Author Topic: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?  (Read 3058 times)

Red Knight

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Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« on: October 16, 2005, 10:47:19 AM »
The title says it all. So, what's that all about?

Well, I was always irrated that my NPCs actually had so few things to say to each other when they departed from one another, especially Mazzy and Valygar after their little fling.
Also it would be nice to have some NPCs commenting after, for example Viconia gets kicked out, like "Good riddance" or "I'm glad she's gone, her presence lessened us all."
Some NPC could actually decide to write love letters to the PC, if they were once in a romance...or may be not.  ;)

Just an idea I had after an answer to a post of mine at CoM. I haven't seen this idea posted anywhere else around and since PPG is sort of, the pack specialist, no offence meant, I thought I'd check it out 'round here.

If no one is writing it but is interested in the idea, then the idea has no strings attached to it.  ;)

Offline Kulyok

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2005, 10:55:24 AM »
I guess it is a "gameplay convenience" versus "role-playing realism" thing.

Quote
Well, I was always irrated that my NPCs actually had so few things to say to each other when they departed from one another, especially Mazzy and Valygar after their little fling.

I think one of the most logical things would be having them departed together, or arguing with PC about it, but from a player's perspective, it might be bad. In BG1, many NPCs were coming in pairs: Minsc and Dynaheir, Montaron and Xzar, and it was quite annoying; I myself had to kill Jaheira and Dynaheir more than once.

Quote
Also it would be nice to have some NPCs commenting after, for example Viconia gets kicked out, like "Good riddance" or "I'm glad she's gone, her presence lessened us all."

Again, in BG1 there were REACT_TO_DIE_SPECIFIC, i.e. if Tiax died, Quayle let out a witty one-liner; same with Jaheira and Khalid, Safana and Coran, etc. That, for some reason, annoyed me a lot. (Though I am all right with REACT_TO_DIE_GENERAL, if it is not something like "No sorrow for those lost in righteous battles.")

Quote
Some NPC could actually decide to write love letters to the PC, if they were once in a romance...or may be not. 

"Dear Anomen,

I am fine. Well, Imoen has just gone crazy, I am slowly dying after having lost my soul, and Yoshimo... er, turned out he was a traitor, but it's okay, really. "



So, I think it would not work - for me, at least.

Offline Hide and Seek

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2005, 11:05:00 AM »
The title says it all. So, what's that all about?

Well, I was always irrated that my NPCs actually had so few things to say to each other when they departed from one another, especially Mazzy and Valygar after their little fling.
Also it would be nice to have some NPCs commenting after, for example Viconia gets kicked out, like "Good riddance" or "I'm glad she's gone, her presence lessened us all."
Some NPC could actually decide to write love letters to the PC, if they were once in a romance...or may be not.  ;)

Just an idea I had after an answer to a post of mine at CoM. I haven't seen this idea posted anywhere else around and since PPG is sort of, the pack specialist, no offence meant, I thought I'd check it out 'round here.

If no one is writing it but is interested in the idea, then the idea has no strings attached to it.  ;)
You know, I like this idea.
Specially the part about Viconia, that comment is a typical BG.

Since I'm no modder yet. I can only give my praise of the idea.
Favourite Quotes from BG2
Minsc: Minsc will lead with blade and boot! Boo will take care of the details.
Saemon: Pardon?
Aerie: This is gonna hurt you ALOT more than me!
Sarevok: Now I return the favor!
Drizzt: Yes, yes, you have my attention.
Lilarcor: And this one's for Grandma, who said I would never amount to anything more than a butterknife!

Offline fcm

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2005, 03:17:16 PM »

Again, in BG1 there were REACT_TO_DIE_SPECIFIC, i.e. if Tiax died, Quayle let out a witty one-liner; same with Jaheira and Khalid, Safana and Coran, etc. That, for some reason, annoyed me a lot. (Though I am all right with REACT_TO_DIE_GENERAL, if it is not something like "No sorrow for those lost in righteous battles.")

Quote
Some NPC could actually decide to write love letters to the PC, if they were once in a romance...or may be not. 


Oh my goodness, why? Xzar's "Monteron! I . . . (ha) I never loved you!" Was so good.
Imbriglicated!

Offline Kulyok

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2005, 03:31:09 PM »
Yeah, it was cool with Xzar... (dreamy smile)

But the point was, NPCs I generally loved suddenly were speaking with viciousness. Ajantis, Xan, Faldorn, Yeslick - and I got mad at them.

With Coran, Safana, Xzar it was good, 'cause it was humourous. But generally, especially if the character suffered "chunky death"(dies permanently) it was rather sad for me.


Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2005, 04:18:22 PM »
But the point was, NPCs I generally loved suddenly were speaking with viciousness. Ajantis, Xan, Faldorn, Yeslick - and I got mad at them.

Well, just because they're jerks doesn't mean you shouldn't make a mod in which they are equally jerky.  In fact, making a mod where an NPCs negative traits are ignored is probably something most people--I would hope--would strive to avoid.
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Offline Kulyok

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2005, 04:54:03 AM »
I fully agree, and would sign under these words myself. However, I am talking about a fairy narrow case, here: the reaction to the specific party member's death. I think that this design decision in BG1 is not perfect. While Edwin's reaction to Dynaheir's death makes all the sense in the world to me, as he was ready to kill her himself, other _negative_  reactions do not make that much sense. It is like the writers received the obligatory task of assigning a nasty line to each NPC for this occation, without bothering to provide through reasoning. Also, some of this lines carry humourous meaning, throwing me out of the game into reality with the speed of light. It is a matter of character interpretation, of course, but I find it difficult to believe that a character, if he/she is not a total jerk, would gloat over a death of the companion who covered their backs. Jaheira? Aerie? Yoshimo? Jan? I think not.

Offline Borsook

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2005, 05:21:56 AM »
I think it's a great idea, especially in the form originally proposed i.e. after an NPC being kicked out (somehow the discussion so far concentrated on dying). It may annoy some players who just want to get rid of an NPC quickly, but it'd be an optional mod, no forcing to install, right? The BG1 examples of bad/character inconcistent lines at NPCs dying are a good argument for making a mod which would have good/character consistent lines. Properly done this could increase immersion tenfold.
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Red Knight

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2005, 05:43:41 AM »
The case of death never realy occured to me since BG2 also implemented it using the voice set, afterall React_die_general is included in the voice set. Yeah, I didn't hear it much often and actually wonder if it's not one of these broken things.

As for the letters, I was talking from an NPC perspective rather than the PC, like:
"Dear Charname,

I returned safely to Amn but it proved a stressful journey, as I encountered many troubles along the way, including an incident with the cowled wizards which nearly ended my life...". :-Zzz

Although, the dialogs could be much better, the fact that she would have a new story to tell in a letter would make it far more interesting this way and far less ridiculous than the PC reading to himself "Dear Anomen". At least, food for thought but again, may be not.

On the concept itself, I was more thinking primarily of an implementation using interjections rather than a long argument with the PC about whether he/she should go. I'd also hate loosing my freedom to kick out whom I please just because two lovebirds won't part from one another anylonger. >:( If a couple of NPCs already bantered with each other and it resulted in developing a small fling or ill feelings, I think a remark or two by one when the other gets kicked out would fit in.  8)


Offline Kulyok

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2005, 05:49:41 AM »
Quote
I think it's a great idea, especially in the form originally proposed i.e. after an NPC being kicked out (somehow the discussion so far concentrated on dying). It may annoy some players who just want to get rid of an NPC quickly, but it'd be an optional mod, no forcing to install, right? The BG1 examples of bad/character inconcistent lines at NPCs dying are a good argument for making a mod which would have good/character consistent lines. Properly done this could increase immersion tenfold.

Quote
On the concept itself, I was more thinking primarily of an implementation using interjections rather than a long argument with the PC about whether he/she should go. I'd also hate loosing my freedom to kick out whom I please just because two lovebirds won't part from one another anylonger.  If a couple of NPCs already bantered with each other and it resulted in developing a small fling or ill feelings, I think a remark or two by one when the other gets kicked out would fit in. 

Yeah, I agree here, too. What I pointed out were inconsistend character death reactions, possible coupling of the NPC's, like in BG1 and love letters (I do not see it could be implemented flawlessly). Other than that, if limit NPC's reactions on kicking out to remarks and treat death reactions with care, it could work well, I think.

Red Knight

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2005, 06:58:14 AM »
Quote from: kulyok
 and love letters (I do not see it could be implemented flawlessly).

I disagree.

Letters could also have several other usage, and including in a romance where you'd have that new NPC after a few friendship talks, getting awfully quiet but sending you love letters, giving you the opportunity through perhaps, a quest, to find the mysterious sender, and finally discover it's actually that NPC or real surprise another in game non joinable character.  ;)

Another interesting possibility and instead of all those NPCs always staying around, they could use letters to tell you (let's say after 20 hours game time) that they'd finally decided to see that new play at the five flaggons, visit trademeet or take a stroll along the docks.  :-\

Offline jester

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2005, 07:00:32 AM »
@sending you love letters

Send mail to: Bhaalspawn, roaming about, Amn ? ::)
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Offline Kulyok

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2005, 07:04:27 AM »
I am not talking about the idea itself, but about technical implementation. It would be great, if DHL service existed in the Realms. But as it is - Anomen receives the news only when his sister's body had turned to ashes, the Magistrate's letter, too, arrives too late. I doubt regular letters would work. Besides, in the areas like Underdark, Spellhold or the Watcher's Keep mail delivery is rather undeveloped.

Offline Borsook

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2005, 07:47:27 AM »
I am not talking about the idea itself, but about technical implementation. It would be great, if DHL service existed in the Realms. But as it is - Anomen receives the news only when his sister's body had turned to ashes, the Magistrate's letter, too, arrives too late. I doubt regular letters would work. Besides, in the areas like Underdark, Spellhold or the Watcher's Keep mail delivery is rather undeveloped.
you could make the letters appear only let's say upon resting in an inn in cities (yeah, ok, city).
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Red Knight

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2005, 08:43:43 AM »
DHL? like in Delivered Home too Late? Nay! You could take a boy or a girl as a messenger, the delivery could also take the form of an old friend of Anomen in the paladin quarter, a bystander, and the tavern patron entrusted with the letter is a great idea because you are likely to stop at an inn in cities (thanks, Borsook). If the content of the letter is really important, you'd probably opt for a messenger but if not, I believe the bystander or the tavern patron will do.

On the "limit it to cities" issue, I fully agree, excluding Ust Natha and a few others, of course.

Offline Ashara

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2005, 10:14:58 AM »
While I think this is one of those 'when you are so sick of the game, you start inventing things' it was a common practice in both Roman world and Medieval time to leave the letters with the Temples/Orders. So it is concievable that after a few month in Amn, PC can have letters waiting for him either in one of the temples or in the Order.
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Red Knight

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2005, 11:25:17 AM »
While I think this is one of those 'when you are so sick of the game, you start inventing things'

While we moved slightly off topic with the letter issue, for my part mostly trying to make a point, I still view a few interjections with NPCs leaving the party as something amiss in the game, and which I would definitely download if it came as a prepackaged MOD.

Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Anyone working on a sort of "Farewell banter pack" at PPG?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2005, 12:38:02 PM »
@sending you love letters

Send mail to: Bhaalspawn, roaming about, Amn ? ::)

Hey, the messengers from the Keep, and to find Anomen, and etc. all find you.
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