Sendai as an ally... hmmm?

[Araushnee]

Well, I don't know why people assume everything is so plain and simple: the 5 are allies and you are their enemy. Well, I think each member of the 5 works primarily to reach their own goal, they aren't loving each other, just work together - sometimes reluctantly, despising others or thinking about them just as useful tools... And above all, each one thinks it is HE or SHE who deserves the best prize, others are co-workers, but rivals. They probably think about it: how to get rid of the rest not to divide the award. And as you know, drow not so rarely choose to kill an ally before the end of campaign (to catch this ally off-guard, unsuspicious) - and that's why Sendai wouldn't care much about the loyalty to the 5.

And then...

and besides someone strong needed to keep the five together so drow's keep their alliance to that person

...by that time you reach Sendai I think you have already shown the weakness and helplessness of the 5 against you.  And you proved you're strong enough. 

The game offers just too simple answers - some creatures have red circles, other green or blue. In the real life nobody is marked on his/her forehead "enemy" or "friend"...

[Quitch]

If Sendai considers herself greater than the other members of the five (only two of whom may be dead at this point), why exactly would you killing those two make her think of you as stronger than her?

[Araushnee]

If Sendai considers herself greater than the other members of the five (only two of whom may be dead at this point), why exactly would you killing those two make her think of you as stronger than her?

One possibility is confrontation - you duel Sendai and when she sees she can't win she yields to save her life. With her army taken down by one person, she somehow admires you (she says it before the battle). And without an army she needs a radical change of her plans to continue her struggle for power. Denying the fact and refusing the alliance brings her to certain death - so she has nothing to lose.

And killing "those two" of the five just questions the strength and stability of the five. About Sendai herself - you need to show her your reliable power. Similar to other NPCs in the party, whose trust or disapproval you can gain during adventures through your certain deeds.

[Da_venom]

this can go on forever t.t

even *IF*! sendai would choose to join u for het quest for power, then either your main charachter must have an intelligence of 1 a wisdom of 1 and possibly no brains...

you really want an ally that isn't trusthworthy? She could backstab u anytime just to get rid of u so she can get power!
she want's the power for herself so why join u?

besides..

the story would collapse
s
she join's u

she tells they were forged by mellissan to kill other bhaalspawn?
you can kill mellissan straight away?
what you think that mellissan would do? think she gonna let sendai join u?
there are problably a lot more reason for this situation NOT to work!
so buzz of with this stupid thread

[Kish]

there are problably a lot more reason for this situation NOT to work!
so buzz of with this stupid thread

I think we're all clear that you find the idea distasteful, Da_venom.  That's not a reason not to talk about it, however.  If you're not interested in the idea, don't post to a thread about it--don't demand other people stop posting.

[Da_venom]

sure thing mr.Kish 
then talk about it and never get anything done 

[Anko]

If you're not interested in the idea, don't post to a thread about it--don't demand other people stop posting.

You're absolutely right. There's freedom of speech, however some people just can't discuss with a slight dose of culture. Such quotes as:

so how the F*CK

so how in !^@*! name would a PC let someone of the five join him/her?

either your main charachter must have an intelligence of 1 a wisdom of 1 and possibly no brains...

so buzz of with this stupid thread

are maybe not clearly abusive, however somehow other people here can avoid them, even if they disagree.
Da_venom, by your language you give us an image who you are. If you think it is us who's stupid, just don't engage in conversation with us... Are you wasting your time or you're just getting pleasure annoying others?

[Araushnee]

And if Edwin, Viconia, Korgan, Xzar and others didn't betray you (well, Xzar maybe didn't have enough time to), it isn't certain Sendai would. She's not bound by geas like Yoshimo.

Or maybe Bodhi and Irenicus are trustworthy after all their schemes?

There are evil NPCs to join, and some untrustworthy too... Why are they in this game? Why there are people wanting to have them in their teams?

you really want an ally that isn't trusthworthy? She could backstab u anytime just to get rid of u so she can get power!

Why can you refuse Edwin having the Nether Scroll and he doesn't attack you? Other evil NPCs also say from time to time they dislike you and maybe they're going to kill you... But none does. Even insulting Viconia during romance makes her leave, but not attack you. Yoshimo isn't evil, and he proves to be untrustworthy. Safana too.

Besides, the game would be so boring, if there were only paladins around... 

[Da_venom]

just let evil characthers get the option to actually set u in a trap like yoshimo does hehe

besides the npc that are evil are hiding behind you

edwins join u so he is safer from the red wizards
viciona because she will be hunted by drow haters
korgan more or less same although he is kinda accepted
and sarevok is obsessed by the PC he want to see his progress how far he can come
jan is safe from the city guard

so all are more or less hiding and groveling in your arms

they got no real reason for power
sendai however has

[Araushnee]

besides the npc that are evil are hiding behind you

edwins join u so he is safer from the red wizards
viciona because she will be hunted by drow haters
korgan more or less same although he is kinda accepted

so all are more or less hiding and groveling in your arms

they got no real reason for power
sendai however has

Well, Edwin wants to be the greatest, most powerful mage.
He doesn't have any respect for you either.

Korgan doesn't need to hide behind your back. He's not particularly afraid of anybody.

Sendai's situation is similar to Viconia's - people hate them because they're drow, and drow treat them as exiles, saving no sympathy for them.

And just look at the endings of Korgan and Viconia. Viconia tries to start a new cultist of Shar group with her as a head priestess (although she doesn't succeed). Korgan goes to conquer the Underdark (probably for treasures and pleasure of fighting). So they're unquestionally both ambitious.

[Da_venom]

neither of your npc has a mind to be a god or be a demi god

they all want power yes but that's chaotic evil

Sendai really want's to be a god or demi god whatsoever

the npc just want one thing like getting power of one particular thing(the evil person's)
backstabbing isn't really up their mind

and Edwin has indeed respect for u
but he rather want's to be left alone
he doesn't think of u much but he does respect u
he has certain interest in u cause your a bhaalspawn

besides all evil npc want followers and descriped in their epilogue's

Sendai doesn't want followers at least not until she is a god
she only keeps her followers to she can gain status god faster

[Ivy2004]

Isn't it just the same - wanting to be a lich, a sect guru or a demi god? If the other NPC reached their "smaller" goals, they'll for sure switch their goal to something greater, more appropriate. Smaller ambitions mean only smaller forces and perspectives at the beginning. We meet BG2 NPCs at level around 10. Sendai's hit dice is 40, so no surprise she wants more.

[Da_venom]

and when u reach sendai don't u have around 40 dice as well?

besides sendai has no interest in you, at least no personal things

all npc however, do

[Prine]

This really isn't such an illogical idea, I don't know why you seem to think it is.

Whether because you've already killed three of the five, or because you actually beat her in single combat, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Sendai might acknowledge your power over her, and that you have the power to kill the remainder of the five.  Given a choice between death and a powerful weapon with a moral weakness to exploit I can't possibly imagine her choosing the former.

So let's see: if Abazigal is not dead, then Sendai uses you to off the remainder of the five so that she can arrange your death and collect her reward from Melissan alone.  If she can't find a way of killing you she can turn you against Melissan; she'll tell you that Melissan is a child of Bhaal and has used you to kill the five for her own ends, and plan an ambush with Melissan to finish you for good.  This gives her the option to side with whoever proves strongest in the final fight.  If you prove strong enough to defeat Melissan, better to side with you than face death.  (She'd end up being betrayed by Melissan if the PC lost, but she'd not have foreknowledge of this.)

If Abazigal is dead then Sendai probably already knows of Melissan's treachery against the five.  Obviously she has far less to lose in this scenario and would be that much more inclined to side with you.  The best she could hope for would be to use you to tip the favour in her advantage in the fight against Melissan, then kill you herself at some point afterwards.  Heck, if the PC is a short-lived race, Sendai could theoretically keep him occupied long enough for his own mortality to take him.  Either way she'd be the last one standing, so to speak.

Do all characters have to be stupid and two-dimensional?  Can't they have plots and schemes of their own?  If someone wants to develop this I'll sure as hell play it.  Anything for a villain with half a brain.  Obviously trusting Sendai is not a wise investment on the player's part, but the player may not realise this, and may in fact have a softer view of Drow and children of Bhaal in general from prior experiences.  Let the player decide whether to make shortsighted decisions, they might make for a more interesting game.  Or hell, let the players develop plans of their own; use Sendai to kill Abazigal and Balthazar, then betray her afterwards.  The player knows Sendai is weaker than the PC, so why not put her resources to use and then end her when convenient?

I think the only problem with this idea is that Sendai may simply not be that cunning, but I won't believe for a second that she'd die rather than yield to the PC given the choice.  "Though I fall, the others will ensure Bhaal is reborn!"  So what, if she's not alive to benefit from it?  That's the mind of a fanatic.

[Mollay]

If only you could meet Sendai earlier, for example in Ust Natha, know more about her than tiny dialogue and a battle...
Yeah, I know it's impossible, and you meet Sendai so late you'll never think about an expansion like Solaufein mode.
Oh, you'll say Sola's a do-gooder & worshipper of Eilistraee... So maybe it's soooo different....
But why the heck there have to be only a bunch of poor Drizzt carbon-copies around??? 
Drow, male, good, with scimitars... how cheap can it get?
Why there can't be around any true drow who isn't a Drizzt clone OR a brainless walking hit-me-to-gain-XP dummy???

I suppose Sendai had a hard life as a Bhaalspawn in a society where no deity besides Lolth is allowed to even be mentioned. However, this probably made her tough instead of making her cry over the unjustice in this world. Hey, did you ever think how it's possible that these disgusted-by-violence-good-Drizzt-alike drow survived? Not ending as a slave or a sacrifice on some altar?
It would be logical that if Sendai's still alive, she has to be extraordinary strong and smart.

Why in the end I have a feeling of a cheap "adventure" like "Go, kill, go, kill, kill, go further, kill da boss!"
It's all about dispatching by Sendai one and another horde, every a little bit stronger than the previous one.
Yeah, "nobody told her it's you who's coming"... Wait a sec, even getting rid of Yaga-Shura was more sophisticated. Did the programmers think only about nearing deadline? "People still had not to erase BG2 from their hard drives" it's written somewhere as the excuse. Look, how much time passed now... I know some players just storm through a game a throw it into a cupboard. But there are some games you want to return to.
I personally dislike the era of Neverwinter Nights... No big party, cheap 3D graphics (kids like that  ) - oh, well, Final Fantasy has multiple times better looks. And all cities looking the same... game divided into modules making it pretty linear... Items looking all the same (no artistic, beautiful elven/drow chainmails...) Boredom. 
Ah, BG2 is what makes me  about the time passed...

[NiGHTMARE]

Actually, the drow in the three cities in the Underdark below Tethyr don't worship Lloth.  75% of them worship Vhaerun, and 25% worship "darker gods still" (e.g. Ghaunadaur).

The Tethyrian drow cities aren't even matriarchal, unlike almost all others.  Holldaybim is egalatarian, while Dallnothax and Iskasshyoll are patriarchal.

[Mollay]

Oh well... It isn't anywhere stated Sendai's from here (i.e. Tethyr). The most powerful Bhaalspawns according to simple rules of probability wouldn't be all born in one place. See, your PC has made a long journey south from Candlekeep to Amkethran.

However, sorry for any false statements - I don't possess an Underdark manual (or how's it called), so I know a little about differences between drow in other regions. Surprisingly, when I searched the net, there are only few drow cities mentioned, all the time the same  (Menzoberranzan, Sshamath, Ched Nasad, etc.), I heve never come across the names you mention - if anybody knows a good resource, please contribute the info!

And what about Ust Natha? It's matriarchal in the game and it's near to Amn and Tethyr... Or is it undersea? Well, I heard the rumor Ust Natha was modified from what it's written about it in handbook/manual, however, as I said I can't check it... 

And besides, in Vhaeraun-clergy-ruled city Sendai would lead no easy life either.

[Isobel]

Here's another curiosity I spotted: why Sendai uses in the battle "summon swarm" or "creeping doom"? These are druidic spells, and she's a priestess after all.  The second thing is she uses at the beginning of the battle "shield of Archont" (or what it's called...), and she doesn't have this spell memorized  (can be checked by any editor).
Maybe some patches, like "tougher Sendai" remove these strange behavior, but I didn't check that out...

Anyone has any clues? 

[Mollay]

Ha, I finally found an intersting drow NPC! I mean Yasraena mod.

However, I like Viconia's story more - if all drow joining you are good, there will be so many "exceptions" from a rule that you'll forget about drow traits... You'll only think "red circle = evil drow, any other = good drow". Viconia is intersting, because she's evil and it takes a loong time to change her and many efforts... It's interesting, because it's no easy.

And if you like, you may just have an evil party. Unfortunately, in basic BG2 there are so few evil NPC (they can't even fill all spaces in party). It was better in BG1 (where's Sharteel...  )

But Yasraena mod showed me that drow as a members of party are not only my desire! 

[fallen demon]

Here's another curiosity I spotted: why Sendai uses in the battle "summon swarm" or "creeping doom"? These are druidic spells, and she's a priestess after all.  The second thing is she uses at the beginning of the battle "shield of Archont" (or what it's called...), and she doesn't have this spell memorized  (can be checked by any editor).
Maybe some patches, like "tougher Sendai" remove these strange behavior, but I didn't check that out...

Anyone has any clues? 

Don't know about the spells, but many enemies in bgII cast spells via script that aren't in their spellbook.

[Mollay]

Don't know about the spells, but many enemies in bgII cast spells via script that aren't in their spellbook.

Don't you think it's a piece of !@#$%^&* cheating?!

Of course it is, you say - some of those cheats were elliminated in Ascension and instead of it we have better AI, which is a great improvement, but still there's A LOT to be done in this subject...
Well, the game can be harder or easier, but it should be at least fair. When I checked that Sendai truly drops different armor and flail she used (obviously she keeps the better one...) I was  !!! What on earth could make a dead corpse prevent me from looting it to the last panties? (Maybe becoming an un-dead  but nothing like this happens  ). Sometimes I wonder how cheap it can get... 

[ED]

To keep it balanced.  If she was going to be scripted to cast something, why would it matter whether or not she had it memorized?  It'll be cast.  Period. 

Second off, her knowing druidic spells could be pretty cool.  If she knows them than that gives her an edge on the whole "Not just another cleric" thing.  She *is* a bhaalspawn, she should get some nifty powers too!

I think it's a great idea.  I never really understood why she didn't plead for mercy or some such the first time I got to her.  Drow will do anything to win, I chalked it up to her expecting none.  But a drow would still try...

About the fancy flail and stuff, just edit the .itm file a little. Make it her own unique starting equipment. 

Who I really wanted to join me, though, was Toop the Brave.   

[Da_venom]

i want noober as part member

everytime when an enemy is wanting to cast spells noober will ask why do you cast that?(spell interupted)
do you find me annoying(spell disrupted)

so the creature would never attack nor cast spells

[Araushnee]

everytime when an enemy is wanting to cast spells noober will ask why do you cast that?(spell interupted)
do you find me annoying(spell disrupted)

The answer is: Yup. **SMASH** (I find the hammer very useful.) /Noober, as every commoner is torn to pieces. Resurrection is impossible. Search a new party member./

[Ivy2005]

To keep it balanced.  If she was going to be scripted to cast something, why would it matter whether or not she had it memorized?  It'll be cast.  Period. 

Well, this is the way to keep it unbalanced. When nobody cares, how many spells can be memorized by a creature, we have an enemy with dozens of scripts attached - who cares about the level, intelligence or wisdom of the creature? Well, the PC has to care about his/hers. Isn't it unfair? Isn't it leading stright to absurd - for example, a flea lvl. 1, str. 1, con. 1, int. 2 with 200HP and "Power Word: Kill".
PC: Ouch, a flea bit me! I'll kill it!
Sorry, it counterattacked and killed you...
That's why I consider that a cheap strategy. What for we need all the statistics? I thought it SHOULD matter.

Second off, her knowing druidic spells could be pretty cool.  If she knows them than that gives her an edge on the whole "Not just another cleric" thing.  She *is* a bhaalspawn, she should get some nifty powers too!

Alright, why not. When you pick and elf, you can't make him/her a cleric/mage, which Sendai and Aerie are. A customized creature is nothing bad. But still, I would be more satisfied, if all the spells are used according to rules (for example, no more times that the creature has slots for it). I just hoped the enemies would be made precisely and wisely (and not only NPC's).

I think it's a great idea.  I never really understood why she didn't plead for mercy or some such the first time I got to her.  Drow will do anything to win, I chalked it up to her expecting none.  But a drow would still try...

Agreed. I think it's just the matter of lack of time/effort - nobody worked on creature & its equipment, nor cared about it's character/story. 

About the fancy flail and stuff, just edit the .itm file a little. Make it her own unique starting equipment. 

Well, it would be a nice piece of work, if an enemy had such a weapon as "Yoshimo's Katana". You can steal it, you can loot it, but probably after Yoshimo's death you'll never use it. But probably creators of the game thought: "Who cares?" and tried to made it easier to write/code for them.
Or, there can be such pre-requisites as with "mace of the handmaiden" (or sth - Viconia's Yochlol quest reward). There are so many, that no one except Viconia can use the mace (class, race & character pre-requisites).