Author Topic: Children of Bhaal  (Read 28526 times)

T.G.Maestro

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Children of Bhaal
« on: April 10, 2003, 01:55:53 PM »
I have a question Sorry, if this was already answered before, but somehow it keeps bothering me.
As I know, Bhaal planted his sseds into his "children" nearly at the same time (or at least at the Time of Troubles). Now, these children were born at the same time as well, right? This would be well and fine, if there were only humans. There are references in the game that you are the same age as Imoen, and parhaps Sarevok as well. BUT. In ToB there are very-very interesting children: a Fire Giant, a Drow, and most of all a Dragon! And they seem to be quite in an 'adult' stage. And here comes my problem. How is it possible, that these creatures were born at the same time and are the same age (around 25-30 or so?). To reach adulthood, a Yaga-Shura should be at least 100-150, Sendai around 500 and Abazigal...well maybe a few thousand years? :blink:  This stinks a bit. At least to me. Or am I missing something important?
Any comments on this one would be appreciated!
« Last Edit: April 10, 2003, 01:56:56 PM by T.G.Maestro »

Caedwyr

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2003, 02:20:46 PM »
Actually, I think its mentioned somewhere that Bhaal had quite a bit of advanced notice about his death, and so started his family well in advance of the Time of Troubles.

T.G.Maestro

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2003, 03:09:26 PM »
Well in advance? Heh, it was quite "well in advance" :lol: .. Man, Abazigal is at least 1000 years old! Had Bhaal the portfolio of 'Murder' since then?

T.G.Maestro

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2003, 03:10:49 PM »
And as I remember, it was during the Time of Troubles that Bhaal foresaw his death, not before that.

Caedwyr

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2003, 03:54:30 PM »
Abzagil may be younger since he is not pure dragon.

Tancred

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2003, 04:18:39 PM »
To quote the BG2 intro movie:

'You and Sarevok were a product of the Time of Troubles, a chaotic period when Gods were made flesh and forced to walk the earth.

One such deity forsaw his own death... and walked the land before the cataclysm. He left a score of mortal offspring intended to be the fuel for his rebirth. The god was Bhaal...'

If 'The cataclysm' (some confusion with Krynn there, heh) refers to the Time of Troubles, it does appear that Bhaal saw his death coming a mile away, realised there was no way out, and prepared well in advance. Shame he didn't foresee what would happen after his death, but... well, then there'd be no story!

Caedwyr

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2003, 04:34:59 PM »
Well, Melisan's little bit of trickery seems to have been missed in Bhaal's forseeing.

Kish

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2003, 03:03:06 AM »
Quote
There are references in the game that you are the same age as Imoen, and parhaps Sarevok as well.
Quite the contrary--Sarevok's diary talks about him seeing you for the first time when you were a child and he was a grown man.
Quote
Well in advance? Heh, it was quite "well in advance"  .. Man, Abazigal is at least 1000 years old! Had Bhaal the portfolio of 'Murder' since then?
Absolutely.  Bhaal was the Lord of Murder throughout most of recorded Faerun history.
Quote
And as I remember, it was during the Time of Troubles that Bhaal foresaw his death, not before that.
Tmk, the only bit of evidence for this is, "During the Time of Troubles did great Bhaal come and whisper in my ear," spoken by the ghost of Alianna.

It contradicts various other sources already quoted in this thread.  It also contradicts logic, as Bhaal could hardly create children invested with divine essence when he himself lacked access to his own divine essence.  But it comes down to which source you choose to believe.

adam_2112

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2003, 03:34:25 AM »
If bhaal got Alianna pregnant during the time of troubles then that might explain why during irenicus's ritual in spellhold the bhall spirit says " I should devour you, how do you stand. Wait I sense your soul, it has taken form to guide from within, you are strange amongst your kin!"


Bhaal also could not know of the time of troubles a 1000 years earlier because except for AO gods can only see a most a few tendays into the future so  the bhaal essence in Yaga-shura, sendai, and abazigal must have caused them to age at a rapid rate.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2003, 03:35:03 AM by adam_2112 »

Guest

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2003, 04:13:21 AM »
I'm afraid your all missing the point...it's not the exact quote but

'The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his wake shall come a score of his progeny' - Alaundo of Candlekeep...

Alaundo is the most famous of the future event guys in the Forgotten realms (and he's been dead for at least 1000 years, (I'm sure it's more than this) and his prophecies (sp) mostly all come true. This means Bhaal has had plenty of time to prepare a contingency plan for his passing.

adam_2112

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2003, 04:28:21 AM »
Yes bhaal would have heard of the prophecy but he did not start making children until a few decades before the time of troubles.

klaussner

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2003, 12:10:27 PM »
Hey, think if Abazigal was of the PC age:

"baby crawls to the pc, viciously tries to headbutt his knees"
-gets mauled by a critical +6 two-handed sword hit,
-transform into a dragonneau, about 1,20 meters high, that tries to breathe you but can hardly do something else than leer you meanfully.

   

Renegade ++RIP++

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2003, 10:21:17 AM »
besides, it could be that because of the divine intervention of bhaals soul"blood", they mature as rapidly as a normal human ,

with these I naturally mean the non human Bhaal offsprings

cheers

klaussner

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2003, 10:40:31 AM »
Yep, but Abazigal's son isn't supposed to have the Bhaal incense within him and he is still mature (approximatively 20 human years old, but still)

Kish

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2003, 12:08:49 PM »
Quote
Yep, but Abazigal's son isn't supposed to have the Bhaal incense within him
He isn't?  From his dialogue, I get the impression that that would certainly be news to him.

T.G.Maestro

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2003, 12:57:08 AM »
This way what is the case with the child of the protagonist and Viconia? (If you do not choose godhood)
Not much is known, but as I remember the epilogue sais, he shows "interesting" talents even as a little child... according that he is a half-drow, and possibly has Bhaal' divine blood flowing in his veins.. this calls for another question: is the Bhaal saga over with the PC's denial? There is still one person, who carries Bhaal's heritage - your son.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2003, 12:57:42 AM by T.G.Maestro »

Samuel Coyote

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2003, 02:54:41 AM »
What everyone must remember is that BG2, despite being one of the most best games ever, is still not very well written. Some bits wont make sense. We'll just have to deal with that.

As for the 'last Bhaalspawn', while some of the essence of Bhaal might have been transfered, there really isn't much for it. There is no more essence to aquire. While the protagonists child might recive some minor abilities(like those you get in BG1), there's no progression. The rest of Bhaals power has disapered, there shouldn't be a way for the PCs child to attain divinity by using the essence of Bhaal.

Though, this being forgotten realms, Im sure there are plenty of other ways to become a god. Time to get even with Cyric for what he did to grandpa Bhaal, maybe? :P

klaussner

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2003, 05:23:52 AM »
I read the Aerie and Viconia and Kelsey epilogues and I never got the impression the children had any divine powers, I don't think Abazigal's son has any bhaal powers either.

However, if you don't choose godhood, maybe your child has some kind of birthright to try an Ascencion.

Kish

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2003, 06:00:30 AM »
Quote
I don't think Abazigal's son has any bhaal powers either.
Seeing as he's tougher than his father unless you install a mod, I do think so.

And he obviously thinks so as well, and would take your head off, literally, for suggesting otherwise, if he existed in real life.

However, there is, in fact, no evidence either way for whether or not Draconis has power inherited from grandad.  It's all speculation.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2003, 06:04:17 AM by Kish »

Caswallon

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2003, 06:05:39 AM »
Didn't Charname give up his Bhaal essence when he made the final decision to be mortal? *All* of Bhaal's essence was locked up in Mt Celestia, if Charname (the last Bhaalspawn except for his slaves... err, party members) became mortal.
Charname's children therefore wouldn't possess any of the essence.

As for aging - I think one shouldn't bother too much. The same problem arises with dwarves and elves setting out of Candlekeep at the tender age of 20 (BG1 prologue). :)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2003, 06:07:34 AM by Caswallon »

T.G.Maestro

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2003, 01:47:56 PM »
"*All* of Bhaal's essence was locked up in Mt Celestia"
-Only the essence possessed by the PC. And since everyone thinks he/she is the last Child, some minor flaws of Bhaals power remain in the Realms.

"I don't think Abazigal's son has any bhaal powers either"
-Aura of Death was originally planned to be a Bhaal power. It was intended to be available in one of the Pocket Plane challanges, as I remember the 4. one or so. It was dropped later however.

dorotea

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2003, 03:44:14 PM »
If you check Adalon the dragon stats she fits into a category of 'adult dragon' and this is just under 200 years of age. Now I think Abazigail is a bit older but still maybe about 200-250 ... I can easily see Bhaal going about his family business 200-300 years before the ToT, his human offspring from that time are all dead by now. He may have been procreating himself for the last 2-3 centuries, lol. Then again - would not he run out of essense? Or, perhaps the essense only streams into children after his actual death? hmm As for SoA being not particularly well written - I disagree. It maybe not as deep as Torment but still pretty good. Gosh it is the first game I ever finished and played a number of times over . :) Unlike say NWN where I am stuck in chapter 3 since september and have no desire to go on ...

Caswallon

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2003, 04:55:37 PM »
Maestro: I thought the very goal of Melissan was eradicating *all* Bhaalspawn to collect the scattered essence again completely. Didn't the Solar say something like "you're the last Child of Bhaal - except for Imoen", who can give up her share of the essence?
I thought that Charname indeed *is* the last Bhaalspawn. That would mean that all of Bhaal's essence is collected in the Blood Throne after the defeat of Melissan.

T.G.Maestro

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2003, 05:55:04 PM »
Well, things in ToB aren't overly precise. For example, getting all of Bhaals children into Saradush and then let Yaga Shura butcher them - a poor idea. The story mentions that they were drove into the city by Illasera. Hmm... I wonder how she could menage to accomplish this impossible task - collect all of Bhaals children, then gather them into Saradush. And I don't think Melissans work would help much better.
Another example: what happens to Viekang, after you help him teleport away from Saradush? Definetly a Child of Bhaal.

Cas: yes, Amelissans idea was to collect all of Bhaals essence for herself.
"I thought that Charname indeed *is* the last Bhaalspawn"
-Not exactly:
  -Viekang;
  -Imoen;
  -The protegonists son;
  -those funny looking Bhaalspawns at the Marching Mountains: Tidbit & friends, if you let them flee
 

Tancred

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Children of Bhaal
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2003, 06:03:02 PM »
If we take as read that there is no inconsistency in BG, then thereis only one explanation: all the other Bhaalspawn not involved in the conflict must have met their deaths before the finale. Possibly, Fate lended a hand.

 

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