Bug Reports v1.02

[Meddle.]

Echon
The readme says it's 1.02. Oh well, it must be tails from numerous (re)installations of different mods, and there were a lot of them. Too bad i have no pre-mod backup. Hope reinstall will help.

[Echon]

Just to make sure this bug still does not exist in 1.02, I checked the TP2. There is only one Medium Shield +1 file and its name and description are correct.

-Echon

[Shadowblade]

I don't know if this has been reported, but after tackling the Hobgoblins around the Friendly Arm, one of them had wandered inside. So we killed him and the fog of war came back, except for the bit we'd cleared just by entering the coutyard and being jumped by the assassin the day before.

So we gave Joia her flamedance ring back and went around the Arm again and killed the re-spawned Hobgoblins and we found her ring AGAIN. So, we went back into her hut and the fog of war came back AGAIN and, you've guessed it, the HGs and the damn ring were back too.

Not a good start for this mod.

The Ring of Wizardry was gone, as well. And the +1 ring. And the +1 dagger is now a "quality" dagger. Too many changes.

All I really wanted was the corrections to the Priest spheres and Wizard schools and a few other rules fixes.



~

[Echon]

I don't know if this has been reported, but after tackling the Hobgoblins around the Friendly Arm, one of them had wandered inside. So we killed him and the fog of war came back, except for the bit we'd cleared just by entering the coutyard and being jumped by the assassin the day before.

So we gave Joia her flamedance ring back and went around the Arm again and killed the re-spawned Hobgoblins and we found her ring AGAIN. So, we went back into her hut and the fog of war came back AGAIN and, you've guessed it, the HGs and the damn ring were back too.

Not a good start for this mod.

I have not heard of something like this happening before, and I do not how it is happening because as far as I know, this should not be possible. Are you using Tutu?

The Ring of Wizardry was gone, as well. And the +1 ring. And the +1 dagger is now a "quality" dagger. Too many changes.

What? Is the game too difficult for you when your 1st-level characters are not loaded with magical items? You should probably get used to earning them rather than finding them scattered randomly across the landscape.

All I really wanted was the corrections to the Priest spheres and Wizard schools and a few other rules fixes.

Spending a minimum amount of time reading about this mod should reveal that there is more to it.

-Echon

[Shadowblade]

"What? Is the game too difficult for you when your 1st-level characters are not loaded with magical items? You should probably get used to earning them rather than finding them scattered randomly across the landscape."

Actually, it seems a lot easier now than before the mod, especially with the lack of dagger-throwing skeletons and so on and spiders that don't travel in pairs.

I have a:

Human Druid
Human Cleric
Gnome Illusionist/Assassin
Human Necromancer
Elven  Diviner
Half-Elf Transmuter

so I'm not really heavy on artillery or tanks and the Ring of Wizardry was one way of keepng a few backup spells. I'm enforcing the rule that one memorised spell per level has to be of the chosen specialist school, so the Diviner always has Identify and the ring allows her to have three Magick Missiles instread of one, 1d4+1 damage each, which is hardly overpowering. And she can't cast Armour. The poor Transmuter has to memorise Vocalise, which she never uses! So the Ring of Wizardry hardly constitutes being "loaded" with magick items.

Rather than simply removing the hidden items, placing them on an NPC would have been nice. Like the various assassins or some new NPCs. I was dismayed to not find the Ring of Holiness as well. There's not much point having these rings at 9th level when they are barely useful and don't make the difference between live and die. Some of the assassins are a little tougher with the scripts, actually, especially the one that stays back in the Nashkel inn and zaps a spell rather than coming into melee range first, but Mulahey and his cohorts were pussycats.


The problem with the game resetting may have been caused by my using Gatekeeper to change a character with my previous party. The whole of Beregost had reset by the time we returned. Spell levels changed in the spell books as well (Blindness dropped to 1st, Gaze Reflection rose to 2nd). Perhaps your mod should come with a "Gatekeeper Unfriendly" warning? I uninstalled everything, reinstalled the lot and rolled a new party (as above) and it hasn't happened again. Will using the CLUAConsole have a similar effect?

One thing I notice is that a lot of items you've removed from drawers and chests are replaced with invisible items. There are spaces between certain objects and the spaces make a clunk when placed in inventory and a right click has the familiar

"Who dares?!? I don't have time for thee <Protaganist_Name>....!"

This is on a full, clean install.

Also, Bjornin's medium shield +1 has the description for the Tome of Strength and Bassilus' Bracers of Fumbling have the description for the new Gauntlets of Dexterity you created but are still the same old cursed fumbling item.

One of my party got petrified by an unexpected Basilisk (which shouldn't happen if running away and so not meeting it's gaze) but we couldn't get into the temple of Lathander to buy any scrolls as we couldn't "enter the store at this time", presumably because the party was scattered! There are some others as well but I don't have my notes with me. I'm off-line at home and have very little time to come to this site, unfortunately.

Is there anywhere to discuss development of the mod? For example, you said elsewhere that it's not possible for Druids to get the +2 save vs Fire and Lightning (presumably as the saving throws aren't hard-coded in that way, just RSW, PPD, spell, breath etc), but as a +2 on 1d20 is a +10% chance to avoid the effect, what about a 10% MR to Fire and Electrical attacks for any effect that actually hits? Not as good as the real thing, but the engine requires some compromises. I don't agree that Druids shouldn't wear helmets as who says which ones are metal and which ones are leather and wood, but as you've banned helmets, an invisible equippable item could grant this effect. Easy enough with cre files, but I'm not sure if it could be done with chr files as part of the class design. just a thought.

As for the Law and Chaos sphere and the reversed forms of spells, the rules are that Evil Priesthoods have access only to the reversed forms while Neutrals have access to either. Clerics have access to either Law or Chaos, depending on whether they are Lawful or Chaotic while Druids, like all Neutral priests, should get a choice of which to go for and stick with. As there are so few Chaos spells and as Law is so much more useful in BG, the choice is obvious. Also, Druids should have access to Time and Travellers and many Wards spells, EG Zone of Sweet Air, which is also an elemental Air spell (depending on which book you are using at the time), Dragonbane (which could also be in Animal) etc. But, of course, there are no Time or Travellers spells in BG-I. So enforcing the sphere rules, with which I completely agree, is fine and dandy as long as the total spell selection available is fair and balanced, which it is not. There are plenty of Law spells but no Time spells. There are a few Wards spells but only the Cleric gets them. And Chaotic Clerics get access to Law, which isn't right and Good Clerics get access to Bestow Curse and other reversed forms, which they shouldn't. If you won't give Druids access to Wards and a choice of Chaos or Law, and can't create spells from their other spheres, then all of those spells should be removed, if you want a balanced game.

Oh, as Chant is an ALL spell, Druids should have it as well.

Chant doesn't seem to work, even with party AI turned on.

That instant poison hit is a bit rough, but true to the rules for spiders as Type F is save for no damage or die, anyway. But if you are using different venoms for the spiders (as BioWare seem to be doing) you have to have either an onset time or a damage per round compromise. As you can't work in the onset time, gradual damage seems the best compromise as you can try and heal the victim before they die. No point in Neutralise Poison, Slow Poison or antidote potions otherwise and many venoms work like that. They are not all like cyanide.

Found a Basilisk in an unexpected place! Did you give it the Type K poison for their breath, bite and claws (or does one of those attacks have Type O? Or is it Type N)?

Where is your new area? I've not come across it yet.


Anyway, I'm enjoying it so far.


Cheers!

~

[Echon]

Actually, it seems a lot easier now than before the mod, especially with the lack of dagger-throwing skeletons and so on and spiders that don't travel in pairs.

If spiders travelled in pairs previously, it was purely accidental. Nothing told them to do so.

so I'm not really heavy on artillery or tanks and the Ring of Wizardry was one way of keepng a few backup spells. I'm enforcing the rule that one memorised spell per level has to be of the chosen specialist school, so the Diviner always has Identify and the ring allows her to have three Magick Missiles instread of one, 1d4+1 damage each, which is hardly overpowering. And she can't cast Armour. The poor Transmuter has to memorise Vocalise, which she never uses! So the Ring of Wizardry hardly constitutes being "loaded" with magick items.

There was also a ring of protection +1, a wand of frost, an ankheg plate mail and some other items I cannot remember right now. If you decide to enforce that specialty mage rule you should also accept the consequences, i.e. the game becomes more challenging, especielly in your case.

Rather than simply removing the hidden items, placing them on an NPC would have been nice. Like the various assassins or some new NPCs. I was dismayed to not find the Ring of Holiness as well. There's not much point having these rings at 9th level when they are barely useful and don't make the difference between live and die. Some of the assassins are a little tougher with the scripts, actually, especially the one that stays back in the Nashkel inn and zaps a spell rather than coming into melee range first, but Mulahey and his cohorts were pussycats.

You are assuming now that I have removed all these items. As you progress through the game, you will find many of them in different locations. This is done both to discourage metagaming and to make the rewards match the challenges. The best long sword in the game was too easy to get, even for a 1st- or 2nd-level party. Not so now. In addition, I would like to point out that there are still some magical items to be found here and there, you will simply need to look in different places and spend more time searching for them.

The problem with the game resetting may have been caused by my using Gatekeeper to change a character with my previous party. The whole of Beregost had reset by the time we returned. Spell levels changed in the spell books as well (Blindness dropped to 1st, Gaze Reflection rose to 2nd). Perhaps your mod should come with a "Gatekeeper Unfriendly" warning? I uninstalled everything, reinstalled the lot and rolled a new party (as above) and it hasn't happened again. Will using the CLUAConsole have a similar effect?

I have not heard of anybody using GateKeeper on a FotD install and I have not used it since I began learning modding. I seem to recall that using GateKeeper or ShadowKeeper on mod installs is a bad idea in general, though.

One thing I notice is that a lot of items you've removed from drawers and chests are replaced with invisible items. There are spaces between certain objects and the spaces make a clunk when placed in inventory and a right click has the familiar

They have not been replaced with these blank items, it is instead a result of my using random treasure in containers. If it hits a blank spot in the tables, it generates this empty item which unfortunately only disappears if left on the ground. Do not pick them up. I have not decided what to do with them yet.

Also, Bjornin's medium shield +1 has the description for the Tome of Strength and Bassilus' Bracers of Fumbling have the description for the new Gauntlets of Dexterity you created but are still the same old cursed fumbling item.

The medium shield description is a bug. As for the Gauntlets of Dexterity not being what they appear to be, have a look at the description of identify.

One of my party got petrified by an unexpected Basilisk (which shouldn't happen if running away and so not meeting it's gaze) but we couldn't get into the temple of Lathander to buy any scrolls as we couldn't "enter the store at this time", presumably because the party was scattered! There are some others as well but I don't have my notes with me. I'm off-line at home and have very little time to come to this site, unfortunately.

I cannot prevent it from pretifying a character once it has attacked as the gaze is implemented as a ranged weapon.

Is there anywhere to discuss development of the mod? For example, you said elsewhere that it's not possible for Druids to get the +2 save vs Fire and Lightning (presumably as the saving throws aren't hard-coded in that way, just RSW, PPD, spell, breath etc), but as a +2 on 1d20 is a +10% chance to avoid the effect, what about a 10% MR to Fire and Electrical attacks for any effect that actually hits? Not as good as the real thing, but the engine requires some compromises. I don't agree that Druids shouldn't wear helmets as who says which ones are metal and which ones are leather and wood, but as you've banned helmets, an invisible equippable item could grant this effect. Easy enough with cre files, but I'm not sure if it could be done with chr files as part of the class design. just a thought.

Use this forum, and feel free to start a new thread if there is anything specific you wish to discuss. As for druids wearing helmets, all the current ones look like they are made from metal and therefore they cannot use those.

As for the Law and Chaos sphere and the reversed forms of spells, the rules are that Evil Priesthoods have access only to the reversed forms while Neutrals have access to either. Clerics have access to either Law or Chaos, depending on whether they are Lawful or Chaotic while Druids, like all Neutral priests, should get a choice of which to go for and stick with. As there are so few Chaos spells and as Law is so much more useful in BG, the choice is obvious. Also, Druids should have access to Time and Travellers and many Wards spells, EG Zone of Sweet Air, which is also an elemental Air spell (depending on which book you are using at the time), Dragonbane (which could also be in Animal) etc. But, of course, there are no Time or Travellers spells in BG-I. So enforcing the sphere rules, with which I completely agree, is fine and dandy as long as the total spell selection available is fair and balanced, which it is not. There are plenty of Law spells but no Time spells. There are a few Wards spells but only the Cleric gets them. And Chaotic Clerics get access to Law, which isn't right and Good Clerics get access to Bestow Curse and other reversed forms, which they shouldn't. If you won't give Druids access to Wards and a choice of Chaos or Law, and can't create spells from their other spheres, then all of those spells should be removed, if you want a balanced game.

I use PO:S&M when dealing with priests and the spheres they access, and it does not state any of the things you mention with regard to alignment. Could you detail exactly which spells you believe to be unbalancing currently?

Oh, as Chant is an ALL spell, Druids should have it as well.

True. I think it got changed back to being cleric-only somehow. It will be corrected, as per its current description.

Chant doesn't seem to work, even with party AI turned on.

That is unfortunate. Do you make sure that you not disturb the caster in any way after the spell has been cast? Note that it will *only* work if the party AI is activated.

That instant poison hit is a bit rough, but true to the rules for spiders as Type F is save for no damage or die, anyway. But if you are using different venoms for the spiders (as BioWare seem to be doing) you have to have either an onset time or a damage per round compromise. As you can't work in the onset time, gradual damage seems the best compromise as you can try and heal the victim before they die. No point in Neutralise Poison, Slow Poison or antidote potions otherwise and many venoms work like that. They are not all like cyanide.

It sounds as if you have not had a look at how those spells and the antidote function now. They have been altered to take into account how poison has changed.

Found a Basilisk in an unexpected place! Did you give it the Type K poison for their breath, bite and claws (or does one of those attacks have Type O? Or is it Type N)?

Greater basilisks have been given the types of poison they should have.

Where is your new area? I've not come across it yet.

In the upper right hand corner of the map. Travel east from Ulgoth's Beard.

Anyway, I'm enjoying it so far.

I am glad to hear that.

-Echon

[Shadowblade]

After playing last night for an hour or so, it's getting more difficult. It seems a little easier for 1st/2nd level but it's getting tougher for 3rd and 4th.

Is this a bug? My Druid will only take a few steps and then stops, like he's bumped into something? This is on the Dryad Tree map en route to the Gnoll Fortress. Another party member got stuck as if in quicksand but finally moved when the rest of the party returned for him. This is going to be a pain unless I return to an earlier save, which is two whole maps back (damn that Quicksave!)


"There was also a ring of protection +1, a wand of frost, an ankheg plate mail"

I know! What a shocker to find an empty container! 

The Druid was really looiking forward to that chitinous hide.


"If you decide to enforce that specialty mage rule you should also accept the consequences, i.e. the game becomes more challenging, especielly in your case."

Well, what else can I do? Finally, I can play a party of specialists without getting a headache remembering the proper spell selections, so of course I have to roll one up. Well, I wanted a Bard, an Illusionist/Thief (have to have a Thief) and four Mage Specialists, but I HAD to try a Druid and a Cleric to see the Spheres working properly as well, so there you go...


"You are assuming now that I have removed all these items. As you progress through the game, you will find many of them in different locations."

I suspected as much.


"As for the Gauntlets of Dexterity not being what they appear to be, have a look at the description of identify."

Ditto. You fiendish swine! 


"I cannot prevent it from pretifying a character once it has attacked as the gaze is implemented as a ranged weapon."

I realise that but I meant the way we couldn't enter a store to buy a scroll when one of the party got petrified, as if the party was scattered - is that a bug? When a party member is petrified, shouldn't it be removed from the party? Something odd happened in a Vanilla game a few years back when Montaron got petrified as well, he didn't recognise us when we re-fleshed him and was a different level - something to do with the NPC chr files available.


"Could you detail exactly which spells you believe to be unbalancing currently?"

The party is only 3rd/4th level at the moment, so I'll have to wait and see how many other spells there are and which new ones you've put in, but, generally, if one class has a massive overbalance of spell versatility, it can't be a good thing.

The Good/Evil = Forward/Reversed spell thing is an ancient rule, and I'm sure S&M mentions the Law/Chaos access.


"In the upper right hand corner of the map. Travel east from Ulgoth's Beard."

Gor Blimey! I'm far too scared to try and get past the Ankheg fields yet! Maybe 6th level.


Cheers!


~

[Shadowblade]

It does 1D8 points of damage used single-handedly, 2D8 when both hands are used.

Actually, that's 2d4, not 2d8 (bastard sword).


~

[Borsook]

It does 1D8 points of damage used single-handedly, 2D8 when both hands are used.

Actually, that's 2d4, not 2d8 (bastard sword).


~

Not in this mod, it doesn't.

[Echon]

Is this a bug? My Druid will only take a few steps and then stops, like he's bumped into something? This is on the Dryad Tree map en route to the Gnoll Fortress. Another party member got stuck as if in quicksand but finally moved when the rest of the party returned for him. This is going to be a pain unless I return to an earlier save, which is two whole maps back (damn that Quicksave!)

It is a bug. It has only been reported once or twice before, and I have never experienced it. I am at a loss as to what is causing it.

The Druid was really looiking forward to that chitinous hide.

I suggest you convince your druid to gather his allies and go ankheg hunting, then return to Taerom to have its shell made into a set of armour. Repeat if you want more than one.

I realise that but I meant the way we couldn't enter a store to buy a scroll when one of the party got petrified, as if the party was scattered - is that a bug? When a party member is petrified, shouldn't it be removed from the party? Something odd happened in a Vanilla game a few years back when Montaron got petrified as well, he didn't recognise us when we re-fleshed him and was a different level - something to do with the NPC chr files available.

If this is the case, it may be a bug but it is beyond anything I can do as this is related to the hardcoded parts of the engine.

The Good/Evil = Forward/Reversed spell thing is an ancient rule, and I'm sure S&M mentions the Law/Chaos access.

Apparently too ancient for me to know. Where can I find it? Also, PO:S&M does not deal with clerics in the way you described earlier. That applies to crusaders which are neither in the game nor in the mod.

-Echon

[Meddle.]

Haha
After i reinstalled BG and FotD and resumed game, my medium shield +1 said it's History of Shadowdale vol. 6. Haha. Now i think, maybe the problem is this questionable handmande patch i use. looks like it has uninstall option. thats better

[Echon]

If you have got the seperate patch, do not use it as it is now outdated. 1.02 is what you should get.

-Echon

[Shadowblade]

Going to another map stops the problem with the protagonist bumping into invisible walls. It resumes when going back to the Dryad tree map. Changing the lead character sometimes fixes it, but after clearing out some other maps and returning it seems OK now.

Chant - the Cleric continually recasts Chant, presumably to simulate the fact she has to chant, cannot attack and can only conduct a slow walk. However, if she walks at all the spell is aborted. A better way to simulate the real spell might be to have a script that overrides the current script when Chant is cast and stops her casting other spells or attacking until she is told to cast or fight by the player. But moving from a to b shouldn't abort the spell or interfere with the Chant script (if that is possible).

Better yet, make a Prayer spell.


~

[Echon]

Chant - the Cleric continually recasts Chant, presumably to simulate the fact she has to chant, cannot attack and can only conduct a slow walk. However, if she walks at all the spell is aborted.

Why does that surprise you? You appear to be familiar with P&P and the description of Chant in PHB states that the priest must be stationary.

Better yet, make a Prayer spell.

I do not intend to add additional spells to the mod that require that I go back and add them to a number of all the NPCs that would access to them.

-Echon

[Shadowblade]

If that is so then I am in error. Perhaps it's Prayer that allows a slow walk. I thought Chant did and Prayer allowed other activities.


~

[Shadowblade]

Now, I'm pretty sure that S&M, when it corrected a lot of the PHB Sphere errors, put Protection from Fire in Elemental Fire only, not the Protection sphere as well.

~

[Shadowblade]

Is the phase spider venom supposed to do 1000 hp damage?!?

~

[Echon]

I believe that Protection from Fire not being in the sphere of Protection is an error, given that spells such as Endure Cold/Endure Heat and Resist Fire/Resist Cold are still there. There are some errors in those lists, one or two spells from PHB are not to be found at all.

1000 points of damage is meant to represent instant death. The poison opcode has to do a specific amount of damage, it cannot just kill the character.

-Echon

[raptor]

Imported an character at level 1 i made for an earlier game. (illusionist level1) he had the blindness spell, i tried casting it it didnt work. so i looked aroudn and found a new version of it at Talantyr, wrote it to spellbook, but that one didnt work either. (also it is listed as level 2 in description and is put into level 1 spells in spellbook).

Would be very nice to see this one of my favorite spells to actually work. curentlly the wizard stands swaying a little bit and tehn nothing, doesn't even use up the memorised slot.

I will try a bit more with this and new character and such though.

[Echon]

Blindness is a 2nd level spell now and this is also listed correctly in the SPL file. I think you are having problems because you imported that character who has already scribed it as a 1st level spell.

-Echon

[raptor]

Tried a bit more, and still have problems. Also the Scroll i bought from Talantyr, write the spell into my level 1 page, even if the description says level 2. So the first character i tried ended up with two blindness in level 1 that didnt work, my second character now, made new got one blindness that write itself to level 1, and still don't work.

Ill try again some later day (when i have time) by manually copying back the blindness spell from vanilla. just to see how it goes.

[Echon]

This is odd. I have had a look at the store, the scroll, and the spell, and I could not find any errors.

Try adding it using the CLUA Console: CLUAConsole:AddSpell("SPWI106"). Remember to keep the cursor above your character.
http://iesdp.gibberlings3.net/clua/bg1.htm

-Echon

[Shadowblade]

I believe that Protection from Fire not being in the sphere of Protection is an error, given that spells such as Endure Cold/Endure Heat and Resist Fire/Resist Cold are still there.

 
That's no error, those 2nd edit fools got an autistic teenager who'd never played the game to design those spheres. Protection from Fire was a Druid spell in 1E and the purpose of the S&M corrections was to restore that feel to the class as the Cleric got dozens of spellls he should never have had by the Druid having to share them and the Druid lost a dozen or more unique Druidic spells which defined him as a class and mythos. The Cleric never needed Protection from Fire as he had Flamewalk, which does virtually the same thing and could be a Protection or a Charm spell. The Cleric got Flameblade and Spiritual Hammer, Magick Font and Reflecting Pool, Commune and Commune with Nature while the Druid got neither, all the Sun spells, a bunch of Weather spells, a load of unique Druid spells for a nonsense Creation sphere with no possible minor access, Call Woodland Beings when the Druid couldn't cast it at all, all the Elemental Fire spells when he should only have had Air, Water and some earth, Reincarnate and Resurrection and the Druid lost Cure Disease which he could cast as a 2nd level character in 1E and Neutralise Poison was delayed until 7th level when he could cast it at 3rd level which, given that his natural terrain is basically like your version of the Cloakwood is pretty much an essential part of what Druids were all about.. What a crock! Half-baked, half-cocked and half-thought out. And that's just off the top of my head. Don't get me started!
 

Is Protection from Lightning in the Protection sphere?

Anyway, I thought the idea was to create a true AD&D 2nd edit BGI a la S&M, whether you agree with the rules or not?

There are some errors in those lists, one or two spells from PHB are not to be found at all.

But this isn't one of them (see Jon Picken's article, Dragon 205).
Foirbiddance was left off every single printing of the PHB between 1989 and the release of S&M.

~

[Echon]

Is Protection from Lightning in the Protection sphere?

Anyway, I thought the idea was to create a true AD&D 2nd edit BGI a la S&M, whether you agree with the rules or not?

No, it is only in the Weather sphere.

It is.

But this isn't one of them (see Jon Picken's article, Dragon 205).
Foirbiddance was left off every single printing of the PHB between 1989 and the release of S&M.

What I was hinting at was that since there are already errors in these lists, this might be another one although on second thought it does not appear to be the case. Know Alignment is not in any of the spheres, by the way.

-Echon

[Shadowblade]

Is that right? In the S&M listings? I'll check later.

I can't remember if it's still in Divination or got moved to All.

Any others you can think of? I remember Tome of Magick having several errors and omissions. Mind Tracker being listed as Mind Killer, so I was looking for thie really cool Dune-like Fear spell. The sphere in some new spell descirptions didn't match the sphere list in the appendix and so on.

The original 2E PHB had several Wizard Illusions missing from the School lists.

No, removing Protection from Fire from Protection was deliberate and part of re-balancing the Druid and Cleric, same as changing the spheres they had access to.


Cheers

~