Author Topic: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension  (Read 14805 times)

Offline Zyraen

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Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« on: July 21, 2005, 10:05:56 PM »
I've played through Ascension and found it terribly difficult (even on "Easy"), but I really like the enhancements to the ending of ToB, and it really improved it by a lot. However I also thought it felt horribly like a version of "Tactics" shoved down your throat at the end, and really this is so bad now that I've more or less stopped playing after killing the Ravager.

Basically now I cheat to see the ending, and even Ctrl-Ying through the last scenario is too much effort, as the Five *aren't* dying. Is it possible if we produce a version of Ascension that removes the "Tactics" elements in the battle at the end, ie makes it easy enough for us mortals to complete without cheating?

If that is all right with you, I don't mind starting work on that, a separate version maybe, which might considerably widen the player base for Ascension.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2005, 10:23:10 PM by Zyraen »
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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2005, 05:30:54 PM »
I totally agree with removing the tactics element. Being a pen and paper 2e add player, I'm rather appalled by the way bioware took baldur's gate 2, and especially throne of bhaal. The rules element of ascension is really gruesome; it has nothing to do with add, and more with diablo or something.
However, I still like the games a lot because of the atmosphere, the story and especially the npc-companions. Anyway, the final bosses of ascension are unbeatable to me, and i cheated through and feeling really good about it too.. These bosses are even more powerful than avatars of forgotten realms greater powers (just check demi-human deities and faiths and avatars)!

Offline Da_venom

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2005, 07:57:27 PM »
just practice every enemy has his weakness;)

Offline Idobek

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2005, 05:41:49 AM »
Lack of enjoyment is probably going to prevent a lot of people from practicing.
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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2005, 09:42:22 PM »
I personally think Zyraen's idea is really a good one. Personally, there are times when I just want to beat myself in the head as hard as possible with the extreme hardcore level of Ascension, but sometimes, I simply want to have a smooth game while enjoying the story.

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2005, 03:00:02 PM »
Agreed!

Just beat the game, hooray, for the first time with ascension. I was very impressed by the story elements. I got Balthazar to join me in the final fight, and I was really surprised to see Irenicus again. Masterfully done

But damn.... It was hard! I laughed at Irenicus when he said he was going to kill me, and then he mopped the floor with me over and over and over. In the end I managed to defeat him in a long and painful fight.

The demons at the pools were tough, but still doable. Well balanced

I messed up after that. Saved the game after I activated the pool. So no preparations for the final battle  :(

I tried and tried. I managed to take down all but Yaga-Shura once, but then Melissan owned me. I didn't feel like going trough all the battles again, so I..... used ctrl+y on the five and then fought against Melissan  :P

I love the game and I love the mod, but I've never been that good at fighting. The final fight is so much better than the original, but so hard. A toned down version would be awesome for newbies like me  ;D

Offline Bursk

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2005, 12:03:11 PM »
Do any modders have plans to take this on?

Offline Zyraen

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2005, 12:58:34 PM »
I intend to, actually. but if someone beats me to it, I'm not complaining.
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Offline Bursk

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2005, 12:28:46 PM »
I intend to, actually. but if someone beats me to it, I'm not complaining.

Okay.  Well, good luck with it.

Oooh, Turnabout has been released.  Do you think you'll be able to make your new Ascension compatible with it (if it isn't already)?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2005, 12:33:51 PM by Bursk »

Offline Vappour

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2005, 02:17:51 PM »
As for the "five" not dying, have you looked at the "read me" page that comes with the mod? This seems to be a common problem, and the author of Ascension (a Bioware programmer) explains how to fix it using the console (without "cheating").

Offline Zyraen

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2005, 08:14:56 PM »
Using the Console IS cheating :)
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Offline razor39999

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2005, 08:30:33 AM »
Hmmm, I wouldn't call myself a pro player, but after reading once through Weimer's readme of Ascension, I had all the info I needed for beating them. Improved Haste is ur friend, as is Prot from Magic Weapons, etc.! Don't forget about the awesome high level abilities... It's really not that tough. Stopping Sendai's Time Stop and getting rid of Abazigal fast are the only real tough spots in the fight. Other than that, it's pretty much clear sailing. But if u want to take the time and make an easier mod for the story-oriented ppl, why the heck not!
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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2005, 09:48:47 AM »
As for the "five" not dying, have you looked at the "read me" page that comes with the mod? This seems to be a common problem, and the author of Ascension (a Bioware programmer) explains how to fix it using the console (without "cheating").
A bug that can be fixed using the console is still a bug.

Offline Borsook

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2005, 10:08:41 AM »
That's a really good idea, though maybe not removing but making it an optional component? After all it's weidu!
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Offline Bookwyrme

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2005, 10:40:21 AM »
I'd be all for the change!

I'm not a very patient person when it comes to battles--after a certain amount of reloading I tend to either quit or cheat, neither of which is really satisfying.
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Offline Quitch

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2005, 02:04:49 PM »
Well, Ascension was tested by Power Gamers.  It was designed with them in mind (bearing in mind that the mod scene then was a fraction of the size it is now) and thus assumes you have every cheesy weapon, protection and spell available to you and know how to use them.

Why not just modify Ascension so that it recognises the difficulty mod I believe exists, then tone up or down depending on what that's set to?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2005, 02:07:16 PM by Quitch »
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Offline Idobek

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2005, 02:15:30 PM »
Well, gaining permission from the original authors would probably the first problem with alterations made to Ascension, however, you seem to have just solved that problem.
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Offline Kulyok

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2005, 02:34:43 PM »
I do not mind difficulty that much - yes, Ascension breaks game balance, but I've yet to see a mod that presents a tactical challenge and doesn't. It's either too easy or too difficult.

The one and only reason why I uninstalled Ascension is "Five-are-not-dying" thing. I keep hoping it gets fixed some day, though.

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2005, 03:55:57 PM »
I do not mind difficulty that much - yes, Ascension breaks game balance, but I've yet to see a mod that presents a tactical challenge and doesn't. It's either too easy or too difficult.
I'm not really sure what you're looking for here. Of course any mod which increases the difficulty of a specific part of the game is going to disrupt the overall balance, because the game is already balanced to a degree; it's no secret that installing Improved Ilyich makes the rest of the game look stupid. The only solution to not disrupting balance is to consistently raise the difficulty of the entire game, in which case DEF JAM is pretty much all you're looking at.

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2005, 03:58:31 PM »
(The above is, of course, why DEF JAM is much better than all that high-powered battle rubbish!)

Offline Kulyok

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2005, 01:21:42 AM »
I'm just looking for Ascension without bugs, really... When Edwin Romance breaks game balance, it is annoying, since I have not bargained for it, but when Ascension or Tactics do, I am not complaining: these are tactical challenges, after all.

But yeah, DEF JAM is a thing. Now when I am writing a dialogue which should trigger when PC reaches a high level, I have to scratch my head and ask myself: "What is a high level? 18? 20? What if he has an Experience Fixer installed?" Eventually, I stopped at level 15. The mod messed the picture of things entirely. In a good way, but still...

Offline Bursk

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2006, 11:12:44 AM »
Zyraen has informed me that RL has got in the way of any progress regarding his attempt to do this.  So if any other modders want to have a crack, it appears that your work won't be redundant.

Offline tylor

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2007, 11:59:40 PM »
Zyraen has informed me that RL has got in the way of any progress regarding his attempt to do this.  So if any other modders want to have a crack, it appears that your work won't be redundant.
Is it still actual? I think, it cant' be too difficult, just nerfing/excludingof final Irenicus and Five could do the trick...

Offline Zyraen

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2007, 11:52:39 AM »
Actual? what do you mean?
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Offline berelinde

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Re: Removing the "Tactics" element from Ascension
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2007, 12:00:54 PM »
Looks like he meant to ask if it was dead yet.

 

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