Shazzellim Quest (from UB)

[Gay Lord]

I have an idea about Shazellim regarding something that bothered me.

The description says that the Red Wizards made it to slay Harpers.  The item is given the ability to instantly kill, the most powerful ability a weapon with Purpose could have in 2E.  Pehaps to limit this, Shazellim's Purpose is to slay Bards, a pretty small group.  Now, while Bards may be the most common class amongst the Harpers, they are certainly not the only class, nor necessarily even the bulk of the organization (look at Elminster, Khelban, 7 sisters, etc., heck, even Khalid and Jaheira).

In any case, as far as BG2 goes, ARE there any Bard opponents in the game?  The only Bard you can pick up is Haer'dalis, and he's from another plane.  What's more, even if there are Bards, there's no sign or clue letting you know when you're gonna meet one.  Some of the Harpers you deal with might be Bards, but there's no way for the gamer to tell, and thus whatever "coolness" the blade might have are lost.

What I propose, if it's possible, is to make the sword much more useful in all the Harper battles by having it's ability work against any Harper, not just Bards.  This would help explain why everyone's so quick to blame Jaheira and call her evil (nobody else in your party is going to wield a scimitar, are they?).

I don't know anything about programming, so I don't know if you can just attach a flag of some sort to all the Harper characters and let the sword work against them.  If not, I thought you could tie the flag to an item, and what better item than the Harper necklace that Jaheira wonders at.  This way, whenever an npc is killed and they have a necklace in their items, then the gamer knows that they were a Harper and thus vulnerable to Shazellim.

I thought that it would make the blade more useful, give lots of room for extra dialogue all over the place, explain the animosity towards Jaheira from later Harpers, and actually let Jaheira kill something for once ("yay, my kill score went up from 0 to 4!")

It's supposed to be an anti-harper blade, so it would be useful in all the harper battles, but can be replaced later since it's otherwise only a +1 weapon.

[Andyr]

There are very few bardic opponents in the game, which I think is a shame.

In fact, offhand I can only think of Silke (and she was in BG1, not BG2).

I don't think that altering the sword is in the scope of this mod.

It might be nice to have someone have a quest based on it, though. But I'd disagree that Bard is the most common class for a Harper: I'd suggest there's a large number of many classes (rangers and wizards/sorcerers spring to mind from the novels).

[SimDing0™]

It might be nice to have someone have a quest based on it, though.

Wassup.

[Andyr]

If you want to split the thread you have the powers.

[Barren]

The only bard opponent I can think of is Meronia.

[Gay Lord]

I thought Silke was a mage, not a bard.  I dunno, I guess her mage avatar and staff +1 made me think that.  Her assistant, Garrick?, was a bard though.

I don't remember Meronia.

In any case, programming wise, is it possible to mark all the Harpers as vulnerable to Shazzellim?

[Barren]

I don't think so... In fact, this might very well have been the original intent of the weapon, then they had to change it to slay only bards, and finally realized it sucked and removed it.

[SimDing0™]

Mark all harpers with a specific.

[Andyr]

Silke was a bard, yeah.

Sim: You going to do this for a Quest Pack/Tweak Pack, then?

[SimDing0™]

What am I doing again? Making Shazzellim have a bonus against Harpers? Yeh, I'll probably do that (if anybody can list all the harpers in the game, that'd be cool), although I don't really have any ideas for a quest to base around it.

[discharger12]

I thought Silke was a mage, not a bard.  I dunno, I guess her mage avatar and staff +1 made me think that.  Her

Definently looked like a bard to me. Unless Tutu changes that. I don't think I've completely played through with tutu.

[Andyr]

She is a bard.

[SixOfSpades]

My plan to bring it back into the game was centered on making Montaron a ressurectable and recruitable NPC--his quests involve working for the Zhentarim again, and one of his first tasks is to plant Shazellim on Jaheira (whether or not she's in the party), thus causing all sorts of intra-Harper nastiness (which plays off the whole Galvarey debacle nicely, of course), causing endless fun and amusement for the Zhentarim--not to mention making them feel a whole lot better about the loss of a Necromancy laboratory.

[Andyr]

My plan to bring it back into the game was centered on making Montaron a ressurectable and recruitable NPC--his quests involve working for the Zhentarim again, and one of his first tasks is to plant Shazellim on Jaheira (whether or not she's in the party), thus causing all sorts of intra-Harper nastiness (which plays off the whole Galvarey debacle nicely, of course), causing endless fun and amusement for the Zhentarim--not to mention making them feel a whole lot better about the loss of a Necromancy laboratory.

I swear you read my mind sometimes. Though in my vision, Xzar would be made survivable as in Quest Pack or ressurectable.

[SimDing0™]

Okay, well, um... as usual, I'm not really inclined to go about making a whole new NPC. Somebody else who's up to the task is more than welcome to take over, though.

As for Shazzelim slaying Harpers (unless they save with a -4 penalty), does anybody else have any thoughts on whether this might make the quests involving harpers a little dull?

[Andyr]

Well...

There's not many Harpers in the game and the fights aren't that hard.

As for Elminster, you don't need to worry about him since I'm pretty sure he is immune to attacks from metal weapons anyway (with a permanent Greater Ironguard spell).

So, I don't think it would be much of a problem.

[the bigg]

NI search on BP + 134 lines weidu.log:

Searched for: Class - bard
Number of hits: 41
File: BHNALLA.CRE  Name: Stormherald Nallabir  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: CBSIRRUS.CRE  Name: Sirrus Melandor: Mayor of Soubar - Sirrus Melandor  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: CBSMSOUB.CRE  Name: Sirrus Melandor: Mayor of Soubar - Sirrus Melandor  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: D2FUE.CRE  Name: Fuernebol  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: DELTHY.CRE  Name: Delthyr  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: DOCKMEET.CRE  Name: Rylock  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: DOPFUE.CRE  Name: Fuernebol  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: DOPTHI01.CRE  Name: Fuernebol  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: FORTHE.CRE  Name: Forthel August  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: GARRICK.CRE  Name: Garrick  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: HAER10.CRE  Name: Haer'Dalis  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: HAER11.CRE  Name: Haer'Dalis  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: HAER13.CRE  Name: Haer'Dalis  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: HAER15.CRE  Name: Haer'Dalis  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: HAER19.CRE  Name: Haer'Dalis  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: HAJANOS.CRE  Name: Janos  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: IVANNE.CRE  Name: Ivanne  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: JADERMIN.CRE  Name: Dermin Courtierdale  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: JAMERONI.CRE  Name: Meronia  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: JANOS.CRE  Name: Janos  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: KETO08.CRE  Name: Keto  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: KETO10.CRE  Name: Keto  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: KETO12.CRE  Name: Keto  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: LOVEONE6.CRE  Name: Darriel  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: MERINIA.CRE  Name: Meronia  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: MERONIA.CRE  Name: Meronia  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: PBHUNT01.CRE  Name: Aawill  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: PGPENNY.CRE  Name: Penny Madrigal  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: PGTEWES.CRE  Name: Tewes  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: PPNALJ.CRE  Name: Naljier Skal  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: PPNALJ2.CRE  Name: Naljier Skal  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: RAELIS.CRE  Name: Raelis Shai  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: RITEND.CRE  Name: Ender, Ritual Captain  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: RYLOCK.CRE  Name: Rylock  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: SALVANAS.CRE  Name: Salvanas  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: SILKE.CRE  Name: Silke  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: TB#MPRI1.CRE  Name: Royalty We  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: TB#MPRIL.CRE  Name: Mike Prolla  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: TOBBAN01.CRE  Name: Sharik Nefal  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: TRSKIN02.CRE  Name: Tiris  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5
File: TRTAVP05.CRE  Name: Alenina  Attribute: Class=BARD - 5

Thus, it appears it will help somewhat in some Harper fights, against drizzt, then (mods) against the Tactic's Ritual (but Ender is always invisible, and weak anyways) and against Mike Prolla (but he has an almost permanent PFMW).
Basically, Shazzelim will come into play in exactly 1 difficult fight, if ever (Drizzt), and some random cakewalk fights.

[Andyr]

Drizzt and co are not Harpers, and neither are most of the other Bards...

[the bigg]

Drizzt and co are not Harpers, and neither are most of the other Bards...

Yeah, but 90% of those that aren't Harpers aren't either going to be attacked, are BG1-related or are too-easy-to-mention fights, so it's not clear that their class holds some meaning...

[Andyr]

My point is, if you want the weapon to target Harpers I think that targetting the Bard class is probably not a very good way of going about it.

[Jerrit]

Not surprising that there aren't many bard enemies.  Unless they're on the run from their disgruntled critics, bards are not exactly the most antagonistic of creatures.  Fighters pick fights, mages pick fights, bards watch the fights and write about them.   

[SimDing0™]

For QP, I've changed it to slay Harpers rather than bards, and implemented a minor quest for Jaheira revolving around it.

[jester]

That sounds very useful. Now we need even more Harpers to send to an untimely end.

[the bigg]

For QP, I've changed it to slay Harpers rather than bards, and implemented a minor quest for Jaheira revolving around it.

If you did use the SPECIFIC field to mark Harpers, I'm pretty sure this would cause incompatibilities with BP scripting, so it would be better to make the Shazzelim tweak a separate component. It'll look odd if everybody in-game says it kills Harpers and it doesn't, but probably better than causing possible inconsistencies with all BP players.

[SimDing0™]

I suspect that everything working 100% flawlessly is not a top priority for BP players. (Besides which, the Harper component is generally the one that's going to work worst with BP in any case.)