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Author Topic: Valen level-draining undead?  (Read 3621 times)

Avrom

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Valen level-draining undead?
« on: July 10, 2003, 12:32:22 PM »
Is this a bug?

Valen herself seems to be immune to level drain, which makes sense--she's a vampire, after all, and doesn't have any life-force (in the ususal sense) to drain. But she seems perfectly capable of draining the life from other undead, including other vamps.

It seems to me that all undead should be immune to Valen's level drain, plus probably any other creatures that aren't organically alive:
-Demons
-Planetars/Devas/Solars
-Golems
-Elementals
-I'm sure I'm forgetting a few

Maybe grant a few key bosses (Irenicus, Melissan, many Bhaalspawn) immunity to level drain as well? And tweak a few priest AIs to put negative plane protection in their repertoire? (Pre-Valen, it's an almost useless spell for an opponent to cast; now it makes a *lot* of sense.)

Maybe also move a few of the powerful anti-undead weapons (Runehammer, Daystar, Azuredge) so that some of them are in the hands of opponents, instead of chests.

This might help rebalance Valen without taking away some of her fundamental...er...vampiricism.
 
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T.G.Maestro

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Valen level-draining undead?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2003, 10:47:02 AM »
As far as I know, most undead creatures are immune to level drain (it is given to them by undroppable items they carry), but they aren't immune to the visual effects of that ability. That is what causes this small trouble. On the other hand, Golems and Elementals are NOt immune to it, which is truly a massive bug...
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Offline Lord Kain

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Re: Valen level-draining undead?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2004, 09:36:21 PM »
All undead are immune to level drain they exist off of the same energy that causes it. It be like a human lose a level after having cure light wounds cast on them.
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Now, at last, the masks had fallen away.  The strings of the puppets had become visible, and the hands of the prime mover exposed.  Most ironic of all was the last gift that Raziel had given me, more powerful than the sword that now held his soul, more acute even than the vision his sacrifice had accorded me - the first bitter taste of that terrible illusion:  Hope.

Offline belboz

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Re: Valen level-draining undead?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2005, 03:36:53 PM »
My guess is that this wasn't tested (the visual effects for undead, and the level draining at all for golems and outsiders) for precisely the same reason that enemy clerics never cast NPP (except as specifically added by the Valen mod): In the unmodded game, the only way for a bad guy to get level drained involves a wizard casting what is generally regarded as the most worthless 9th level spell, and then hitting him/her in melee combat. Not something that happens regularly, therefore, easy to slip through the QA cracks.

On the other hand, once Valen is added to the mix, it becomes a big deal. Her level drains are her main strength; having opponents improperly coded to react to level drain suddenly becomes a noticeable issue.
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Offline weimer

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Re: Valen level-draining undead?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2005, 12:05:43 AM »
Actually, it would be fairly easy to give all of those things immunity to level drain as part of the Valen mod. (Pre-Valen you could also use Blackrazor or have an evil cleric command a level-draining undead in SoA, but both of those were rare.)

Changing all the clerics so that they "cast" NPP would be tricky (but hackable). It would be easier to have all priests of level >= X start out with pro-undead (as per the scroll) or NPP or somesuch. I'll look into it. It would be interesting to have the "enemy" clerics actually Turn Undead.

Anyway, I encourage everyone to list all monsters or monster types (broad things like "golem" are fine) that should be immune to level drain. We can debate individual entries, but I'd like to see the big picture.

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Offline Lord Kain

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Re: Valen level-draining undead?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2005, 12:40:14 AM »
ah blackrazor one of the most powerful weapons in the entire game.
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Now, at last, the masks had fallen away.  The strings of the puppets had become visible, and the hands of the prime mover exposed.  Most ironic of all was the last gift that Raziel had given me, more powerful than the sword that now held his soul, more acute even than the vision his sacrifice had accorded me - the first bitter taste of that terrible illusion:  Hope.

Offline FluffigtDjur

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Re: Valen level-draining undead?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2005, 12:40:40 PM »
Don't you just love the way the demon says it? "A weapon called: BLACK-Raaaaaazor" ooh my neutral evil hands are shivering in delight.
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