Throne of Bhaal Unfinished Business

[Da_venom]

ofcourse it would be great
but then again
you have to think of UB it's made to put missing stuff into the game
not to create new stuff for the game
;-)

[Patrick Kaman]

Update ?

[Nijel]

-Mazzy's redemption of Korgan

That would be great. Having played with them in my party, I might say I like the idea and I can totally see that happen (if you never played with them, just read the dialogue where Korgan speaks of his past to Mazzy and you can see why he isn't core-evil). But I'm not sure of the timing in TOB (not much timespan), I mean it would be better if the redemption began in SoA, since things end rather abruptly there (Korgan says to Mazzy he will try for her sake to be less of an ass). In fact, this might be a great standalone mod, and I would love to work on it, but I'm a beginner modder so...

[SixOfSpades]

-Mazzy's redemption of Korgan

That would be great. Having played with them in my party, I might say I like the idea and I can totally see that happen.

Having played with both of them in my party, I can totally see why that would suck big-time. There are two reasons why Person A might influence a fundamental change in Person B's overall behavior/personality:
1) Person A has a good deal more strength of character than Person B, and Person B wants to be better liked/tolerated by Person A.
2) Person A has a good deal more strength of character than Person B, and Person B wants to be more like Person A.
Obviously, #1 is more likely, as Korgan wants into Mazzy's steel-plated pantaloons. But are you actually suggesting that Korgan is a man of weak moral fiber, easily influenced by a single person of an alignment diametrically opposed to his own? On the contrary, Korgan is about as confident and self-reliant as they come, and while he might not mind a romp on the right side of the blanket for a change, that's almost certainly all it would be, and he damn well knows it.

Besides, this game is notoriously stingy towards Evil parties, with the entire saga leaning so hard towards Good that it's not even funny. Sarevok? Both calculating and barbaric in his cruelty, and you can redeem him. Viconia? Unabashedly selfish and endlessly manipulative, and you can redeem her. Edwin? He's not really even Evil in the first place, he's just power-mad. That leaves only Korgan, and you want to redeem him too? Screw that. The game needs a Corrupt Aerie mod (and possibly Anomen as well) a lot more than a Redeem Korgan mod, whether that was part of BioWare's original intentions or not.

[ddv]

Corrupting Aerie? Now you're talking.

[Nijel]

Having played with both of them in my party, I can totally see why that would suck big-time. There are two reasons why Person A might influence a fundamental change in Person B's overall behavior/personality:
1) Person A has a good deal more strength of character than Person B, and Person B wants to be better liked/tolerated by Person A.
2) Person A has a good deal more strength of character than Person B, and Person B wants to be more like Person A.
Obviously, #1 is more likely, as Korgan wants into Mazzy's steel-plated pantaloons. But are you actually suggesting that Korgan is a man of weak moral fiber, easily influenced by a single person of an alignment diametrically opposed to his own? On the contrary, Korgan is about as confident and self-reliant as they come, and while he might not mind a romp on the right side of the blanket for a change, that's almost certainly all it would be, and he damn well knows it.

If you recall last banter in BG2 SOA, Korgan already says that he will try to be a better man dwarf for Mazzy's sake, and it's not an act (we're not talking Viconia here). So, it seems Bioware has already stated it's reason 2.
And I'm not saying that Korgan should switch from CE (though his actions are those of a NE) to CG.
As for Sarevok and Viconia, those are Bioware content choices you can make (and Viconia redeem comes after a long long way and has a sad end, so you really don't have anything to complain about here). Here, we're talking about mod content. It's up to you to install it or not (as well as redeeming Sarevok or not by the way). If you choose to have Viconia, Sarevok, Korgan and Mazzy and redeem all the three evil bastards in your party, that would totally be your choice.

As for NPC corruptions, Nalia comes to my mind (she just lost everything at the end of her quest, it can gets worse with her abduction and the uncooperating authority), as well as Imoen (she got tortured twice, seems a good reason to change to me) and more Anomen content (he got his Chaotic Neutral corruption already after all) but Aerie ? Why would she be corrupted.

And I'm not against more "evil" content, on the contrary. But since the matter at hand is the Korgan/Mazzy Unfinished Business, I stated my mind on the topic.

[Da_venom]

since aerie got tired of being weak and let het self be corrupted(due to evil humans cutting of her wings)
xD

[SixOfSpades]

If you recall last banter in BG2 SOA, Korgan already says that he will try to be a better man dwarf for Mazzy's sake

By "better," he's probably talking about good vs. bad, not the larger picture of Good vs. Evil. At most, I can see Korgan willing to abide by higher standards of grooming and manners (and grudgingly tone down his bloodthirstiness a notch) in order to sway Mazzy over--but offering to throw over his entire worldview is something else entirely. If you're talking about "redeeming" him from CE to NE, I wouldn't really mind that, but if the change bumps him up to Good or Neutral, that just perpetuates the idea that evil doesn't actually exist, and that CHARNAME missed his true calling of psychotherapy.

As for Aerie, she's easily pliable (a hell of a lot easier than Viconia, Sarevok, Korgan, or possibly even Anomen during his moment of crisis) because she's immature, physically and psychologically scarred, emotionally rather shallow, separated from everyone she's ever looked on as a mentor, thrust into a world where she's constantly being attacked (sometimes by members of her own party), and in general almost completely out of her depth. If there was ever somebody you could knock over with a feather, Aerie is it.

[Da_venom]

very vague to say the least
but bhaal wanted to come to earth realm right?
and by doing that he would need a child(to poses that one)
or something
so bhaal would be able to live on earth again
with his godly powers

[berelinde]

I'm illogically attracted to NPCs that can change over the course of the game, so both a redeemable Korgan and a corruptible Aerie hold tremendous appeal for me.

I'm already convinced that Aerie is already plenty manipulative. She goes on and on about her wings, but if she was really as traumatized as all that, she'd never have survived it. No, she just wants the attention, and is milking the PC's sympathy gland.

And I just love the idea of Mazzy being able to redeem Korgan. In my world, it wouldn't be the PC helping Korgan get over his past, it would be Mazzy. So no more PC as therapist.

[Da_venom]

true indeed:)

so annoying the pc has got to do all works:P
^^

[jcompton]

I'm already convinced that Aerie is already plenty manipulative. She goes on and on about her wings, but if she was really as traumatized as all that, she'd never have survived it. No, she just wants the attention, and is milking the PC's sympathy gland.

"Evil Aerie" strikes again!

[Painbearer]

Any update?

[picollo]

I'm very interested in ideas that were discussed abuot missing ToB content. Anyone has archives mentioned in first post(with discussions from older forum)? Or maybe anyone remember those discusions, and could describe some details about list in first post?

[Chao stik]

Sarevok's remorse for Tamoko and Yoshimo

As I recall in you could talk Tamoko out of fighting you, I was wondering if that would come into play here

[Bex]

Canonically, Tamoko ends up dead, whether you fought her or not. I suspect that any reference to it would be one of those things where whatever the PC might be able to say on the subject becomes your truth (unless you're allowed to lie, if it would make a difference... which could also be neat).

[Loremaster -Guest]

Any progress?

[Kulyok]

Everything that's been done is inside the mod right now. I haven't heard of anyone working on more, except for Almateria in her SHS mod, but I know very little.
If you(anyone) is interested about anything that's not been included yet, you can also develop it yourself and either release it as a standalone mod, or include into UB.

[Almateria]

Well, let's go one by one.

-Sarevok's remorse for Tamoko and Yoshimo
-Mazzy's redemption of Korgan
-The Cold Mistress in Saradush
-The return of Yoshimo (not likely...)
-Saemon disguising party as monks
-More obvious clue for WK
-Bounty hunters
-Melissan turning your friends
-Illasera's return
-The yellow dragon and his eggs
-Extended item descriptions
-Cespenar's Flask

I marked what UB as slashed, ARP as bolded and what's already been done in other mods in italics, namely Korgan's Redemption and Ascension, I think.
Now, what's left is the return of Yoshimo, which is completely baseless conjecture, there's not a shred of evidence of it ever being planned.
Cespenar's flask doesn't make sense, since we can move to the Pocket Plane whenever.
The yellow dragon has also no evidence of what was supposed to happen or even at least where it was supposed to happen.

So hey, thread solved!

[Felipe]

I'll post here since it's the best place and i didnt see other threads about it.

Did beamdog release the design docs of throne of bhaal? Is there anyone working on this?

[Angel]

Did beamdog release the design docs of throne of bhaal? Is there anyone working on this?

Hi, I'm the current custodian for Unfinished Business (although if anyone else wants the job, please let me know asap).

As far as I know, no documentation was released at this point.  However, work on the EE versions did uncover a whole bunch of dummied out and broken banters, some of which are fully voiced.  CamDawg made me aware of these and they are now part of Restored Dialogs (per v27).

I have currently no plans for new restorations.  I did extend the Restored Items component a bit; it now back-ports a restoration that is standard in BG2EE to vanilla BG2 (more imported items in Chateau Irenicus), and adds one missing item I uncovered on my own; a third journal written by Irenicus in Spellhold.

[Felipe]

As far as I know, no documentation was released at this point.  However, work on the EE versions did uncover a whole bunch of dummied out and broken banters, some of which are fully voiced.  CamDawg made me aware of these and they are now part of Restored Dialogs (per v27).

Hi, it's good to know something was found and restored, no modder ever asked beamdog's guys if they could have the design docs?

I have currently no plans for new restorations.  I did extend the Restored Items component a bit; it now back-ports a restoration that is standard in BG2EE to vanilla BG2 (more imported items in Chateau Irenicus), and adds one missing item I uncovered on my own; a third journal written by Irenicus in Spellhold.

Nice you added new stuff, waiting for more. No word about those things reported by icelus in the 1st post? I mean, he even found a file with those changes.

[Angel]

Nice you added new stuff, waiting for mofre. - no word about those things reported by icelus in the 1st post? I mean, he even found a file with those changes.

As Almateria already noted, most of it was already done by UB, Almateria's restorations, or other mods.  (I'd also recommend taking a look at SimDing0's Quest Pack, DavidW's Wheels of Prophecy and Lava's Yoshimo's Remorse.)  Of what is left, most notably the yellow dragon eggs, there is just very little clue about what the actual intend was.  The item name links it to Abazigal's lair, but that's about all there is.  And UB is about restoring cut content, not adding completely new stuff.  It uses existing resources as much as possible.  And besides, I'm a lousy story writer. :-)

I am considering adding a few more of the BG1 items that are in the game but not used in BG2 here and there (most notably The Practical Defense as that is my favorite BG1 armor for my paladin), and I am vaguely pondering adding a new component to restore cut spells, at least the ones for which I found existing icons.  (Those would be Animal Friendship, Circle of Protection and Cure Blind/Deaf for clerics, and Protection Circle, Fog Cloud, Spell Invulnerability and Sandform for wizards.)  However, I don't quite enjoy working on this old code, so it's not a high priority for me unless I find the time and will do do another complete rewrite.