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Author Topic: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?  (Read 23666 times)

Offline Andyr

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2004, 12:46:58 PM »
Unfortunately, Mystra banned time travel after the Fall of Netheril. ;)
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Offline Caedwyr

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #76 on: November 06, 2004, 01:38:13 PM »
I guess it'll have to be in the planescape setting then.  Find Aluaundo the petitioner and beat some sense into him after the fact. :)
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #77 on: November 06, 2004, 07:16:29 PM »
Heheheh. :D
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Offline jester

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #78 on: November 06, 2004, 08:54:20 PM »
Perhaps TNO is Alaundo and his major shortcoming was the botched Bhaal prophecy. :D
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Offline Caedwyr

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #79 on: November 07, 2004, 01:49:48 AM »
Hmm, now I can see why TNO attempted to become immortal in an effort to atone for what he had done.
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #80 on: November 07, 2004, 08:07:30 AM »
Suddenly it all makes sense...
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Offline belboz

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #81 on: December 14, 2004, 05:58:42 PM »
Quote from: Ghreyfain on November 04, 2004, 02:22:08 PM
Quote from: Quitch on November 04, 2004, 03:48:48 AM
Quote from: Ashara on November 03, 2004, 12:08:15 PM
Er... nope. Not assumed. Got from Gorion: his lover, raped by Bhaal, died in childbed. A mighty long shot from 'Bhaal's priestess who wanted her child be sacrificed and killed by Gorion'. And yes, I know that one can make a convoluted 'tie-it-in for BioWARE' soap opera with PC's mother being both this and that, but it all boils down to one thing - w/o checking BG1 material ToB substituted a cliche for a worst cliche. If only that was the only downfall of ToB ;D

Hang on a second, Gorion writes a note and that must be the truth? Hah! Try and exercise a little imagination!

Gorion is the stereotypical wise, kind, gentle old man that takes in the orphan.  He's not lying.  Stereotypical wise, kind, gentle old men do not lie.

The only power greater than Semantics is Stereotypes, so ha to you all.

Meh. Who's a more stereotypical wise, kind, gentle (well, OK, sorta gentle) old man than Obi-wan-Kenobi?

I can imagine much the same deal here:

"This kid has just lost the man s/he thinks of as a father, and I must now tell them that they were sired by the Lord of Murder. Do I *really* want to tell them that their mother was his willing consort and wanted to sacrifice her child? Better to give them a sacred image, a pure figure destroyed by Bhaal, to avenge."

Just like "Darth Vader killed your father."

OK, so in truth, it was probably just sloppiness on the ToB team's part. But if it's so easy to make a story work, why not just make it work? Authorial intent is dead anyway ;-).
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Aristothenes

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #82 on: June 13, 2005, 01:13:20 PM »
I'm assuming James Ohlen/David Gaider did all of the writing.
And no-one was proofreading or checking for continuity.
Remember, it doesn't pay to spend double the time on the remaining 10% of the project (which includes such small details as a sensible plot!) Your market rivals may release a better game! Hurry hurry hurry...
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #83 on: June 13, 2005, 02:53:21 PM »
They had help from Kevin Martens, Michael Geist, Drew Karpyshyn, Andrew Nobbs, John Winski, and Luke Kristjanson...
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Offline Kuemper

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #84 on: June 13, 2005, 07:52:13 PM »
I'm probably opening a can of worms here (like I haven't been doing that for the past week :)), but has no one who has read the Alanduo prophesy wondered about the 'score of mortal progeny'?

Who's to say Bhaal didn't avatar himself on Toril earlier than 1358DR/Time of Troubles and impregnate a bunch of women? I assumed, as I'm sure others did, that the 'they' from the rest of the prophesy refered to the children born/conceived during ToT.  Maybe it refers to ALL of Bhaal's children. Saradush is supposedly a refuge for Bhaalspawn, yet Illasera and Yaga-Shura claim to have killed others of their father's blood.

A 'score' is equal to 20. Lesee, there's The Five, Sarevok, Imoen and Charname. Plus the three in the Marching Mts., Vikeig(sp) from Trademeet and the four others I found hanging out in Saradush. That's 19 I can comfirm myself. What did Illasera and Yaga-Shura kill? A simulacrum of a projected image of a mirror-imaged Bhaalspawn?

As for the original question: play Throne of Bhaal at least once. Jason got it right with going from boss fight to boss fight. I found the best part to be Cespenar, your Abyssal butler. 
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Aristothenes

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2005, 10:39:07 PM »
And we know what a splendid job Athans and Karpyshyn did on the novels.
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #86 on: June 13, 2005, 10:40:01 PM »
I think it says somewhere he was at work before the Time of Troubles. So yeah, he avatared himself and ran around casting impregnate on people.

Gah! I'd forgotten about the novels. They sucked mightily.
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #87 on: June 14, 2005, 06:31:36 AM »
Well he must have been going around fathering Bhaalspawn before the ToT, otherwise even by the time of ToB, none of his offspring would be more than 11 or 12 years old! :D Judging by the Bhaal has not just a half-dragon son, but that particular son has a son of his own, he must have started a considerable amount of time before the ToT.

If you read the Avatar trilogy, you'll see it's quite unlikely Bhaal fathered any offspring during the Time of Troubles.  He spent all his time either going around killing people, or turned into a statue (or something similar).
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Offline Kuemper

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #88 on: June 14, 2005, 07:19:13 AM »
Quote from: Kuemper on June 13, 2005, 07:52:13 PM

A 'score' is equal to 20. Lesee, there's The Five, Sarevok, Imoen and Charname. Plus the three in the Marching Mts., Vikeig(sp) from Trademeet and the four others I found hanging out in Saradush. That's 19 I can comfirm myself. What did Illasera and Yaga-Shura kill? A simulacrum of a projected image of a mirror-imaged Bhaalspawn?


Last night, I had a dream. A man on a flaming pie flew up to me and said, "A score is 25."

I shouted back, "You couldn't have told me this before I posted?!?

To which he shrugged, "Meh."

All this hassle because all I had in my head last night was "Fett's 'Vette" by MCChris. Damn you, Balgosa Windspire!!
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"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked them up."

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Offline SimDing0™

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #89 on: June 14, 2005, 10:20:58 AM »
A score can mean 20, yes, but in this case it probably means a large number.
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Offline Kuemper

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #90 on: June 14, 2005, 08:04:56 PM »
Makes me wonder who the Solar was working for. Or was she just hanging out in the Abyss with Cespenar eating cookies?
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The opinions expressed in the above post are those of Kuemper, unless specifically cited from other sources.

"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked them up."

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Offline Borsook

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #91 on: June 15, 2005, 09:07:50 AM »
A bit closer to the beginning of this topic, (so about common perception), I always wondered why some many people say - IWD series is hack'n'slash not a true RPG while at the same time they considered TOB an RPG (even if infirior to SOA)...

PS. And score not only can mean 20 but means 20. Apparently Kuemper is not a Tolkien fan  ;)
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #92 on: June 15, 2005, 09:36:24 AM »
"Score" has multiple meanings, including "lots" :).
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Offline SimDing0™

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #93 on: June 15, 2005, 10:15:06 AM »
I'm sure I said that.

[EDIT] Yeah, I did.
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #94 on: June 15, 2005, 11:46:00 AM »
Borsook's comment that "score" means 20 suggests he didn't spot that...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2005, 12:33:53 PM by NiGHTMARE »
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Offline Borsook

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #95 on: June 15, 2005, 11:53:25 AM »
 :-[
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The_Swordalizer

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #96 on: June 15, 2005, 12:08:03 PM »
"A score of mortal progeny" sounds more like a general statement of "he has lots of children" than a definite count to me. And I have to say - I have always assumed that Bhaal went around seeding his children for a fair old while before he died... I assume half dragons don't mature in 10 years, or have sons age 5! I know ToB has several faults, but I simply see this (with my modder hat on) as an opportunity to make things better! And who could live without Tab key, eh?

SoA was a roleplaying game. ToB is a "typical" computer game, with thinly disguised "levels" and "end of level bosses". Time for that ToB story-overhaul mod...
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Offline Kuemper

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Re: Throne of Bhaal Question-Why does it suck?
« Reply #97 on: June 15, 2005, 04:50:16 PM »
Hey guys! Give the chick with memory problems a break! What I originally posted was right, but doubts plagued me all night and I reposted, only to find myself appended and corrected.  :(  :-[

But yeah, it does suck the hind one. Just finished it an hour ago and what a letdown. I only played through again for a mod epilogue. And the cool weaponry - vorpal kicks @$$!
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The opinions expressed in the above post are those of Kuemper, unless specifically cited from other sources.

"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked them up."

Wanda Gerschwitz
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