Pedophilia ("Ephebophilia" or "Hebephilia")

[Silk]

*looks mildly confused and stays right out of this one*

[Ghreyfain]

I tend to agree.  This thread is even worse when you're drunk.  Good god.

[NiGHTMARE]

Don't forget that a "paedophilic" romance mod could be made by someone from a country where the age of consent is lower (e.g. in Spain it's only 13), or non-existent.  In such a case, the mod maker is portraying events which are perfectly acceptable to his country's law and culture.

[Sorrow]

It's worth noticing that the mod maker should be portraying events, no matter how acceptable or unacceptable they are, not judge them or fulfill his/her deviant needs.

[Dark Raven]

Hi 

[Sorrow]

Huh?

[Veloxyll]

It's worth noticing that the mod maker should be portraying events, no matter how acceptable or unacceptable they are, not judge them or fulfill his/her deviant needs.

It's also worth noting that mod makers are CREATING the events they're portraying, and strangely, mods that contain creepy stuff are less enjoyable. And thus less likely to be played.
It's generally a lot easier to tone down/decreepify mod content than to force your audience to approve.

[glain]

But are those people who are creating those 'creepy' mods really doing it for an audience because there is a want for it or just to satisfy themselves and for 'shock' value?

[Sorrow]

It's generally a lot easier to tone down/decreepify mod content than to force your audience to approve.

I don't like toned down mods nor toned down games.
Modder should portray the Reality in all its glory.
It's his/her duty as a human being.
What insight into the nature of the Reality can all those weakened PG mods and games give us?


Behold!
The Reality is amoral!
The Reality is R-rated!
Behold, Understand and Create!
No mercy!
No limit!
No weakness!

[icelus]

Are those the lyrics to some brand new angsty teenage pop song?  Might be fun to hear spoken over a remix of the theme song to Sanford and Son.

[SimDing0™]

I don't like toned down mods nor toned down games.
Modder should portray the Reality in all its glory.

Yet I suspect, given her personality and background, that Saerileth intentionally focuses more on the fantasy than reality of a relationship with such a young character.

[Sorrow]

I don't know, I've never used Saerileth when playing BG, so I don't know what is this romance about.

Are those the lyrics to some brand new angsty teenage pop song?  Might be fun to hear spoken over a remix of the theme song to Sanford and Son.

Nope.
It's just my view on modding, writing and creating games.
All doubts should be left behind, there's no place for compromise.
The quality of games is suffering from the cowardice and greed of developers.
They should learn to observe the Reality and to recreate it in their games.
The Reality doesn't follow any moral code, there are only causes and consequences.
That's why I say that it is R-rated.
So any cRPG that isn't R-rated is vastly imperfect.

[Drew]

While I'm not going to come to the defense of sexual relationships between 20 year old adults and 15 year old children, I do feel it is important to point out that, technically speaking, such a relationship wouldn't be classified as pedophilia.  A more appropriate term would be "Ephebophilia" or "Hebephilia" which constitutes the state of being attracted to postpubescent adolescents.*   I'm not saying that the fact that this technically isn't pedophilia makes it OK (I don't think it does) but I think repeatedly bandying about the term "pedophilia" may derail any chance of meaningful discussion we might have about this.  I'd especially like to hear the authors of the mods in question weigh in on this one.

*To be fair, even these terms aren't exactly correct as they only apply in the case of being exclusively atrracted to postpubescent adolescents.  There really isn't a proper term for an isolated case of this sort other than the legal definition.

[Veloxyll]

It's generally a lot easier to tone down/decreepify mod content than to force your audience to approve.

I don't like toned down mods nor toned down games.
Modder should portray the Reality in all its glory.
It's his/her duty as a human being.
What insight into the nature of the Reality can all those weakened PG mods and games give us?


Behold!
The Reality is amoral!
The Reality is R-rated!
Behold, Understand and Create!
No mercy!
No limit!
No weakness!

When you're writing though, it's worth considering whenever you add some content that may be considered questionable, does it actually add something interesting, or are you just doing it to SHOCK people?
such as: Is there anything added to the mod by having the character 15 as opposed to 18. or 25.
Not having played Saerileth, I can't say which way it seems to lean.

As for mods reflecting reality...I play games to escape, not deal with the same stuff I deal with in Real Life.I want that, I can go outside!

[Ghreyfain]

You have giant man-eating herbivores wandering the streets of New Zealandland?  Sounds dangerous.

[MyFinalHeaven]

I hear that Nethin and Sillara light candles and perform demonic rituals at night. 



I've always seen Saerileth as a bit of an homage to old romances like Romeo and Juliet or Marius and Cosette. There's nothing particulary harmful in the mod. Sheesh...

[CORVIS TERRIBLE MOUNTAIN GOD]

I hear that Nethin and Sillara light candles and perform demonic rituals at night. 



I've always seen Saerileth as a bit of an homage to old romances like Romeo and Juliet or Marius and Cosette. There's nothing particulary harmful in the mod. Sheesh...

You're right, of course. Bad writing, while often painful and frustrating, very rarely causes any lasting injury.

[Silk]

All right, Ghrey, I'll play ... Who else is from New Zealand?

[Sorrow]

Is there anything added to the mod by having the character 15 as opposed to 18. or 25.

Yes.

As for mods reflecting reality...I play games to escape, not deal with the same stuff I deal with in Real Life.I want that, I can go outside!

It's not true.
You can go outside, but you'll have your body, your mind and your reactions.
The main problem of the Real Life is being oneself.
<CHARNAME> isn't the Player, so the Player is someone else.
"Experiencing" the Reality as another person is an ultimate way of escape.

[Miss Sakaki]

With regard to Saerileth, it doesn't seem that her age is the point of the mod. Her age is used as a way to emphasise her virtue and purity rather than to emphasise her attractiveness to an older Charname.

[Ghreyfain]

I think a virtuous 80-year-old is more virtuous than a saintly 5-year-old.  The fogey's had more time to sin.  The five-year-old is going to hell for picking his nose, anyways.

All right, Ghrey, I'll play ... Who else is from New Zealand?

Play what?  Vel's from NZ, and he was talking about escaping the things he deals with in Real Life.  Presumably those include extraplanar teenage paladins with tails.  But not orcs.  Everyone knows those only live in the northern hemisphere.

[jester]

15 years is not young considering the medieval setting FR is in. The fault lies more in everything else like class etc. but the romance and also what Drew said.

Imoen is NOT your sister as you don't share a human father or mother. Hence no incest.

BTW many gamers seem to be in their early twenties and late teens so they would rather relate to a character of comparable age. While that would put my protagonist in the mid-thirties, I can see that teenagers want teenagers to play with.

[Dark Raven]

Incest

[jester]

While I cannot come up with a good argument to counter your reasoning I am above the suggestion that you speak from any other standpoint than hearsay.

[NiGHTMARE]

Let's for one minute imagine that brain transplants were possible in real life.  If a man were to father a boy, have his brain transferred shortly afterwards, and then proceed to father a girl in his new body, would it really be okay for his two children to have an intimate relationship when they'd come of age? Or alternatively, what if a man fathered a boy, suffered some odd medical problem which completely altered his DNA (almost certainly medically impossible I know, but this is purely hypothetical)), then fathered a girl, would it be acceptable for his two children to become involved with one another?

Personally I'd say no to both - IMHO two people sharing similar DNA is far less important than their father being the same person.  Incidentally, the British government has recently introduced a law which makes it illegal for even step siblings to have sex (though I'm not sure what happens if a married couple's respective divorced/widowed parents were to meet, fall in love, and then get married themselves )...