Author Topic: First impressions of NPC's  (Read 10646 times)

Offline Eral

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First impressions of NPC's
« on: March 17, 2005, 12:01:24 AM »
How are you affected by your first impression of an NPC?
Lu got me thinking about this, because she gets put off when she thinks a character is overpowered, and chooses not to play them.
I am much wussier than Lu, I get put off by characters I perceive as underpowered. I usually only play them until I get their quest points, or they are killed by goblins or something else equally humiliating, and then I drop their bodies for the wolves. (Well, actually, I always put them away tidily. I hate stumbling over bodies of abandoned NPC's.)
Both Ashara and discharger find Cernd valuable (Two people who like him! Two! I thought one was amazing.)
Kelsey's intelligence of 12 had me wondering if an alternative romance was really worth it (is there any chance jc is on holiday and won't see that?) and if Minsc hadn't levelled up one day on the way to the gnolls, allowing me to give him ranged weapons ability, I would probably have never played him past rescuing Dynaheir. (I only really gave him a chance after so many other people said how good he was.)
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2005, 12:45:52 AM »
Kelsey's intelligence of 12

10 intelligence is average, and sorcerors are not wizards.

Anything over +2 enchantment is horrible.

80+ stat points is ridiculous.

ForceSpell() is what Hitler used to invade Poland.

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Offline Finelines

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2005, 03:07:15 AM »
Good ... I hate avocados :P

Seriously though, in answer to your question, I usually drop Minsc in BG2 now.  I played him through the first time but since then my gameplay style has changed and having Boo in a quick item slot is limiting.  Why can't Boo be like Keto's bottle of wine and her pipes - in the backpack where they belong.  Minsc is always going on about Boo being in his pack, so why isn't he there?  Even familiars get stored in your pack.

I've never played Cernd through at all because I find him annoying - always spouting his platitudes about nature and he doesn't really seem to have much to contribute to the party in terms of helpfulness.  Maybe he's better as he levels up, I don't know, I've never kept him that long.

Viconia's the better cleric (if you can get over the fact she has a constitution as good as a box of tissues and strength to match - same with Aerie) but as I usually play female I usually drop her in favour of Anomen, who's romancable and you can improve him if you make him pass his test.  Another thought about Aerie - she's always seemed to me to be too innocent to be allowed out of the circus tent - her comments and over-enthusiasm make that abundantly clear.

I've used Mazzy a few times, although I *hate* her avatar but adore her English accent and she can fight.

I've also used Valygar a few times, his dryness is adorable. "Giving orders now, are we?"

I used to pick up Kelsey at the beginning but the fact his talks and Anomen's override each other annoyed me and now, if I'm not romancing him" I pick him up towards the end, before the Underdark.

I always keep Jahiera because she made that promise to Gorion and I tend to look on her as "Mum" plus she has such an interesting sub-plot with the Harpers.  She doesn't annoy me the way she seems to annoy others.

Lately my party has consisted of - Me, Jahiera, Anomen, Yoshimo/Imoen, Kelsey, Keto.  Keto is interchangeable with Nalia, Valygar or Mazzy.

Question:  If you manage a bloodless resolution to Keldorn's family problems, is there any way you can pick him up again?
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Offline jester

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2005, 03:31:36 AM »
@10 intelligence is average, and sorcerors are not wizards.
Hush, he was the son of the boss after all and not 'the apprentice'!

@Anything over +2 enchantment is horrible.
You should have a pretty convincing reason to carry anything enchanted, but that is another shortfall in CRPGs which very oftn put the ultimate reward in some commoners chest for you to find casually in chapter 2 rather than in a dragon's hoard.

@ForceSpell() is what Hitler used to invade Poland.
Rasputin perhaps?

@Every time someone dual-wields anything other than a sword with a dagger, god kills an avocado.
Avocado? Abogado?

I always feel that the game let's the party become too powerful, too quickly and the mentioned downsides make an NPC often worth to have around. My only NPC I always recruit is Jan for he has the kneecaps area covered and is just the sort of adventurer that fits my profile. Dak'kon and Xan with their cheerful attitudes are close seconds.
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Offline Eral

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2005, 04:15:31 AM »
Finelines: Answer to question about Keldorn: sleep for 24 hours, go back to his house, he will join you. Doesn't quite work with the story, but do you want him or not? Yes, you do.

Ghrey, I'm going to ignore most of what you are saying, because: I have found sorcerors (usually my PC) with low intelligence are crap at identifying items; I love +3 enchantment and above; once a number goes above 20 I lose all comprehension of it; and I do not know what a ForceSpell or dual-wielding is. Finelines might hate avocados, but I do not, and neither does God. I am sure.

Jester is with Lu on overpowered NPC's. O.K.  He is clearly a purist on weapons, too, but each to his own. (I love a +5 weapon I probably should be ashamed to say.) I like Jan too, but mainly because he is the only decent thief in the game, he is funny, and jc has made a bunch of fun things for him to give to party members.

Anybody else?  :)


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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2005, 06:14:15 AM »
I almost always buy glasses of identification, unless I'm going to run a bard or a sorc in the party. Why don't I need em with a sorcerer? He has 7 identifys per day. Well, identifys interchangable with Magic Missiles and Chromatic Orbs
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Offline Xiao

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2005, 06:16:31 AM »
I love Kelsey.  If I want someone who's great at IDing, I drag Keto along, or buy those glasses of identification.

Minsc... isn't that great of a tank.  He's better at comic relief.  I've found Anomen to be a better tank, frankly.  I give him the Flail of Ages and let him kick butt.  Kelsey and Anomen's bickering gets on my nerves, but it stops once you have to choose between them, so that's something at least.  I try to just get through that part and then enjoy the rest.

I don't take evil characters often because I'm too much of a freaking goody-goody, so even with Ease-of-Use's Happy running, they still bolt at reputation 20.

Yeah, Keldorn will be happy with a day or three with his wife, and then it's off to help you save your friend, and then he'll be right back home, promise.  Whoops, he'll hang out to help Imoen and you save your souls.  Then it's TOB and he hasn't quite managed to leave Suldanesselar yet, and hmm, guess he'll postpone that whole retirement thing to help save the world...  OK, so he'd suck as a husband, but he's a pretty kickass tank.

Jan's best to watch and see how the other characters roll their eyes over him.  He nearly drove Mazzy into a murderous rage, I swear.

Cernd seems bland, plus I don't need another druid along.  Typically I either want Jaheira (RP reasons and/or she can rez), or I don't want any druid at all.

Aerie's annoying, plus dual-classed characters lag behind so far in levels.  Yet another reason for me to not pick up her, Jaheira, or Jan.

Nalia drives me up the nearest wall (sorry, Jason).  Her whole poor little rich girl schtick is annoying, and every time I hear the "I don't like cities; they're built on the backs of the less fortunate" line I want to scream.  Oh, and her bitching about "how are we helping the less fortunate?" when we're doing so by clearing Firkraag's dungeon/Amaunator's temple - or even her own family's keep? - that has to go.  Find this girl a gag, please.  The last couple times she's approached me in the tavern, I've hit Ctrl-Y on her... very satisfying.

I like Mazzy, hate her inventory screen figure, though.  Cute little accent (NB: she also voiced Dynaheir in BG1, and Bastila in KotOR), and sympathetic in her dream of wanting to become a paladin.  The knight-squire thing with Valygar is cute, and he's a decent enough fighter if a bit squishy (like Minsc).

Offline Finelines

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2005, 06:33:29 AM »
I got so annoyed with Mazzy's avatar that I SK'd her into human and *made* her a paladin.  Great, now she can weild Carsonmyr.
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Offline Gay Lord

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2005, 07:40:42 AM »
Jester, Xan is cheerful?  I'll admit I haven't even talked to him since I first got the game when it came out, but I seem to recall him being very dour and dreary, a total downer.  I was so eager to pick up this elf mage with a moonblade, that I nudged somebody else down a mineshaft to fit him in the party, only to drop him later when he kept pissing on everyone's parade.  Reminds me of a skit from SNL.

I think it was Xan...

Offline Kismet

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2005, 07:48:18 AM »
Outragous stats haven't stopped me from picking up NPCs but bad and/or unreasonable dialog has caused me to drop them.
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Offline Ashara

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2005, 09:55:35 AM »
Very different.

I fell for Kivan at the first sight.  FOREVAR For all I care he could have had all 25's or all 3's in stats. I would take him anyway.
Characters like Faldorn, Coran, Xan or Kelsey grew on me with time
Characters like Valygar, Mazzy, Branwen or Dynaheir I quietly liked all along and never grew dissapointed in
Characters like Skie, Nalia or Aerie I sometimes adore and sometimes just ignore
Solaufein I was prepared to love, adore and cherish, but he turned me off almost immediately by his attempts to lecture my PC on Ellistraae without her being given a chance to put a word in and that horrendous vampire sequence... never tried him again
I liked Imoen in the first game, but in the second game I was immediately turned off her by her being forced upon me and the subplot I despised
Characters like Jaheira or Viconia I never liked and keep disliking
Characters like Korgan and Edwin I tried to give a chane a few times, and never succeeded because I simply could not imagine associateing with anyone like that

Majority o the characters though, I like using for a time, building different party compositions, seeing their interactions and personality, especially in BG1, where the choices are pretty much infinite :)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2005, 09:58:13 AM by Ashara »
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Offline Xiao

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2005, 10:10:12 AM »
Jester, Xan is cheerful?  I'll admit I haven't even talked to him since I first got the game when it came out, but I seem to recall him being very dour and dreary, a total downer.  I was so eager to pick up this elf mage with a moonblade, that I nudged somebody else down a mineshaft to fit him in the party, only to drop him later when he kept pissing on everyone's parade.  Reminds me of a skit from SNL.
Yeah, I suspect he's being sarcastic.

I don't mind somewhat overpowered too much these days - if I'm playing the game, it's probably because I want to see new characters/new combos of characters, and so I'm going to probably be speeding through and skipping a number of side quests as is.  If you're tougher, you can deal better with the lack of levels.  Like Kismet, I find poor dialog to be a worse offense.

I'm peeved that I feel compelled for plot/RP reasons to keep Jaheira, Minsc, and Imoen around.  I feel less bad about Imoen, but still - when I finished BG1, I don't think I had Minsc and Jaheira.  I'm pretty darned sure I didn't have Jaheira at least, as Khalid bugged the crap out of me in BG1, and Jaheira is just mean at times.  Yeah, she means well, but she doesn't show it that often to the PC.  I did have Ajantis, who I liked a lot in BG1, and who I was pissed to see only shows up in BG2 as a corpse that you helped make (the "ogre" attack in Windspear), and with no opportunity to react to that discovery when Keldorn mentions it.  Typically I try to replace Minsc and Jaheira.

I didn't pick up Kivan in BG1 until pretty late, IIRC (been a while, I don't recall), so I didn't see much of him.  I'm not real fond of his voice set, though, so even though I like the Kivan of Shilmista mod well enough, that still bugs me.  I only had Solaufein in my group from TOB on, and was romancing Kelsey at the time; I didn't see anything too overtly romantic in Sola's talks, so I didn't tell him to knock it off, and it never got to a conflict point before the end of the game.  (At which point I got the romance epilogue for both Kelsey and Sola - no I did not have Multi-Romance installed - and said wtf?)

Offline Kismet

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2005, 10:15:59 AM »
(At which point I got the romance epilogue for both Kelsey and Sola - no I did not have Multi-Romance installed - and said wtf?)

The multiromance script only deals with the stock Bioware romances.  Kelsey has a Solaufein conflict piece, but if you didn't have that part installed then they'll just ignore the fact that you're romancing both.
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Offline Xiao

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2005, 10:22:43 AM »
(At which point I got the romance epilogue for both Kelsey and Sola - no I did not have Multi-Romance installed - and said wtf?)
The multiromance script only deals with the stock Bioware romances.  Kelsey has a Solaufein conflict piece, but if you didn't have that part installed then they'll just ignore the fact that you're romancing both.
The conflict portion is installed.  The last "romance" dialog that I clearly remember is the "walk under the trees with me" one, and Kelsey did not object at any time.

Offline Ashara

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2005, 10:56:39 AM »
Quote
I didn't pick up Kivan in BG1 until pretty late, IIRC (been a while, I don't recall), so I didn't see much of him.  I'm not real fond of his voice set, though, so even though I like the Kivan of Shilmista mod well enough, that still bugs me

His vocie set is hit and miss, imo - unfortunately someone with a very good voice who was going to revoice Kivan for me became unavailable... and finding a voice actor is almost as hopeless as finding an area artist... so, yes, have to stick with BG1 set. Deheriana's set, though, I love to bits. Uhm, sorry for off-topic.
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Offline jcompton

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2005, 10:59:37 AM »
Kelsey's intelligence of 12 had me wondering if an alternative romance was really worth it (is there any chance jc is on holiday and won't see that?)

I see all.

But it's an interesting reminder of the reasons we used to "bribe" people to play NPCs, with the likes of Kelsey's cloak and very-high-for-a-mage HP and so forth.

Quote
I have found sorcerors (usually my PC) with low intelligence are crap at identifying items

Even with high INT they are, because they don't get the wizard's lore progression.

The conflict portion is installed. The last "romance" dialog that I clearly remember is the "walk under the trees with me" one, and Kelsey did not object at any time.

Maybe Kelsey missed it somehow. Or maybe the conflict needs to happen earlier if Weimer gives the romance epilogue at an earlier "talk" than Kelsey will object. The trouble is that it's very difficult to justify from a story standpoint because he has no real clues there's a romance going on until he starts crabbing.

Minsc is always going on about Boo being in his pack, so why isn't he there?  Even familiars get stored in your pack.

Being in the quickslot implies that Boo is very close at hand, not stashed at the bottom with cookie crumbs. Which stands to reason, what with Minsc's portrait showing him... in Minsc's hand.

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Offline Xiao

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2005, 11:45:38 AM »
I like the "convenience" of a sorcerer - like the man himself explains, a wizard has to plan ahead for encounters, while sorcerers are more flexible in their spellcasting.  I encountered the class first in NWN, and loved it enough to play one for a number of games, so when I saw a NPC sorc for BG2, that was a good thing in my eyes.  I don't think I even noticed the Int score for a while.  (Is it just me?  I rarely check their stats unless something seems amiss, like Viconia getting encumbered with almost any gear.)

The conflict portion is installed. The last "romance" dialog that I clearly remember is the "walk under the trees with me" one, and Kelsey did not object at any time.

Maybe Kelsey missed it somehow. Or maybe the conflict needs to happen earlier if Weimer gives the romance epilogue at an earlier "talk" than Kelsey will object. The trouble is that it's very difficult to justify from a story standpoint because he has no real clues there's a romance going on until he starts crabbing.
I could have also screwed with things somehow by picking up Sola only in ToB.  I had an established romance with Kelsey, grabbed Sola via the Fate Spirit in the Pocket Plane, and Sola started doing his poetry quotations.  I didn't see anything objectionable (though the "walk under the trees with me" bit would have earned a raised eyebrow from my character, at least, but nothing more overt came about), so I let it go, end game happens, and wham, two romance endings.  IIRC, Sola's talk before the Big Decision was also romantic in tone.  Anyway, I haven't picked him up since (just due to party makeup needs/wishes, not because of this).
« Last Edit: March 17, 2005, 11:50:35 AM by Xiao »

Offline Ashara

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2005, 11:50:14 AM »
Actually, two things I did immediately with Kelsey was hack up his int (I did not know a thing about sorcerers at the time, so I figured he'd be a lousy caster) and changed his portrait. And that was the first time I used NI and assaulted my override, I think :)
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Offline jester

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2005, 12:01:40 PM »
I have to admit that I have yet to try Kivan in BG2, but to make things worse and blurry I lurved Valen in her original form (all instinct no holds barred vampire). She was overpowered, but then again travelling with a real vamp has a lot of disadvantages. Usually I spend a fortune at the temple just to have to kill a couple of guards in the next area we visited again, because mylady insisted on munching on some peasants on the way. She should have even considered chewing on her own party while we were in uninhabited areas.

PC: 'What do you mean you are sick and tired of rats? No, no! Don't look at me that way. I am much to valuable, but Minsc could spare some blood, I guess.'

I like everything that has a sufficent and satisfying explanation and, no, 25 dex is not satisfying.

@ Jester, Xan is cheerful?
We are doomed anyway on this futile endeavour. So why explain? :P Dak'kon same attitude different game.
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Offline icelus

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2005, 12:36:40 PM »
I am shallow and will only pick up an NPC if their portrait is cool.  Sexy adventurers only, plz!  :D
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Offline Grim Squeaker

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2005, 12:40:36 PM »
I am shallow and will only pick up an NPC if their portrait is cool.  Sexy adventurers only, plz!  :D

So I see by your latest post in the Gibberlings Discussion forum at G3 :P
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Offline Ashara

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2005, 12:47:32 PM »
I have to admit that I have yet to try Kivan in BG2

Don't, I am adding to him like crazy nowadays. In our day and age, one cannot just rely on the old-fashioned brroding male charm, o, no. One gotta have intermijections.
Hang in there. I'll try to make you glad you did.
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There is nothing better than imagining other worlds [...] to forget the painful one we live in. At least so I thought then. I hadn't yet realized that, imagining other worlds, you end up changing this one.
-Umberto Eco, Baudolino

Three mods you shall make - one too bad and one to dread and one to love.

Offline jester

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2005, 03:20:05 PM »
So this might be an excellent choice for team Icelus. Straight from the American Gladiators: *drumroll* http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=3122 (Dang, Grim beat me to this. :( )

@Interjections:

Nah, I few well placed lines can outdo a myriad of copied poems.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2005, 04:15:20 PM by jester »
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Offline Eral

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2005, 05:00:05 PM »
Mazzy is another character I have never given a proper run to. I never felt comfortable putting her in the front line because she got mashed all the time, and there is no point having a fighter you can't put in the front line.

I once tried to play a game without Minsc, Jaheira and Imoen because I wanted to see the inter-actions b/w different characters.
I had to give up. I missed them too much. After so many years of playing I believe they're my family. I have come to like having Boo in the quickslot. I gave him away once to the dragon in Suldanessellar and only noticed when we were in hell, and yes, I reloaded and played it all again.

I never give Kelsey ID object- I like multiple MM too much. In IWD sorcerors with high INT identify objects well. This must be the source of my confusion.

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Offline Ashara

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Re: First impressions of NPC's
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2005, 05:51:46 PM »
Well, what I do with Mazzy is put the rest of her prophiciencies in the bastard swords and dualwield and she becomes quite a tank, especially when her high-level abilities kick in. Dual-wield + whirlwind attack = deadly. Properly applying the items of protection her AC can be dropped to the minimum and her Strength spell comes in handy. Same with Valygar. He gets Crom-Fyer and Celestual Fury, ring of regeneration, and the rest of us can sit back and relax while he carves the pass for us.

But, thenm again, I cannot play with Minsc, Imoen and Jaheira - so I was forced to explore other characters and make them useful and valuable. :)
Hang in there. I'll try to make you glad you did.
—George R.R. Martin

There is nothing better than imagining other worlds [...] to forget the painful one we live in. At least so I thought then. I hadn't yet realized that, imagining other worlds, you end up changing this one.
-Umberto Eco, Baudolino

Three mods you shall make - one too bad and one to dread and one to love.

 

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