Ust Natha Shortcut

[icelus]

[14:02] Ghreyfain: I don't remember playing through the underdark ever being this boring before.
[14:02] icelus1: The Underdark needs an overhaul.
[14:03] Ghreyfain: Yeah, there's something about it that just doesn't feel right.
[14:03] Ghreyfain: Everywhere else seems real, but not it.  It's just... there.
[14:03] icelus1: It should be made bigger and more foreboding.
[14:04] Ghreyfain: I dunno about bigger.  It's already really long.
[14:04] Ghreyfain: I guess I just find the absurdity of drow society boring.
...
[14:05] Ghreyfain: With the UD, it's all a bunch of side-questish quests, but they're required.
...
[14:05] icelus1: Underdark-Be-Gone.
...
[14:05] Ghreyfain: Actually, no, I think what would be good is a way to find out where the eggs are stored.
[14:06] Ghreyfain: You know, talk to a person in the tavern, drop a few coins, and then voila.
[14:06] icelus1: Tell Sim.  New QP component, maybe.
[14:06] Ghreyfain: So you can break into the temple without either using meta-game knowledge, or being forced to aid Ardulace and Phaere on their interminably boring errands.
[14:06] Ghreyfain: Nah, I'm not going to waste anyone's energy on making it better.
[14:06] Ghreyfain: It's just that I think I've found out what *would* make it better.
[14:07] icelus1: Fine.  I'll post the log. 
[14:07] Ghreyfain: Heh, fair enough.
[14:07] Ghreyfain: But you're foiled, because PPG is down.
[14:07] * icelus1 copies and pastes to NOTEPAD.

[Murdane]

Are you serious?

I don't think a shortcut is a bad idea, at all. 

[icelus]

Of course I'm serious. 

It was Ghrey's idea, however.  I'm just the ruthless person who copied/pasted a private PM conversation for all the world to see. 

[Andyr]

I am hoping that one of the first Lands of Intrigue components to get coded will be an Expanded Underdark.

[Hendryk]

Nice idea; I've been CLUAing in Adalon's eggs for a couple of years now because the UD is so tedious.  However, I don't think you've examined your idea from the bartender's pov.  Who is the PC to the bartender to be worth such information, no matter the price.  Even if the PC has completed both fighting pits, it would seem a stretch.  Also, what does the bartender going to do next with his new-found wealth?  He couldn't stay in Ust Natha with it.  All that money would be a sure pointer to him as the informant.  And if he plans to escape, where could he escape to?  Rogue drow have a very poor life expectancy.

No, what any sane drow would do in the circs would be to lie to the party about where the eggs are then tip off the nearest handmaiden about what the party asked for.  Leading to a game over sort of confrontation against all the drow in town.  That way, even if the party takes the sensible precaution of silencing the bartender immediately, they will, if they follow instructions, raid the wrong place and raise the town against them. 

Now the bartender could be a secret follower of Eilistraea but, even if Adalon coaches them on how to approach such Good drow, it wouldn't be easy explaining how the party is supposed to recognize the bartender, and no one else, as the right person to try the secret handshake on.

[Ghreyfain]

I was thinking more along the lines of the PC overhearing rumours and making pointed inquiries, then piecing them together to figure out where the eggs are.

"I heard Ardulace is planning something big.  She's been going in and out of the temple an awful lot lately."

"House Ardulace sure has been skulking about a lot, recently.  Haven't seen many of them in here in days, and those that do come in are always tight-lipped."

"Whatever's going on in the temple, it's not normal.  Sacrifices are one thing, but you'd think a hive of wasps has been stirred up in there with how frantic the handmaidens have been scurrying to and fro."

Or... yeah.  Not that I'm going anywhere with this, as evidenced by the log there.

[SixOfSpades]

Personally, I'm fine with Ust Natha as is, except that they seem to have an even more ridiculously severe code of law than Human cities: In Athkatla, you can be legally executed for pickpocketing, but Ust Natha extends that even to things like jaywalking, making small mistakes in grammar, or forgetting to shave. Really makes you wonder how they ever became feared, since they seem to spend all their time killing each other for wearing white shoes after Labor Day.

[Ghreyfain]

Personally, I'm fine with Ust Natha as is, except that they seem to have an even more ridiculously severe code of law than Human cities: In Athkatla, you can be legally executed for pickpocketing, but Ust Natha extends that even to things like jaywalking, making small mistakes in grammar, or forgetting to shave. Really makes you wonder how they ever became feared, since they seem to spend all their time killing each other for wearing white shoes after Labor Day.

Yeah.  Clay feet or what?

That's part of what I was talking about when I said "[14:04] Ghreyfain: I guess I just find the absurdity of drow society boring."

I mean, what idiot kills one of their sons for killing a slave?  I was led to believe that drow, like most elves, didn't have kids all that often.  Then again, that might not be a D&D thing, but a Tolkien thing.

[NiGHTMARE]

Na, some of the matron mothers can have literally dozens of kids.

[hlidskialf]

It's an interesting idea, as I too find the underdark... lame. (Indeed, drow society becomes more than a little tiresome after a bit.) A thought occurred to me that if the bartender idea didn't wash with the majority of folk, that the bartender could be used to find out a way to contact Jarlaxal, who would indeed be the kind of fellow that would know about the eggs and be willing to part with the info for cash. (ie. Just a variation on the "transport to Jarlaxle's pocketplane office" already in the game.) So it'd be like:

Rumour summation:
- Jarlaxal is the one to speak to if you need info.

Bartender summation:
- I can arrange a meeting with a contact for Jarlaxal. Come back tomorrow I'll have the info.
- Okay, be [Here] at 0200hrs. Make sure you have

• amount of coin/etc... or he won't even talk to you.

Visaj(sp?) in the alley behind the arcade:
- You have the money? Good. Now click your heels together three times and say "There's no place like home."

Jarlaxal in his office:
- Right, payment up front. Thank you, the eggs are located in the temple in the vault. Better hurry, and you might want to dispappear afterwards.


So, corny as hell, and a little longer than Ghrey's straight Barkeep idea, but I like the fact that it's all PC-driven. There are times in the game, especially the underdark, where it gets tiring of being led around by the nose. This would belay that somewhat IMO.

[NiGHTMARE]

Heh, if I were changing around the Jarlaxle bit, I'd change it to fit in with the more recent events in the novels .  Jarlaxle has given up control of Bregan D'aerthe to his former second-in-command, and gone off to explore the surface with Artemis Entreri .

[Andyr]

I tried finding out exact timings of things; it does seem at the time of BGII Jarlaxle is no longer in command.

Though perhaps that's just what he wants you to think.

[jester]

How would the barkeep trust you enough to make the contact? Another errand this time to save his pet?

[hlidskialf]

How would the barkeep trust you enough to make the contact? Another errand this time to save his pet?

Generally such trust is bought for coin. Mercenaries need to have some way of getting contracts, paying people a kickback to pass such information along is a time-honored tradition of many cultures. 

[Kai of CandleKeep]

... you could always add a single new NPC to the tavern, a drow from a rival House perhaps, who would be more than willing to sell you some House Depsana secrets for a price....

Seems the drow enjoy selling each other out and plotting against each other anyway, so adding a "shortcut" version should not be too hard to integrate.  I, for one, would be grateful for it! 

[Ghreyfain]

Ah, House Despana.  That's it.  I knew I got it wrong.

And I think you guys are taking the "bribe a bartender" thing a bit far here.  If it won't work, it won't work.  I was thinking that PC finds out about the eggs by accident.  Not their accident, mind.  The accident of the drow who're spreading rumours.  Of course, they'd only just be rumours unless you knew a dragon had had her eggs stolen, and the drow were planning something huge on the surface.  The PC knows both of those things.

So, if 1 + 2 = eggs, the PC can figure things out.

1) House Despana has focused their attention on the temple of Lolth.
2) Irenicus has stolen the eggs to bargain with the drow.  Or does the PC know this?  At times I have trouble distinguishing from what is meta-game knowledge and what isn't.

J'oe Sc'hmo'e Drow, however, wouldn't be able to figure it out.  He'd just think it's odd that there are fewer soldiers around Ust Natha, and that Ardulace and co. are being all secretive.

[Kai of CandleKeep]

I always thought it was odd that you can ask the tavern patrons questions about House Despana and silver dragons and such things, but none of it is actually pertinent.  What I mean is, if you ask enough questions they *do* hint that House Despana is "up to something", but you can't actually use this information to figure out what's going on... 

Also, the 3 duergar at the very beginning of the Underdark (the one who has a store, and the guy who tells you about the imprisoned mage) mention "the 2 creepy surfacers" but that information also leads nowhere.  It always irritated me that the journal entry that this particular dialogue option adds never gets erased.

Maybe a little bit of clever coding could fix all of these otherwise pointless dialogue options...

[Reverendratbastard]

I am hoping that one of the first Lands of Intrigue components to get coded will be an Expanded Underdark.

  definitely in your camp on that one.  (being a fellow indirect-subject of her majesty doesn't hurt, of course. )
  in particular, the awe and anticipation i felt the first time i went through the gates of ust natha was washed away after the whirlwind tour that wastes most of the already-truncated space (q-pak motherlode, sez i) and yields only two remotely satisfying jobs (illithid and eggs*)...  looking forward to trying out solaufein partly because of that deficiency.
 

I was led to believe that drow, like most elves, didn't have kids all that often.

Na, some of the matron mothers can have literally dozens of kids.

  yeah, when your matriarchy is dominated by a Demon/Spider Queen, i think you're liable to spawn at somewhat increased volumes...
 
 
 *coincidentally, my half-drow skald's favorite breakfast...
 
 
 Edit 1: forgot footnote.
 Edit 2: determined that "[small]" doesn't function as i expected it to.
 
 

[ED]

Bah, just have the silver dragon able to divine where her eggs are but give some lamer excuse as to why she can't get them herself.

[SimDing0™]

The path I'm gonna opt for, I think, is allowing you to pressure the storyteller in the Ust Natha tavern into explaining where the eggs would be if one of the houses is holding them. He'll then promptly go and set up an ambush, so when you turn up to steal the eggs, you're confronted by a High Priestess and the whole city turns hostile. (Yeh, he tells you the *real* location because while he's still a sneaky bastard who'll set you up, he's also clearly going a bit senile. Or something.)

[Zyraen]

I was actually working on the idea a bit, but not quite in a non-metagaming sense.

For a UnderDark-BeGone I have this list of items and stuff, that I compiled from a few areas, into a single .txt file, if you're interested in it.

Alternatively I was also thinking of a UD guide, where you have an AI script that allows you to teleport to just about any point in the Underdark instantly without having to walk. All the experience with none of the tedium itself, just right to the battle front, so to speak.

[SimDing0™]

I'm not really much of a fan of convenience mods allowing content to be skipped, so I'd be against including an outright Underdark-Be-Gone component. The QP addition will be a legitimate route and will fit sensibly into the game: it's simply another way to do things without resorting to metagaming, and as would be expected from a shorter route, you won't gain all the benefits you could by hanging around.

That said, I imagine a lot of people would appreciate an all-out Underdark-Be-Gone.

[NiGHTMARE]

Am I the only one who thinks the Underdark is one of the best sections of the game?

[SimDing0™]

No, I like it too-- I wouldn't be doing this of my own accord, but if Ghrey and Ice would appreciate it, then it's fair to call in a favour.

[Echon]

I also like it a lot and I wish there were more optional things to do down there.

-Echon