Author Topic: Tougher Roenalls?  (Read 10817 times)

Offline belboz

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 78
Tougher Roenalls?
« on: March 29, 2005, 04:42:16 PM »
This may be beyond the scope of this mod (in which case please feel free to move it), but since it looks like the mod may involve some keep changes, I thought perhaps I'd post it here.

The final keep encounter--good old Farthington Roenall and his lackeys--is, well, pretty pathetic. It's not so much that it's unrealistic as that it's simply not a challenge. You generally won't get to this encounter until Chapter 6, and by that point, it's a complete walkover. It seemed like *Glacias* was tougher than this guy.

Contrast, for example, the final quest for the Paladin stronghold: Now *that's* a Chapter 6-appropriate enemy.

Any thoughts on the desirability of changing this? Maybe giving Farthy himself and the Roenall guard captain a few extra levels (bringing FR up to maybe level 20, and his captain up to level 16 or so), and making a lot more Roenall guards (maybe even a stream of them, a la a very toned-down version of Yaga Shura's battle or the Orc battle in Watcher's Keep)?

If the battle were made a real challenge, it might be appropriate to get a real reward for it too. Perhaps nothing as fancy as Carsomyr and RDSM, but at least the sort of equipment that a fighter might seriously consider using until the end of SoA.

Offline melora

  • The Quiet Storm
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
  • Gender: Female
  • I don't need your attitude, i have one of my own !
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2005, 05:29:11 PM »
i must be dyslexic.... at first glance, i thought the topic read "rougher toenails!"
 ::)
Somebody had to be me; it might as well be me.<br />-Charles Barkley

Offline CamDawg

  • Infidel
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
  • Dreaming of a red Xmas
    • The Gibberlings Three
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2005, 06:44:04 PM »
I'd like to see Lord F. secretly be a dracolich and member of the Twisted Rune.
The Gibberlings Three - Home of IE Mods

The BG2 Fixpack - All the fixes of Baldurdash, plus a few hundred more. Now available, with more fixes being added in every release.

Offline icelus

  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2005, 06:46:56 PM »
He already is a member. 
<Moongaze> Luckily BWL has a very understanding and friendly admin.

Offline Kismet

  • Devil's Minion #5
  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
  • Gender: Female
  • Veni; Vidi; Velcro.
    • Pocket Plane Group
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2005, 06:49:30 PM »
i must be dyslexic.... at first glance, i thought the topic read "rougher toenails!"
 ::)


The subtitle of this mod is "Nalia gets a pedicure."
Cailean - An archer NPC for the insatiably nosy!  Guaranteed more fun than shampooing cats!

Offline Loké

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 64
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2005, 06:57:38 AM »
This may be beyond the scope of this mod (in which case please feel free to move it), but since it looks like the mod may involve some keep changes, I thought perhaps I'd post it here.

The final keep encounter--good old Farthington Roenall and his lackeys--is, well, pretty pathetic. It's not so much that it's unrealistic as that it's simply not a challenge. You generally won't get to this encounter until Chapter 6, and by that point, it's a complete walkover. It seemed like *Glacias* was tougher than this guy.

Yea, but you're an adventurer who's slain dragons, mages, drow, demons.. hell practically everything but the damned Tarrasque! Toenail-oh ********* now you'vegot ME doing it melora!-Roenall is some stuck up lord with delusions of granduer and superiority who's appeared to have never have a real fight in his life. Go figure.

Offline Xiao

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 336
  • Gender: Female
  • Do not taunt Happy Fun Xiao.
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2005, 07:52:28 AM »
i must be dyslexic.... at first glance, i thought the topic read "rougher toenails!"
 ::)


The subtitle of this mod is "Nalia gets a pedicure."
Can we expect foot massages in the flirts, then?  This mod will have to compete with Cailean's Aura of Straddling, after all.

Melora, I saw that at first glance as well.

Offline belboz

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 78
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2005, 06:02:38 PM »
Quote from: Loké
Yea, but you're an adventurer who's slain dragons, mages, drow, demons.. hell practically everything but the damned Tarrasque! Toenail-oh ********* now you'vegot ME doing it melora!-Roenall is some stuck up lord with delusions of granduer and superiority who's appeared to have never have a real fight in his life. Go figure.

Well, like I said, my complaint about the battle isn't that it's unrealistic. It's that, from a gaming perspective, it's a lousy climax. If the Roenalls are going to be so wimpy, make them the first strongold quest, not the last. The way it is now, why have the battle at all? Why not

FARTHINGTON ROENALL: "We shall take the lands that are rightfully ours!"
CHARNAME: "No, I think I'll kill you instead."
CHARNAME: [You slay the entire Roenall army, who after all are just a bunch of uppity nobles and the bog-standard mercenaries they employ.]

Dispense with the battle scene; it's over much more quickly and less tediously.

Quote from: CamDawg
I'd like to see Lord F. secretly be a dracolich and member of the Twisted Rune.

 :). But seriously, I'm not proposing Roenall be made some weird supernatural being or member of an occult organization. Just that he be a powerful (though still within the range of SoA-villains; certainly weaker than Bodhi or Jon) fighter, which seems perfectly plausible (if, admittedly, not required by realism).

Offline NiGHTMARE

  • Idiot
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2005, 06:13:20 PM »
Lord F.
Aha, so that's who Corhvale and Bregg were reffering to! :D
« Last Edit: March 30, 2005, 06:24:32 PM by NiGHTMARE »
The Gibberlings Three - home to the BG1 NPC Project, BG2 Tweak Pack, Divine Remix, GemRB, Lands of Intrigue, Song & Silence, and many more!

Offline Reverendratbastard

  • Perfunctory Psychopomp
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
  • Gender: Male
  • "to keep my metaphysics warm" -T.S.Eliot
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2005, 07:33:05 PM »
Lord F.
Aha, so that's who Corhvale and Bregg were reffering to! :D

  <dingdingdingdingding>  :D
 
  they were just keeping an eye out for nalia... yeah, that's it...
the lord of murder shall perish, yadda yadda yadda.

Offline CamDawg

  • Infidel
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
  • Dreaming of a red Xmas
    • The Gibberlings Three
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2005, 07:39:38 PM »
Lord F.
Aha, so that's who Corhvale and Bregg were reffering to! :D
The Twisted Rune just gets bigger... and bigger... and bigger... ;)
The Gibberlings Three - Home of IE Mods

The BG2 Fixpack - All the fixes of Baldurdash, plus a few hundred more. Now available, with more fixes being added in every release.

Offline Silk

  • Lurker First Class
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 401
  • Gender: Female
  • A cat of many colours
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2005, 12:00:16 AM »
But ... but .. they said Mr F ..... "Calm down, Corhvale, Mr F don't like ye killing people in the streets"
"Some say that our destinies may be read in the stars, that the plans of the gods are revealed to those who but know where to look.  They speak it true but their location is false, for I have seen my destiny shining in your eyes" (Anomen, PPG NPC Flirt Pack)

"You know you're tired when you get up from the desk and the headset's still around your neck"

Offline jcompton

  • Niche Exploiter
  • Administrator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 7246
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2005, 12:29:22 AM »
Quote from: Loké
Yea, but you're an adventurer who's slain dragons, mages, drow, demons.. hell practically everything but the damned Tarrasque! Toenail-oh ********* now you'vegot ME doing it melora!-Roenall is some stuck up lord with delusions of granduer and superiority who's appeared to have never have a real fight in his life. Go figure.

Well, like I said, my complaint about the battle isn't that it's unrealistic. It's that, from a gaming perspective, it's a lousy climax.

Yes, you're quite right. Really, all Nalia needs to do is bomb them a couple of times with fireball or whatever and it's over. We will try to make the combat a little more engaging.

(and, I'll work on that pedicure flirt, too.)
Cespenar says, "Kelsey and friends be at the Pocket Plane? Ohhh yesssss!" http://www.pocketplane.net

Offline Caedwyr

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 433
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2005, 01:09:53 PM »
So, any chance for a kensai-mage dracolich, or maybe even to occasional demi-lich?  It'd make sense for a powerful lord to have powerful guards.
"Knowledge is Power.  Power Corrupts.  Study Hard.  Be Evil."  - Mikka

PnP Celestials
Geomantic Sorcerer Kit

Offline jcompton

  • Niche Exploiter
  • Administrator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 7246
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2005, 01:36:36 PM »
I think I'll manage to keep the encounter lich-free.
Cespenar says, "Kelsey and friends be at the Pocket Plane? Ohhh yesssss!" http://www.pocketplane.net

Offline Xiao

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 336
  • Gender: Female
  • Do not taunt Happy Fun Xiao.
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2005, 02:11:20 PM »
Aw, but why?  Liches are apparently a dime a dozen in SoA/ToB, don't you want to be like one of the "cool kids?"

(Off the top of my head - the Nether Scroll quest, that quest with the golden body parts, Vongoethe, the one hanging out in Spellhold, the one in the hidden "back room" in the Crooked Crane... any others?)

Offline Loké

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 64
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2005, 03:41:07 PM »
One in the unseeing eye...

Offline NiGHTMARE

  • Idiot
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2005, 04:35:38 PM »
Hmm, so Lord de'Arnise is going to be a vampire instead? :P
The Gibberlings Three - home to the BG1 NPC Project, BG2 Tweak Pack, Divine Remix, GemRB, Lands of Intrigue, Song & Silence, and many more!

Offline Ghreyfain

  • PPG
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 4705
  • Gender: Male
    • Pocket Plane Group
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2005, 05:00:37 PM »
I vote for beholder, myself.
Earn Money Sleeping.

Offline Lord Kain

  • "I was the 500th member on the old forgottenwars forum and all I got was this lousy title"
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 379
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2005, 07:53:45 PM »
go a head give him an army of 30, 8th level characters,


12 Fighters
4 Wizards
4 Clerics
2 Backstabing rouges.

Then nalia can wipe them all out with one 6th level spell called "Death Spell"
Now, at last, the masks had fallen away.  The strings of the puppets had become visible, and the hands of the prime mover exposed.  Most ironic of all was the last gift that Raziel had given me, more powerful than the sword that now held his soul, more acute even than the vision his sacrifice had accorded me - the first bitter taste of that terrible illusion:  Hope.

Offline Caedwyr

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 433
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2005, 12:21:30 AM »
Actually, with a beholder, you could work Sim's Spectator Beholder romance into the whole Nalia romance thing.  I hear there were some cut dialogues that hinted of something like this, so you may even be able to get a tie in with UB.
"Knowledge is Power.  Power Corrupts.  Study Hard.  Be Evil."  - Mikka

PnP Celestials
Geomantic Sorcerer Kit

Offline Black Robed One

  • Gentlemanly Magician and
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 48
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2005, 06:34:02 AM »

Yea, but you're an adventurer who's slain dragons, mages, drow, demons.. hell practically everything but the damned Tarrasque! Toenail-oh ********* now you'vegot ME doing it melora!-Roenall is some stuck up lord with delusions of granduer and superiority who's appeared to have never have a real fight in his life. Go figure.

I second that. As much as we like a good challenge, I find it hard to believe that Farthie Ji-chan will be anywhere near as powerful as <CHARNAME> (or Nalia for that matter, after a couple of moderately long quests, that’s it).

It may be more logical, as well as more challenging, to give Farthie Ji-chan more men and/or more powerful men (I would rather expect some of them to be of higher level then Farthie Ji-chan himself), but it will be rather illogical to make Farthie Ji-chan more powerful; I agree he falls pretty easily (even before the 6th Chapter), but then again, that’s how it should be.

If you wish to add more challenges to “Ruling D’Arnise Hold and Lands”, I would suggest to look at Isea instead. You don’t really get to face him in combat (but I feel like this mod is going to change that), but he struck me as pretty capable, intelligent and resourceful, and VERY persistent when it comes to getting what he wants.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that Isea would let <CHARNAME> go so easily, never even trying to get a revenge for <CHARNAME>’s exposing his illegal affairs. But where his father never goes beyond using intimidation and brute force, I expect Isea to be far more subtle and… imaginative.

P.S.

But ... but .. they said Mr F ..... "Calm down, Corhvale, Mr F don't like ye killing people in the streets"

Were these two muggers from Twisted Rune?

Offline jester

  • Here be dragons...
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 2416
  • If you fail, fail gloriously.
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2005, 09:02:23 AM »
@Were these two muggers from Twisted Rune?

I always considered them Firkraag's bodyguards which would be sort of ironic as a soloing mage could kill them with a sling and a fair bit of running.

Giving the old geezer enough troops to make it a plausible battle could burden some systems, I guess.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

Why spend all your day surfing for porn?




Balance in all things
I haven't had this much fun since... the last time.

Offline Xiao

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 336
  • Gender: Female
  • Do not taunt Happy Fun Xiao.
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2005, 09:19:28 AM »
I always considered them Firkraag's bodyguards which would be sort of ironic as a soloing mage could kill them with a sling and a fair bit of running.

Giving the old geezer enough troops to make it a plausible battle could burden some systems, I guess.
*light dawns*  Wow, that makes some sense.  For some reason I never connected them with him.

(Another "who the heck was..." stupid question: Do you ever get to find out more about The Hidden from Jan's quest with saving his ex-GF's kid?  You talk to Lady Jysstev about setting up a meeting, then meet this Hidden dude who threatens your life a few times if you betray him/talk about ever meeting him/look at him crosseyed, and the kid's saved but her jerk dad says it's unrelated, and poof, nothing else.)

Offline Black Robed One

  • Gentlemanly Magician and
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 48
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tougher Roenalls?
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2005, 09:42:25 AM »

Giving the old geezer enough troops to make it a plausible battle could burden some systems, I guess.


Well then, it is possible to make his troops stronger; it is unlikely that Farthie Ji-chan is a warrior of much skill himself, but it is logical to assume that he storms your stronghold’s gate with his best men (or the best mercenaries his gold could buy).

But battle still ends with Farthie Ji-chan’s death, so… (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/aetsch/cheeky-smiley-028.gif)

@Were these two muggers from Twisted Rune?

I always considered them Firkraag's bodyguards which would be sort of ironic as a soloing mage could kill them with a sling and a fair bit of running.


Are you certain? I don’t think Firkraag needs bodyguards; even in his human form, in which he loses his supernatural strength, he remains VERY tough (with all his draconic Hit Dices) and retains all the fighting skill her learned in centuries as well as his vast magical power. I imagine he can walk through streets of Athkalta in the middle of the night, occasionally killing annoying mugger-wannabes as flies.

 

With Quick-Reply you can write a post when viewing a topic without loading a new page. You can still use bulletin board code and smileys as you would in a normal post.

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

Name: Email:
Verification:
Type the letters shown in the picture
Listen to the letters / Request another image
Type the letters shown in the picture:
What color is grass?:
What is the seventh word in this sentence?:
What is five minus two (use the full word)?: