Author Topic: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?  (Read 14360 times)

Offline SeanFan

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Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« on: December 15, 2004, 09:24:54 AM »
I've loved Paladins ever since I first read "The Deed of Paksenarrion", but have only played an Inquisitior in BGII. Given how many undead enemies there are in SOA and TOB, I thought the Undead Hunter might be a fun kit to use. If anyone has played this kit before, I'd appreciate any comments on whether you liked it, what the advantages and disadvantages are, etc.

Thanks!

Offline jester

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2004, 10:52:27 AM »
[some spoilers for people who have just opened the box for the first time]

I find paladins pretty overpowered (The inquisitor beats them all hands down though as he is a much better wizard slayer as the misnamed kit). There are a lot of undead in the game, but you do not really need someone dedicated to undead hunting. Minsc has vampires as racial enemies and maces as speciality. It is almost as lame and obvious as to have stakes lying around near a vampire hideout. :P Anomen is the second charcter who can deal with them just fine, so the class seems good at first though I found it redundant. So you get all the pros from paladins in general, but the cons are more or less dependant on your group and your playing style.

Refinements at FW changes the HLAs for each subclass so you might want to consider this to, if you use it. (http://forums.spellholdstudios.net/index.php?s=f41540549864956a2861f3a37503b9b2&showforum=116)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2005, 03:35:54 PM by jcompton »
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Offline Kish

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2004, 12:31:35 PM »
My first character was an Undead Hunter (a kitless paladin of Kelemvor in BG1, and an Undead Hunter of Kelemvor in BG2).

It was nice not to have to worry about level drain.  The first time I encountered a named vampire fighting Shadow Thieves, I just told my party to stay back while I beat up the vampire with the Sword of Chaos.
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Offline Murdane

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2004, 02:38:39 PM »
*nods*  Immunity to level drain right off the bat has got to be pretty darn useful.

Yeah, you don't *need* someone dedicated to fighting undead, but when you get right down to it you also don't *need* an Inquistitor, don't *need* an expert pickpocket, don't *need* a ranger who is good at fighting demons or dragons or trolls...

It's all about what you want, what character you want to play.

Offline SeanFan

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2004, 03:37:42 PM »
Thanks, guys. As I mentioned, I like Paladins anyway, and the idea of being immune to level drain and hold is very appealing, so I think I'll give it a try.

As for being overpowered, I'm experienced enough at this point that the unmodded game isn't too tough, but not exactly a power gamer either, so I don't mind tilting the odds in my favor a little. I find some of the WeiDu tactics mods to be a bit much, believe it or not!  ;)

Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2004, 06:48:05 PM »
I quite enjoyed my undead hunter, he knocked up Aerie and everything! The immune to level drain is nice.
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Offline Mongoose87

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2004, 06:28:59 PM »
My Paladins are ususally Undead Hunters because level drain supremely annoys me.

Offline neriana

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2004, 07:26:33 PM »
My first character was an Undead Hunter, but I never finished the game with her. I decided to start over with an Inquisitor, because mages were giving me more of a headache than undead. Still, the immunity to level drain is very nice.
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Offline Eral

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2004, 08:32:00 PM »
Yep, ringing endorsement of Immunity to Level Drain.

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Offline jester

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2004, 09:18:07 PM »
I cannot remember, but aren't there items in the game that do this too?
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Offline Kish

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2004, 09:27:30 PM »
Exactly two in SoA, neither of which you can gain until Chapter Three.
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Offline Mongoose87

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2004, 10:25:44 PM »
And my highly impatient, irritatable teenagedness prevent me from waiting that long!

Offline jester

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2004, 06:07:07 AM »
And there are those spells people could use too. ;) I used Anomen last time and got level drained twice until I got said items. So as always it is personal preferences really.So you can be protected from chapter two on which is when you meet Gaelan. So fair to say from the start.

Did I mention that I usually shun paladins like the plague since Virtue always tells me how I suck at being LG? :D
« Last Edit: December 18, 2004, 06:16:18 AM by jester »
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Offline aernor

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2004, 04:36:36 PM »
In almost my first game of BG2 I used an undead hunter. Very effective, so much so I didn't use one again -- vampires become just too easy to kill. Not that they present much problem now.

The weapon I believe you want is +2 Azuredge, available from Bernard. A throwing ax that kills all undeas -2 or be destroyed. This is also ugradeable with illithium from Cromwell. The upgrade turns it into a +4 weapon, undead must save at -4, and it also protects you from level drain.

When thrown it gives a huge advantage against liches. For instance the "hole in the wall" lich.
Set the game to pause when enemy sighted. Enter lair, game  pauses, throw axe. Run!
Repeat until Lich is dead.

A similar tactic can be used elsewhere. Halt just outside the liche's lair, cast Farsight. Now target Lich. Your character will now run into the room and hurl is ax the instant he sees the lich, usually before any protection goes up. You have to be a bit careful with Gaax however, you must allow him to have his little speech or you'll never kill him.

It's also the best weapon to use against he infamous Gaax, being +4 it will kill him, and used as a throwing weapon you don't fry yourself on his fireshield. The unmodded Bodhi is easy to kill; I've killed her by accident in Spellhold!

Offline Kish

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2004, 06:56:01 PM »
The weapon I believe you want is +2 Azuredge, available from Bernard. A throwing ax that kills all undeas -2 or be destroyed. This is also ugradeable with illithium from Cromwell.
...if you have the Item Upgrade mod.
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Offline Murdane

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2004, 07:16:42 PM »
And there are those spells people could use too. ;)

True, but the Negative Plane Protection spell only lasts four rounds, and at early levels you won't have many spell slots (not that there aren't way to compensate, of course).

Offline neriana

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2004, 07:48:23 PM »
And there are those spells people could use too. ;)

True, but the Negative Plane Protection spell only lasts four rounds, and at early levels you won't have many spell slots (not that there aren't way to compensate, of course).

I always have plenty of spell slots. Further, if vampires can't hit you, they can't level drain you. There are also lots of restoration scrolls, and plenty of gold with which to buy them.

Edit: I thought something early in the game provided immunity to level drain, but turns out it's actually protection from evil. Oops.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2004, 07:57:44 PM by neriana »
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Offline Murdane

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2004, 11:10:23 PM »


I always have plenty of spell slots. Further, if vampires can't hit you, they can't level drain you. There are also lots of restoration scrolls, and plenty of gold with which to buy them.

Edit: I thought something early in the game provided immunity to level drain, but turns out it's actually protection from evil. Oops.

Restoration is wonderful, but it also always instantly fatigues the priest who casts it.  Even if you can live the mechanical detriments of making them fight on, it seems wrong in some (roleplaying) ways.  The priest apparently acquires several days worth of fatigue; would it really be fair to make them battle in such a condition?

Also, there are other level 4 spells that you may decide you need more than NPP, at least in the beginning when you don't have THAT many slots (how much is "plenty" anyway, esp. in the beginning?).  Remember that each NPP spell effects only one person, and wears off after 4 rounds (underpowered IMO).
« Last Edit: December 18, 2004, 11:14:02 PM by Murdane »

Offline neriana

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2004, 02:02:21 PM »

Restoration is wonderful, but it also always instantly fatigues the priest who casts it.  Even if you can live the mechanical detriments of making them fight on, it seems wrong in some (roleplaying) ways.  The priest apparently acquires several days worth of fatigue; would it really be fair to make them battle in such a condition?
Since it only takes one night to go away, and since the alternative is death for someone, perfectly "fair". I rest pretty often anyway. Clerics are supposed to heal people -- that's kind of what they do. If a cleric refused to cast Restoration on someone, I'd boot them out of my party. Luckily, it's a computer game, so they do what I tell them.

Quote
Also, there are other level 4 spells that you may decide you need more than NPP, at least in the beginning when you don't have THAT many slots (how much is "plenty" anyway, esp. in the beginning?).  Remember that each NPP spell effects only one person, and wears off after 4 rounds (underpowered IMO).
When you have 3 people who can cast the spell, slots are not a problem. Combine that with other spells that make your frontline fighters much harder to hit (like Stoneskin), damage spells, summoning spells... you don't fight more than a couple vampires early on. By the time they swarm and tough ones come around, you should be quite powerful.

Anyway, maybe they're harder for people who don't take tons of casters. But they aren't for me. I'd much rather have all the Inquisitor abilities than immunity to level drain, which I find easier to compensate for. Not that you need either. The game is completely winnable with any party combination.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2004, 02:16:45 PM »
I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure level drain works through stoneskin.
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2004, 03:41:04 PM »
Yeh, it works on hit rather than damage. Pretty sure. :)

I usually get my lone tank to attack and distract such creatures - I tend to play parties of alignments opposed to Paladins, and it doesn't bother me if my fighter is level drained for a while.
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Offline Kish

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2004, 03:45:29 PM »
I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure level drain works through stoneskin.
It does--and it can only be cast on the caster, which is only going to be a frontline fighter if you're playing a fighter/wizard personally.  The only spells I can think of that actually make someone significantly harder to hit, and thus significantly harder to level drain, are wizard/sorcerer spells which can target the caster only--Blur, the Mantle series.

I think what Murdane means about it not being fair to make clerics cast Restoration and then make them fight on is that, unless you want to earn that "slave-driver" name Jaheira keeps calling you in BG1 (which isn't a problem for Andyr, of course...), one of your party members becoming fatigued rather obligates you to find somewhere to rest right after the battle...and having to rest that often gets irritating.
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Offline Echon

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2004, 03:52:49 PM »
I think what Murdane means about it not being fair to make clerics cast Restoration and then make them fight on is that, unless you want to earn that "slave-driver" name Jaheira keeps calling you in BG1 (which isn't a problem for Andyr, of course...), one of your party members becoming fatigued rather obligates you to find somewhere to rest right after the battle...and having to rest that often gets irritating.

Perhaps it is time for me to introduce the Dispel Fatigue mod, the BG2 mod that features the 1st-level priest spell Dispel Fatigue. :)

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Offline neriana

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2004, 03:54:49 PM »
Meh, I was thinking of IWD2's Stoneskin, and generally being confused.

But in any case, I don't care if someone is bitching about being tired when we're in the crypt. There are more important things going on.
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Offline SeanFan

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Re: Has anyone played an Undead Hunter?
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2004, 05:39:29 PM »
Meh, I was thinking of IWD2's Stoneskin, and generally being confused.

But in any case, I don't care if someone is bitching about being tired when we're in the crypt. There are more important things going on.

Whoa, this thread has really taken off in my absence, maybe that should tell me something!  :)

IMO, it's not the bitching about being fatigued that's the problem, but that a character that is fatigued has penalties to their rolls, and consequently, just like in real life, doesn't fight as well and is more likely to be disabled or killed during combat. In any case, I don't know what you gain by doing the Restoration during combat since the LD doesn't effect fighting skills as much as it does spell-casting, and you certainly can't have them rest and rememorize the spells during combat.

Sounds like most others here do what I do; have them finish the fight level-drained, then Restore them and let them rest after the looting is done.

 

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