New Areas

[DrattedTin]

Specifically...

is there a relatively easy way to copy an area that already exists, but tear out the NPCs and scripts and containers and whatnot, but leaving all the stuff like searchmaps, so it's pretty much a functional area just waiting to be used?

Is there a HARD way?

Maybe a tutorial out there for this stuff? Basically, I'm thinking it would be a lot easier to copy and edit than make a new one, so I'm not so interested in Making Completely New Areas Tutorials (though I'd appreciate links for that as a tertiary thing).

[The_Swordalizer]

As far as I am aware, if you copy the XXX.ARE file, and the XXX.WED file into your override folder and rename them both to "ARTEST" or something you should be able to open the .ARE file in DLTCEP and alter the wed file it uses to be "ARTEST". Then you can simply delete all the bits of the WED file (characters, containers etc.) you don't want in DLTCEP, and leave the search maps, wallgroups and things you do want. I'm pretty sure that should work.

[DrattedTin]

Thanks. I'll try that out, sounds like it should work.

Second question, a little (hah!) harder.

There's some really nice looking areas in BG1... can they be converted cleanly to BGII? Well, I guess the answer is YES given Tutu, but is it something that can be done without a lot of hackery?

Come to think of it... could I just use Tutu todo it?

[DrattedTin]

As far as I am aware, if you copy the XXX.ARE file, and the XXX.WED file into your override folder and rename them both to "ARTEST" or something you should be able to open the .ARE file in DLTCEP and alter the wed file it uses to be "ARTEST". Then you can simply delete all the bits of the WED file (characters, containers etc.) you don't want in DLTCEP, and leave the search maps, wallgroups and things you do want. I'm pretty sure that should work.

Okay, I did this, saved it, and...

As soon as I try to go there using the console ingame, the game starts to load the map before crashing (in the typical manner of a "corrupt" file). It loads fine in DLTCEP, the only thing I did was remove a few exits/entrances... any ideas?

[Bons]

If the area has any ambients, I think a copy of the referenced ambient file has to be in your override, or crashy-crashy.

[DrattedTin]

If the area has any ambients, I think a copy of the referenced ambient file has to be in your override, or crashy-crashy.

Well, here's the odd part. When I just put it in my override dir and rename it, it opens fine ingame. But as soon as I start taking out/editing stuff like actors and doors and whatnot--*without touching ambients*--it starts crashing ingame.

[Bons]

Time for specifics. What area are you using, and what are the names of the bits you are removing?

If you really want to enter the dance with the Bitch Goddess of New Areas, you might want to take out one item, save and attempt a game load, then repeat, to pinpoint where she's tripping you up.

[Cuv]

If the area has any ambients, I think a copy of the referenced ambient file has to be in your override, or crashy-crashy.

Well, here's the odd part. When I just put it in my override dir and rename it, it opens fine ingame. But as soon as I start taking out/editing stuff like actors and doors and whatnot--*without touching ambients*--it starts crashing ingame.

If you are messing with existing door polygons... then you are entering a whole new world of hurt.   Do as Bons suggests,  try removing one type thing at a time and see what is causing your crash.   Ambients 'might' be the problem, but my guess is that it is the doors.   Whenever you remove a door,  most of that information is contained in the .WED file... and that causes all the hexs above it to shift really screwing things up.  Ambients, Entrances, Exits and triggers are contained in the .ARE and simply point to locations in the .WED.   So basically,  if your .WED is screwed.... so are you.

What is the area number you are trying to work with?   I will take a look and give further advice once I see it.

Cuv

[DrattedTin]

Come to think of it, you might be right. Are travel regions analogous to doors?

Yeah, that'd make a lot of sense.

So... how *do* you remove doors you don't want, then?

Anyway, it's AR0906.

[Bons]

Hmm. That area doesn't have doors. In terms of what Cuv was talking about, if you have to edit the wallgroups in an area, you can't reuse an existing WED. You'd have to resave a new WED for your area.

What you're probably removing is exit/entrances and travel regions. I'll do an experiment editing those out of the AR0906 along with the actors. I typically experience problems with triggers and exits when I've forgotten to add something they reference, but that shouldn't apply to this situation.

[DrattedTin]

Hmm. That area doesn't have doors. In terms of what Cuv was talking about, if you have to edit the wallgroups in an area, you can't reuse an existing WED. You'd have to resave a new one for your area.

What you're probably removing is exit/entrances and travel regions. I'll do an experiment editing those out of the AR0906 along with the actors. I typically experience problems with triggers and exits when I've forgotten to add something they reference, but that shouldn't apply to this situation.

That's correct. On my latest crash-run, all I edited/took out were Actors and Travel Regions. I really suspect the issue is with the latter.

[Bons]

Okay, I opened AR0906 in IETME, right clicked on the actors, entrances and travel regions, then deleted them, saved the area as ARTEST, then opened the area file in NI and edited the ARE so its WED pointed to AR0906. This test area loaded with no problems. I repeated the process with DLTCEP, removing the same features and just resaving the ARE under a new name. This also loaded with no problems.

I didn't look at the entrances in detail, but if any of the entrances you didn't delete reference a travel region you did delete, that would cause a problem.

It's doable, so try again with the change-one-thing, save, and see-if-it-loads method.

[DrattedTin]

I'll give it a go.

Speaking of which, does anyone have a working link to IETME?

[Bons]

Hmm. Clan DLAN isn't working. I've emailed you a copy of the IETME download.

[DrattedTin]

Hmm. Clan DLAN isn't working. I've emailed you a copy of the IETME download.

Groovy. One last question...

"then deleted them, saved the area as ARTEST, then opened the area file in NI and edited the ARE so its WED pointed to AR0906."

Why is this neccessary? Doesn't it already point to AR0906.WED since the original .ARE was already set to point there?

[Bons]

Yeah, actually that wasn't necessary. I thought I remembered IETME having a problem when I tried to save with different WED/ARE names, so I did those extra steps. Doing a rerun in IETME, it doesn't seem to make a difference.

[DrattedTin]

Zing!

And I'm back with new, annoyingly simple questions.

This one's related to Weidu: when placing infotriggers on the area, it's easy enough to just refer to a string that's already in the .TLK file, but how do you go about doing this via weidu? i.e, in the same manner you do for items and creatures.



 

[Bons]

If the info trigger is aleady in the area, and you just need to update the text displayed, you should be able to look up the offset of that particular trigger in NI. After that, it should be a matter of...

COPY  ~Mod/ARNEW1.are~ ~override/ARNEW1.are~
WRITE_ASCII (Offset + 64) ~New Info Text~ Wrong, see later posts...

The offset would be the point in the area file where the details about that trigger begin. Per IESDP, 64 bytes into the details of that info trigger is the dialog reference.

The WeiDU patch masters should leap in at this point and correct me. 

[DrattedTin]

For some reason, DLTCEP has real issues with me. I've shied away from using it as it seems to corrupt things really easily for me...

IETME works like a charm for me, however.

I've run into a little problem now, though.

I'm trying to rename an area completely, and I can find the offset in the .ARE to redirect to a renamed .WED, but I can't find an offset in either the .ARE or the .WED that directs it to the .TIS, and so it's still looking for the .TIS under the old name.

Any clues?

[Bons]

Did you change the the area graphics in any way, editing bits in or out? If you didn't, you should leave the reference to the original AR0906 TIS.

The reference to the TIS is in the WED. The main TIS of the area is the first overlay listed in NI. To change, you'd choose that overlay, select "View/Edit", then update the value of the TIS in the window that pops up. BUT, if you're changing the tileset, you don't want to use AR0906 as the name of your WED, because that will screw up the appearance of the actual AR0906. (Though it sounds like you're already changing this.) You might as well rename the whole kit and caboodle when you're first making/editing and saving your new area in IETME or DLTCEP in that case.

[DrattedTin]

Did you change the the area graphics in any way, editing bits in or out? If you didn't, you should leave the reference to the original AR0906 TIS.

The reference to the TIS is in the WED. The main TIS of the area is the first overlay listed in NI. To change, you'd choose that overlay, select "View/Edit", then update the value of the TIS in the window that pops up. BUT, if you're changing the tileset, you don't want to use AR0906 as the name of your WED, because that will screw up the appearance of the actual AR0906. (Though it sounds like you're already changing this.) You might as well rename the whole kit and caboodle when you're first making/editing and saving your new area in IETME or DLTCEP in that case.

Thanks! Works like a charm.

[Idobek]

If the info trigger is aleady in the area, and you just need to update the text displayed, you should be able to look up the offset of that particular trigger in NI. After that, it should be a matter of...

COPY ~Mod/ARNEW1.are~ ~override/ARNEW1.are~
WRITE_ASCII (Offset + 64) ~New Info Text~

If this is a string ref you should be using SAY, not WRITE_ASCII.

[DrattedTin]

I feel like an asshole for this endless streams of questions... but, uh, it'll help the countless lurkers, right? Right.



Okay, I've ported a BGI area over to BGII. It loads fine, works fine, except for one very noticable graphic glitch. In the area in question, everything gets blurred together into a twitching mess--usually just the tiles, but if you mouse over, it gets glitchy cursor trash too. It's a fireplace, and I suspected it has some old BG1 overlay (fire version of water) but I don't see any option to remove this in IETME?

[Bons]

If the info trigger is aleady in the area, and you just need to update the text displayed, you should be able to look up the offset of that particular trigger in NI. After that, it should be a matter of...

COPY ~Mod/ARNEW1.are~ ~override/ARNEW1.are~
WRITE_ASCII (Offset + 64) ~New Info Text~

If this is a string ref you should be using SAY, not WRITE_ASCII.

I got it wrong in several ways. Go me! The tp2 entry should be:

SAY (Offset + 0x0064) ~BlahBlahBlah~
or
SAY (Offset + 100) ~BlahBlahBlah~

A downside to IETME is sometiomes you can save screwy tileset, so if the blocks are funky or discolored, tht might be what happened. Changing your system's Display from 32-bit color to 24-bit or 16-bit color helps reduce the occurrence of this.

From messing with BG1 areas recently, few if any fireplaces had overlays or animations like BG2 does. Usually there was just an ambient playing the crackling of a fire, so your mouse over problem is very funky. I don't think I've ever encountered twitching.

[DrattedTin]

A downside to IETME is sometiomes you can save screwy tileset, so if the blocks are funky or discolored, tht might be what happened. Changing your system's Display from 32-bit color to 24-bit or 16-bit color helps reduce the occurrence of this.

From messing with BG1 areas recently, few if any fireplaces had overlays or animations like BG2 does. Usually there was just an ambient playing the crackling of a fire, so your mouse over problem is very funky. I don't think I've ever encountered twitching.

So if this is the problem, replacing the .TIS with the original BG1 .TIS should clear it up?