Realistic Monks

[Wounded_Lion]

I know very little concerning the P&P versions of the Monk class.  I assume that the class is loosely based on the Shaolin monks of China...  It strikes me as very odd that the Monk is limited to 1-handed weapons.  Staff and spear forms are fundamental to Shaolin Wushu (Kung Fu), and both double dagger and dual broadsword forms are taught at more advanced levels.  This is not heresay or something that I read in a book:  I train the traditional form of this style.  So...  what's with "keeping the off-hand free"?  Can this be disabled, or is it "hard-coded"?  I have tried changing the MFISTX items to 1-handed items and rendering the staff and spear usable to Monks, but still receive the message that Monks cannot use the off-hand in combat when I try to equip a second weapon or two-handed weapon.  Any thoughts or info on this?

a Wounded Lion

[Echon]

The 2E monks were introduced in Player's Option: Spells & Magic as a new class for the Priest group (that already has clerics and druids). Features include AC improvements as levels increase, the ability to cast spells from a number of spheres and permanent Free Action at 7th level. Monks can use all blunt weapons but I cannot remember if they specialise or not. They automatically improve their martial arts as they level up, eventually gaining Grand Mastery.

-Echon

[NiGHTMARE]

I don't think the D&D design team had only Shaolin monks in mind when creating the class - there are certain elements of the Catholic monk in there as well.  The 3E monk does seem to have less western influences than the 2E version, though.

[Wounded_Lion]

Hmm...  last time I checked, Catholic priests were not reknowned for their martial abilities...  hehe.  And the sterotypical weapon of the "friars" is the staff...  which Monks cannot use...  but then again the D&D world can be an odd place...   

a Wounded Lion

[Wounded_Lion]

Thanks for the info, Echon.  I am considering creating a Monk-like class as either a Cleric or Fighter kit.  The kit would more accurately represent both the actual and mythical powers of the Shaolin monks.  The idea is in the design phase at present (nothing has been coded yet).  Any thoughts on such a kit (from anybody)?

a Wounded Lion

[jester]

I think the Bo is the quintessential weapon for a wandering monk apart from his own fists, but apparently they needed the animation slots. Someone once made better animations, but i cannot remember where they were from.

[NiGHTMARE]

Hmm...  last time I checked, Catholic priests were not reknowned for their martial abilities...  hehe.  And the sterotypical weapon of the "friars" is the staff...  which Monks cannot use...  but then again the D&D world can be an odd place...   

Well, obviously that's the main thing taken from Shaolin monks .  The "Catholic aspect" is more the way they are devoted purely to their god and his/her commandments, rather than in pursuit of inner peace and understanding as are Shaolin monks.  The most obvious consequence of this is that D&D monks generally pray, rather than chant or meditate.

BTW becoming a Catholic monk doesn't automatically make you a member of the clergy; in fact, relatively few of them are allowed to be ordained as priests .  Catholic monks and friars weren't quite the same thing either; whereas monks usually shut themselves away from the rest of the society (either by themselves or in a monastic order) and devoted themselves purely to God and the pursuit of His teachings, a friar lived amongst a normal community and was dedicated to helping the ordinary people in matters both spiritual and otherwise (and he had both fewer and less strict vows as a consequence).

[Wounded_Lion]

That is interesting, Nightmare.  I am not very familiar with the particulars of the Catholic hierarchy.  I think it would have been wiser of the D&D design team to craft two types of monks: "Eastern" and "Western".  Utter devotion to a god and his/her commandments doesn't suit the eastern monk at all.  The two are very different, and I find it odd that they are combined into a single class.

a W.L.

[NiGHTMARE]

True, but then having a choice in which god to serve (with a list that includes evil gods like Bane and Shar) isn't exactly fitting for either type of real world monk...

The "dedicated to your god" part is one of the things which was altered for 3rd Edition.  Now a D&D monk "cares primarily for the perfection of her art and, thereby, her personal perfection.  Her goal is to achieve a state that is beyond the mortal realm." whereas before monks were "priests who belong to cloistered or monastic orders, withdrawing from the everyday affairs of the world around them to contemplate their faith".

[Wounded_Lion]

True, but then having a choice in which god to serve (with a list that includes evil gods like Bane and Shar) isn't exactly fitting for either type of real world monk...

I have to disagree with this viewpoint being applied to the eastern-style monk.  One did not have to be a monk at all to be trained in the Shaolin martial arts, and even among the spiritual the "darker" aspects of Taoism enjoyed some popularity during certain periods.  If the eastern monk is allowed a choice of which god to venerate, then a broad spectrum should be available.

Though as an afterthought I might add that Shaolin Chan Buddhism was a curious blend of Buddhist and Taoist ideas that did not, for the most part, espouse the worship of *any* gods.

The "dedicated to your god" part is one of the things which was altered for 3rd Edition.  Now a D&D monk "cares primarily for the perfection of her art and, thereby, her personal perfection.  Her goal is to achieve a state that is beyond the mortal realm.

Now that's more like it!  This is how I think of *most* (but not all) eastern-style monks.

a W.L.

[NiGHTMARE]

I have to disagree with this viewpoint being applied to the eastern-style monk.  One did not have to be a monk at all to be trained in the Shaolin martial arts, and even among the spiritual the "darker" aspects of Taoism enjoyed some popularity during certain periods.  If the eastern monk is allowed a choice of which god to venerate, then a broad spectrum should be available

You're forgetting that D&D gods are far more than just different aspects of the same religion - each one is more like a seperate religion unto themselves (a few gods even tell their worshippers all other gods are lesser divine beings, or aren't gods at all). 

Perhaps I should have phrased it as a "choice of which religion to belong to" or similar, since there is probably far more difference between the worship of e.g. Ilmater and Bane than there is between any two real world religions.  Presumably Christians cannot become Shaolin monks, right?

[Wounded_Lion]

Presumably Christians cannot become Shaolin monks, right?

Tricky subject.     Anyone can train Shaolin martial arts and develop their qi (or ki, if you prefer).  Being a Shaolin martial artist and a Shaolin monk are distinct from each other (though they often go hand-in-hand).

The kit that I have in mind is more of a Shaolin martial artist, I think:  qi and wisdom are developed but not necessarily within the context of any particular religious system.  Thanks partially to these exchanges, I'm developing a basic outline of what I want the class to be...  I'll post some details once I flesh the concept out a bit.

If anyone is interested in this or any other project, I'm sort of intrigued by collaborative modding.  Feel free to e-mail me any ideas for cooperation on any mods you think I might be into (monk/druid/npc/evil/any-or-all-of-the-above).

a W.L.