Author Topic: The Intellect Thread  (Read 16499 times)

Offline jester

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2005, 02:01:27 PM »
LLamas tend not to let go of their caffeine easily!!! This may be due to the awkward extraction process needed.

This formula suggest that you can rather subtract caffeine from happiness and get a llama as a result. So people who get their kicks from something else might still not be on the safe side when they claim to be vegetarian.
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Offline Bons

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2005, 02:16:20 PM »
Yes, caffeine plus llamabons equals happiness was the gist of it.

LLamas tend not to let go of their caffeine easily!!! This may be due to the awkward extraction process needed.

The whole manipulation of a coffee mug with hooves is very awkward, but try to take away a llama's latte, and inevitably, there will be spitting.

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Offline Dark Raven

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2005, 04:34:04 PM »
Murder most foul. My Intellect thread is FUBAR!!!!!!!!!  :(
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Offline icelus

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2005, 05:08:40 PM »
I always thought caffeine + alpaca = llama.
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Offline Dark Raven

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2005, 05:10:48 PM »
I hate you.  :D

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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2005, 05:12:13 PM »
I always thought caffeine + alpaca = llama.

That was proven to be bad science back in the 90s.  Turns out it was just a dromedary farmers lobby group trying to ply its agenda in Washington, while scaring the public about the dangers of the alpacallama threat.
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Offline Dark Raven

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2005, 05:18:26 PM »
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Per me si va nella citta dolente.
Per me si va nell eterno dolore.
Per me si va tra la perduta gente...
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Offline jester

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2005, 05:30:38 PM »
For Sim:

La llama es un cuadrúpedo que vive en ríos grandes como el Amazonas. Tiene dos orejas, un corazón, una frente, y un pico para comer miel. Pero esta provisto de aletas para nadar. Las llamas son más grandes que las ranas. Las llamas son pericolosas (although he should have said peligrosas), así que si ve una donde hay gente nadando, usted grite: Cuidado, hay llamas!

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Offline Eral

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2005, 06:28:51 PM »
Borsook: I am honoured to have seemed to present a wild theory on Will. Hand me my tweed jacket - the patches are de riguer. Will I have to smoke a pipe?

Shakespeare did use the formula for play structures of his time, in common with other writers. I don't know enough about Marlowe, Johnson et al to make comparisons between them and WS, but I have thought the reason WS is still read in schools now is not only the beauty of his language, but his characters are very human - they make mistakes, they are vain, they do not see what is before them, they are hard-hearted, etc - but we still like them, because they also have admirable qualities.
Is this complexity of character a feature of other writers of the time, or are their characters clearly divided into Good and Bad? WS certainly didn't invent a new form of theatre - but he made it compelling and immediate. It may not be revolutionary - but it's great.

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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2005, 07:25:27 PM »
and NightmareMyDarling's inability to say oops.
An inability we apparently share, unless I missed your apology for you thinking someone was/some people were complaining about the endings to Shakespeare's plays, when in fact no-one was?
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Offline Loriel

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2005, 07:27:29 PM »
Shall we get back to the topic?

Llamas - coffee = ameobas. ::)

Offline Dark Raven

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2005, 07:59:15 PM »

Shakespeare did use the formula for play structures of his time, in common with other writers. I don't know enough about Marlowe, Johnson et al to make comparisons between them and WS, but I have thought the reason WS is still read in schools now is not only the beauty of his language, but his characters are very human - they make mistakes, they are vain, they do not see what is before them, they are hard-hearted, etc - but we still like them, because they also have admirable qualities.
Is this complexity of character a feature of other writers of the time, or are their characters clearly divided into Good and Bad? WS certainly didn't invent a new form of theatre - but he made it compelling and immediate. It may not be revolutionary - but it's great.
I agree. The writers of the day developed their characters more so than the writers of now, perhaps too much for our short attention span. His works leave a lasting impression. The Shakspeare quotes that I used are from memory during literature/drama classes in high school or in the movies.
Per me si va nella citta dolente.
Per me si va nell eterno dolore.
Per me si va tra la perduta gente...
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Offline Joe

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2005, 08:14:25 PM »
Willst du bist zum Töt der Scheide, sie lieben auch für alle Tage?

Offline Dark Raven

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2005, 08:24:54 PM »
Vas?
Per me si va nella citta dolente.
Per me si va nell eterno dolore.
Per me si va tra la perduta gente...
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Offline Andyr

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2005, 08:30:06 PM »
Willst du bist zum Töt der Scheide, sie lieben auch für alle Tage?

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Offline Bons

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2005, 08:33:04 PM »
unless I missed your apology for you thinking someone was/some people were complaining about the endings to Shakespeare's plays, when in fact no-one was?

Oh, I will! I will! When I saw RSC performing "Two Gentlemen of Verona," I was struck by how much I disliked the sloppy ending. It was a comedy, therefore the lovers must be shoehorned and united, rather than dead, even though it devalues the play and characters of depth. Proteus is a scoundrel and a bounder, unfaithful to his avowed love, Julia, as well as his avowed best-friend, Valentine. Julia witnesses this while she is in her disguise as the boy Sebastian. She hears Proteus scorn her and Valentine as he tries to win Silvia's favors behind their backs, and she endures his request to give the other woman a token of his affection as well. Throughout everything, Julia remains doltishly enamored of Proteus, even after he threatens to rape Silvia. If that wasn't bad enough (it could have been a decent setup for tragedy or a villain's comeuppance), after all Proteus's inconstancy and proclamations that his love for Julia has died, within a dozen couplets of the rape threat, Proteus is declaring his burning passion for Julia again! Likewise, Valentine forgives his actions against Silvia just as swiftly so that everyone can make nice by the curtain fall. Gaaah! TGoV was Shakespeare's earliest comedic play, and the clumsy nonsense ending shows it. 
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Offline Dark Raven

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2005, 08:44:55 PM »
I lost my intelect at teh moment. Feel as if I'm floating right now ,feels so good
Per me si va nella citta dolente.
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Offline Borsook

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2005, 01:53:46 AM »
For Sim:

La llama es un cuadrúpedo que vive en ríos grandes como el Amazonas. Tiene dos orejas, un corazón, una frente, y un pico para comer miel. Pero esta provisto de aletas para nadar. Las llamas son más grandes que las ranas. Las llamas son pericolosas (although he should have said peligrosas), así que si ve una donde hay gente nadando, usted grite: Cuidado, hay llamas!
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Offline Borsook

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2005, 02:07:27 AM »
Borsook: I am honoured to have seemed to present a wild theory on Will. Hand me my tweed jacket - the patches are de riguer. Will I have to smoke a pipe?

Shakespeare did use the formula for play structures of his time, in common with other writers. I don't know enough about Marlowe, Johnson et al to make comparisons between them and WS, but I have thought the reason WS is still read in schools now is not only the beauty of his language, but his characters are very human - they make mistakes, they are vain, they do not see what is before them, they are hard-hearted, etc - but we still like them, because they also have admirable qualities.
Is this complexity of character a feature of other writers of the time, or are their characters clearly divided into Good and Bad? WS certainly didn't invent a new form of theatre - but he made it compelling and immediate. It may not be revolutionary - but it's great.
WS stands out from other writers of the period in that his plays are more of a coherent unity. Let me explain, most writers wrote for a specific theatre and specific cast. People like Marlow were much better than WS at using actors (and probably worked with better ones). Knowing this the writers started sorta overusing their skill, concentration on monologues and soliloques. Look at e.g. Doctor Faustus, Faustus' speaches, especially when delivered by the person meant to do so shook the audience, but the rest of the play suffered, it was just to make a context for the protagonist, nothing more. Not so with Shakespeare in his plays, they're not dominated by one character to such an extreme, this paradoxically (at least it's a paradox from WS's conterporaries point of view) makes his protagonists more flesh and bone due to relations with other well drawn not just sketched characters. Also what might help WS in the long run is that he was not trying hard for originality, for example Othello is practically rewritten from an ealier work (though he changed the ending, in original Iago is left "unpunished"). These original works being forgotten (hell Hamlet is also not invented by WS) to us WS seems far more creative then he was. BTW these are solely my views and conclusions many "scholars" would not agree.

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Offline Eral

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2005, 04:03:00 AM »
WS seemed to have different standards for his comedies. The misguided and /or wicked often get off lightly. The Fool and Andrew Aguecheek get away with imprisoning Malvolio in Twelth Night, see Bon's comments on Two Gentlemen of Verona, the Duke of Orsino and Olivia are rewarded for their blindness to reality in Twelfth Night - and yet emotionally these are very satisfying plays. They're fun, and everyone lives happily ever after. In his tragedies, we regret the bad ends everyone comes to, but intellectually, these very satisfying plays. Justice and fate are very strong themes. The Merchant of Venice and The Taming of the Shrew are perhaps two of the plays least easy to accommodate today: but the sympathy we feel for Shylock at the end, and the possibility that Katerina's spirit is not entirely beaten down (though I may be more hopeful than realistic on that one) suggest reasons for the longevity of WS plays.

The tradition of playwrights of the time was to take known tales and retell them. But WS didn't just recycle a story - he made characters come alive and brought both poetry and slapstick to his audience. His ability to provide for both ends of the cultural spectrum was masterful. I have read various debates about whether William could have written all his plays - given that he was an uneducated man. I wonder how accessible texts were to him - his circle of friends included the priveleged, and maybe he did have access to far more learning than may be first assumed.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2005, 06:29:28 AM by Eral »
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Offline Evaine Dian

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2005, 04:54:10 AM »
Joe, you must improve your German if you want to keep your title.

One theory says that "William Shakespeare" was the pen-name of an aristocrate called Edward de Vere who had nothing to do with the man from Stratford upon Avon. If this is true, he would have had a good education.


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« Last Edit: October 23, 2005, 05:00:03 AM by Evaine Dian »
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Offline Eral

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2005, 06:54:07 AM »
I am intrigued by this idea - and I am more partial to Eddie De Vere than Marlowe, Johnson or Bacon. But the socialist part of me wants to believe that Will wasa poetical genius, and not just a front man for someone else. The point that WS was an uneducated son of a butcher or whatever, and did not have access to a classical education, suggesting that he would find it difficult to create plays based on history and traditions in literacy, is a powerful one. But, there is nothing to say he didn't have access to these things through his theatrical experience and friendships with people belonging to the educated classes. Why couldn't he have educated himself through reading and exposure through his experience in the theatre and among his friends? Maybe he was very very smart.
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Offline Borsook

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2005, 07:14:25 AM »
Somebody (and yes, I forgotten who) was convinced that he was a she, i.e. that WS as such existed but was mearly a pawn in a hands of a woman who could not do it under her name (considering how "sinful" theatre was regarded at the time a presence of a woman in it would not end as popular modern comedies).

PS. In my rumbling I was exluding WS comedies, which I hate and tend to pretend they've never existed.
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Offline Joe

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2005, 12:12:25 PM »
Joe, you must improve your German if you want to keep your title.

:'(

Offline Eral

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Re: The Intellect Thread
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2005, 06:30:15 AM »
Since I know nothing about German I am returning to the topic of Shakespeare.
Hatred for Shakespeare's comedies is common - but I have always loved them. They are such a window to the theatre of the time with their deus ex machina resolutions - and I like way Will shamelessly panderedto the coarser elements in his audience with the slapstick scenes. His comedies have the same beautiful imagery and poetry, the same flawed misguided characters - and no-one dies. As You Like It and Twelfth Night are my favourites.
One question for haters of WS comedies - does that include Merchant of Venice? The Tempest? Because they're not among his tragedies. And what about Midsummer's Night Dream?
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