http://forums.forgottenwars.net/index.php?...ay;threadid=900Reads as such:
The Missing Haer'Dalis Quests
Date: Sunday, 30 September 2001, at 6:03 a.m.
You see, when we got to the cutting stage during BG2's development, there were a number of plots that had to be cut...either they weren't working or just hadn't been written yet. Most of these actually were sub-quests tied to the NPC's.
I know Haer'Dalis got hard-hit...he had two plots cut. One was almost done: Haer'Dalis gets arrested for the murder of Rayic Gethras (whose house is still in the game) and thrown in prison. The player either has to break him out, let him rot, or prove his innocence. That one was all written up, too...but it had some major bugs so off it went. There was also another plot where the group kept getting summoned by a wizard (via a Summoning spell) because Haer'Dalis was in the group. Being a planar being and the wizard somehow knowing his True Name, the group was bound to do as the wizard wished (which involved fighting something). After the group is summoned twice and then returned to whence they came, Haer'Dalis gets angry and decides to track down this anonymous wizard. Edwin, Mazzy, Keldorn and Viconia are also other NPC's I can remember suffering from the cut.
Now this is all well and good...and should you want more details on the Haer'Dalis plots I would be happy to provide them. The one NPC plot that I really miss, however, is attached to an NPC who ended up with no plots at all: Minsc.
"Where O where has my little Boo gone?
areas needed: one small store, preferably with cages and animals (a pen with rats would be cool) but any store will do.
the story:
The first time Minsc enters the Docks district, start a timer. At some point afterwards (preferably when somewhere other than the Docks), Minsc will suddenly blurt out in horror that he can't find Boo. He's gone, just gone, and the more Minsc talks the more hysterical he becomes. Depending on who is in the party, the dialogue could be pretty funny.
Minsc: "You! It is you, little man, who has taken my Boo away! I have seen how your beady eyes stare at him with longing!"
Jan: "What can I say? I was hungry."
Minsc: "So the terrible gnome admits his guilt!"
Jan: "Oh, no no no. I didn't take the poor guy, Minscy. Although now I wish I had. That's quite the shade of purple you have, there."
Minsc: "It is you, dwarf! I know of you and your eeeeeevil ways! Return my Boo at once or justice shall be planted firmly on your teeny skull!"
Korgan: "Hmph. Are ye sure ye just didn't roll over the wee vermin in yer sleep, ye blasted oaf?"
Minsc: "Vile lies! Vile, terrible...and with disturbing imagery, too...lies!"
Minsc: "It was you, actor! You have taken my Boo!"
Haer'Dalis: "That's quite an imagination you have, my angry titmouse. What would I do with your little companion?"
Minsc: "Minsc knows! You cannot lie! Minsc knows of your lurid ways!"
Haer'Dalis: "Hmmm...was I talking in my sleep again?"
Minsc: "It was you, ! All this time you have been envying Minsc of his rapport with great Boo! You wish the title of Great Hero all for yourself!"
PC: "You have *got* to be kidding."
Minsc: "Minsc *never* jokes about Boo! Weasels, maybe! Boo, NEVER!"
OR
Minsc: "It was you, ! All this time you have been envying Minsc of his rapport with great Boo! You wish the title of Great Hero all for yourself!"
PC: "Yes, yes, it was me all along. Listen to my gleeful laughter."
Minsc: "Oh, tragedy is me! Overcome by the treachery of my most faithful friend! Tales shall be told of this dark day in years to come! Plays shall be made of it, acted in badly and I shall turn over in my grave at the horror!"
ANYWAY...the player has the option of cutting Minsc loose or promising to look for Boo. Minsc will give it some time, but he will remind the player occasionally. After a while he will leave on his own, swearing to undertake a great quest to recover faithful Boo. If the player kicks him out during this time, he will do the same thing.
If questioned, Minsc will remember that he last had Boo when the party was in the Docks. (Only trouble here is that all those Boo 'squeaks' were added into Minsc's VO...we never asked for them, but there they are. One could script Minsc not to speak his normal VO for the interim, but I don't know if you'd want to go through the trouble.) Minsc will beg the party to go there. The party doesn't have to, but SO LONG AS MINSC HAS NO BOO he is quite debilitated...he has a serious penalty to his ThAC0, his AC and his Strength (cast it on him as a spell).
As soon as the party returns to the Docks, spawn in a new NPC (Billy, young boy) somewhere in the docks. Minsc will init dialogue saying "Someone must know...someone must have seen! We must track down Boo's trail even if we must inspect every hamster dropping in this great city!" (Nalia interject: "Uhhh...Minsc, I don't think that's a hamster dropping...")
When Minsc sees Billy, he will cry out "You! Minsc remembers you! You were looking at Boo, little boy! You know!!" Billy will display a little 'uh-oh!' over his head and disappear into the Copper Coronet.
If the player enters the Coronet, Billy will be inside...along with a bunch of thugs. Billy will cry 'that's the that was so mean to me!' (the PC never gets a break) and the lead thug ('Martin') will demand in a threatening tone that the PC explain what all this is about.
The PC can either slaughter away or talk to Martin. The PC can say that Billy stole something from Minsc without saying what...in which case Martin will demand the truth from Billy. When Billy mentions he stole Minsc's 'rat', all the men will laugh. If the PC tells the truth right off the bat, they all laugh anyway. Minsc will go haywire.
Here a charismatic PC can smooth things over and get Martin to be reasonable, saying that nobody wants Minsc to go ballistic. If the PC has a high enough charisma Martin will demand that Martin say what happened to Boo. The PC can also choose to bribe Martin into doing this. Otherwise, Martin thinks Minsc is a sissy for having a hamster and the PC even sissier for asking for the hamster back. "If it's a rat ye want, I'll send Billy into the bloody alley. Just take a sec', it will!" Minsc will challenge Martin to a battle of fisticuffs in the arena. The PC can choose to intervene and fight, instead. Either way, the battle works like Mazzy's duel...and once Martin gets down to half his HP's, he will beg off and demand that Billy tell what he knows.
Whether Billy has been told by Martin to spill the beans or Martin and everyone else is dead, he will say that he sold Boo to a 'collector' he knows by the name of Swoosh. He offers to lead the party there (Minsc will interject and automatically agree).
Transport the party to the new store. Swoosh is there, a halfling of no little eccentricity who believes that all animals are much smarter than people realize. After being accosted by Minsc initially, his attitude wins Swoosh over. Swoosh would *never* have bought Boo if he'd known he was someone's beloved companion. He also wouldn't have sold him...
(insert hysterics by Minsc)
Now, depending on how long you want to make this sub-plot, this can go one of two ways. The short version skips the next part and Swoosh says he sold Boo to the daughter of Rayic Gethras. The longer version has Swoosh telling the story about a druid from Trademeet named Perth who came in the other day and was talking (yes, talking) to the animals and seemed fascinated by Boo and bought him. Swoosh can give directions to Trademeet, but doesn't know where the druid grove is (the party might...or they might never have been there and this will open up the Trademeet plot).
Alternatively, a shorter version could also include the Trademeet section (in which case Perth still has Boo) and skip Rayic Gethras altogether.
Leaving the door of the store will bring the party immediately to the world map. Note while this is all going on that Rayic Gethras should not be 'at home' (come to think of it, I'm not sure he ever is in the released version).
Anyway, when the party goes to Trademeet, there are two druids that have been accosted. One is Cernd, as per normal, but the other is Perth...who has been fearfully hiding out in the Waukeenar church and won't come out (the Temple Superior has given him sanctuary).
If the party goes to the church, they only find the Temple Superior there. They can ask him to go and retrieve the frightened Perth, but he will only agree to Minsc's pitiful pleading (Minsc must be present in the group). Perth knows nothing about the grove's troubles...he was just returning there from being abroad when he encountered all this. But he does have some interesting things to say about Boo...how remarkably intelligent Boo is and how strangely knowledgable Boo seemed to be (Minsc will puff up proudly at this). He was so impressed with Boo he even went ahead and cast a spell on him (more on this later). Unfortunately...Perth doesn't have Boo any longer. When he was running from the crowd, he stopped a carriage and tried to ask the man within (Rayic Gethras) for a ride...offering the man's whiny daughter Boo as a present to make him more agreeable. When Rayic saw the mob coming, he summarily dumped Perth off to flee on his own.
So...now spawn in Rayic Gethras and his daughter (Lily, maybe) at his home in Amkethran (which district is it in? Government, I think.) When the player approaches his home, have two noblewomen standing outside who initiate a cut-scene, declaring at how solid Lord Gethras's judgements have been, as of late. Such an improvement. Why, some people have been talking about naming Lord Gethras as the new Master of Laws in the city!
Going inside, the party can easily find out from either the pouty Lily or from Rayic, himself, that Lily doesn't have Boo anymore. Daddy took him. And while Rayic is not very forthcoming, it's obvious where his recent advice has been coming from. "That's absurd!", he'll say. But he won't want to give up the hamster, either.
The player can threaten Boo out of him...which will make him spluster and call on his guards (plus reinforcements) to 'take out the trash'. If the player is really high level, though, he fearfully hands Boo over...but otherwise they can take it off his body (and suffer serious rep loss). The other option is to threaten to expose Rayic, telling everyone where his 'new advice' is coming from. A charismatic PC could pull this off...or having another noble in the group (Nalia or Keldorn, for example) would lend this threat credence. The PC could also offer to buy Boo back, but Rayic would require a pretty penny.
Either way, Minsc has his Boo back. Oh, joyous day! All his stats are returned...plus maybe something extra, as discussed below.
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Now...the discussion on exactly what would be done with Boo was what caused this plot to be put off until 'later' in the first place.
We all agreed that the druid would have enspelled Boo to live longer and be far more durable. None of us liked considering what a hamster's lifespan might actually be and, indeed, whether this was even the first 'Boo' that Minsc has ever owned (denial is a wonderful thing). It would be a cool way to negate that problem...Boo lives as long as Minsc does.
The trouble was that most of us thought that Minsc should receive some kind of reward for going through this sub-plot. Boo should give Minsc some extra abilities or do something extra. Luke, Minsc's writer, has always been the most adamant one that Boo is just an ordinary hamster. He doesn't really go for the eyes and, for God's sake, he is NOT actually a miniature Giant Space Hamster.
OK, we could accept the not being a miniature Giant Space Hamster thing, but Luke was also opposed to Boo being anything other than an ordinary hamster ever. As Minsc's writer (and also the one who would have written this plot), one has to consider what he thinks, of course (especially with James being ambivalent about the whole thing). But there had to be SOME reward...which is where talks broke down.
Our ideas? Boo's natural intelligence has been heightened (Minsc scoffs at this, of course, saying a miniature Giant Space Hamster wouldn't need such a thing..."Boy, you fooled him, Boo!") and his newfound 'advice' gives Minsc a permanent bonus to his ThAC0 and AC.
Alternatively, Boo could now be 'useable' in combat...when his button is selected, you hear some hamster squeaks and Boo's 'advice' gives Minsc a temporary bonus to ThAC0 and AC, as well as making him immune to Backstab for the duration (that extra pair of eyes helps).
Of course, some said that if the player was going to have to go through the whole long quest to recover Boo, all while having Minsc debilitated, he had better god-damn-well now really go for the eyes. Besides the normal advice bonuses, Boo's ability is a 'spell' effect. Casting it on a nearby creature makes Minsc say his line ("Go for the eyes, Boo...!") and a second later the nearby creature is hit for 1 HP of damage. He also suffers from Blindness for 3 rounds and Confusion for 3 (during those three rounds he also suffers an extra 1 HP of damage again on the 2nd and 3rd round). MR is by-passed (it's not magic), although maybe a save applies. Boo's icon will disappear for the moment but he will 'find his way back' after 6 rounds.
Or...maybe not. I always thought it was a cool story.
David Gaider
Design, Bioware corp.
I forgot to put in one thing.
A short-cut, if you will, for the evil players who want to be really malicious.
In Smoosh's store, early on in the dialogue between him and Minsc, the PC had the option of whispering to Smoosh to give him a hamster...ANY hamster...so long as it at least sort of looked like Boo.
Smoosh would do so, saying "Oh, my mistake...I guess that was another hamster I sold. Ahhh...here is your Boo, sir."
Minsc, of course, would be quite suspicious. "Ehhhh...this is not looking like Boo. Why is his hair so grey? Why does he seek to flee off of Minsc's hand?"
If the PC has a decent intelligence, he can counter Minsc's objections with seemingly reasonable explanations.
PC: "His hair is grey because he's been frightened to be without you, Minsc."
Minsc: "Well, yeeeesssss, but why does he run so?"
PC: "He's still scared. He will calm down eventually."
Minsc: "But he seems so big. Boo was never so big..."
PC: "Smoosh probably feeds him more than you do. Plus he hasn't had the exercise of combat."
Minsc: "(CHARNAME) speaks sense, maybe. I am sorry to be doubting you so, Boo."
There's also the option of the high charisma PC...
PC: "I believe it's Boo, Minsc. Are you doubting my intelligence?"
Minsc: "Welllll, noooo, but..."
PC: "So you're saying that you don't trust me, then. After all this time..."
Minsc: "No, Minsc trusts his heroic friend (CHARNAME) just fine, but..."
PC: "So what's the problem? You have Boo back. Aren't you happy?"
Minsc: "Er, yeeesss. Yes, Minsc is just being selfish. I am sorry, Boo."
Certain NPC's (Keldorn, Mazzy, Nalia to name a few) would probably interject and ruin this plan at the beginning. And if the PC isn't intelligent or charismatic enough, Minsc gets mad and refuses to believe the hamster is Boo and storms off (permanently).
But otherwise, he ends up believing the lie just fine. His stats are restored and the quest is over. No bonuses, naturally, but at least the player gets the satisfaction of being completely evil...
David Gaider
Design, Bioware corp.
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> Oh lordie, if you shared even a tenth of those cut quests, we'd be
> drooling all over ourselves. I still think wistfully of the 'minor
> villians' quest you told us about, where we'd run into a group made up of
> people like Isaea Roenall, Saerk's son, etc. I think that would have been
> a hoot. And poor Valygar losing the Suna Seni interaction. Keldorn had
> more? And Mazzy? Ooooh, I'd love to hear those.
Oh yeah...I almost forgot about the whole Suna Seni thing. Yeah, Valygar got hit hard with the cuts, too. Keldorn ended up with only his family plot, and Mazzy with the Pala Poisoned plot (although I did manage to add back in Gorf the Squisher later). Originally Keldorn had a big plot involving his duties with the Order (put aside after we decided that the Order would be the Stronghold for a Paladin character...and we couldn't spend the time on deciding how they would cross over). I forget what Mazzy had...I'd have to look it up.
Personally, I think taking out the whole 'minor villain' bottle-neck battle was kind of a mistake. But whatever...that was before the whole Spellhold idea came up, which was also pretty good.
> The Boo quest was wonderful! I always thought it was a shame that Minsc
> never had a quest, considering what a stand-out character he is. Hmmm,
> that just made a thought pop into my head. I realize that ToB is meant to
> be far more linear than SoA, but a quest for Sarevok would be interesting
> as well. Now there is a man with a past ripe for coming back to haunt him.
A Sarevok quest? Yeah, I would have liked to see Sarevok confronted with the idea that not only was he responsible for Tamoko's death (and delve more into that), but Yoshimo's as well (since Yoshimo came to this land looking for his sister after losing contact). Even a small quest to honor their deaths or something would have been cool.
Did I ever mention that we were THIS close to bringing Yoshimo back to life (sort of) in ToB? Actually, he would have been undead, kinda...but Ilmater would have restored him to semi-life to repay his debt of guilt for betraying the PC (if that had happened...and, of course, if Yoshimo's heart had been surrendered to Ilmater). People would have gotten their full thief back (with some cool new abilities), and he would strike a tragic pose as someone who was waiting to die again...but wanted to die in peace.
I thought it was a cool story, anyway. But we just ended up deciding that our time was better spent elsewhere.
David Gaider
Design, Bioware corp.
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> Sounds like a great quest! Minsc should have a quest all his own. I'm a
> bit curious about Gethras though, since he's the wizard Edwin wants the PC
> to kill. Does this mean this quest will only be available before Edwin
> joins the party? Or was it supposed to be another NPC altogether?
Oops!
That's right...Rayic Gethras is the mage Edwin wants you to kill. It's not him, then...I just got the names mixed up. There's a wealthy home in either the Bridge District or the Government District that belongs to a man who doesn't come up in the game anywhere. He has a servant that says 'he's not home' and that's about it.
Shoot. Now I can't remember his name. Grrrr.
David Gaider
Design, Bioware corp.
