Author Topic: Slightly off topic but...  (Read 6104 times)

Offline kendrick

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Slightly off topic but...
« on: May 26, 2004, 08:13:47 PM »
I am curious if anyone knows what exactly the original arrangement where the main character takes over Nalia's keep entails (this is the normal non-romance version).  As far as I know, at the end of all your quests, the main char becomes the "Lord" of the keep for essentially the rest of his life, by Nalia's wishes.

So how does Nalia fit into all of this (assuming no romance)?  All we are led to understand is that she has not come of age to inherit the keep, and by all other accounts (though not through the given storyline), her eventual husband inherits the keep.  Unless I missed something in the original storyline, there is no reference to any Amnish law that says the husband of a female heir inherits her property, but this is inferred elsewhere in other message boards. 

So my question is, if she gets married and her husband gets control of the keep (according to supposed Amnish law), then what happens to the Lordship status of the main character?  Is it revoked and Nalia's husband becomes the new Lord of the keep?  Just something to think about.
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Offline mcruz

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Re: Slightly off topic but...
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2004, 12:47:13 AM »
Well if you do the De'Arnise keep as your stronghold it does seem that the keep becomes the PC's property for life at leat at the end of BGII SoA.......I think the major domo says something like they're all grateful for what the PC has done and so forth

But if you read Nalia's epilogue at the end of TOB you get the impression that the PC is no longer the lord of the keep or lost it somehow (even if the PC did the fighter stronghold quest) and then Nalia gets it back

Initially Nalia had the right to revoke the title from the PC and she says so herself but after the PC gets accepted by the subjects as their rightful lord i'm not too sure......I think that particular law pertaining to Nalia's husband would only work prior to PC become lord of the keep (thus the invasion on the keep by the Roenalls since the proposed marriage with Isaea falls apart)
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Offline True Sheol

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Re: Slightly off topic but...
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2004, 10:29:05 AM »
     The implication of the Roenal storyline is that Isaea would have gained control over her estate if they were married.  By retaining the PC as the Lord, Nalia was seeking to break the arranged marriage without possibly losing control of the estate through some sort of legal suit by the Roenal family.  Apparently Amnish convention, if not law, requires that a Lord be a warrior, hence the rejection of a non-fighter character.  That would be why she wouldn't have the right to rule her own estate.  It is probably part of the separation of government and magery.  The Cowled Wizards have exclusive control of wizardry but they are forbidden from ruling.  I would have to dig up some old Forgotten Realms material, but I'm pretty sure that Nalia's assertion of control over her family estate in the epilogue would have required that she have some sort of fighter-type proxy to rule due to the forbidding of mages as rulers.

Offline kendrick

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Re: Slightly off topic but...
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2004, 01:13:41 PM »
I dont quite understand the TOB ending myself.  It says, roughly, "after her association with 'main character name', Nalia spent a year making contacts and traveling".  Then she supposedly comes back and finds Isaea Roenall has taken over the keep, and brings him to justice singlehandedly.  If the main character has taken over lordship of the keep, then wouldn't Nalia and the main character both be involved in taking the keep back and ruling over it afterwards?

I guess because Nalia was not meant to have a romance with the main character, only one standard ending for her was made, one that could fit if the main character was not a fighter type and could not take over the keep, but this ending does NOT fit if he actually took over lordship of the keep.

Well this is just another example of how many errors and inconsistencies are in the game.  I did both Arnel's Nalia romance as well as the Viconia romance, btw.  I couldnt bring myself to do Jaheira's romance or Aerie's b/c frankly one is too bossy and annoying and the other is too whiny and annoying.  Viconia's romance is the most poignant and emotionally involved romance as well as the most well written, although you have to be patient and realize that she is evil at the start and acts accordingly.  I recommend everyone try it out, but realize that it does not really come to its conclusion until TOB, when she changes her alignment due to her romance.   Arnel's Nalia romance is ok, if you like an aggressive Nalia who practically jumps on the PC (player character) at some point in a not very well progressed relationship, although granted they are already in a marriage of convenience at that point.  I can write a brief synopsis of it if anyone wants.
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Offline Basarin

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Re: Slightly off topic but...
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2004, 08:06:00 PM »
Fun as Arnel's Nalia romance mod was, it eventually lost my interest and college work took priority. Haven't played a mod since  :(

A synopsis would be nice, actually.

And I'm in agreement that the original storypath for Nalia didn't mesh very well if the PC did manage to take control over the keep. You killed the Lord Roenall and sent his forces packing, and what's more, as far as anyone's concerned, you're the owner. Why Isea had it, maybe it was a missed point on the storywriter's part? *shrug*

Offline jcompton

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Re: Slightly off topic but...
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2004, 08:51:14 PM »
Some of the epilogues displayed serious quantities of GROOP, yes. I myself was quite miffed that Nalia's Keep seemed to suffer the exact same fate regardless of how well we'd run the keep.
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Offline kendrick

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Re: Slightly off topic but...
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2004, 03:46:39 PM »
I will post a summary of Arnel's mod, but only if Jcompton has no objections.  Its alot longer than I'd thought it would be.  Just to be on the safe side, I emailed Arnel to see if it was ok, but his email address is no longer valid and his website looks to be an abandoned project.  It also stated he has no problems with anyone using material from his mod. 
We are not put on this earth to see through one another, but to see one another through

Offline jcompton

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Re: Slightly off topic but...
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2004, 03:48:00 PM »
I don't see any reason not to post it, go right ahead.
Cespenar says, "Kelsey and friends be at the Pocket Plane? Ohhh yesssss!" http://www.pocketplane.net

Offline kendrick

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Re: Slightly off topic but...
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2004, 04:04:53 PM »
Ok, here's a summary of Arnel's Nalia romance.  This is full of spoilers so do NOT read if you do not want to know how it goes.  It will probably ruin your Arnel mod experience if you read this, so be forewarned.

Realize that it doesnt really start until you do both the keep invasion quest and then finish off the slavers in both the Copper Coronet and the slaver's ship, and give the slave girl in the troll pens 100 gp to get home.  For most of the dialogues there is some unique music you never heard before.  Obviously, there is no voice over of any of the new lines and Arnel's romance does NOT carry over to TOB. His website has not been updated in nearly 2 years and there are no indications that a TOB patch will be made.  His website is a German server, fyi.

I've read complaints on other boards is that its heavy on Nalia flouting her helping the poor idea, to the point of being revolutionary and silly, but if you read most of the dialogues in the non-modded version, she is REALLY like that.  The dialogues in the mod follow this idea nicely where she is consulting and getting ideas from the PC (player character) about how to accomplish this best, and the conclusion reached is to do it on a large scale, politically.  Her eventual goal of joining the Council of Six to accomplish this is discussed and also follows her TOB ending pretty well.  There are some spelling errors as well, but they were minor. 

There is one dialogue after the keep invasion where you get to say a line or two to comfort Nalia over her father's death, but its pretty short.  When Nalia is called to her father's funeral, she meets up with Isaea, and then decides that her original plan is not fooling anyone, b/c of Isaea's reaction.  She asks the PC to agree to a marriage of convenience.  The whole party is whisked back to Nalia's keep where they are married in a small ceremony with Minsc as the best man, and which includes the party, the major domo, a priest of Tyr, and about 3 other keep workers.  Its kinda cute when the priest asks everyone "should their ways run together?", and everyone goes "Aye".  The wedding is notable for a "blessing" from Tyr.

During the dinner celebration, Isaea storms into the dinner hall with his Amnish army guards and kidnaps Nalia, like her abduction in the un-modded version, and with the same rescue quest.  After her rescue, out of desperation, Nalia offers to consummate the marriage to put to rest any doubt that others have as to whether they are married or not.  I believe the only correct answer was to decline.

The other romance dialogues were pretty much what you would expect; the PC making nice dialogue choices and getting a nice response from Nalia, especially if you give her good advice and ideas to help her accomplish her goals.  Many dialogues are "helping the poor" related dialogues which helped to flesh out Nalia's views and that was fine.  There are also some dialogues where Nalia and the PC ask about each other's parents and how they influenced their lives.  I simply thought there werent nearly enough of these "getting to know you" type of dialogues, but that was my opinion. 

Arnel's mod also includes a side quest which involves a childhood love of Nalia named Joseph Armenthorp who is hiding out somewhere, and involving his traitorous ex-business partner living in Trademeet. Eventually Joseph gets ambushed after meeting the PC and Nalia, by his ex-partner's goons, and a dying Joseph asks you to look after Nalia.   

There is an attempt to link the Guarded Complex in the Temple district with Isaea, and Nalia suggests they go there to look for more evidence.  In the Guarded Complex, one of the goons you meet early admits Isaea's involvement with their organization and the keep invasion and you find your usual document implicating the Twisted Rune House. 

You can finally get evidence to put Isaea away in the Twisted Rune House in the Bridge district. After you deliver the final evidence showing Isaea's involvement in the keep invasion and slavery to  Inspector Brega, Isaea is summoned, admits involvement, and he is taken away.  At this point, out of frustration, Nalia offers to consummate the marriage to put to rest any doubt that others have as to whether they are married or not.  I believe the only way out of that was to decline.

Somehow he gets away again and shows up to challenge the main character to a duel. Its a trap however; as soon as he starts losing, some goons show up to try to kill the PC.  After the fight, the party chases him back to his Govt. district home, where another fight ensues with Isaea and 2 mages.  Isaea is subdued and taken to Brega again where he resists yet again and is killed for good by the Cowled wizards. Not long after this episode, after one or two dialogues, Nalia suddenly turns aggressive and wants to see what the PC looks like "under all his clothes" and you know what happens.

The rest of the mod is pretty much as Arnel suggests it is, involving Nalia's abduction by Bodhi and the PC having to restore Nalia, with a touching line after she is restored.  There are some other notable dialogues including an addition to the Tree-of-Life dialogue which involves ONE line from Nalia to the PC, before the party enters the final Tree area.  Except for those 2 situations and one or two others not mentioned before, Nalia says precious little romance-wise for the rest of SOA. 

Overall I thought this was a well done mod for the very short amount of time it was in development; I just wished it was a bit more developed, especially the romance dialogues.  I never really felt the PC or Nalia formed much of an romantic attachment for each other before they slept together.  I was impressed with the effort put forth on the childhood love subquest, but was unsure what purpose it served other than to give Nalia a little more background and also to give the PC a reason to take care of Nalia.
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Offline jcompton

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Re: Slightly off topic but...
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2004, 04:22:44 PM »
Its kinda cute when the priest asks everyone "should their ways run together?", and everyone goes "Aye".

Yes. This was a very nicely done bit.
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Offline Kanain

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Re: Slightly off topic but...
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2004, 11:28:02 AM »
Speaking of Arnel’s Nalia Romance…I never could play through the whole thing due to all the spelling errors and grammar problems in the mod.  But as I am anxiously JC’s Nalia Mod, I’ve recently gone back to trying to play it again just to “tide” myself over for now.  I just couldn’t deal with it.  Isaea’s name is consistently misspelled throughout the mod.  You’ll get the original Bioware parts where he is “Isaea” and then Arnell’s parts where he is magically now “Isea” (or something like that) and it just sucked me out of the game.  Call me picky if you must, but that’s how I feel.  It also bothers me that I cannot use the Balderdash Throne of Bhaal game text update with this mod because of the obvious dialog.tlk replacement involved with both.  So I decided to do something about it.

I’ve taken the aforementioned Balderdash Throne of Bhaal game text update dialog.tlk file and I’m manually adding, using NI, the Arnell Nalia dialog.tlk strings to it.  Not before, however, extracting the Arnell dialog.tlk file to a txt file and loading it into Word for a thorough spell check.  Then I went over each string manually and reworded a large percentage of the strings so they made more English sense.  I of course couldn’t change anything plot wise about the mod, and I didn't want to.  I just wanted to make it so I could play through it and try to keep my mind “in game”.  I did add a bit of "me" to it in a couple of places, but only because I was doing it for "me" to begin with.

The text correction is finished and I’m about 1/3 the way through adding the strings into the dialog.tlk file.  I don’t even know if it will work, but it seems like it will.  Both the original Bioware dialog.tlk and Baldurdash’s dialog.tlk end at string 74106.  That string reads “I must fall back.”  String 74106 says the same thing in Arnell’s dialog.tlk and strings 74107 – 75262 seem to be all Nalia romance stuff.  Anyway, if anyone is interested, and as long as JC doesn’t mind, I could post a link for the dialog.tlk file once I’m finished with it.    I’m sure that his Nalia mod is going to be 100% better than the Arnell Nalia…corrected English or not.  Just thought I’d offer in case anyone else wants to help ease their anticipation of JC’s mod as well.

Please note that I’m not trying to bash Arnell’s work.  He did great scripting work in this mod.  I understand that English is not his first language, but I’m the son of a newspaper reporter so proper English is a big deal to me.  Having said that, it also true that I am not perfect – there may be mistakes in my “corrections”.    ;D

In any event, I think I will be finished in the next day or two.  If it’s all good with JC, I will post a link so anyone who wants it can have at it….
« Last Edit: May 30, 2004, 11:30:23 AM by kerith_nyrond »
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Offline jcompton

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Re: Slightly off topic but...
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2004, 10:31:16 PM »
I don't mind you discussing it here, but frankly for the interests of your own sanity I'd recommend trying to do a proper WeiDU conversion of the thing before all that manual .tlk hacking... especially because it'll be easier to play.
Cespenar says, "Kelsey and friends be at the Pocket Plane? Ohhh yesssss!" http://www.pocketplane.net

Offline kendrick

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Minor correction to the synopsis
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2004, 10:28:16 PM »
Just noticed after proofreading.  Nalia only offers out of desperation to consummate the marriage right after being rescued from Isaea, and not after the Twisted Rune documents are found and Isaea admits involvement.  Was clicking and pasting and forgot to delete that line.
We are not put on this earth to see through one another, but to see one another through

 

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