 on: November 20, 2005, 06:37:03 AM »
Presumedly because the Quebecans can kick up a stink in french.
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Offline Eral

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #216 on: November 21, 2005, 12:43:03 AM »
Why is the idea of a state seceding so unsettling to people? Loss of resources? Diminished culture? Loss of power? Dislike of change? Loss of a sense of wholeness? Years ago a loony group in Queensland starting agitating for Queensland to secede from the Federation, and got quite a lot of coverage. Despite the fact it was an inherently ludicrous idea, many people were very upset. I think some of the hostility the Quebec seperatists face from people outside their culture, is due to the inferiority complex the French language seems to generate in some people. Strange, because it's a beautiful language.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #217 on: November 21, 2005, 12:56:50 AM »
When it's the province I live in, I don't want it to secede from my country.  As for Quebec, well, it'd probably be better for Canada, actually.  We spend a lot of money there in the form of corporate handouts and stuff, to keep the economy functioning.

On the other side of things, there's the fact that unity's probably a better thing to strive for than dischord (not that I want Canada to meld with the States, mind you).  I can't imagine things would be all that great if Quebec seceded and it turned out their country went to hell.  The anglo/franco hate would just get worse.  I'd be sad to lose Montreal, too.  I'd like to visit it someday, but not if it's part of an anti-english state.  The language laws in Quebec are already a bit scary.  Or were, last time I heard anything about them.  Actually, maybe you'd better not come to me for opinions on Canada, since I'm really not all that up-to-date on everything.
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Offline Eral

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #218 on: November 21, 2005, 01:12:12 AM »
Yeah, maybe it's the idea of unity that is so important. (You couldn't meld with the US. Two diffeent countries, two different histories.)  Perhaps the problem arises when hatred of the dominant culture is the reason for the desire for secession. And how long the state in question has been a part of the country.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #219 on: November 21, 2005, 04:05:48 PM »
I think that a French culture, no matter where it is, will be deeply entrenched and hostile to outside influence whether or not it is dominant. Look at the "purification" that the French language undergoes every so often in France and the laws regarding language in Quebec, for example.

Offline Eral

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #220 on: November 21, 2005, 06:04:49 PM »
People are allowed to be proud of their culture, and protecting a language so that it retains its essential elements, is not hostile. Chirac didn't say "non" to Bush when he was invited to the war in Iraq because the French hate everybody and are bad, bad people. He did it because they didn't think it was a good idea. If John Howard had guts, he would have said "no", too, and Republicans would be despising Australians and churning out a list of our cultural faults.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #221 on: November 21, 2005, 06:27:43 PM »
Don't you get all defensive now.  I think everyone, both socialist and fascist, can agree that the French are terrible, terrible people. :)

Okay!  Is joke!  But really, I think there's a point where preserving a language goes too far.  Sure, you need signs in french for francophone residents, but why does it have to be X percent larger than the english lettering?  That's discrimination against the anglos.  It's all very puzzling.
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #222 on: November 21, 2005, 07:38:45 PM »
People are allowed to be proud of their culture, and protecting a language so that it retains its essential elements, is not hostile. Chirac didn't say "non" to Bush when he was invited to the war in Iraq because the French hate everybody and are bad, bad people. He did it because they didn't think it was a good idea. If John Howard had guts, he would have said "no", too, and Republicans would be despising Australians and churning out a list of our cultural faults.
I think you mean if John Howard wasn't a facist little shit.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #223 on: November 21, 2005, 07:49:56 PM »
People are allowed to be proud of their culture, and protecting a language so that it retains its essential elements, is not hostile. Chirac didn't say "non" to Bush when he was invited to the war in Iraq because the French hate everybody and are bad, bad people. He did it because they didn't think it was a good idea.

Right, it wasn't financially a good idea for Chirac. Also, Chirac has been essentially trying to restore France to its former glory on the world stage and, through the European Union, counter the influence of the United States in the world.


Quote
If John Howard had guts, he would have said "no", too, and Republicans would be despising Australians and churning out a list of our cultural faults.

Why does Howard have to be gutless? Why couldn't he have agreed that the war was necessary?

Offline Eral

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #224 on: November 22, 2005, 02:30:14 AM »
Joe, it wasn't a financially good idea for anyone. And I say, hurray for the French if that is what they are doing. GW has gotten just a little too big for his britches.
It is becoming very clear now that the excuses for the war were lies - lies, Joe, not a mistake - and we knew ages ago that Little Johnny and his mates knew they were lies. Therefore I say he was gutless - because he rolled and did what GW wanted, rather than following the course set by the UN. Vel's point about Johnny being a fascist little shit is pertinent to this discussion. 

Ghrey, I am trying to avoid defending the rep of the French when it comes to being kind to tourists, as I'm not sure it can be done successfully. The signs are meant to discriminate against English speakers. They do it in Wales and Ireland too.
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