Appearance Is Everything

[LSWSjr]

I just wanted to ask you Icewind Gate II module runners out there, if Icewind Gate II will contain long overdue fixes to the NPC paper dolls.

For example, all through the Baldur's Gate series, we had to suffer Minsc having white hair. One would think the development team could fix this problem, as they did with Jaheira's hair change from BG I to BG II.

Other possible changes could be:
Jahiera's Skin (All BGII): From red to something more natural.
And
Sarevok's Hair (BGII:ToB): In the same instance as Minsc's, although this is not as serious.

I for one am sick of having to dig out a copy of Shadow Keeper, every time I start a new game to fix these problems. So could I please be humoured by adding these changes.

Also a shout out to anyone else with cosmetic changes that could be made, either for NPC's, environment, spell and other effects. Please add them here, as it would help in making this module a masterpiece it is meant (and surely will) be.

LSWSjr of LSWSjr Productions Australia, signing off                    



[!--EDIT|LSWSjr|Mar 17 2003, 08:04 PM--]

[Riklaunim]

Look on the character panel – there you can change all colors, including hair. Aerie as a drow looks nice. You can set the appearing of a NPC as you like.

PS. I’ll write it here: in BG2 we have nice monk animations. In IWD2 we don’t. It is possible to make all IWD2 races except gnome, dwarf and halfling to look like BG2 monks when they are really monks? Monk avatar is still in IWD2 however it isn't used. As for the animation it is CHMMxx for males and CHFMxx for females, in both IWD2 and BG2.                    



[!--EDIT|Riklaunim|Mar 17 2003, 11:04 AM--]

[Hitman]

uh what possible color hair could you give them?  they're bald.  the engine doesn't support bald people                    

[kozand]

Are these possible?

Eleminating sprite mirroring on party members so they don't switch weapons in their hands when they move around (BG 1 style).

Female dwarf and gnome avatars.

BG type shield avatar superimposed on BG2 type party member avatar.

IWD soundset for BG2 inventory management sounds.

Some IWD spell animations replacing BG2 spells. Like IWD dimension door, IWD style flame strike (with IWD area of affect duration rules) ect.
IWD style anti-magic field, spell immunity, cloak of mirroring, spell trap, shield of acorns.
IWd style burning hands with IWD rules.

IWD ice storm, web animation and IWD style cold, fire animation on avatars (red glow effect, Shroud of flame animation). IWD style cone of cone and winter wolf breath weapon.

A question: let's suppose we use IWD burning effect when party members are hit by fireball. Can we combine IWD BG2 animations into one spell effect animation. For instance party burns with IWD style, but they become coal black with those little flickering flames on them when the die.

Some BG2 trolls can be replaced by IWD troll animation. Like they have done with spirit troll. How about we use IWD umber hulks for Umber Hulk elders and BG2 umber hulks for normal umber hulks?

How about we disturbute IWD and BG2 sunlight, sunscorch and IWD 2 sunbeam animations about different spells?

of course these things are for later stages but... let's keep them in mind. Maybe a sticky topic?




                   

[kozand]

I think the engine supports bald people! Here is the solution: add skin color set to hair color set and u have bald people!                    

[weimer]

In general, the answer is no. These things are hard-coded into the engine. They won't be fixed here for the same reason that no mod fixes them for BG2.

If you have an explicit suggestion like "make Minsc's hair color 138 and his skin color 138" I can do that. But I can't change anything in the EXE proper.

Sprite mirroring should be an option in your INI file in BG2. It is in mine.

All IWD2 spell animations will be used. No BG2 spell animations will be used unless IWD2 happens to copy them anyway. No "combining" is possible.

Many IWD2 sprite animations are used instead of BG2 sprite animations (in particular, the trolls and the umber hulks). Check out the beta or the screenshots. In general, it is actually *very difficult* to bring over BG2 sprite animations.

Sunbeam? I'm not sure what you're talking about, but we'll be using the IWD2 spell system.

Monks -- you could give someone a monk animation (and it has been reported to work) *but* whenever you level up it is set back to fighter since that is hard-coded into the game engine.                    

[kozand]

Oh I meant party members' avatars' sprite mirroring Westley. .ini file does not provide us not weapon switching party avatars. That command is about monster avatars and it is turned off by default.

Sunbeam is an IWD spell (well I don't remember the exact name). IWD 2 has different spells and some different spell animations. In my opinion some BG2 spell animations are better than IWD 2 but since u say combination or importing is not possible or quite difficult I should not bother u with it. But TDD has imported some spell or creature animations.

But IWD 2 uses some BG2 animations... oh well I was talking about a redistribution of existing IWD2 spell animation resources since we are talking about cosmetic changes.

But u know what is possible or not. So disregard my words if they are not aplicable.

One thing I want to understand dear Westley, will u use converted BG2 spells or will u use only IWD 2 spells?

And congratulations! This is a giant task! I bow before your skills!                    



[!--EDIT|kozand|Mar 18 2003, 03:55 AM--]

[weimer]

Party members sprite mirroring? I'm not sure that I follow you. Can you provide some instructions that will let me see what you're talking about? In any event, it's unlikely that I can change it.

TDD imported some spell and creature animations *into BG2*. It is much easier to import animations into BG2 than it is to import them into IWD2. For example, in IWD2 you can't even play arbitrary BAM files on command.

The party will use IWD2 spells like sunbeam, entangle, eagle's splendor, etc. Innate monster abilities that are encoded as spells (like zombie fear or mind flayer mind blasts or kamikaze kobold explosions or whatever) will be converted over (although if there is an IWD2 counterpart, that will be sometimes used).

It's not that impressive until it's done. :-)                    

[LSWSjr]

If you have an explicit suggestion like "make Minsc's hair color 138 and his skin color 138" I can do that. But I can't change anything in the EXE proper.

                   This is what I was mainly referring to in my case, Wes...


LSWSjr of LSWSjr Productions Australia, signing off                    

[kozand]

Okay Wes. I will clarify u.

IE monsters don't switch their weapons in their hands when they change direction while roaming on map.

But party avatars do. As Dave G said once they especially did not draw whole animation sequences to prevent this. Because it would take too much time to implement and would cost disk space.

I dunno how to say this in english but is it possible to revert party avatar sprite mirroring using a command so PC won't switch his weapons when he dual wields? I mean PC goes to east. Katana held in left, bastard sword held in right hand. PC changes direction: katana held in right hand, bastard sword held in left hand. BG1 party avatars don't switch their weapons in their hands. Can u draw new animations by editing already existing party avatar animations by adding new sequences to conpensate this sprite mirroring?

One more question. How about converting spells? For instance, protection from magical weapons. Let me explain further.

BG2 style: immunity to magical weapons.

Possible 3ed D&D IWD2 style: 30/ damage reduction against to all magical weapons.

Absolute immunity: BG2 Style. immunity to + 0 - +5 weapons.

Possible 3ed D&D IWD2 style: 50/+5 damage reduction. DR is 50 because even +5 weapons cannot avoid this. 10/+1, 20/+2, 30/+3, 40/+4, 50/+5 and so on. 10/+1 means first 10 dmg per hit is ignored.

u can adjust damage reduction checking monster manual looking for damage reduction tables.

Do u plan to convert BG2 only ad&d spells to IWD2 in this way? It might be feasible for some spells. Otherwise IWD2 mages are too easy to beat I think. No breach, no pierce magic... weird.                    

[weimer]

OK, Kozan. The answer to any question that starts with "can you draw'" is "no".

If the appropriate animations are hidden somewhere in BG2, I can probably convert them over. However, I have neither the time nor the talent to create any new material. If you assert that these animations are present in BG1, then it is possible that IWG1 will use them and you will see the effect you're looking for.

Pro-MW, Breach and Pierce Magic are not present in IWG2. I may re-consider this during the difficulty-testing portion of the show if it turns out that IWG2 mages *are* too easy. I don't think that's obvious, however, and it certainly cannot be inferred from IWD2 mages.                    

[kozand]

OK Wes. Thank u! No of course only old BG1 avatars do not have sprite mirroring. BG 2 avatars have sprite mirroring. No dice, not a chance I reckon.

Yes IWD2 mages do not have pro. from mw ect. and that makes them cheasy in MY opinion. Anyway IWD 2 HAS damage reduction files for instance certain undead have slashing resistence and that may ease your efforts to implement said spells should u decide to do so.

Understand Wes that I dunno how to make mods so my suggestions may seem obviously silly for u. I can do nothing about that. But I do apreciate your serious effort to understand and answer me.

I just throw out as many suggestions as possible to u to choose or refuse. Since I am ignorant I may bother u sometimes but u can always decide on what is possible to implement and what is not.

That said now I think on sound sets.

U know IWD 2 sound sets have more selection sound entries. But BG2 NPCs have their own fewer selection sound sets.

U have some options.

1 At least for PC: U can use IWD 2 sound sets -more selection sounds. High quality I think.

and u can add some 'missing' sound entries to BG2 NPC sound sets. I mean some combo of imported IWD 2 sound sets to Anomen sound set for instance so we can have 2 dying sounds or 2 reactions for death of a party member. Yes imported IWD 2 sounds would not be the same but what do u think?

I mean this: Let's say there are 6 Anomen selection sounds and we add 2 more sounds from IWD 2 How fighter sound set and obtain IWD 2 standart of 8 selection sounds.

2 U can limit IWD 2 sound sets to scale them back to obtain fewer selection sounds of BG2. These scaled back sound sets could be used for PC creation.


And an interesting idea.

IWD 2 has starting parties. What about this? Let's offer players alternative starting parties consisted of 2 players + PC.

For instance not caged Jaheira or Minsc, but caged Branwen and Yeslick ect. An optional starting package. Yes no associated quests besides freeing them (at most a few altenative lines, starting conversations) but after completion of Icewind Gate some -even u- may decide to add some BG1 NPC mods for these alternative starting packages (Branwen adventures like Jaheira's Harper adventures). So all players would have a chance to play Icewind Gate with their fav BG1 NPCs.                    

[Tancred]

And an interesting idea.

IWD 2 has starting parties. What about this? Let's offer players alternative starting parties consisted of 2 players + PC.

For instance not caged Jaheira or Minsc, but caged Branwen and Yeslick ect. An optional starting package. Yes no associated quests besides freeing them (at most a few altenative lines, starting conversations) but after completion of Icewind Gate some -even u- may decide to add some BG1 NPC mods for these alternative starting packages (Branwen adventures like Jaheira's Harper adventures). So all players would have a chance to play Icewind Gate with their fav BG1 NPCs.

                   A good idea. It would do wonders for the plot and the feeling of continual narrative, but it's got one major flaw.

There are many many many NPCs from BG1 that have cameo appearances in BG2. Viconia and Edwin are already recruitable and tied into quests; what becomes of their respective scheduled appearances if they're already in your party? Ajantis, Xzar, Montaron, Faldorn, Tiax, Quayle, Garrick, Coran and Safana are already in BG2 for brief appearances. Imoen, Jahiera and Minsc are, naturally, accounted for. Likewise Khalid and Dynaheir, though in a somewhat more definite way. (Have I missed anyone?)

That only gives you the choice of: Eldoth, Skie, Alora, Xan, Branwen, Yeslick and Kagain. Not really that much choice, and it still won't satisfy the majority of BG-followers.

The amount of rescripting, changing and creativity that would be involved in remaking BG2 to allow all the other characters to be chosen would be, I think... immense. A wonderful idea, but not one to be attempted any time soon, if I'm any judge.                    

[kozand]

Thank u. Really I suggested a very basic thing actually.


I don't ask Wes makes new mods concerning new NPC quests. If somebody want them they are free to do whatever they want.

I just ask this and if it is feasible:

Eldoth, Skie, Alora, Xan, Branwen, Yeslick and Kagain can be found in alternative cages in pairs. But no Jaheira or Minsc. If we chose an alternative starting package that is.

Jaheira could be still found at Harper Hold and Minsc at Copper Coronet. So we can still get most quests! Only maybe Jaheira would require an update about Khalid (somehow they should got seperated before party captured). A few more lines for first meeting and I can write them. As well as for Minsc-Dynaheir loss. That is all. All other original NPC banters will trigger as long as we keep them in party.

Complete sound sets and a bit stat tweaking that's all. I am not talking about talkative versions like Tree of Life interjection. Basically several .cre files and spawning script. Since only a pair of them would appear if player chooses alternative packages.  And they would come only via starting a new game. So no different .cre files for different levels.

Then if another ethusiast will make mods for them after IWG comes out it would be a seperate effort. I just suggested this because IWD 2 already has this feature

If even this is too complicated and not worth for effort just spawn them in city or at Copper Coronet after starting normally. It is not even a modlet! Afterall I am talking about cosmetic changes.                    

[Hitman]

kozand.... that should really be a bg2 mod, not iwg2 mod.  and it would be pretty hard to change someone's entire dialouge; jaheria's whole romance talks about khalid at a few points.  it would be pretty hard to write in dynaheir or khalid.  it would be cool if someone did, but it would be one big project.                    

[kozand]

I agree. But maybe... oh well it may sound foolish but maybe I fail to express what I mean (since i am not a native speaker). forget about it.

I have a concrete question:

Could u implement IWD portraits into IWG? By modifying their size ect?                    

[Mike]

Are there any way to lock what avatar you want to use? In IWD2 I had an multiclassed paladin of mystra/mage and really hated it when she shifted apperance on level up. I preffered her to look as a mage all the time. Further I don't want my female gnomish mages to use the male avatars. I even used Dalekeeper II to give her an hafling cleric look to get rid of the bearded look but failed misarably, at the next level up it wass back to the bearded lady again. I eventually put an barrel helmet on her to minimze this inconvinience.

[eachna]

Thank u. Really I suggested a very basic thing actually.


I don't ask Wes makes new mods concerning new NPC quests. If somebody want them they are free to do whatever they want.

I just ask this and if it is feasible:

Eldoth, Skie, Alora, Xan, Branwen, Yeslick and Kagain can be found in alternative cages in pairs. But no Jaheira or Minsc. If we chose an alternative starting package that is.

It sounds like this would make a reasonable mod project.

My suggestion would be to do something like this.

Create Eldoth, Skie, Alora, Xan, Branwen, Yeslick and Kagain as starting NPC's, just as you would for any other custom NPC project. This includes level-up files, soundsets, etc.

Use appropriate editing tools to find where Jaheira and Minsc start out (the exact coordinates).

Create your mod so that it immediately triggers after the end of the first movie narration (during the bit where Imoen usually comes in and lets you out of the cage).

Here's the tricky part. You have to figure out 'how' to get the appropriate folks into the cages. Either you could have a message box pop up before Imoen speaks to you asking which folks you want in the cages (in an "Out of Character" way), or, you could make it a smoother, more in-game option, and you could exchange conversation with Imoen which sets the people (something like "Heya -- who do you see in that cage just north of us ...<person 1> <person 2> <person 3>".

Having set who's supposed to be in the cages, you teleport Khalid and Jaheira out, and teleport the appropriate people in. Set Khalid and Jaheira to be find-able somewhere else (perhaps right outside of the dungeon after the movie where Imoen is taken off by the wizards), and write in nice little reunion dialogues that link back the conversations that used to happen when they were in the cages (taking out the bit where you're being harped at to get them out of the cages).

One issue to keep in mind is that Minsc's cage doesn't have a key, so, you'd have to provide an alternate in-game way to escape it. (Maybe you could trigger the same effect that simulates his rage breaking the bars, if the PC is carrying the key to Jaheira's cage).

So, it does sound feasible to me, as long as you (or another interested person) knows enough about modding or is willing to learn it, well enough to insert a new NPC into the game. I think the most work would be setting up the NPC's to be inserted (with their sound-sets, greet/join/leave files, level-up files, etc).

Someone else who knows about modding is free to correct me if I'm wrong, of course, but, it sounds very "do-able" to me, as a BGII mod.

[Jerr Bear]

Are there any way to lock what avatar you want to use? In IWD2 I had an multiclassed paladin of mystra/mage and really hated it when she shifted apperance on level up. I preffered her to look as a mage all the time. Further I don't want my female gnomish mages to use the male avatars. I even used Dalekeeper II to give her an hafling cleric look to get rid of the bearded look but failed misarably, at the next level up it wass back to the bearded lady again. I eventually put an barrel helmet on her to minimze this inconvinience.

I agree. If I wanted a male character for my dwarf or gnome, I'd have picked one. They look too mannish!  :angry:  <_<  -_-  

[raptor]

Dwarven females take *PRIDE* in their beards you know
after all Tibledworf Pwent was talling Cattie-Brie all the time that she would look really good with a beard on her face  >_<

[LaMalice55]

I have a question about the weapon appearances on the paper dolls. Will we be able to see the difference between a scimitar and a long sword in IWG2? IWD2 had scimitars, but they looked like longswords which really annoyed me. Is it possible to take the scimitar animations in BG2 and put them into IWG2? The same goes for katanas, too.

[astrallionheart]

Katana paperdolls were available if you used DLTCEP to edit the paper dolls. Im not sure if the scimitar animation worked when called upon; although some people have claimed so, whenever I assigned the scimitar paper doll I ended up getting a "blue longsword" without the fat scimitar blade.