Author Topic: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!  (Read 20869 times)

Ding0

  • Guest
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2005, 10:22:32 AM »
Anybody who's spent months producing a humorous fanfic should probably look into other hobbies, yes. You simply can't ignore the time factor. The mod is clearly the result of a significant amount of work. The forum has been active a year-- that's multiple Quest Packs, or a Kelsey or so. Which would *you* say was better use of time? And that's discounting the number of developers. I really dread to think of the things that could have been produced in a similar period. If there's anybody out there who'd rather have one immersion-breaking comedy mod than a score of new quests, then they are more than welcome to consume my member, since I know what I'll be encouraging people to make. In the meantime, please continue to defend the practice. Maybe you'll get Igi to release another Game-be-Gone or something. :)

Offline Borsook

  • off topic
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1679
  • Gender: Male
  • not a badger
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2005, 10:27:20 AM »
Come oi! BG as such includes many a comic element, some of them (Minsc-Boo) in the foreground... It's not the most serious RPG there is...
"Borsook seems like a pretty cool guy who offers his insight where appropriate... just very, very frequently." - Imrahil

Borsook's Chambers - Home of Borsook's Mods

Offline Borsook

  • off topic
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1679
  • Gender: Male
  • not a badger
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2005, 10:30:53 AM »
Anybody who's spent months producing a humorous fanfic should probably look into other hobbies, yes. You simply can't ignore the time factor. The mod is clearly the result of a significant amount of work. The forum has been active a year-- that's multiple Quest Packs, or a Kelsey or so. Which would *you* say was better use of time? And that's discounting the number of developers. I really dread to think of the things that could have been produced in a similar period. If there's anybody out there who'd rather have one immersion-breaking comedy mod than a score of new quests, then they are more than welcome to consume my member, since I know what I'll be encouraging people to make. In the meantime, please continue to defend the practice. Maybe you'll get Igi to release another Game-be-Gone or something. :)
The time argument assumes that the said people would do in that time a serious mod should they not be doing a comedy one. This assumption may be flawed, they might have spent the year eating peanuts or/and watching programmes about monkeys ;). So we may have a case: either we have a comedy mod or one mod less, and I say it doesn't hurt to have one more, whatever it may be.
"Borsook seems like a pretty cool guy who offers his insight where appropriate... just very, very frequently." - Imrahil

Borsook's Chambers - Home of Borsook's Mods

Offline NiGHTMARE

  • Idiot
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2005, 10:34:27 AM »
Personally I'd much rather have new quests than a bunch of flirts (come on, this is an RPG not the Sims!) or a romance for an Bioware NPC, but as I said no-one has the right to go around telling other modders what they should and shouldn't be doing (well, unless the other modder(s) are part of a team you're the leader of, or whatever ;)).
« Last Edit: October 12, 2005, 10:42:52 AM by NiGHTMARE »
The Gibberlings Three - home to the BG1 NPC Project, BG2 Tweak Pack, Divine Remix, GemRB, Lands of Intrigue, Song & Silence, and many more!

Offline Exodus

  • 1 half of the omg we are teh funy team
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 116
  • Gender: Male
  • Redhead
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2005, 10:46:56 AM »
I'd go so far as stating that IWD is possibly a more immersive game when holding games up to that yard stick.

And having that concept as the barometer on which mods have to measured can be potentially damaging.  Not all deviance is a bad thing.
Public Warning - Seifer is one half of the crack elite team recognised by JC as the "omg we are teh funy" team!  You have been warned!

http://www.omgwearetehfuny.net

Ding0

  • Guest
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2005, 10:48:16 AM »
Quote
Personally I'd much rather have new quests than a bunch of flirts (come on, this is an RPG not the Sims!) or a romance for an Bioware NPC, but as I said no-one has the right to go around telling other modders what they should and shouldn't be doing (well, unless the other modder(s) are part of a team you're the leader of, or whatever ).
Yes, I fully concede that we are in no position to stop people producing awful mods. However, I do not agree that we should all just sit around saying "great job guys, when's the next one coming?" If somebody fucks around producing nonsense for a year, I suggest telling them what you think so they don't do it again, not congratulating them on their efforts or tiptoeing around with your politically correct gear on. I repeat that if you want to defend the production of awful joke mods, then fine, I can only assume you enjoy them better than the alternatives. Otherwise, maybe you should consider encouraging SC to finish Khadion or something.

Offline NiGHTMARE

  • Idiot
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2005, 11:03:06 AM »
Since it's highly doubtful anyone is forced into making a mod (awful or otherwise), chances are good that they actually want to work on it.  For me, that's reason enough to let them get on with it; I'm a strong subscriber to the philosophy that if you're producing a mod as hobby, the primary target audience should be yourself, with other people being a secondary concern.  Besides, if someone wants to work on a mod, why would someone else coming along and telling them they shouldn't do so suddenly change their minds? All you're really doing is wasting your own time... which of course *you* could better spend working on mods :P.

Also, whether this particular mod is an "awful joke mod" is a subjective opinion belonging to yourself and a few others, not an objective fact.  Clearly other people disagree with that assessment, including the mod makers.  Why should anyone besides yourself gave any more weight to your opinion than any others?
The Gibberlings Three - home to the BG1 NPC Project, BG2 Tweak Pack, Divine Remix, GemRB, Lands of Intrigue, Song & Silence, and many more!

Ding0

  • Guest
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2005, 11:21:22 AM »
Quote
For me, that's reason enough to let them get on with it; I'm a strong subscriber to the philosophy that if you're producing a mod as hobby, the primary target audience should be yourself, with other people being a secondary concern.
But that doesn't explain why you think we should all sit back and let the congratulations flow in, rather than letting the authors know what we think. Are you, perhaps, deep down, arguing that we should withold our negative criticisms?

Quote
If someone wants to work on a mod, why would someone else coming along and telling them they shouldn't do so suddenly change their minds?
Because in the case of joke mods, the aim is to provoke an audience reaction. Igi doesn't release Game-be-Gones so he can enjoy them in the comfort of his own front room.

Quote
Also, whether this particular mod is an "awful joke mod" is a subjective opinion belonging to yourself and a few others, not an objective fact.  Clearly other people disagree with that assessment, including the mod makers.  Why should anyone besides yourself gave any more weight to your opinion than any others?
My apologies for the unclear phrasing. Perhaps you'll understand better if I say:

Quote
Yes, I fully concede that we are in no position to stop people producing mods which I think might be awful in my subjective opinion (although I fully respect anybody else's right to disagree with me). However, I do not agree that we should all just sit around saying "great job guys, when's the next one coming?" If somebody fucks around producing nonsense for a year, I suggest telling them what you think so they don't do it again, not congratulating them on their efforts or tiptoeing around with your politically correct gear on. I repeat that if you want to defend the production of awful joke mods, then fine, I can only assume you enjoy them better than the alternatives. Otherwise, maybe you should consider encouraging SC to finish Khadion or something.

Ding0

  • Guest
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2005, 11:28:22 AM »
And I see Seifer's seen fit to point people to this thread before the vote in the poll I started on Studios. I can only conclude that he's slightly worried about what the outcome would be if people don't see what meanies we are here.

Offline NiGHTMARE

  • Idiot
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2005, 11:31:10 AM »
You've yet to explain how, if a mod maker wanted to work on the original mod and personally likes the end results, telling him what you think will preventing him from making similar mods in the future.  To me, complaining about something which isn't going to change is a waste of time, time which could have been spent making a new quest instead.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2005, 11:37:19 AM by NiGHTMARE »
The Gibberlings Three - home to the BG1 NPC Project, BG2 Tweak Pack, Divine Remix, GemRB, Lands of Intrigue, Song & Silence, and many more!

Offline Borsook

  • off topic
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1679
  • Gender: Male
  • not a badger
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2005, 11:43:57 AM »
Mod community in which every mod regardless of its quality is praised is not my favourite model. But personally I also dislike the aproach: "I've never played or seen/heard part of this mod but I think it's awful cause it's supposed to make people laugh :-X Now this is my favourite game and I don't wanna hear any laughter!" and this is basically what has been said.
"Borsook seems like a pretty cool guy who offers his insight where appropriate... just very, very frequently." - Imrahil

Borsook's Chambers - Home of Borsook's Mods

Offline NiGHTMARE

  • Idiot
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2005, 11:46:36 AM »
I've no problem with people commenting on the quality of mods, but telling modders what mods they should and should not be working on is something else entirely.
The Gibberlings Three - home to the BG1 NPC Project, BG2 Tweak Pack, Divine Remix, GemRB, Lands of Intrigue, Song & Silence, and many more!

Ding0

  • Guest
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2005, 12:05:02 PM »
You've yet to explain how, if a mod maker wanted to work on the original mod and personally likes the end results, telling him what you think will preventing him from making similar mods in the future. 
Well, there was the bit where I mention how joke mods are primarily attention-seeking devices, or the previous discussions where I note that better modders tend to accomodate criticism rather than shrug it off.

Quote
To me, complaining about something which isn't going to change is a waste of time, time which could have been spent making a new quest instead.
You may well ask what I'm doing inbetween posts here. The answer would be "incorporating Bons' IM entry into Quest Pack" interspersed with "cooking sausages". I'd estimate I've spent maybe 5 minutes total actively writing posts here, which is really nothing compared to the potential development time of a Jerry Zinger followup. (Incidentally, do you want a Jerry Zinger followup, or are you not allowed to say in case somebody cries?)

Quote
But personally I also dislike the aproach: "I've never played or seen/heard part of this mod but I think it's awful cause it's supposed to make people laugh
I have a major problem with this reasoning. It's an argument that's been used since the start of the thread, but it's also essentially meaningless. I don't need to play the mod to identify that it's a fourth wall-breaking humour mod. Not dissimilarly, I haven't tried sleeping with men, but I'm fairly sure I wouldn't like it.

Quote
I've no problem with people commenting on the quality of mods, but telling modders what mods they should and should not be working on is something else entirely.
So I'm supposed to say "I dislike this mod, but please, carry on making it anyway"? That sounds plain daft to me.

Offline icelus

  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2005, 12:14:12 PM »
Immersion, humor, waste of time issues aside, IT'S STILL BASED ON GODDAMNED JERRY SPRINGER!!!  :'(
<Moongaze> Luckily BWL has a very understanding and friendly admin.

Offline NiGHTMARE

  • Idiot
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2005, 12:15:50 PM »
So I'm supposed to say "I dislike this mod, but please, carry on making it anyway"? That sounds plain daft to me.

No, you're supposed to realize that people aren't going to stop working on mods which they want to work on just because someone else tells them to.  Continue telling them what they should and should't do if you really, really want to, but understand that they're probably going to ignore you, and simply carry on doing whatever it is they obviously enjoy doing instead.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2005, 12:19:51 PM by NiGHTMARE »
The Gibberlings Three - home to the BG1 NPC Project, BG2 Tweak Pack, Divine Remix, GemRB, Lands of Intrigue, Song & Silence, and many more!

Ding0

  • Guest
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2005, 12:17:52 PM »
I'm not going to cease posting my opinions [on Studios management], but that doesn't stop you from trying to stop me. Is there some difference here?

Offline NiGHTMARE

  • Idiot
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2005, 12:20:39 PM »
I'm not trying to stop you doing any thing, I'm just trying to help you realize that certain things (such as telling people what mods they should work on, criticizing another site's forum policy, etc) are highly unlikely to have any of the results you wish them to (unless of course your desire is to stir up ill-feelings, but I'm happy to say it's probably not).  If you ever come to that realization, and you yourself decide to stop, that'll be entirely your decision.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2005, 12:24:33 PM by NiGHTMARE »
The Gibberlings Three - home to the BG1 NPC Project, BG2 Tweak Pack, Divine Remix, GemRB, Lands of Intrigue, Song & Silence, and many more!

Ding0

  • Guest
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2005, 12:21:56 PM »
That sounds awfully subjective to me.

Offline icelus

  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2005, 12:24:21 PM »
Who the fuck made you "He Who Decides What's Positive and What's Not"?  You also forgot your signature patronizing smiley.  Here--borrow one.   :)
<Moongaze> Luckily BWL has a very understanding and friendly admin.

Offline NiGHTMARE

  • Idiot
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2005, 12:26:44 PM »
Would you care to explain how I've decided what's positive and what not, or do you simply enjoy randomly insulting people and spitting out bad language? What's positive and what's negative behaviour should be prime examples of use of common sense.  Besides, I'd rather be "He Who Decides What's Positive and What's Not" than "He Who Decides What Mods Everyone Can And Cannot Work On".

Oh, and if your psyche is so messed up that you see people treating others in a condescending matter when in reality they're merely giving an indication that they're joking, I'm afraid that I'm not the one to blame for it.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2005, 12:31:42 PM by NiGHTMARE »
The Gibberlings Three - home to the BG1 NPC Project, BG2 Tweak Pack, Divine Remix, GemRB, Lands of Intrigue, Song & Silence, and many more!

Ding0

  • Guest
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2005, 12:36:18 PM »
Besides, I'd rather be "He Who Decides What's Positive and What's Not" than "He Who Decides What Mods Everyone Can And Cannot Work On".
There are some very weird factors at work here, because standing back:
- I've suggested that SC working on Jerry Zinger isn't a good idea.
- You've suggested that me posting like that isn't a good idea.
It doesn't take much to work out that we're actually doing the same thing. Why this suddenly means I'm trying to be a dictator and you're trying to send me on a journey of self-help, I'm not really sure.

Offline NiGHTMARE

  • Idiot
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2005, 12:41:31 PM »
But I've explained why I believe complaining about the types of mods other people are working on won't serve any useful purpose (i.e. it most likely won't stop them working on those types of mod, but it most likely will cause ill feelings all round - as this very thread has demonstrated), and there's a chance - slim perhaps, but still a chance - other people may understand and perhaps even agree with my reasoning.

From what I can see, the only reason you've given for not wanting other people to work on joke mods is that you personally prefer other types of mods, which - no offence to yourself - doesn't have all that much potential to influence other peoples' opinions.  If you really want to achieve your goal of less jokes / more quests, I'd suggest providing the people whose opinions you're attempting to influence with more and/or stronger reasons, ones which would have positive benefits for them; "it helps prevent flamewars" is perhaps a good start, though maybe not ideal.  I personally wouldn't be averse to seeing a PPG article entitled something like "10 reasons to make a quest mod".
« Last Edit: October 12, 2005, 12:50:55 PM by NiGHTMARE »
The Gibberlings Three - home to the BG1 NPC Project, BG2 Tweak Pack, Divine Remix, GemRB, Lands of Intrigue, Song & Silence, and many more!

Offline Kulyok

  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 6253
  • Gender: Female
  • The perfect moment is now.
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2005, 12:49:21 PM »
But I've actually explained why complaining about the types of *criticism* other people are *implying in their posts*  doesn't serve any useful purpose (i.e. it most likely won't stop them *from expressing their opinion*, but it most likely will cause ill feelings all round - as this very thread has demonstrated).  From what I can see, the only reason you've given for not wanting other people to *express their thoughts* on joke mods is that you prefer other types of *posts*.  If you really want to achieve your goal of less *criticism* / more *praise*, you're going to have to provide other *posters* with more reasons to do so, ones which would have positive benefits for them; "it helps prevent flamewars" is perhaps a good start...


Offline Kulyok

  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 6253
  • Gender: Female
  • The perfect moment is now.
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2005, 12:51:30 PM »
I shouldn't have posted the previous one. :) But that one broke my resolve:

Quote
Oh, and if your psyche is so messed up that you see people treating others in a condescending matter when in reality they're merely giving an indication that they're joking, I'm afraid that I'm not the one to blame for it.

It is very hard to tell when they are joking and when not. It doesn't mean one's psyche is messed up, it just means people are different. And no, I would not use a smiley here.

Offline NiGHTMARE

  • Idiot
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Jerry Zinger Show has been released!
« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2005, 12:51:39 PM »
From what I can see, the only reason you've given for not wanting other people to *express their thoughts* on joke mods is that you prefer other types of *posts*.
Apparently you can't see very well.

Quote
It is very hard to tell when they are joking and when not.
Of course, especially in a multicultural, purely non-verbal forum.  But the thing is, that's actually one of the main reasons smilies were invented in the first place.  My "apparently you can't see very welll" comment looks like an insult, but is intended to be a joke. However, since it's apparently more acceptable to appear insulting than to appear patronizing, I've left it without one.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2005, 12:57:17 PM by NiGHTMARE »
The Gibberlings Three - home to the BG1 NPC Project, BG2 Tweak Pack, Divine Remix, GemRB, Lands of Intrigue, Song & Silence, and many more!

 

With Quick-Reply you can write a post when viewing a topic without loading a new page. You can still use bulletin board code and smileys as you would in a normal post.

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

Name: Email:
Verification:
Type the letters shown in the picture
Listen to the letters / Request another image
Type the letters shown in the picture:
What color is grass?:
What is the seventh word in this sentence?:
What is five minus two (use the full word)?: