Author Topic: Change Finch's Identify Ability?  (Read 4440 times)

Offline Bons

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Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« on: August 29, 2005, 10:03:51 PM »
This is something we've discussed some in workroom -- whether or not to adjust Finch's Identify ability. I thought giving Finch Glasses of Identification would be too powerful for Tutu, but her three round spell of 100 Lore can manage quite a few more IDs than the straight glasses, which breaks my underpowered heart.

One persistent problem with implementing her ability is that Identify is hardcoded.  The Glasses of ID and Scrolls cannot be altered in any way without breaking them. I can't give Finch the glasses and make the item unremoveable outside scripting, and I'm wary of potential stutter. My alternatives are currently:

1) Leave Finch's identify ability as is.
2) Change Finch's identify ability to a lore increase per level.
3) Shorten the duration of Finch's identify ability.
4) Give Finch Glasses of Identification, and try scripting a blindness effect if the glasses are removed.
5) Eat some pie.

Since I'm working on the next release, I'd appreciate feedback on this issue. Nothing really seems the ideal implementation to me at this point.



Newt had always suspected that people who regularly used the word "community" were using it in a very specific sense that excluded him and everyone he knew.

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Offline Borsook

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2005, 12:11:23 AM »
Maybe 2? I often play bards, and high lore is very powerful indeed, the problem is how much? Should she have lore higher then a bard?
It'd be a pity to break the balance or smth... unless we go for 5! It does seem promising!
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2005, 01:10:56 AM »
I like both 4 and 5.
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Jesseth

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2005, 10:35:48 AM »
I'm real new to Tutu and really, really new to Finch (since I just found adopted her yesterday!) so take my words for what they are worth :-X

I think your answer depends on where Finch get's the ability from. Why can finch do this? because she's a book-worm? because of the glasses? To me, that would give you the answer. If she can identify things because she reads a lot, then it should be a lore thing. If it is because of magic glasses, then obviously it should be tied to the glasses. If it is a freak of nature or a gift of the Gods then you're free to incorporate it however you want. I'm just looking at this from a role-playing perspective.

By the way, I think Finch is cool and love her ability to identify things. I like the fact it is only limited for 3 turns. That seems neater than her being able to do it all the time. I guess I have looked at it as a special gift she had from the God's that is limited (like some other character's special abilities).

I wish I had some pie, though, that would settle everything...

Offline Bons

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2005, 07:27:52 PM »
Maybe 2? I often play bards, and high lore is very powerful indeed, the problem is how much? Should she have lore higher then a bard?
It'd be a pity to break the balance or smth... unless we go for 5! It does seem promising!

She wouldn't have higher lore than a bard. Slightly less or equivalent per level if I went this route.

I think your answer depends on where Finch get's the ability from. Why can finch do this? because she's a book-worm? because of the glasses? To me, that would give you the answer. If she can identify things because she reads a lot, then it should be a lore thing. If it is because of magic glasses, then obviously it should be tied to  the glasses.

Finch wears glasses because she can't see without them. :)

The identify skill is because she's a cleric of Deneir. It can manifest either because she's a bookworm in a higher lore than the average cleric, or because she's granted the ability from her god. Either one will fit as an explanation, I just need to commit to the implementation.

Originally, my plan had been to edit the glasses of Identification down to one use per day, make them unremoveable so I didn't have to worry about poor, blind Tweetybar, and kill two birds with one stone. Then I found out Identify is hardcoded. Soooo annoying.

One downside to giving Finch the Glasses of ID and scripting her blindness when they are taken off is I wouldn't be able to personalize the item description.


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Offline SimDing0

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2005, 07:43:37 PM »
What stops you putting them on Finch and making them undroppable? (And why not personalize the description too, since Glasses of ID don't show up in BG1 normally.)

Offline Bons

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2005, 08:17:47 PM »
That's what I have now. Or at least, she's wearing undroppable glasses that used to be Glasses of Identification.

The uses of Identify that function on the original glasses do not work when I make it undroppable, therefore any Identify ability has to be added as a separate custom unit.
Changing the the Identify Spelll from Wizard to Innate breaks its function. The same thing goes when I've tried adapting the wizard scroll so it's usable by a priest.

I'm working under the assumption that, if I can't alter the moveability, name, charges, or usability of the glasses, changing the description string is likely to have a similiar problem.
Newt had always suspected that people who regularly used the word "community" were using it in a very specific sense that excluded him and everyone he knew.

             --Neil Gaiman, Terry Pratchett, "Good Omens"

Offline Borsook

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2005, 12:53:05 AM »
Do I understand corectly that flag Undroppable breaks item effect identify? But without it it works? Then why not just leave glasses as droppable? Is her eyesight that bad? If so, than lower her DEX and possilby Wisdom and make the glasses give bonus to those stats, so the player will be able to take them off/throw away, but then she'll have some problems. I mean I have -7 glasses, I see shit without them but I could take them off and wouldn't die (at least untill first attempt of street crossing)
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flem

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2005, 02:29:08 AM »
I don't think shortening the duration will do much; with BG2's pause-in-inventory she can pretty much ID everything everyone is carrying in no game time.

But then, except at the very start it's hard to find more than a few unIDable items per day anyway.

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2005, 04:32:38 AM »
The uses of Identify that function on the original glasses do not work when I make it undroppable, therefore any Identify ability has to be added as a separate custom unit.
Have you tried flagging them as undroppable on her CRE rather than modifying the ITM itself?

Offline Andyr

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2005, 12:46:53 PM »
That's really weird that changing the item itself seems to break the ability... Hmm.

I'm not sure what to suggest, but if you could get it working I think undroppable glasses of identification with a personalised description would be cool. :)
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Offline SimDing0

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2005, 12:56:12 PM »
And yeh, for a personalized description, just change the string in the TLK.

Offline Loriel

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2005, 02:59:44 PM »
I vote for #4.  It makes for even better roleplayability.  If you went this route, you might even introduce a side quest where she loses them for a while.

Offline Bons

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2005, 07:09:23 PM »
Have you tried flagging them as undroppable on her CRE rather than modifying the ITM itself?
Nope, I will test that immediately.

I vote for #4. It makes for even better roleplayability. If you went this route, you might even introduce a side quest where she loses them for a while.
Initially, I thought about making losing/breaking her glasses a quest if I ever got around to SoA Finch.
Newt had always suspected that people who regularly used the word "community" were using it in a very specific sense that excluded him and everyone he knew.

             --Neil Gaiman, Terry Pratchett, "Good Omens"

Offline Bons

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2005, 07:49:11 PM »
OMG! OMG! OMG! It looks like flagging from the CRE file will work! I was able to identify something using them! There was something goofy I don't remember from the times I've purchased the glasses - Testbar had to rest before the glasses' charges became available. Maybe they've always been like that, and I just never had cause to see it. I'll play with this in-game some more, but this looks like it'll be the implementation of choice.

Thanks for the idea, Sim!  :D
Newt had always suspected that people who regularly used the word "community" were using it in a very specific sense that excluded him and everyone he knew.

             --Neil Gaiman, Terry Pratchett, "Good Omens"

Offline Andyr

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2005, 08:04:37 PM »
You have to set in the .CRE how many charges have been used up that day, too, so by tweaking you should have them all available without needing to rest. :)

I know as I had a similar headache with an item that didn't seem to be working too once... ;)
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Offline cliffette

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2005, 03:36:50 AM »

Initially, I thought about making losing/breaking her glasses a quest if I ever got around to SoA Finch.


What a great idea!

(The above comment might be construed as a hint.)

Offline Gastong

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2005, 04:52:28 PM »
Even if u make the item undroppable u can just kill her, take the item and revive her. correct me if im wrong

Offline Bons

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2005, 05:35:42 PM »
I'm not interested in that kind of extreme. What I wanted was an implementation where it wouldn't seem like a gaping hole in content if the the player could just sell off Finch's glasses at the first shop they came to, and I *didn't* make a big deal about her being blind without them.
Newt had always suspected that people who regularly used the word "community" were using it in a very specific sense that excluded him and everyone he knew.

             --Neil Gaiman, Terry Pratchett, "Good Omens"

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Change Finch's Identify Ability?
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2005, 10:48:30 AM »
You can't pick up undroppable objects from dead characters.

 

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