Pocket Plane Group
Friends and Neighbors => Weimer Republic (WeiDU.org) => Solaufein Workshop => Topic started by: Sphira on February 27, 2003, 07:31:59 PM
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This subject has been brought up a few times, but something's gotta be pounded out. I don't think one person should make up the whole backstory between Sola and Phaere. So pitch in ideas, folks. :D
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Perhaps we should start by listing what we know first, then work it from there? :)
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*nod-nods* Agreed.
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*pretends to think real hard*
Let's see.....Sola is a male drow who has had his share of dealing with torture... :P
*Runs from the thwap heading her way!*
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:lol:
*baps Ama with a giant squeeky hammer* No innudeno until someone posts something serious, you! :P
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Well, how about this: Neither Solaufein or Pheare were fond of turning into driders... having eight legs and all that will probably cause problems in their relationship while it lasted.... :lol:
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Stuff We Know (Bluntly obvious stuff)
1) Sola and Phaere were from different houses.
2) Aludace[sp] did not like this.
3) Solaufein reconized that Phaere was no longer the same person he had loved.
4) Sola's house had to be in some postion of power.
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Mentioned stuff on the Mod
1) Phaere had a postive impact on Sola's life before her abuse. *cough*writtenbymoi*hack*
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Stuff we speculate on
1) The affair was secert.
2) Solaufein might have been a son of matron due to his postion in the fighter's guild.
... I know there's more but uhm.... My muse is on strike.
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Okay.. I just had to dig out the lines from the game :)
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Ah... it was only a matter of time. She and I were... lovers, but the Matron Mother saw she was feeling more care for me than the Spider Queen would allow.
She suffered torture at the hands of the tentacle rods... I shudder at the thought. All that remained once the Handmaidens were done was her ambition.
And I... I remained only as a reminder of her weakness. Very well, then. It had to end like this, and so it shall. But Solaufein shall not go quietly!
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I see. It was only a matter of time before she acted, I suppose. No alliance of mine to any House could prevent the unseen dagger from plunging into my back.
Phaere and I were... lovers once. Mother Ardulace felt Phaere cared for me in a most un-drow-like fashion and had her taken by the Handmaidens.
They tortured her with tentacle rods... tortures I can only shudder at the thought of. When they were done all that remained of Phaere was her ambition.
And I... I remained only as a constant reminder of her weakness. (sigh) I have been expecting this for a long time.
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From the looks of it, the relationship that Sola and Phaere had wasn't much of a secret, especially if Sola is willing to mention it to a new underling (the PC).
I agree with Sola being the son of a matron, a good starting point on how Sola became powerfull enough to ally himself with another house. The only reason why another house might do this is if Sola provided more power for it. Such as fighting skills to match a Weapon Master or a powerfull, high level mage to bring into the fold.
[!--EDIT|Amazor'dra|Feb 27 2003, 09:26 PM--]
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Well... the 'feeling' part of the affair was supposed to be hush-hush, perhaps. But obviously Matron A took notice.
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*nod* It wouldn't have been unusual for Phaere to have a "boy toy" so to speak. But to actually fall in love would be a big no-no. To have any affectionate feelings at all probably would be.
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Considering the consequences for Phaere, I doubt he was a boy-toy for long.
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All right, so maybe Mother A 'suggested' to Phaere that it was time to progress her Sola fling in a manner appropriate to young priestesses of Lolth; that is, adopt him into House Despana and then devour him. I doubt Phaere would've survived an outright refusal; more likely, she temporized but continued seeing Sola. This, then, would've been the defiance that landed her under the tentacle rods but didn't kill her entirely - only a part of her.
As for Sola, one can surmise that he survived such a debacle only by assuming that he was already a favored bit of property of another matron mother. Not a son, necessarily, but certainly publically identified with that house so that his continued existence was a matter of prestige for it. He'd be aware of this himself, hence his challenge to Phaere to 'risk war between your house and mine.' His unorthodox survival of an affair with a priestess of Lolth would also account for the handmaidens' evident and particular dislike of him.
And, as a personal aside, might it be possible to bribe Jarlaxle to return Phaere's remains to Sola? And then, perhaps, have the priests of Lathander perform a hideously expensive ritual to resurrect her? Under the ministrations of Lathander, it would be amusing to see exactly which Phaere was revived. Besides, like Xzar speaking of Montaron, I'd think she "must have something interesting to say..." At least it would be a way of giving Sola a larger role in a party led by a heterosexual male PC.
[!--EDIT|Hendryk|Feb 28 2003, 03:27 PM--]
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Perhaps I'm wrong, but if he'd been adopted into House Despana, wouldn't that have negated his ties to the other House?
And come to think on it, apparently he lived at the Male Fighter's Guild. I wonder if he was the head of it, or at least highly ranked enough that the Handmaidens couldn't touch him for that reason, because he was a skilled fighter-mage and the Head House wouldn't let them.
Someone was actually talking about making Phaere into an NPC at one point, that could be an explanation as to how she was alive again, Hendryk.
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Perhaps I'm wrong, but if he'd been adopted into House Despana, wouldn't that have negated his ties to the other House?
Absolutely right. And regardless of how important he was to his original house, as the lover of Phaere, a priestess daughter of the Matron Mother of Despana, his adoption by Despana *would* have followed in the normal course of drow affairs. As would his eventual demise when Phaere (or Mother Ardulace!) tired of him.
Since that sequence of events plainly did not occur in his case, I feel the irregularity should be attributed to Phaere's genuine affection for him because I can't see any wriggle room for Sola himself to have avoided custom at that time and in those circumstances.
And come to think on it, apparently he lived at the Male Fighter's Guild. I wonder if he was the head of it, or at least highly ranked enough that the Handmaidens couldn't touch him for that reason, because he was a skilled fighter-mage and the Head House wouldn't let them.
And Phaere had an apartment at the Female Fighter Society. As I recall from 1e rules, the Fighter Societies were supposed to be neutral elements; buffers among the rivalries of Houses. Members were, above all, supposed to have foresworn their House ties so as to leave loyalty to the Society undivided. Plainly, the residents of Ust Natha never read those rules as their Societies were very highly charged with House politics. So I think we can disregard his membership in the Fighter Society as it apparently was just a reflection of his House's importance and his own importance within that House.
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Absolutely right. And regardless of how important he was to his original house, as the lover of Phaere, a priestess daughter of the Matron Mother of Despana, his adoption by Despana *would* have followed in the normal course of drow affairs. As would his eventual demise when Phaere (or Mother Ardulace!) tired of him.
Okay. Again, I have only read a few of the Drizzit books, but do they actually sacrifice *every* lover when they're done with them? Seems a bit wasteful to me :)
Since that sequence of events plainly did not occur in his case, I feel the irregularity should be attributed to Phaere's genuine affection for him because I can't see any wriggle room for Sola himself to have avoided custom at that time and in those circumstances.
*nod* Hard as it is to imagine a female drow really being in love, apparently this one broke the mold. It's going to be interesting to dig into the past and figure out how this happened in such a regimented society.
As I recall from 1e rules, the Fighter Societies were supposed to be neutral elements; buffers among the rivalries of Houses. Members were, above all, supposed to have foresworn their House ties so as to leave loyalty to the Society undivided.
Never having read those rules, I wouldn't know, but I trust your knowledge of them.
Plainly, the residents of Ust Natha never read those rules as their Societies were very highly charged with House politics. So I think we can disregard his membership in the Fighter Society as it apparently was just a reflection of his House's importance and his own importance within that House.
Yes, a lot of the residents of Baldur's Gate seem to have never read the rules :) So I don't feel too badly if we overlook any rules in telling this story.
And come to think on it, do we even know Sola's House name?
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Okay. Again, I have only read a few of the Drizzit books, but do they actually sacrifice *every* lover when they're done with them? Seems a bit wasteful to me :)
Well, after a couple hundred years, anyone's apt to grow a bit tiresome.
Also, I'd imagine it was something of a reflection of the Lolth-decreed female dominated society. Following the model of the black widow spider, it would seem almost compulsory for females of rank to eliminate lovers after awhile; not doing so would expose one to charges of 'softness'. So, like many another society, the drow are apparently content to waste a great deal of their members' lives in order to maintain the accustomed social structure.
And come to think on it, do we even know Sola's House name?
I don't. So put him in Despana's most bitter enemies, the better to play out the Romeo and Juliet line. (And, no, I don't know who that might be, either.)
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Okay. Again, I have only read a few of the Drizzit books, but do they actually sacrifice *every* lover when they're done with them? Seems a bit wasteful to me
They sometimes turn them into driders....
As I recall from 1e rules, the Fighter Societies were supposed to be neutral elements; buffers among the rivalries of Houses. Members were, above all, supposed to have foresworn their House ties so as to leave loyalty to the Society undivided.
When a House believes they are going to war against another House, matrons are known to call apon any of their own from the Fighter and Mage Societies. But at any other time I agree that members did not have much contact to their houses at all.
And come to think on it, do we even know Sola's House name?
Time then to think up one. ;)
Solaufein Ousst'tar (means Heirs to Vistory in drow)
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Okay. Again, I have only read a few of the Drizzit books, but do they actually sacrifice *every* lover when they're done with them? Seems a bit wasteful to me :)
Not always...sometimes a pair of lovers just goes their seperate ways, as Malice and Zaknafein did. Sacrifices are usually made when Lloth fears that a member of her clergy is becoming too attached to a male and orders her to sacrifice him.
The drow usually have plenty of children, and they're usually not monogamous, so the numbers are a little more balanced out.
Another possibility for Solaufein's history is that he was the victim of a drow-style adoption. If he was born a commoner and a noble house saw he had potential, they might have killed his family and taken him in. He might have also been sold to or kidnapped by that same noble house.
[!--EDIT|Athena|Feb 28 2003, 11:01 PM--]
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Another possibility for Solaufein's history is that he was the victim of a drow-style adoption. If he was born a commoner and a noble house saw he had potential, they might have killed his family and taken him in. He might have also been sold to or kidnapped by that same noble house.
Now there's an interesting thought.
I still have to wonder not only about Phaere, but about what turned him from worshipping Lloth. Was it a result of Phaere being taken from him, or was it something he was already turning to before that happened?
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Another possibility for Solaufein's history is that he was the victim of a drow-style adoption. If he was born a commoner and a noble house saw he had potential, they might have killed his family and taken him in. He might have also been sold to or kidnapped by that same noble house.
Now there's an interesting thought.
I still have to wonder not only about Phaere, but about what turned him from worshipping Lloth. Was it a result of Phaere being taken from him, or was it something he was already turning to before that happened?
Would he be so defiantly confident of his house's support if he'd been bloodily kidnapped into it?
I've read that it's a lack of knowledge of alternatives that helps keep males in line in Lolth's enclaves, so, as for rejecting Lolth, that perhaps occured whenever he was exposed to the perspective of non-drow philosophy and poetry. I do wonder when and how he came by those books he lugs around. I also wonder if the books originally belonged to a mentor figure for him; someone encountered on a surface raid?
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I've read that it's a lack of knowledge of alternatives that helps keep males in line in Lolth's enclaves, so, as for rejecting Lolth, that perhaps occured whenever he was exposed to the perspective of non-drow philosophy and poetry. I do wonder when and how he came by those books he lugs around. I also wonder if the books originally belonged to a mentor figure for him; someone encountered on a surface raid?
Well, there are those little merchants on the lower left of the Underdark map, is it possible they could have had those books and he got them out of curiosity? Or he found them on the body of someone killed on a surface raid or someone who wandered too near Ust Natha? Or even among belongings of some of the slaves in Ust Natha, that just got tossed aside when they were put in the slave pens?
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Or even among belongings of some of the slaves in Ust Natha, that just got tossed aside when they were put in the slave pens?
Or maybe they came with a slave that someone in his house owned & whom Sola got to know? Maybe a sad tale there, too, if Sola couldn't buy the individual in question.
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Or maybe they came with a slave that someone in his house owned & whom Sola got to know? Maybe a sad tale there, too, if Sola couldn't buy the individual in question.
That's a good idea too. Not necessarily a doomed romance, but a friendship that normally could never have happened, but something about this person attracted Sola's curiosity?
The Drow don't normally read for the sake of reading, do they? I wonder if Sola had in his not-too-distant (in elven terms) ancestry a surface elf that he could have inherited this from. It could also account for his being somewhat different than the other Drow, if only on the inside and hidden till the PC comes along.
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Uhm.... in the diauloge I wrote for Solaufein and sent to Wes a few months ago dealt with the subject of where he got the elven book, and that was on a surfacer raid. :(
As for the poetry/philospy[sp] book, it's stated it's been translated a few times from the other underdark races before it got to Sola's hands. A surfacer wouldn't carry a object around like that.
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Uhm.... in the diauloge I wrote for Solaufein and sent to Wes a few months ago dealt with the subject of where he got the elven book, and that was on a surfacer raid. :(
Whoops. Sorry, Sphira :) That settles that then.
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Uhm.... in the diauloge I wrote for Solaufein and sent to Wes a few months ago dealt with the subject of where he got the elven book, and that was on a surfacer raid. :(
As for the poetry/philospy<sp> book, it's stated it's been translated a few times from the other underdark races before it got to Sola's hands. A surfacer wouldn't carry a object around like that.
We knew that. We were just seeing if you were still paying attention, what of the wedding and all.
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S'okay. ^_^ But the whole reason how he started to worship the Big E-Lady. Geez... wonder how things would be different he if worshipped Vhaerun instead?
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We knew that. We were just seeing if you were still paying attention, what of the wedding and all.
*sniffs* You havfta test me like that? *sniffles*
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We knew that. We were just seeing if you were still paying attention, what of the wedding and all.
*sniffs* You havfta test me like that? *sniffles*
Can't speak for Tsuru but in my own case, unhappily, yes. A dark and ancient compulsion that I've never quite shaken off.
However, by way of consolation, I've also learned to produce these super-sized assortments of Victorian mints and pralines. Won't you please forgive me by indulging in them?
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Can't speak for Tsuru but in my own case, unhappily, yes. A dark and ancient compulsion that I've never quite shaken off.
However, by way of consolation, I've also learned to produce these super-sized assortments of Victorian mints and pralines. Won't you please forgive me by indulging in them?
*sniffs* ... mints? .... *is tempted* You're forgiven. :)
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These men do know the way to catch our attention, or at least our sweet teeth, no, Sphira? ;)
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One would think they should. [_[ It's not like we talk about much else. :P Kidding, kidding!
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*snickers and passes Sphira some Belgian chocolate*
Errr... where were we again? ;)
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The books and Sola's life story. *takes the offered chocolate*
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Oh yeah. Sweets are such a distraction *grin*
Hmm.. do we want to start at his birth, or at where he met Phaere?
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.... How about in between? Or just a little before meeting Phaere? Don't think we should go all the way back to birth.
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*nod* Sounds good. Do you think he started worshipping Ellestrae (drat that spelling, let's give her a nickname!) before he met Phaere or after the breakup?
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Well... considering in the real world, sometimes a moving event draws one closer to religion. I would say that Solaufein heard/knew of Lady E, but didn't care much to know more. When Phaere was taken away, it drew him into worshiping Lady E. Something to hope for?
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*nods* Sounds like a plausible theory. And we can't forget he mentions finding others in Ust Natha who felt the same way. Perhaps a nice, tension filled scene of a meeting somewhere in there :)
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Wouldn't think there's a lot of them tho. :unsure:
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*nod* Small group, perhaps no more than five others, I'd say. Perhaps one of them got to him when Phaere was taken away by the Handmaidens.
But we still need to figure out how he and Phaere first got together too :)
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Re House name for Sola. I checked with Wes and he has no preference, said to use whatever we like.
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So I take it everyone then likes the last name Ousst'tar?
Coolio! :lol:
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*ponders* Now where did I put that Drow name generator...
*ducks*
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*fires up the name generator*
Rilynt'tar
Eilservs
Rilynt'tar
Auvryndar
Fey-Branche
Teken'duis
Arkhenneld
Barrison'del'armgo
Noquar
Aleanrahel
Any of these strike a chord that screams Solaufein's House? :)
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Eilservs
Auvryndar
Barrison'del'armgo
Noquar
I like these names. Tho, the second to the last one would be fun to say. :rolleyes:
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Not to mention to type *giggle*
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i really like the first and third names :D
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Solaufein Eilservs
Solaufein Auvryndar
Solaufein Barrison'del'armgo (ouch, what possessed me, that really *is* a mouthful)
Solaufein Noquar
*ponders*
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Solaufein Eilservs
Solaufein Auvryndar
Solaufein Barrison'del'armgo (ouch, what possessed me, that really *is* a mouthful)
Solaufein Noquar
*ponders*
*cough* poll thread *cough wizz*
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Teken'duis
This one is nice...but that's only becaues it reminds me of a certain fighting game. :P
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[img]http://games.telenet.be/forum/images/smilies/offtopic.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image']Tsuru if that name generator of yours can think of drow/Illithid/Netherese names then could you tell me where to get one ?
[!--EDIT|Niz|Mar 6 2003, 08:44 PM--]
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*ponders* Okay, House name vote underway.. now where were we? We decided to start shortly before his relationship with Phaere, right, Sphira?
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Yep. *nods* In the chat I wrote for Wes, I mentioned that Sola was once was -really- like how he acted when the PC first meet him. I never thought he was 'evil' in a sense but rather... didn't 'care', mayhap? :unsure:
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I could have sworn there was a dialog somewhere in the Underdark section that mentions Sola's house name. I know it wasn't Jellat, but I think Mother Ardulace might have mentioned it in the dialog where Pahere says that Veldrin killed Sola.
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I looked the file up in Infinity Explorer, and I'm not seeing any mention of Sola's House name.
The relevant part of the file is this:
Phaere says about Veldrin: "Matron, he/she is an excellent fighter...and he/she rid House Despana of its...other...problem."
Ardulace replies: "*This* is that one? Illithids, eye tyrants, gnomes...and the mighty Solaufein! Are you sure? To me he/she looks scrawny, and there is... something...odd..."
That's all they appear to say on the subject.
Hendryk, I looked up the dialogues of the drow in the tavern. One of them says that if it hadn't been for the fact that Sola was so favored by another high-ranking House he would have been made into a drider after the whole fiasco with Phaere, but they don't mention his House name.
*goes back to digging*
[!--EDIT|Athena|Mar 7 2003, 11:00 PM--]
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I could have sworn there was a dialog somewhere in the Underdark section that mentions Sola's house name. I know it wasn't Jellat, but I think Mother Ardulace might have mentioned it in the dialog where Pahere says that Veldrin killed Sola.
I checked Mother A's dialog. She mentions her own house, Despana, in that exchange but none other I could find in her dialog. And I don't remember Phaere naming any other house, either. Any other thoughts on where to look? Maybe one of the tavern barflies? I never ask questions there myself so I haven't been through their bits.
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UUDROW10.DLG: What was done then, who knows? It is obvious they hold no regard for each other, now. Indeed, the commander would be a drider were it not for his position and favor in another House of great rank.
UUDROW32.DLG: You would do well to listen closely to the commander Solaufein. He is in great favor with his House and leads the Male Fighter Society with fervor.
Those are the only mentions of Sola's House I could find, and still no name. So I think we're safe in just picking one :)
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*nudge* Any other ideas while we decide on that House name? :)
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are we sure he is native to the city? he could have come from affar?
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are we sure he is native to the city? he could have come from affar?
I honestly can't recall if he's native to Ust Natha or from another city. Anyone else remember anything on that one?
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The way he speaks to Veldrin at first, saying essentially that achievements anywhere else count for nothing in Ust Natha, sure make it sound like Ust Natha is the only "real" place as far as he's concerned. Of course, that could be play-acting - just repeating what the Mothers would expect to hear from him - but I can't recall anything that hints he's not from there.
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We don't see more than one Matron Mother, but I'm sure there have to be others about somewhere. I don't think thers's any drow city with just one. So we probably can assume his House is there, unless we hear otherwise from someone else.
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I would say not, remember that he appears to have been 'adopted' by another house as hinted at in several of the interjections. Ust natha also appears quite small so we would get more of a feeling that he was from there, perhaps?
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There are two matron mothers in ust natha matron mother despana and matron mother jaellet who you have the chance to loot her house and kill if you take the magic rope and lich quest.
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Never said my memory was perfect :) I think I've only done that magic rope quest once, long ago.
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I go by the Final Fantasy Code of Implied Civilians rule when it comes to fantasy games of all types. While there are only a handful of bussineses or buildings you can enter, it's implied the town is much bigger and more populated that what we can see.
After all, if you think about it, wouldn't monsters over-power the small non-monster population sooner or later, if the towns and crowd are really that small?
But... I was hoping this topic would have more focus between the history of Solaufein and Phaere, which is sorely lacking. [_[
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But... I was hoping this topic would have more focus between the history of Solaufein and Phaere, which is sorely lacking. <_<
*hands Sphira the topic-steerer* :)
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Mildly annoyed elves are dangerous things. B) But good for topics... sometimes.
And no, I'm not annoyed with anyone here. Just annoyed. :P
[!--EDIT|Sphira|Mar 11 2003, 11:39 PM--]
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Okay, reading back over, I don't think the affair was secret, he does mention that Ardulace saw Phare cared more for him than she should. So it's possible that Ardulace may have even had a hand in bringing him to her House to add to it's prestige, and that's when he and Phaere ended up lovers.
Wonder if Ardulace had originally intended Sola to be *her* lover and that was her motivation for sending Phaere to the Handmaidens?
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Wonder if Ardulace had originally intended Sola to be *her* lover and that was her motivation for sending Phaere to the Handmaidens?
That could possibly be part of the reason, but I highly doubt it weighed too much on Ardulace's mind. Phaere's weakness was the prime concern.
I think Ardulace's strongest motivation for sending Phaere to the Handmaidens was her concern that Phaere had become weak and unworthy of being a priestess. If Phaere was weak, it only weakened the House, and in Lloth's eyes, this would not reflect well upon Ardulace.
Phaere seemed to be a talented priestess and she was obviously skilled at assassination (she says she killed many of her sisters and became Ardulace's oldest daughter, that she secured her position this way). The more clerics a house has, the more secure its position usually is. Ardulace probably wasn't anxious to dispose of one of her key players (at least, not at that time) and so she decided to give Phaere one last shot. If the Handmaidens could beat Phaere's affection out of her, she would refocus herself and be a credit to the House and to her mother. If the Handmaidens couldn't do anything with her, then she'd make an excellent sacrifice to Lloth. Either way, Ardulace won. But attempting to 'redeem' Phaere first had more rewards.
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*nods* Very true, Athena.
If I remember right, the only reason Sola wasn't turned to a drider was because of his own House's power. I just thought it was an interesting twist if Ardulace had intended him for herself at first :)
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It would be a very interesting twist...and it may have even happened. *shrug* Monogamy is generally not something that occurs amoung the drow.
But I don't think Ardulace sent Phaere to the Handmaidens simply to get vengeance on Phaere for taking Solaufein as her lover when Ardulace had set her sights on him.
*shivers* I pity Sola, if Ardulace had set her sights on him.
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But I don't think Ardulace sent Phaere to the Handmaidens simply to get vengeance on Phaere for taking Solaufein as her lover when Ardulace had set her sights on him.
No, just among the reasons, the main one being, of course, Phaere showing an "un-Drowish affection* for him :)
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Well, if I may put my $.02 in...
I went back to that part of the game (So glad I kept that save). I agree that Ardulace was more concerned with Phaere's behavior making the house look bad. She seems to me very concerned with the image her house radiates.
I think that Ardulace also wanted to make an example of Phaere, who was one of her key players. But also, is it possible that Ardulace feared Phaere, and sent her to the handmaidens to not only get rid of her "un-drowlike" feelings, but to assure that Phaere knew her place?
Just a thought...
*prays that her muses will come back to her*
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looks like we have a new member in our ranks!
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I think that Ardulace also wanted to make an example of Phaere, who was one of her key players. But also, is it possible that Ardulace feared Phaere, and sent her to the handmaidens to not only get rid of her "un-drowlike" feelings, but to assure that Phaere knew her place?
Mmm...
It's possible.
Ardulace knew that Phaere would one day be a threat to her position. She would want to delay that day as long as possible. But she would know the odds of her preventing it were slim to none. If Phaere didn't eventually kill her and take over the House, then another person would. Ardulace would want to leave Despana in the strongest hands possible, and her assassin would have to be strong to kill her.
So the idea makes sense, if Ardulace was trying to postpone someone taking her place as long as possible. But I don't think Ardulace feared Phaere...she regards her with far too much disdain.
Welcome to the board, Caetlyn. :)
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Mmm...
It's possible.
Ardulace knew that Phaere would one day be a threat to her position. She would want to delay that day as long as possible. But she would know the odds of her preventing it were slim to none. If Phaere didn't eventually kill her and take over the House, then another person would. Ardulace would want to leave Despana in the strongest hands possible, and her assassin would have to be strong to kill her.
So the idea makes sense, if Ardulace was trying to postpone someone taking her place as long as possible. But I don't think Ardulace feared Phaere...she regards her with far too much disdain.
Welcome to the board, Caetlyn. :)
Thanks, Athena!
Perhaps fear is the wrong word. Threatened sounds so much better. I don't know who to feel worse for....Phaere or Sola!
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I hate double posts!
[!--EDIT|Caetlyn|Mar 12 2003, 09:20 PM--]
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Welcome, Caetlyn :) We're always glad to have people join us.
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any ideas on how/where they met?
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That's what we're trying to decide :)
I'm not sure he was actually adopted into Ardulace's House, but there was certainly an alliance. His House is referred to as being too powerful to mess with. Sphira, we really need to set some sort of timeline here :)
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Sure... uhm... How old is Sola gonna be? 300? 250? :blink:
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Well, I think he'd be at least an adult, not a child. What is the age of adulthood for Drow? I can never remember those elven years :)
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Elves are generally considered adults around 110.
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Normal elves are adults at the age of 110 or 120.Drow on the other hand have slightly shorter lifespans than surface elves and are considered adults around the age of 60 or 70.
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Thanks, Adam :)
Soo.. shall we say an even 100?
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sounds good to me.
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Maybe older by about 30 to 50 years as normally dark elves do not have as much power as he posseses at the age of 100 unless they are drizzt copys.
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Maybe older by about 30 to 50 years as normally dark elves do not have as much power as he posseses at the age of 100 unless they are drizzt copys.
Maybe it would be better to consider him a Drizzt copy because of in-game factors. The Phaere affair must've occurred when both were quite young; one simply cannot imagine a priestess of Lolth of any maturity whatsoever actually "falling in love" in the middle of drow society. Yet the sharpness of their present animosity makes it seem as though Phaere's repentence is quite a recent event as does Mother A's comments about revisiting the drider "so soon". There could be other interpretations allowing for a longer time span but you'd have to say that drow can hold grudges over decades that seem as new at the end as on the day they were conceived. That's credible - for drow - but would leave the problem of how Sola, a mere male, survived all that time in the face of immense hatred from Despana. It could've happened, of course, but no matter how well-placed young (and personally unpowerful) Sola was, it just doesn't seem terribly likely.
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Females do not get sent to Lloth clerical 'schools' until they are 90-100, teenager years for drow. Males usually spend a great deal of their youth as servants to their respective matron mothers under the guardienship of a lesser female, I would think that males are only sent to the fighter or mage schools around 90-100 or even younger than this.
All females though are sent to a fighting school for at least part of their training in weapons, I would say that Phearie was a very young Lloth priestess in-training that happened to run into Solaufein when he first went to the Fighting Society to train as well. :)
Both young enough--and didn't have their opinions beating out of them enough--to still fall in love without thinking of the consequences. :)
I may be wrong with this info since it's been awhile, but Adam will probably know. ;)
[!--EDIT|Amazor'dra|Mar 13 2003, 01:21 PM--]
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but how long would the romance have lasted. if they were both in in these academies, someone musta noticed pretty fast. no?
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If both students showed great promise--and both came from powerfull houses-- the teachers would not be so willing to point out any 'flaws' unless they are looking for a war.
I would say that the romance lasted until they were sent back to their respective schools(could be as long as a year): Phaerie to the Lloth priestess 'school' and Solaufein to the Mage Academy. Since Lloth priestesses are a major power, they would have no qualms pointing out the relationship when they noticed.
By this time, Solaufein showed enough promise in his abilities that he was able to attach himself to another powerful house. Phearie would not have this kind of protection--and since any close relationship is considered a weakness-- Ardulance (or however you spelled it) saved her house from disgrace by sending Phaerie to be tortured.
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not bad, i like it. but i think having it last longer would be better. i'd guess you would have to have had a very strong and deep relashionship if sola had still not gotten over her after all this time, 'specially if it asted less than a year...
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Methinks that most of the not getting over her part stems from Pheare getting tortured afterwords, while he managed to get off scot free.
That's got to leave a bruise considering there was nothing you could do to stop someone you cared about from getting hurt, when part of the cause of the torture had been you. :(
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remorsefull drow. now thats new!! but good point. score an other for ama!
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*bows* Thankee. ;)
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Who's to say that Phaere and Solaufein are the same age, anyway? *shurgs* And considering drow are still long lived, a year is hardly any time to them. I would say the break up has been "recent" (5 years) and Mother A has been 'flaunting' what she's done to Phaere to Solaufein during this time is sure to keep a wound open.
Now where did I get 5 years from?
Time for some math! :D
===
Cross Multipuly
Human Years = Red
Drow years = Blue
18 X 100
---------
75 X 417*
I think 400 to 500 years is about how long a drow lives anyway according to newer edition rules. So reduce 18/100...
1)9 = 50
2)3 = 16*
3)1 = 5.3
====
So using that math and guessing that Solaufein is about equal from 25 to 30 year old in human terms... chornologically he's about... 133* to 159 years old? :blink:
Would you all believe that math only took five mintunes for me to caluclate? [_[
* = rounded up
[!--EDIT|Sphira|Mar 13 2003, 07:51 PM--]
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*blinks*
Y'know what, Sphira, I'm just gonna take your word for it. :D
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It took me longer to 'format' that post than to do the calcuations! :lol: ... Why can't college algebra be this easy? *sob*
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Shall we split the difference and say 140 and go from there? :)
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*uses her calculator* That would make him '26'. *thumbs up*
[!--EDIT|Sphira|Mar 13 2003, 08:23 PM--]
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Females do not get sent to Lloth clerical 'schools' until they are 90-100, teenager years for drow. Males usually spend a great deal of their youth as servants to their respective matron mothers under the guardienship of a lesser female, I would think that males are only sent to the fighter or mage schools around 90-100 or even younger than this.
All females though are sent to a fighting school for at least part of their training in weapons, I would say that Phearie was a very young Lloth priestess in-training that happened to run into Solaufein when he first went to the Fighting Society to train as well. :)
Both young enough--and didn't have their opinions beating out of them enough--to still fall in love without thinking of the consequences. :)
I may be wrong with this info since it's been awhile, but Adam will probably know. ;)
In menzoberranzan males go to the fighter academy and train for 10 years at the age of 20, the same goes for mages but they train for 25 years. Females go to the academy around the age 40 and train to be a priestess for 40 years. Of course I do not remember if these mumbers apply to all drow cities or even a few.
That drizzt copy thing I said meant that there is one maybe two dark elves I know who posses skills beyond there years. When drizzt was 20 zaknafein said he was better that any other warrior in the city and a few years after he went to the academy they were putting him in the grand melee with students in classes years ahead of him and he won every time.
[!--EDIT|adam_2112|Mar 13 2003, 10:39 PM--]
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In menzoberranzan males go to the fighter academy and train for 10 years at the age of 20, the same goes for mages but they train for 25 years. Females go to the academy around the age 40 and train to be a priestess for 40 years. Of course I do not remember if these mumbers apply to all drow cities or even a few.
20? 20?
That, under the 100 years = adulthood equation only makes the poor things about '4 years old'. :o
Even under the 70 years = adulthood make the poor kids 'five years old'...
Or are we talking about 'human apparent' years when you say 20?
:huh:
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Hmm. According to Sphira's calculator, elven infants nurse for eight years and aren't reliably potty trained until 15 or so. No wonder they have so few children!
Actually, the compromise as I recall it was that elven children mature at about the same rate as human kids up to the age of five or so. After that, their development slows. Still, an elf of 20 would be the equivalent of a human of 12, older than the age at which most martial societies began formal training for their next generation of warriors.
[!--EDIT|Hendryk|Mar 14 2003, 05:10 AM--]
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Hmm. According to Sphira's calculator, elven infants nurse for eight years and aren't reliably potty trained until 15 or so. No wonder they have so few children!
*fwaps Hendryk with the squeaky hammer of +3* Meanie. :P
Actually, the compromise as I recall it was that elven children mature at about the same rate as human kids up to the age of five or so.
Well... nuts. That doesn't sound biologically sound. :blink: Ah well...
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Okay, y'all have officially set my head to spinning here :) Can we just agree on an age and then move on with this mass-written story? :lol:
[!--EDIT|Tsuru|Mar 13 2003, 09:40 PM--]
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I think around 26 in human years sounds good.
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Actually, the compromise as I recall it was that elven children mature at about the same rate as human kids up to the age of five or so.
Well... nuts. That doesn't sound biologically sound. :blink: Ah well...
Considering that elves and humans can interbreed and that even the offspring are fertile, it's not so far off the wall that infants of both races should develop at similar rates for a time.
Edit: Er-um. Sorry about that. Bad case of Last Word Syndrome.
140 pretty well fits all the proffered timelines so lets stay with that.
Now, how long ago was the 'Phaer affair'?
[!--EDIT|Hendryk|Mar 14 2003, 06:56 AM--]
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... I get annoyed over that, too! :P
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But anyhoo, just to get this timeline started. Sola's 140 years old. Phaere is 115 which roughly makes her 'about 21'. *nods*
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*applauds* Yay! Now we can really get started on this story :)
*shoves chocolates in all the rules lawyers mouths to hush them for now* :P :lol:
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OK on ages but how to account for the romance? If drow females start at 40 and train for 40 years (!?!) then it's been 35 years since Phaere was a deb. Sola began at 20, did 10 years of fighter training and 25 years of study to be a mage; 55 when he graduated and so he's been making his way in drow society for 85 years now.
So how'd they get together on the terms they did? Phaer's side is easy enough; a new grad (with honors, one supposes) looking about for a suitably dashing male to confirm her status and there's Sola who fits the bill perfectly. Standard drow procedure, so far. So what changed it into a genuine love match? The only thing I can come up with is that Sola at that time was a new and enthusiastic convert to Eilastraae. Not that he'd ever have told Phaer that but it would have given him a gentler, more positive attitude that could have affected a young, innocent (by drow standards) and enthusiastice priestess of Lolth as he did.
Thoughts? Ammunition?
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I got the impression he didn't care much about Lloth or Eilastraae. In the dialouge I wrote (which is in the mod currently) suggested it was Phaere that changed Sola to a better person. This was before he started to worship Eilastraae. *looks a bit guitly to bring this up*
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I got the impression he didn't care much about Lloth or Eilastraae. In the dialouge I wrote (which is in the mod currently) suggested it was Phaere that changed Sola to a better person. This was before he started to worship Eilastraae. *looks a bit guitly to bring this up*
No need to feel guilty. I thought it was kind of lame, myself, only I would think that there should be something - other than coincidence - to account for their relationship being warped (in drow terms) as it was. As far as worshipping Lady E goes, I think it's much more credible that Sola turned to her for solace after Phaere was turned into an enemy.
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Well, me and Tsuru are exchaning ideas on how they might meet. But as for the love aspect... ... We're working on it. B)
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Evil ideas of course *snicker*
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Evil has just been plotted. :D
The censored verison for male's minds shall be posted tomorrow. :)
All one can say is... Sola's a slut-puppy. ;)
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Needless to say, we truly are keeping it PG :) Innuendo, innuendo!
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Looking forward to it. If for no other reason than it's a part of Sola's backstory that desperately needed telling. No doubt it will provoke some itneresting dialogs with Sola as well :)
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Sola is kinda strange as he is a expert fighter/mage which almost never happen in drow society as they are about as rare as female mages (which do happen by the way). Another thing is that sola would have had to learn one of his professions outside of the drow academys as once you go through one of them you can not go to another in your lifetime (this by the way was organised by the priestesses of lolth to keep the males from gaining to much power and starting a rebellion).
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Given that he is quartered in the Male Fighter's Guild, it's got to be a given that he attended and completed at least the fighter's academy. Possibly his magic is self taught, or is a gift from Elistraee of some kind.
As far as this whole backstory being presented in-game, I have an idea to suggest.
That the backstory be written in a journal entry style from Phaere's POV, and be made into a book item in-game that can be found on her body after the ritual. It would be locked somehow, and only readable by the Player and therefore the PC, after some relevant dialog with Sola.
I was also thinking that Sola's Piwawfi cloak might have been a cherished gift from Phaere, and possibly could be altered to make it sun-safe, so PC could return it to him on the surface.
[!--EDIT|Dashael|Mar 14 2003, 07:23 PM--]
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Dashael your two ideas are very good I like them. Solas magic is probably self taught but he probably started in the fight er academy because in the 10th year of training all warrior spend the first six months at the mage academy learing how to use minor spells(mostly cantrips), better use of their inate abilities, and magic items and the last six months are spent at the priest academy learning the ways of lolth and about the "evil" races on the surface (complete BS).
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Dashael your two ideas are very good I like them. Solas magic is probably self taught but he probably started in the fight er academy because in the 10th year of training all warrior spend the first six months at the mage academy learing how to use minor spells(mostly cantrips), better use of their inate abilities, and magic items and the last six months are spent at the priest academy learning the ways of lolth and about the "evil" races on the surface (complete BS).
*agrees with Adam, especially on that last part*
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One thing that bugs me about ust natha is that it violates one of lolths main doctrines in that it teaches about the other drow gods because one of the reasons that lolth is the chief god of the dark elves is because she is thought of as the only drow deity because she fears that if the drow at large would learn of the vhaerun, eilistraee, or ghaunader then she would lose her worshippers to more caring or more upstart gods.
Another thing that is weird is if the pc is male or has male clerics in the party then why are they not accused of worshipping blasphemous gods or even questioned about it. Of course this might also be the reason that bioware made the idea of be a drow party being from ched nesad as that is the only drow city that allows male priests of lolth.
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Not that I disagree, but the Ghaunaduar and Vhaerun references, as I recall are fleeting moments just before the parties involved get killed :)
If you take these religous insurgents into account, maybe Lloth was starting to lose her sway over Ust Natha for some time before "Veldrin" showed up.
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There are three instances that I remember perfectly and those the man who talks about the first drow matron mother and her stone throne stored in the rafters of her grass home falling through the floor and killing her then the teller of the story getting insulted by another drow saying that the spider queen will torture the teller endlessly and the teller saying that lolth has no sense of humor vhaerun on the other hand and then the teller is cut down for his blashphemous comments. The next one is another tavern patron mentioning ghaunader and vhaerun and also talking about eilistraee saying how she is a good drow goddes who seeks to lead the drow back to the light. The last one is when a lolth cleric demands that you go to the are that you killed the beholder in and destroy a cult of ghaunader that has set up there (which is extremely stupid of them to stay out in the open and shout cries to ghaunander the second they see another dark elf).
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...and so the continued idiotcy of Bioware continues. ;)
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:lol:
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Those encounters were handled poorly. I think I understand why though, not every player would even know of Vhaerun and Ghaunaduar if they designed Ust Natha exactly how Lloth would want it.
I think that cult of Ghaunaduar encounter was probably an afterthought and they didn't have anywhere else to put them.
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I would like to remind everyone to also check out what is said in the mod. Case in point is the new interjection between Solaufein and the mage drow outside Demin's home which suggests the mage was Sola's teacher. Nothing is said if the arcane magic was taught in private or in public (as I recall) so we can assume the mage taught Sola in private.
I don't mean to sound like a nag or evil or whatever, but we're in the postion to change our dialogous and our writing, writing that's already placed in the mod cannot.
While I'd like to keep it as FR-correct as possible, there are other people who have contriubted to this Mod and Wes has aprroved of these interjections. We will respect the creatvity of other people and try to incorperate everyone who's contributed to the Mod. It's our job to mold our writing to fit what is said in the mod to semi-FR canon, or at the very least Bioware FR canon.
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Sorry sphira did not know that when I had sola in the party he never spoke to the mage.
[!--EDIT|adam_2112|Mar 14 2003, 11:32 PM--]
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It's all right. It's a new addition. Just wanted to remind everyone. I hope I didn't sound too much like a Nazi Bitch. :D I apologize for that.
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Sola and Phaere Relationship outline.
Compiled by Tsuru and Sphira
This time lines only goes over the events that happened between Solaufein and Phaere and quite a bit of it is
pure speculation. It's been estimated that Solaufein is 140 (the drow equivalent of 26) and Phaere is 115 (the equivalent of 21). Because of the situation on the education both received and when they received it, this is not a childhood romance or a school based romance.
The only reason why Phaere is younger is due to the fact she didn't strike one as being 'mature' but rather as someone just stepping into their career, intelligent and ambitious but otherwise too trusting and doesn't quite realize their personal limits. I am not using FR years because I don't have that reference available. The years are posted until the PC enters Ust Natha.
Again, I repeat. This has nothing to do with Solaufein's life before Phaere. Who he was or where he was from or what sort of schooling did he have or how he found Lady E is not discussed. This is just an outline.
And uhm.... be gentle? We're fragile.
16 years ago- We assumed that Phaere was a favored child of her father thus allowing her not to be as corrupted as her sisters or other female drow, her father might of protected her enough from Ardulace and dotted on Phaere, giving her little reason to be aggressive as most drow though she's still ambitious. For unrelated reasons Ardulace turns Phaere's father into a drider and Phaere knows she lost some form of protection.
15- A few months later Ardulace starts preparing a war on another house and offers alliance with the 'un-named but it's looking like Eilservs' house and Solaufein becomes the go between. Despana and 'Un-named' form the alliance and it becomes somewhat apparent Ardulace shows great interest in Solaufein. Phaere has too and obverses her mother's interest and performs one of her first aggressive acts, claming Solaufein before her mother gets a chance. Adulace is surprised but so pleased that Phaere's showing initiative she let's it slide. (Tho we wouldn't be a bit shocked Ardulace doesn't have her way with Sola, behind Phaere's back.)
14- While the young couple are charmed and slowly falling in love with each other, the House war goes on. Ardulace notices her daughter's growing affections to Solaufein but puts up with it because of the Aliance and Solaufein's skill in battle. Rumors state he uses magic but Adulace chooses to ignore it.
9- The war between Despana and 'Un-named" alliance aganist the 'other' house ends with Despana and 'Un-named' growing in promidance. Solaufein becomes head of the fighter's guild due to his new house's standing. Yet it's rather obvious how Solaufein and Phaere feel for each other and one of Phaere's younger siblings starts quipping about it in public. Ardulace to save face decides to discipline her daughter into a true drow. She calls the Handmaidens and Phaere is tortured and becomes the ambitious woman we see in the game. Due to Solaufein's high rank, the new prestige Despana gains, Ardulace doesn't request that Solaufein should be turned into a drider. Though some suggest she leaves him alone for more personal reasons. She encourages animosity between Phaere and Solaufein to keep their hate focused on the other rather than on her. Phaere kills her quipping sister.
8 to 4 - Ardulace and other matrons meets with Irenicus. It's not clear if Ardulace knows of Irenicus' attempt against the Tree of Life. Obviously she has to know -something- if she agrees to work with an outsider who knows how to defeat the elves. Solaufein finds religion*.
2 - Ardulace and other matron mothers are advised to prepare for war by Irenicus who sets about tracking/capturing the PC.
1 - Start of Elven-Drow war.
0 - Ardulace arranges to steal the silver dragon eggs in plans to 'aid' Irenicus with the war on the surface elves or perhaps backstab Irenicus and claim the elven war as her own for Lloth's favor. Phaere is kidnapped and Solaufein is assigned to retrieve her with the help of a group of rag tag forgien drow and their rather ambiguous leader.
Of course, some of these details the PC nor Solaufein would know. I added them to help things out for us writers.
[!--EDIT|Sphira|Mar 15 2003, 01:24 AM--]
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It's all right. It's a new addition. Just wanted to remind everyone. I hope I didn't sound too much like a Nazi Bitch. :D I apologize for that.
Nonsense sphira no need to apologize you were just stating the subject was already explained.
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Great job on the background story!
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I think we did pretty well for just tossing ideas about for an hour or so, if I do say so myself :)
I can't believe this vocal crew isn't commenting here. And after Sphira and I slaved over a hot AIM stove to cook this up *martyred sigh*
*giggle*
[!--EDIT|Tsuru|Mar 15 2003, 03:25 AM--]
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Aye, tis a very good job, though I don't see much of that 'pornt' in there Tsuru!!
:lol:
*hides!*
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Aye, tis a very good job, though I don't see much of that 'pornt' in there Tsuru!!
:lol:
*hides!*
*sends off an Ama-seeking thwacking missile and dances off happily* :D
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Aye, tis a very good job, though I don't see much of that 'pornt' in there Tsuru!!
:lol:
*hides!*
*sends off an Ama-seeking thwacking missile and dances off happily* :D
Copy cat. :P
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*bounces in to turn this back to topic* Anyone else have any thoughts on the back story? :D
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I don't have any suggestions right now, but maybe we could use some more information about the circumstances of Phaere's capture by the Illithids. Possibly this could have happened at some point when Solaufein was supposed to be protecting her, or her change in attitude had made him request a transfer from her guard detail or something.
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Thanks for the suggestion Dash! :D
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Solaufein is son of second powerful house of Ust-Natha. This is clearly mentioned in game.
Phaere could be a former Eilistreaee follewer. Infact maybe she converted sola since sola like drizzt did not like drow ways.
But after torture, Phaere lost her soul so to speak. So matron mother extreme measure does have a real cause. Blasphemy against Loth, Sola's antognonist powerful house, Phaere and he are together... very dangerous
So her death is hard to Sola. 1 he lost a person who made him what he is now to the tortures and to the death and she was a formal lover.
Speculation needed: How Phaere or Sola are introduced to Lady Silverhair's religion?
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thats interesting. the fact that pheare was solas' mentor would reinforce the feeling of regret he might have.
btw kosand, your sig is a bit flashy don't you think?
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I am sorry my friend. I am not a native speaker. What do u mean by that? Flashy I mean. Is it against FWstudios' forum rules of conduct? If so I can delete it. I did not have any problems with safe forums in so far.
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it was just a personnal comment. it only involves me. what is your native language?
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Actually it is made by one of my dear friends so it has sentimental value.
I speak turkish, I am turk and u?
btw pleased to meet u cursed one.
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Welcome, Kozand :) We're always happy to have new input here.
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just had a thought. if being a worshiper of Eilistreaee was a reason that pheare was tortured, it could mean that her romance with our drow could have been kept a secret. it would give sola some hope of reuniting with her, hence the saddness (nothing hurts more than a "could be"). + it wouln't tarish his image within the ust natha (am starting to remember that name).
i would go with this version. all we have to see if it doesn't imply too many changes dialogue wise and if its conseivable. i will leave that to the experts
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I have a problem with the idea of Phaere being a worshipper of Eilistraae in that requires that Matron Mother Ardulace be the most inept, inattentive Matron Mother in all drow history. Daughters of Matron Mothers are expected, and rigorously trained, to be priestesses of Lolth if they are to be priestesses at all. If Phaere had, incredibly, been a priestess of Eilistraae instead, then, once detected, she'd have been killed - quickly and very quietly. Any publicity about her apostasy would have fatally weakened Ardulace's position as Matron Mother, both among the other houses and, worse, among her own non-apostate daughters.
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agreed. this would make Sola seem more humane. as a drow it is normal. I mean he reconsiders his past when he joins to party even his brooding mod is so true neutral and while he discovers his goodness Silverhair rewards him with blade or moonbeam.
But old mentor/worshipper of Eilistreaee Pheare would make some sense even could explain Sola's brooding on her memory. A hint of his humane nature and through his memories he reshapes his good nature.
What about this?
Sola believes Eilistreaee but he is true neutral, but when he gains moonbeam spell or the blade his alignment can shift to chaotic good!
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@ hendryks: if you consider pheare as an only daughter, does it seem more plausible?
[!--EDIT|thecursed|Mar 17 2003, 11:34 PM--]
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@ hendryks: if you consider pheare as an only daughter, does it seem more plausible?
Well, it would be but she, herself, says she isn't. She has a dialogue block saying that she has "many younger sisters scheming for my position. The more capable, both older and younger, I have already poisoned or murdered as necessary."
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if she wasn't at first she could have become after some time. what if her mother saw that she was the only one strong enough to inherite her place. when pheare turned to lady E, Ardulance hid the truth and made sure she would never do it again. all who knew were killed, including the sister that denounced her (just an idea), exept for sola (for reasons i leave to others to come up with)
[!--EDIT|thecursed|Mar 18 2003, 12:17 AM--]
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U can be right. what about this? Phaere was about to renounce Lolth. Yes Sola is the single worshiper and was about to convert her and matron mother intervenes, tortures her. It would still explain Sola's brooding memories and reconsiderations about Phaere after he joins party.
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no no no. phear is the one that converted Sola. not the other way around. according to you!
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in case of Phaere be Lady E mentor of Sola, Sola would survive even while matron mother was raging. Because he is allied with a powerful house. Now this would imply he is an outcast or disfavored by his native house. Since he is not evil -like Drizzt.
Maybe Sola was about to be eleminated by his native house because powerful Ardulace wanted it and because he was not evil but of course nobody had known he was Lady E worshiper (he would be executed immediately however much he be a skilled fighter. Infact this would compel houses to execute him since they would become afraid of his fighter skills). But this would mean submission. So Sola's house allowed him to escape and while Irenicus enticed Suldenessalar war aproaching, he used this opportunity, he couldn't flee because surface attacks meant drow patrols, but Ardulace was concentrating on war and Sola became a new member of second powerful house of Ust Natha! Clever move, since Phaere says "if u were not allied with a powerful house..." -in tavern.
My this suggestion can be implemented to aforementioned speculation:
"U can be right. what about this? Phaere was about to renounce Lolth. Yes Sola is the single worshiper and was about to convert her and matron mother intervenes, tortures her. It would still explain Sola's brooding memories and reconsiderations about Phaere after he joins party."
[!--EDIT|kozand|Mar 18 2003, 04:37 AM--]
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hahaha! Take it easy. I am trying to please everyone! Actually these 2 versions can help to explain his brooding Pheare memories.
Either Phaere was Sola's mentor
or she was about to be converted by Sola and had began to give up drow ways because of her love (this would also explain why she says Sola she had killed many sisters). Then tortures come and she returns to drow ways again. Sola's good Phaere short interlude is replaced by return to the corruption. Actually this second option sounds more tragic. The rest is explained in my previous post. I mean how Sola allied with a powerful house and all.
[!--EDIT|kozand|Mar 18 2003, 04:35 AM--]
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good ideas. tsuru?
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I'll focus on it when I have time to do more than fly through, hon, I'm just taking quick breathers here :)
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sure thing
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I hope I did not confuse u Tsuru!
Really I am novelizing BG series as I told before and it is my job to think this thru however it might be my own version.
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I hope I did not confuse u Tsuru!
Not at all, Kozand, it's just that I'm working right now :) I tend to fly through during the work day just for breaks
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Welcome Tsuru. I just saw your post. Sorry for not replying earlier. I have been inpolite I know.
Thanks for warm welcome. :D
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Where are u from my friend? US?
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belgium (better ask in soo..)
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Who? U or Tsuru? Oh don't mind me it is 1:41 am here afterall lol! :lol:
[!--EDIT|kozand|Mar 18 2003, 04:49 AM--]
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I'm in Phoenix..
Feel free to join the Sooo thread, that's where we keep off topic stuff, or try to :)
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K.
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I'm in Ventura, CA.
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*smacks convo back on topic* All intresting non related chat designated to 'Sooo...'!
*coughs*
While the idea of Phaere being his mentor with Lady E crossed my mind in the early planning stages about Sola’s past, there’s one huge flaw in that idea.
Do you think Solaufein would be living if Phaere had any idea Solaufein did not worship Lolth? Nothing could save him if that was the case.
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*nods*
It's a great idea...it has some marvelous roleplaying possibilities...but it wouldn't work.
Once Phaere had been taken by the Handmaidens, she would want to do anything to return to Lloth's favor. Betraying as many worshippers of Eilistraee as possible would definitely accomplish this goal.
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Sola would have been long gone if she'd had that ammunition against him, even his House couldn't have saved him and probably wouldn't have wanted to in any case.
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True enough!
Ah well it was good while it lasted.
Unless... Phaere lost some of her memories while she was tortured. Oh how tragic! Ok! Ok! Too forced I know. Sorry for wasting your time. :P
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True enough!
Ah well it was good while it lasted.
Unless... Phaere lost some of her memories while she was tortured. Oh how tragic! Ok! Ok! Too forced I know. Sorry for wasting your time. :P
Nothing that inspires thought is a waste of time.
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beat me to it!!
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Thanks. I am trying to do my best since I novelize these series and u are a valuable source of information and creative ideas. If I will use your opinions I will mention your names in credits! :)
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Sola-Phaere reworked
a) In case of Phaere simply loved him, Sola would survive even while matron mother was raging. Because he is allied with a powerful house. Now this would imply he is an outcast or disfavored by his native house. Since he is not evil -like Drizzt.
B) Maybe Sola was about to be eleminated by his native house because powerful Ardulace wanted it and because he was not so evil but of course nobody had known he was Lady E worshiper, not even Phaere had known his alliences (he would be executed immediately however much he be a skilled fighter. Infact this would compel houses to execute him since they would become afraid of his fighter skills). But this would mean submission. So Sola's house allowed him to escape and while Irenicus enticed Suldenessalar war aproaching, he used this opportunity, he couldn't flee because surface attacks meant drow patrols, but Ardulace was concentrating on war and Sola became a new member of second powerful house of Ust Natha! Clever move, since Phaere says "if u were not allied with a powerful house..." -in tavern.
My this suggestion can be implemented to aforementioned speculation:
c) Phaere was about to renounce Lolth not because she knew Sola does not worship Lolth but her love compelled her to do so. Sola did not ask her openly but her love had changed her temporarily. Phaere had become true neutral instead of chaotic evil and due to alignment change she could not had met required Drow Priestess criteria at that time. The loss of her powerful daughter was hard for Ardulace even more so just because she needed favor of Lolth to make war on elves. Yes Sola is the single worshiper and was about to convert her and matron mother intervenes, tortures her. It would still explain Sola's brooding memories and reconsiderations about Phaere after he joins party.
Sola did not have enough time to convert her and he did not have time to tell her his true belief. This saved his life (reread a and b ).
Yes Phaere, his native house, his new powerful house and Matron Ardulace did not know he worships Lady E. But a, b and c could be still consistent and valid.
And another ramification, Phaere was suspecting he could be a Lady Silverhair worshipper. But this was an outrage and she did not have substantial proof. Yes it would be a wise move to get rid of her past, also weakening a rival house and Sola's native house was not so powerful to resist House of Despana afterall. Infact this is why they had supported Phaere-Sola love -in order to become allies of Despanas. And Matron Ardulace did not want this even if Sola-Phaere love would be not geniune. This would weaken matron's position in the city.
But war with surface elves was about to begin, she could not have risked an emmity even with a weaker house lest she could not have mustered whole city as one big army. Meanwhile, after losing Phaere, Sola was not useful for his native house. His house would not want to risk a war with House of Despana in new future. So they wanted to get rid of this not so evil Sola without being asked by Ardulace so Ardulace would not threaten them in future. But killing Sola openly would be a sign of weakness and preserving Sola's life would be preserving a potential renegade enemy of House of Despana. So they allowed him to go and become member of one of the powerful houses of Ust-Natha. This house accepted Sola because through Phaere he knew inner Despana politics.
Later Phaere got captured by illithids. This was an oppontunity for Matron Ardulace. She wanted to control Sola and eventually kill him in action, without causing any fuss. An open assanitaion would be an open emmity with his new powerful house and with his native house to a certain degree. But Sola is a well known skilled fighter mage and thru Phaere's influence he had become head of male fighter society. In order to weaken both houses Ardulace asked Sola to help Phaere. Afterall and while war was looming how one could refuse to aid her? And Sola's new house was planing to obtain a favor from Despana's in future. So they forced Sola to personally help and Sola, in order not lose his barely found new secure position, could not do anything but help and at that time he still loved Phaere. And Phaere, after being rescued, has been urged by her mother to kill Sola secretly to prove her newly strengthened allience with Lolth. Phaere was eager to kill him to get rid of her past once and for all and to survive her mother's wrath so...
enough intrigue for drow hm?
And while Sola broods on her past he can tell PC these plots and maybe thru speaking PC he may become aware of lose plot ends which they had evaded him during all that war and while he was still angry for Phaere and loving her anyway. Besides maybe Sola began to hate Phaere truely by reacting her plots. How she was using party, trying to kill gnomes, manipulating Sola during beholder event and finally eggs.... This could be the very begining of Sola's affection felt toward PC.
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*wistles* you've been busy!! one ting i need explained: solas' attraction to the pc is due to the pc saving him? considering the resoursfullness of the drow, he could have escaped. don't forget he was expecting an assassination.
[!--EDIT|thecursed|Mar 19 2003, 05:13 PM--]
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Verry good point friend!
Infact it is but ever considered why? While Solaufein had begun hating Phaere and while his life was in peril because of Ardulace's schemes he finds this PC. A very atractive drow avatar at first, beautiful damn sexy drow. Then he learns she is not drow and at that instant drow illusion is dispelled in his eyes only and saw this very sexy human or whatever PC. And for a while, before offering his service to PC he compares drow avatar PC and real PC so to speak and this is further atractive and mysterious. Please exploit this, he did not know what PC looked liked at first after all! Maybe modifying Sola pwafi cloak conversation and adding a line like "Wow your real self is more fair I... I did not know..." would be good! :D
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this bring up a new question: how does sola recognise the PC topside? it is not until he joins the party that he learns of avalons' ploy.
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In ver 9.5 at least he meets you just outside Ust Natha. If you let him join there, he goes with you to Adalon's lair and sees the illusion dispelled, so no problem there.
It's if you just tell him to meet you topside when meeting him outside of Ust Natha that there's a gap, although if he's keeping an eye on Elhan's camp, he'll note the interrogation and put two and two together.
Btw, if Sola does accompany you to Adalon's lair, I'd think she might have something to say about the non-illusory drow in front of her.
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Hrm... one would think Solaufein falls in love with the PC for the PC's mind and/or their heart. Notably, the one PC I use that romances Sola has the grand Charsima stat of 8, while her intellgence and wisdom scores are 19 and 17, respectively. (Her low charsima is attriubted to the fact she's a loner and doesn't like small talk.)
kozand, I'll take a better look at your suggestions when I can later on today. :)
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Of course Sphira. :)
Besides...
1 We should create general falling in love circumstences because everybody has a different PC, different stats, class, race, even gender and... a different PC concept.
2 I suggest this. As soon as Solaufein learns PC is a surfacer (when he gives his pwafi to PC) PC drow illusion dispelled for Sola's eyes only.
3 Yes Sphira, Sola should fall in love with PC's mind as u say. Very good point. Because Sola is a brooding philosopher not a Casanova ok. But consider this avatar illusion dispelled possibility. There is no need for Sola spying Adalon's lair while party avatars restored. And it would add a mystical element. He suddenly sees PC with his own eyes. His perception changes: "So this is how u like but u are even more wonderful in my eyes."
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we could have sola spying on the group, and noticing the change in adalons lair. but he'd have to be good to sneek past a dragon...
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That is a possibility yes. Detective Sola.
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Well, while I do like the idea of the Ilithids being a way to assinsate Solaufein and Phaere was about to renouce Lolth... I've noticed a few things....
A] If Solaufein was ousted from his house and adopted into a new one, would he still be able to hold onto the male fighter's guild leader (notably reserved for sons of Matron Mothers)? If he got that postion after Phaere turned, would it still be possible for him to even reach that postion?
B] Why didn't his house kill him out right? If that one drow is killed by his own mother because he killed a well trained slave (when you first enter the city), then Solaufein certianlly will. He's strong but the Handmaidens or Matron of his household should be stronger.
I'm really sorry to even have these questions because you worked hard and came up with good ideas. :(
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True enough - if Sola had done something that offended the Matron of his own house. If the offense was only to Despana, then keeping him alive and even promoting him would be essential to his house; to kill him would be a symbolic submission to Despana.
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A] If Solaufein was ousted from his house and adopted into a new one, would he still be able to hold onto the male fighter's guild leader (notably reserved for sons of Matron Mothers)? If he got that postion after Phaere turned, would it still be possible for him to even reach that postion?
Did Ardulace actually have any sons? Could be Sola was allowed to take and hold the position, not just because he was the most qualified, but that there were none in Despana qualified for the job. Possibly he was able to keep the job through a succession of trials by combat whenever someone felt uppity enough to make a play for his job.
B] Why didn't his house kill him out right? If that one drow is killed by his own mother because he killed a well trained slave (when you first enter the city), then Solaufein certianlly will. He's strong but the Handmaidens or Matron of his household should be stronger.
Firstly Sola represents a much more forbiddible challenge than that one drow, secondly but of equal importance he's also an asset alive. Although as you suggest Leader of the Male Fighter's Guild, might be an inherited position, he'd be hard to replace, and would seem to all outward appearances to be toe-ing the line.
[!--EDIT|Dashael|Mar 20 2003, 11:00 AM--]
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I give your answers right away. I re-quote some of my earlier posts' sentences here.
Re-Reworked!
WHY SOLA IS NOT KILLED WHILE HE WAS MEMBER OF HIS NATIVE HOUSE AND WHY SOLA SURVIVED WHILE HE WAS MEMBER OF HIS NEW POWERFUL HOUSE AND WHY SOLA RETAINED HIS RANK AND POSITION ALL THE WHILE?
And another ramification, Phaere was suspecting he could be a Lady Silverhair worshipper. But this was an outrage and she did not have substantial proof. Yes it would be a wise move to get rid of her past, also weakening a rival house and Sola's native house was not so powerful to resist House of Despana afterall. Infact this is why they had supported Phaere-Sola love -in order to become allies of Despanas. And as soon as Sola's influence over Phaere became obvious (not the otherwise) Matron Ardulace did not want Sola-Phaere love blossom even if said love was not geniune. It was obvious Sola was controlling Phaere but Matron had hoped Phaere would control Sola and his native house. So allowing Phare loves Sola would weaken matron's position in the city.
"But this would mean submission (killing Sola). So Sola's house allowed him to escape and while Irenicus enticed Suldenessalar war aproaching, he used this opportunity, he couldn't flee because surface attacks meant drow patrols, but Ardulace was concentrating on war and Sola became a new member of second powerful house of Ust Natha! Clever move, since Phaere says "if u were not allied with a powerful house..." -in tavern."
But war with surface elves was about to begin, Ardulace could not have risked an emmity even with a weaker house lest she could not have mustered whole city as one big army. Meanwhile, after losing Phaere, Sola was not useful for his native house. His house would not want to risk a war with House of Despana in new future. So they wanted to get rid of this already not so evil Sola without being asked by Ardulace so Ardulace would not threaten them in future. But killing Sola openly would be a sign of weakness and preserving Sola's life would be preserving a potential renegade enemy of House of Despana. So they allowed him to go and become member of one of the powerful houses of Ust-Natha. This house accepted Sola because through Phaere he knew inner Despana politics. Meanwhile Ardulace partially achived her goal even before she asked to be done by Sola's native house. Sola and Phaere got seperated and at the same time Sola left his native house. But something unexpected happened: Ardulace hoped to control Sola by forcefully admiting him into her house and when new demon would be summoned she would get rid of him and make demon army commander in his place. But Sola persuaded a powerful rival house -all too willing to rival Ardulace- and became of said house's member. Therefore Ardulace is forced to plot another demise for Sola. Killing him outright was NOT possible anymore and now Sola was out of her and his native house's control.
"Later Phaere got captured by illithids. This was an oppontunity for Matron Ardulace. She wanted to control Sola and eventually kill him in action, without causing any fuss (remember how Sola told party not to kill him accidentally while they were preparing to kill that beholder). And in order to rescue Phaere she needed Sola be alive! Besides an open assasination would be an open emmity with his new powerful house and with his native house to a certain degree. But Sola is a well known skilled fighter mage and thru Phaere's influence he had preserved his position as head of male fighter society. In order to weaken both houses Ardulace asked Sola to help Phaere. Afterall and while war was looming how one could refuse to aid her? And Sola's new house was planing to obtain a favor from Despana's in future (his new house forced him to help Despana unwillingly in order to indebt Ardulace to themselves) and commander of drow army must answer to ruling houses anyway! So they forced Sola to personally help and Sola, in order to not lose his barely found new secure position, could not do anything but help and at that time he still loved Phaere. And Phaere, after being rescued, has been urged by her mother to kill Sola secretly to prove her newly strengthened allience with Lolth. Phaere was eager to kill him to get rid of her past once and for all and to survive her mother's wrath so..."
results:
1 Sola is not killed OUTRIGHT by his family because his native house wanted to preserve him as a renegade outcast and a Despana antogonist. Killing him would have meant total submission to Despana will. But releasing him would be a soothing compromise given to house Despana and Sola would still be a pain in the ass of Despanas.
2 Ardulace would not risk an open civil war while she was about to make war on elves so she DID not insist on killing Sola. Besides Sola had became new member of a powerful house.
3 This new house adopted Sola as a son to weaken Ardulace further by keeping him alive.
4 Sola's fighter talents helped him to be accepted to his new house.
5 Sola was ALREADY head of male fighter society; even before he was 'strategically allowed to go his own way' by his native house. And this is why his exile meant a still soothing submission given to House Despana. His native house lost Sola, a political game figure as being head of male fighter society.
6 His new house wanted him because a) he knew Despana house via Phaere, B) he is a fighter mage, c) he was the head honcho of male fighter society at that time.
So:
i) Native house was unwilling to kill Sola just to refuse Ardulace's request.
ii) His native house hoped Sola would not fight against them in future because he is not killed by them and would be grateful even if only for strategical and political reasons.
iii) New powerful house did not kill Sola because it needed his talents, lore and position/rank. New house would prevent Phaere and Ardulace to strip Sola of his rank. And this would not have happened since even House Despana needed and army commander until they summon the new one: Lesser Demon Lord.
iv) Phaere did not have proof to prove Sola's guilt: Lady E worshipper.
v) Ardulace did not kill Sola. He needed him during war, at least until she would summon demon lord, Sola would be a good commander to continue to strike elves. Also killing Sola openly would cause dissent in rival houses now. Because every house would want to profit from any possible skirmish between House Despana, Sola's new powerful house (powerful enough to deter Ardulace killing him openly) and Sola's native house. Civil war would weaken Ardulace. Even Ardulace would not risk to fight both his native and new house at the same time just in order to get rid of Sola. Not even during peace time.
vi) Why Sola is not killed when he was member of his native house? Well, he was male fighter society's commander and valuable asset of his native house. He was Phaere's lover and at first Phaere used her influence to protect him. Ardulace was pleased at first until she knew Phaere's Lolth belief was faltering of course. Even Ardulace once thought Sola would be a great ally and a worthy husband for Phaere.
vii) Finally, Ardulace needed Sola to help party. Sola's guidence needed to guide and lead party in this unfamiliar territory since drow live in independent city states. Example: Gnome helmet quest.
result of result: Sola got his position as head honcho before Phaere relationship.
[!--EDIT|kozand|Mar 20 2003, 06:24 AM--]
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Thank u Dashael manl! Your second answer summerised my long post and your first answer is another very good cause for Sola to be alive. Though I think his new house and his position alone are enough to protect him.
Ardulace did not have subtantial proof or reason to kill him outright! What she would say? "I kill our best commander and member of second powerful house in time of war because my girl has fallen in love with him?" And wat about House of Despana's reputation then? House of a weak handmaiden called Phaere? No! Ardulace is forced to keep their love as secret as possible. At least she tried not to publicize it since Sola's native house knew this romance. And killing him while not violating traditions/rules would be to find somebody to challange him for being new head of male fighter society. No house would allow Ardulace to act at her whim. Simply for weakening her! So Ardulace bided her time to kill him secretly and for God's sake friends, Phaere tried to kill him at the end (pwafi cloak quest)!
No more inconsistency here.
And Sola is MUCH more valuable then a simple slave and an anonymous matron son. Actually I think all these slave and son killing sequences in BG2 are a bit exagerated. Even drow would not be so vain to destroy their own resources. But for the sake of consistency with official campaign we should take account such things for sure.
I thank everybody. Yes u criticise me but I come up with even better ideas! Your feedback is valuable! :lol: :)
Friends if u are confused please don't forget to re-read my post on 6th page of this thread. I slightly modified said post on my previous post on this page. But the post on the 6th page has some speculation which is not re-mentioned on this page. Combine my last and previous long posts and this time my suggestions are consistent.
[!--EDIT|kozand|Mar 20 2003, 06:42 AM--]
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Okay, working with lots of suggestions from kozan I've become up with a few things
1) His native house 'prostituted' Solaufein's fighting skills out for their protection. Only a few males would know that Solaufein knows magic. He was taught magic in secert due to his own curioisty. Perhaps few of the men at Sola's new house (do we have to make a name for this one too?) knew about his magic and put in a good word. Due to this alliance, Solaufein is safe as his house. However each house is located in Ust Natha.
2) Adulance did not kill Solaufein due to his protection and to twist him around further with his doomed relationship with Phaere. That's a much more suitable punishment than death and it keeps Phaere away from scheeming about her death in Adulace's mind.
3) Solaufein's postion was more or less to keep 'order' around the city, not to lead the attack of the elves unless if the drow were going to totally lose. They were already at war when the PC comes and if Solaufein lead troops on the surface, he wouldn't be there.
4) The demon is more or less there to kill Jon-Bon and to wipe out any other surface elves.
5) Phaere suspected Solaufein didn't worship Lolth but had no real way to kill with out true proof due to her rank. She wasn't a handmaiden yet nor matron mother.
6) Solaufein's native house did NOT want to have Solaufein killed, because if he dies, the alliance dies and they're pretty weak.
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Okay, working with lots of suggestions from kozan I've become up with a few things
1) His native house 'prostituted' Solaufein's fighting skills out for their protection. Only a few males would know that Solaufein knows magic. He was taught magic in secert due to his own curioisty. Perhaps few of the men at Sola's new house (do we have to make a name for this one too?) knew about his magic and put in a good word. Due to this alliance, Solaufein is safe as his house. However each house is located in Ust Natha. A) A NEW NAME FOR HIS NEW HOUSE YES. B) IN DROW SOCIETY WIZARDS ARE MALES THOUGH FIGHTER MAGES COULD BE A RARITY. AN INTERESTING, ORIGINAL SOLA TRAIT AND DROW MALE PAST. INGENOUS MY FRIEND!
2) Adulance did not kill Solaufein due to his protection and to twist him around further with his doomed relationship with Phaere. That's a much more suitable punishment than death and it keeps Phaere away from scheeming about her death in Adulace's mind. VERY GOOD IDEA CONGRATS!
3) Solaufein's postion was more or less to keep 'order' around the city, not to lead the attack of the elves unless if the drow were going to totally lose. They were already at war when the PC comes and if Solaufein lead troops on the surface, he wouldn't be there. HE WAS ORGANIZING BUT NOT LEADING SURFACE ATTACKS TOO. LOGISTICS ECT.
4) The demon is more or less there to kill Jon-Bon and to wipe out any other surface elves. BUT IT WOULD REPLACE SOLA ANYWAY SINCE THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR SOLA AND ARDULACE WOULD BE FREE TO KILL HIM. BESIDES THE REAL, MAIN BATTLE WOULD BEGIN AND THE HOUSES WOULD BE BUSY TO KILL ELVES FORGETTING SOLA AND SCHEMES.
5) Phaere suspected Solaufein didn't worship Lolth but had no real way to kill with out true proof due to her rank. She wasn't a handmaiden yet nor matron mother. INTERESTING SO U ARE SAYING PHAERE BECAME A HANDMAIDEN BY RECENTLY KILLING HER LAST RIVAL SISTER AND AFTER BEING TOTALLY CONVERTED TO LOLTH VIA TORTURE. GOOD POINT.
6) Solaufein's native house did NOT want to have Solaufein killed, because if he dies, the alliance dies and they're pretty weak. YUP! LIVING SOLA MEANS LIVING DESPANA ENEMY. KILLING HIM WOULD MEANT SUBMISSION.
[!--EDIT|kozand|Mar 20 2003, 06:59 AM--]
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Cool! ^_^ Thanks for clearning your suggestions up, too! Glad we're seeing eye to eye on stuff now! *gives a cookie to kozand in celebration!*
And I forgot about tatics. :rolleyes: Silly me. Thanks for reminding me. :)
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Bites his cookie, finds it delicious, thanks the fair lady, claps his hands cheerfully and offers some danish cake and turkish coffee.
:rolleyes: :) :P :lol: :D
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I can't wait to contribute dialogue writing now! I guess my english is enough.
Oh I get ahead of myself but I would love to! Please? :lol: :P :)
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Well, this has been a pet project in some respects for me, but perhaps we can work together? :)
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I would love to! I am professional translator. I speak turkish, english, italian and latin. I am translating DMG core rulebook in turkish! I can help u if u would but accept me! It is my job -I mean writing and all. Besides dear Sphira I am novelizing BG series so I am seriously involved with it. I wrote 2 volumes and a total of 900 pages already!
Any BG2 mod u can think of by starting Sola, I would like to help u. I love creating things!
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Cool! I should be working a lot more on it in a few days. I've got some work I need to do for college classes to get myself caught up. *sighs* Silly classes. :)
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Okay! U can e-mail or PM me anytime. I am here daily.
College.... I am philosophy graduate and I would love to return my university days. :lol:
good night or earlier morning since 4:23 am here! :P
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Well... hmm... I can't do too much until I get home from school around 5:00 PM eastern if I don't have homework.
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Whew! Reading the intricacies of Kozand's ideas, I'm struck that they are really set for a different medium. In a novel, the room for exposition and discovery is far greater than is available to banters for a computer game. So, as logical as the 'Sola-as-multiple-move-pawn-in-drow-politics' ideas might be, I'm thinking they might also be too complex to explain sufficiently to base any banters on it for the game.
I'd be delighted to be proven wrong here but I wouldn't want to try it myself.
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Well, not all of this infomation will be in the banters. Some of it the PC nor Sola should never know. The infomation that will be mentioned are
1) Mother A knowing that living would be a 'better' punishment than death for a little while.
2)Alliance stituation.
3) Phaere suspecting. (Only spectulation, nothing confirmed.)
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kozand and sphira= we are in good hands!
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Of course u are right Hendryk. I won't try to write an in-game Sola novel haha! Even though I am writing BG novels.
As our group chicka mentioned, only few ideas will be made known and many of them will be on speculation level.
There are several things which can help us though.
1) Newer WeiDU supports long NPC talks without PC reply. Example: Redemption Irenicus, Ascension Balthazar. It is done and done bugfree
2) PS:Torment Type PC started talks are possible. They can basically function like flirt packs but much of my optional content and Sphira's ideas could be put there.
This has advantages: a) Nobody will be overwhelmed by long talks since their timing will be based on their choice of force talking.
B) Such plot should be better not put in flirt packs or romance dialogues for keeping romance smoother, clear and clarified; for allowing in-depth Sola even if PC won't romance him. And not everybody would love so complex lovetalks. Not everybody is as crazy as I am!
c) Sola's special ability, item acquirement can be re-balanced. He has this powerful blade. I say what? Take his blade's continous stat bonuses away. Too cheesy and overpowered. Enable option (2). Give Sola draw upon holy might ability if proper PS:Torment type friendship only dialogue options are choosed. Making him understand Sola-Ardulace plot better can give him insight and holy wrath felt against evil drow and Ardulace hence DUHM ability. Basically it is "talk to Dakkon to get his stats raised" PS: Torment variation. But not permanent stat bonuses to balance Sola blade and Sola as an NPC. Currently Sola is too powerful even while Tactics mod installed.
So it may sound ambitious, but we may get them all! Elaborated plot, smooth romance, some plot-romance intrigue, balanced Sola abilities-toned down Tsuko-Ken (and potions of CON would be valuable at every character level), flirt pack and forced talk PS: Torment relation-friendship-DUHM.
Technically it is feasible. Because flirt pack, lovetalk, PS: Torment talk (DUHM), Blade-moonbeam-repulse undead globals will be different. They won't be encoded in one giant mod with so many variables to go awry. Each can be scripted seperately and each will be optional and based only to PC's reaction so it would allow greater customization for Sola based on player style. Writing dialogues can take time but I can handle it with your help. Because except flirt pack intimacy and Sola blade-moonbeam, nothing will be dependent on lovetalks and even non romance Sola could be improved via DUHM and Archyrissa fight is already encoded in Sola romance lovetalk.
Let's do it! Combine Sola-Kelsey-Imoen Romance-Imoen relationship and PS:Torment Dakkon Zeth in one package. Lets put a new standart for Romance Mods!
[!--EDIT|kozand|Mar 20 2003, 08:08 PM--]
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And a great deal, if not all of that is up to Wes, not us :)
What we're here in the Workshop for is to do the flirt pack, which Wes kindly put into my hands to coordinate and code, as well as come up with new dialogues and interjections that we workshop before sending to him for consideration.
And why we do it, mainly, is because we love our delicious drow, of course! :D
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And why we do it, mainly, is because we love our delicious drow, of course! :D
and some wonder why this board is mostly female! :D
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and some wonder why this board is mostly female! :D
At least we attract the very best of the males! :P ;)
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whao!!! some compliment there! you sure know haow to keep 'em!! ;)
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I see. Well that is all I got. If I will be asked to write dialogues I will do it. From now on, it is your call.
And thank u Tsuru. Even though I don't think it is directed to me, I liked your compliment.
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*kicks the FWS server and mutters*
Kozand, we love enthusiasm! It's just that for some things, it's totally up to Wes. He does appreciate contributions to dialogue and interjections for Sola and approves of the flirt pack :)
Feel free to post any dialogue you come up with in the Dialogues topic, the crew will be happy to tear it apart *grin
psst.. I do adore the evil men who seem to be attracted to this place ;)
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evil? like who? cursed one? I know I am not lol! :lol: on Am I? Kozynick and all?
"Am I evil? Yes I am?" Metallica.
would u like a cookie? Cookie monster on rampage lol!
[!--EDIT|kozand|Mar 21 2003, 04:03 AM--]
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With me, evil is a compliment *snicker*
*coughs and returns to regularly scheduled topic*
:D
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Ok. He returns to regular topic too.
I just asked Wes to permit me to make the additions I want. If he will permit me I would like to add those. If not I will contribute by doing whatver asked of me. And for that I am waiting for Sphira. I am telling u here because this is a team work, not my personal arena. I especially told him currently I am only allowed to contribute flirt-pack dialogues. No secret dealings here.
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*nudge* Sphira, we made any progress on this one? :)
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Not yet. Working on it soon. :)
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Not yet. Working on it soon. :)
Can't wait :) This is gonna be good!
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After screaming, yelling, crying, and beating on myself, this dialogue is ‘finally’ done. Suggestions made by kozand to keep a consistency with both planned dialogues are in italics. When I mean ‘final’, I mean the hard creative work is pretty much done, and of course Wes' alternations to make Solaufein sound like Sola. If there are grammatical errors, please notify me in PM. Thanks to Tsuru and Athena for moral support. :D
All comments not related to grammar are welcomed!
(Sighs). And I just forgot one more option, should I add a horribely shallow 'Ekk, you slept with men!? I'm leaving you!' option for the horribley shallow female PCs?
Solaufein-
{CharName}, I would like to talk to you in private. It's a subject that makes my heart ache even though it happened long ago... I'm even hesitant to speak to you about it.
- Of course. I listen with my heart and with an open mind. -]A
- If it's what I think it is... I did not mean to push you to it Solaufein if you feel it's too soon. -]B
-Solaufein-
A] I believe you are a bit curious to know about my life with Phaere, aren't you?
- Yes, very much so. I just want to understand what happened to you, I want to know more about you. -]D
- Not really. I only care about the now, however if you need to get this off your chest you know you have my ear. -]D
-Solaufein-
B] You do confuse me, {CharName}. You seemed so eager to hear what occurred between me Phaere...
- I am eager, but I don't want to pressure you. I realize that now. I am sorry... -]C
-Solaufein-
C] I see... I do not feel pressured. If I didn't wish to share my thoughts with you, I'd never ask. -] D
-Solaufein-
{If spoken to Solaufein before about his past} -] D
{If NOT spoken to Solaufein before about his past} -] D1
D] Before I go on, do you remember the time we spoke somewhat briefly about this. How I changed houses? I do not want to confuse you about this.
-Yes. So what house would you be considered under? -]E
- I remember. -]G
D1] Before I can tell you more between Phaere and I, I would like to clear something up. I was born under the rule of the House of Auvryndar and while it was powerful in Chas Need, it was not as strong in Ust Natha where I was born. My mother, who was head of this branch of the House of Auvyndar, decided to sell the skills of her children to other houses and managed to cast a geas on a few of the less 'honorable' houses. However I did not have to approach another house with my skills until after my falling out with Phaere. My mother quickly sold my skills off again I won the favor of Eilservs, a powerful house with weak sons. That's how I was able to stay the leader of the Fighter's Guild.
-So what house would you be considered under? -]E
-Please, go on. -]G
-Solaufein-
E] As of now? (He chuckles.) I'd suppose I would be an exile now; though it's by my own choice I left the underdark. But if... you had not come into my life, I would be considered Solaufein Eilservs, which roughly means in common 'Lands of the Depths'.
- Could I ask you what your name means, Solaufein? -] F
- (You nod and wait for him to go on with his story.) -]G
-Solaufein-
F] "Spider's eyes" is the more common translation of the name, the one I normally think of. A more eloquent translation would be "Deft Seer".
- Hmmm, considering the later I think your mother named you well, my love. Please, go on? -]G
-Solaufein-
G] I encountered Phaere personally for the first time during one of the meetings with Despana joint alliance for Auvyndar against a rival house. This was perhaps 15 or 16 years ago, not a very long time for drow or elves but it feels like it happened eons ago. We did not say much until I had curried Ardulace's favor, Phaere then approached me and took me into her bed. As I said, we began as bedmates before becoming lovers.
- Ardulace's favor? -] H
- I see. -] J
-Solaufein-
H] I was not loyal to Phaere the first three years of our acquaintance; nor was she though we began to fall in love for one another a year or so after meeting. Ardulace fancied me and being young and too ambitious to even feel guilty, I visited her bed often and I did enjoy being with females and other males as well... (He pauses, glancing at you for your reaction.)
- {If PC male} Solaufein, I -think- I noticed that sort of affection for both cases. (You chuckle.) We've talked about this. -] H1
- {If PC female} Men? (You're quiet for a moment, but nod.) I'm not shocked, but it doesn't matter. I love you no matter what... -]H3
-Solaufein-
H1] Actually, I did not want you to think badly of me because of my relationship with Ardulace, {CharName}.
- You were younger and it's just a memory now. Before I was with you, I was a bit loose myself and I didn't stick to just one sex. You're not the only experienced one in the party. (You grin.)-] H4
- That's in the past Solaufein, all I ask is to have some of your heart in the now. -] H3
H2] Removed
-Solaufein-
H3] I see that hesitancy in your eyes, ussta xukoth. Why do you think I call you that? You own all of my heart and I hunger for no one else.
- I have no doubts on that at all; I wasn't prepared to hear that Solaufein, that's all. I didn't mean to deter from your story, please, go on? -] J
-Solaufein-
H4] (Solaufein smiles slightly.) It baffles me that could I love someone so wicked minded as you.
- It's because I'm sexy, Solaufein. (You snicker.) Go on. -]J
- Yes, but I know you love me for my mind. I'm glad you love my body and soul as much as my mind. Now, let's hear the rest of the story. -] J
H5] Removed.
-Solaufein-
I] I must. (Solaufein answers in a determined voice.) -]M
-Solaufein-
J] During the first five years of the relationship between me and Phaere were protected due to the alliance between Despana and Auvyndar in a house war. I would also think my skills and my position as the Commander of the Fighter's Guild also kept our love safe. She was still idealistic, not 'good' by any sense, but she was fair-minded and wanted a better world for the drow. She told me when she was younger she was close to her father; I believe he was quite protective and affectionate to her. I also noticed that I never meet Ardulace's consort and I assumed he died. Before the torture, when the house war was over... words were said about Phaere and mine’s love.
- Solaufein... (You rub his arm in comfort.) -]K
-Solaufein-
K] One of her sister's, I think the first youngest after Phaere, complained loudly. She just became a handmaiden for Lolth while her sister Phaere had the training but didn't care. Ardulace finally decided to take action...
~ Solaufein ~
Phaere disappeared one day... and Ardulace spoke words to me that she would not let the love between Phaere and I grow or exist between us. I remember my horror, horror for Phaere and horror that I was about to be killed or turned into a drider. I cannot forget Ardulace's look... this look of cold triumph... she forced me to the floor and stood on me with her foot pressed against my neck, declaring that death or turning to a drider was too good for me. Her bark was worst than her bite... Ardulace would taunt me with death, but she believed that knowing what I had done to Phaere would be punishment enough for me.
- (You move closer to Solaufein, you notice his eyes are squeezed shut.) You don't have to go on... -] I
- (Unsure of what to do, you sit beside Solaufein as you notice his discomfort.) -] M
-Solaufein-
M] And Phaere's actual despise for me was the worst feelings I had ever had until recently... I.. I wore my mask from then on. I became more like the cold calculating man you saw... who I thought I would *always* be.
- Shhh... (You rub his chest in a comforting motion, resting your head against his neck.) I'm here... -] N
-Solaufein-
N] Being a worshipper of Eliastaree also began to help me, but I knew it could only help for so long. For nine long years I wore that mask, even when the war plans against the surface elves came about and slaves came into that city, I wore the mask. It was all I had to keep sane... I wanted no one else; I cared for nothing else but the battle and for my own life.
~ Solaufein ~
Then one day... this waela came into my life... a foreign drow who was a brat of a {woman/man}. Whose eyes always looked misplaced for a drow's because of their warmth...
~ Solaufein ~
(if remorseful) For their compassion...
(if practical) For their wisdom....
~
And that foolish child saved me from Phaere's wraith and my own despair... even though {he/she} wasn't truly a drow, {he/she} wormed {his/her} way into my heart, in my soul. (He brushes your check softly; his eyes are wet as he looks into yours.) And when I realized that, I never wanted {him/her} to let go...
- (You open your mouth, about to speak.) -] O
-Solaufein-
O] (Solaufein kisses your mouth softly.) No words, ussta xukoth. (He holds you close until he composes himself and you are both ready to go.) -end-
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*applause*
Um...you couldn't maybe....kinda....lend me your muse could you? ;)
Mine's being 'difficult'.
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Thank you!
*loans her Solaufein muse, free of charge* :D
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Yay! Hope I don't break this one too....
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He's a very relistant muse. :)
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That was beautiful...
*wants to borrow the muse next*
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kitty claps and spintwirldance...meow....
a couple of kitty imitation bunny hops....
great stuff!!! keep them coming....
its a little complicated, cause i have not read all the posts in this thread, but i hope you make it much more clear the machinations of the houses of the drow in the underdark...that would be especially facinating...
ohhhhh...purr...one request...this material is so good, can the pc have this dialog even if not in romance with sola???i really think this fleshes out more of the personality of sola and should still be included simply to provide a depth of character even if the pc chooses not to romance him...
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Kozand has a conversation like this for none romanceable PCs you look hard enough in dialougs. :)
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Thank u Sphira. Infact my purring friend u may check dialogue ideas thread.
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Well I think u should have that 'shallow' response. :)
I am even reluctant to call it shallow. Sometimes even complex-in depth people are not used to every aspects of life. Calling them shallow per definition maybe a bit unfair. PCs should be free to have options.
I am hetero man but I know most people are atracted to beauty, not gender and I believe people should be free to live their lives as lon as they are decent.
Enough. Back to the topic....
*re-reads Sphira's post.*
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hmmm it looks good enough so I have nothing to add this time. Good work Sphira!
On a side notice my dialogue does not check romance active so it will be triggered by PC anytime, romance or non romance.
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great work people!
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heh heh... if u wanna make it really confusing (and kind of improbable), you could say that Solaufein was originally a high elf.... maybe his village was raised when he was a mere child, but because of his tenacity to survive, one of the other drows hid him away and presented him to a drow merc (i don't think a priestess of Lloth would have even attempted this). The merc transformed the high elf into a drow with a permanent spell... and having Phaere be the one who eventually taught him the rules of drow etiquette (perhaps when he was in school... priestesses usually take much younger males for their lovers, so it makes sense).
I don't know... this is just a rough idea... and it could make it really confusing... but it would be interesting to see Solaufein discover this, and have his whole world that he's known shatter around him.
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Is it fact that Sola changed his house? Because I had another idea for his past...
I mean what profit would a small house have if one of their males becomes lover of one of the daughters of the leading house of the city? Remember that Drow society is quite different, there are no marriages to build alliances, males are just toys for the females. So the house would have nothing (maybe a bit less threatening from house Despana, if their are lucky...)
So I would say Solas house was one of the minor houses but built a strategic alliance with Despana to fight the former strongest house (now it is Despana, Solas house is now 2nd or something like that)
Both houses are still "allies" but both know that the other house will take every opportunity to weaken/destroy the other to become the strongest house/simply eliminate the concurrence.
In that period, Sola and Phaere fell in love, which Solas house at least tolerated (if not even supported) because it was a great opportunity to bring infamy over house Despana (something like "look, how the daughter of the strongest house of the city behaves, I doubt they even worship Lolth") while it would be no problem for themselves - Sola is just a male and doesnt knows it better, they would have him sacrificed if their plan would have suceeded.
So Ardulace had to do something, which she did.
Solaufein is a reminder of Phaeres (and therefore Despanas) shame, thus they protect him against Despana and present him every now and then to annoy house Despana... maybe thats why they made Solaufein become the leader of the male fighter society?
Urgs sorry for my bad english, but what do you think of that idea?
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ReiZe-- That's a really interesting idea, but I doubt Wes would use it...it would require some rewriting of Sola's dialogues and some suspension of disbelief.
Still, if you've ever thought about working on a mod (or perhaps you already are; if so I apologize; I'm not good at keeping up with all the mods in creation) then that could be a very cool idea for a mod with an original character.
Dread--As far as I know, it's not fact that Sola changed his house.
You also have some very cool ideas. :) I'm sorry to say that (last I knew) Sphira already submitted her dialogue to Wes, so I'm afraid your ideas are a bit late. :(
If Wes asks Sphira to revise her dialogue, or her potential history for Solaufein, I'll point out your post to her.
(And your English is pretty good. :) )
If either of you have any other ideas, please don't hesitate to post them...we can always use inspiration and fresh ideas around here. :)
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I haven't sent it in for final approval, actually. :D I do like Dread's idea too... it's much more simpler. I'm trying to remember why we had it so elaborate however... :blink:
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Oops, my mistake. *blushes*
I think it was so complicated because so many people were contributing ideas (you, Tsuru, kozand, Ama...) And while I like Dread's idea, too, I do encourage you to think carefully before you make any revisions, so we don't risk throwing off any dialogues being worked on/already written. :)
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(Sighs). And I just forgot one more option, should I add a horribely shallow 'Ekk, you slept with men!? I'm leaving you!' option for the horribley shallow female PCs?
Okay, my first post - though I have been lurking for a while now. *greets everyone*
I think you should include that option Sphira, even if nobody would not ever use it. Though even getting involved with a Drow shows such open-mindedness that small thing like that should not matter. But I am bit uncomfortable with dialogues that have only one available answer option for the PC.
Otherwise I like this dialogue a lot, great job!
-Meira
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*welcomes Meira*
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Konnichiwa, everyone! *waves*
Not got much to say, I must admit, but I do have one minor correction to make... (and I feel such a bitch for saying it) but the drow city Sola refers to is Chad Nesad, not the Chas Nese or whatever it was (my S.T. memory sucks).
Beyond that... wow! KAWAII!!!!!!!