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BG2 Completed Mods => Quest Pack => Topic started by: SimDing0™ on April 01, 2004, 03:00:59 PM

Title: Currently under development...
Post by: SimDing0™ on April 01, 2004, 03:00:59 PM
Something Kish came up with for expanding Brynnlaw. You will now be able to have an NPC you abandon in favour of Imoen smuggled back to the mainland via Calahan. (The player will also be able to return this way if he or she wishes.)
Additionally, it will be possible to save Caiya's life (rather than her cheesy death cutscene) and escape Brynnlaw with her.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: jester on April 01, 2004, 03:19:16 PM
Isn't it possible to just tell Imoen to beat it and meet you back in A.? Why smuggle her or anybody else back.  :o Isn't Caiya Sanik's girl you save from the house?? When does she die. Or is this all content of BoB? This is all so confusing.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: chaz58 on April 01, 2004, 03:32:01 PM
Can't remember who Caiya is, but as far as Imoen goes, if you want to pick her up (which you probably will, to prevent her missing out on even more XP) you have no choice but to abandon one of your current NPCs in Spellhold.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: jester on April 01, 2004, 03:36:56 PM
That would be exactly the argument why I would either not bring someone I had to abandon (or he/she misses out on the XP) or bring Yoshi and force-trade him in Spellhold. I never use her and I think I saw her back at the CC.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Kish on April 01, 2004, 03:46:32 PM
Isn't it possible to just tell Imoen to beat it and meet you back in A.?
That's rather--well, quite thoroughly--evil, since you have no IC way of knowing she can make it back alone, though the Underdark, without her soul.

I believe this will also include being able to send Imoen back with Calahan, right, Sim?
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: jester on April 01, 2004, 04:00:58 PM
Dang, you means my virtue gets hit by this??
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Caswallon on April 01, 2004, 04:02:03 PM
Caiya is that, err, girl-friend of Desharik, Saemon, and probably some other pirates as well... you're supposed to break into her house at night to get the horn for Saemon. She gets killed by Desharik when Saemon kidnaps his ship.

As for the Calahan parts - that poses some interesting story problems, though I'm sure you'll get them sorted out. :)
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: jester on April 01, 2004, 04:05:25 PM
I thought she was the  erm Festhall girl who doesn't get killed, because you rescue her. Now I also understand the whole thing, because this of course takes place after the house on the hill. :)
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: SimDing0™ on April 02, 2004, 08:46:48 AM
I believe this will also include being able to send Imoen back with Calahan, right, Sim?
Yup, Imoen can go back with Calahan too, and it seems fairly evil not to take advantage of this. Although some people will come along now and tell me otherwise.

As for the Calahan parts - that poses some interesting story problems, though I'm sure you'll get them sorted out. :)
What do you have in mind? I'm fairly sure everything's worked out, but I always seem to overlook something.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Caswallon on April 02, 2004, 10:00:52 AM
When the party meets Imoen, the way back to Brynnlaw is essentially barred, you have to pass through the Spellhold maze and the tests to reach Calahan. That still leaves you with a party of 7 to go through Spellhold, which I always considered the hardest part of Imoen's way back to Athkatla. Though other people might feel different about this...

If the party leaves Brynnlaw with Calahan, the Sahuagin encounter will take place anyway, I suppose? Somehow you'll have to get to the Underdark...

What do you do with Caiya after leaving Brynnlaw with her? If you don't include her as a recruitable NPC, she's doomed nonetheless during the Sahuagin raid; that is, if you don't rewrite the Brynnlaw - City of Caverns - Underdark sequence, or provide her with a similar means of escape as Saemon (Equal Rights for Players! We Demand Inter-Area-Teleport!).

That's what I can think of at the moment...
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: SimDing0™ on April 02, 2004, 10:05:43 AM
When the party meets Imoen, the way back to Brynnlaw is essentially barred, you have to pass through the Spellhold maze and the tests to reach Calahan. That still leaves you with a party of 7 to go through Spellhold, which I always considered the hardest part of Imoen's way back to Athkatla. Though other people might feel different about this...
Right, Spellhold isn't a particularly nice place. But then again, the way's not totally clear once you're out, given that Imoen would be stuck soulless, on a pirate-infested island, with no money and little opportunity for passage to the mainland.

Quote
If the party leaves Brynnlaw with Calahan, the Sahuagin encounter will take place anyway, I suppose? Somehow you'll have to get to the Underdark...
Yes. It will make sense, in a contrived sort of way.

Quote
What do you do with Caiya after leaving Brynnlaw with her? If you don't include her as a recruitable NPC, she's doomed nonetheless during the Sahuagin raid; that is, if you don't rewrite the Brynnlaw - City of Caverns - Underdark sequence, or provide her with a similar means of escape as Saemon (Equal Rights for Players! We Demand Inter-Area-Teleport!).
I'm not planning to include any new joinable NPCs, and yes, it's not like she's gonna have an easy ride straight back to Athkatla.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Shodan on April 02, 2004, 10:08:41 AM
Have Caiya stay in the Snivrlsajhsadg;alg city so that you know she's *save*. Add 1 small quest to it. She should be attacked by some Drow that want her as a slave. You'll have to safe to city and Caiya. Or you could sell her to the slave leader in Ust Natha ^_^
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: SimDing0™ on April 02, 2004, 10:11:36 AM
Kish's idea appealed to me, and was rather more sinister. And this has just raised a point, because I'm not sure how much of the quest outlines I should really be posting. Some people don't like spoilers, right?
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Caswallon on April 02, 2004, 10:31:48 AM
Right, Spellhold isn't a particularly nice place. But then again, the way's not totally clear once you're out, given that Imoen would be stuck soulless, on a pirate-infested island, with no money and little opportunity for passage to the mainland.
Hmm, okay. I find it harder to accept that she (or another NPC) makes it through Spellhold on her own, than imagining that I give her some gold to pay a smuggler to bring her back (pure imagination, I know).... Difference in perception, I suppose, and as it's your mod, not mine, I'll be silent now. :D

Quote
And this has just raised a point, because I'm not sure how much of the quest outlines I should really be posting. Some people don't like spoilers, right?
Avoiding spoilers is a Good Thing (TM), I think. :)
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Nesquaam on April 03, 2004, 05:33:25 AM
I let Imoen sort it out by herself. Not because I'm trully fiendish, but I can't take it to abandon an NPC in Spellhold.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Mongoose87 on April 03, 2004, 09:45:51 AM
Perhaps oe could ask Imoen to "wait until you've found asafe way out" and thencome backafter you've gone through the Bohdi thing and opend the doors with the minotor's horns.  She could kinda hang around your general area until you finish the tests.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: SimDing0™ on April 03, 2004, 09:49:16 AM
Right. She waits around until you've found safe passage out and secured a means of return to the mainland.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Kish on April 03, 2004, 11:18:44 AM
I let Imoen sort it out by herself. Not because I'm trully fiendish, but I can't take it to abandon an NPC in Spellhold.
Something stops you from taking a five-member party, or taking Yoshimo to Spellhold?  Imoen is not an NPC?
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Nesquaam on April 03, 2004, 02:37:05 PM
A always take 2 mages, a cleric and 2 fighters with me ( I'm mostly a thief). So then I have no room for her.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Ghreyfain on April 03, 2004, 03:00:26 PM
I let Imoen sort it out by herself. Not because I'm trully fiendish, but I can't take it to abandon an NPC in Spellhold.
Something stops you from taking a five-member party, or taking Yoshimo to Spellhold?  Imoen is not an NPC?

Besides, if it's the first time playing through the game, how would you know you need to leave a spot open?
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Alarielle on April 03, 2004, 03:28:11 PM
Quote

Besides, if it's the first time playing through the game, how would you know you need to leave a spot open?

Well exactly.  The only reason I knew was because my fiendish brother ruined the story for me right before I set sail.  Damn him...
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Ruben on April 05, 2004, 07:29:32 PM
Yeah but why should you be considered evil in game for the Physical Engines limitations. Not like your characters knows theirs this mystal divine limit preventing him from having more than 5 other party members. Like you tell all the people that you get "After I help you I want to help Imoen" I a think it would be just as Evil to abandon anyone else in Spell Hold.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: discharger12 on April 05, 2004, 07:51:50 PM
Yeah but why should you be considered evil in game for the Physical Engines limitations. Not like your characters knows theirs this mystal divine limit preventing him from having more than 5 other party members. Like you tell all the people that you get "After I help you I want to help Imoen" I a think it would be just as Evil to abandon anyone else in Spell Hold.

what?
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Ghreyfain on April 05, 2004, 08:17:02 PM
Yeah but why should you be considered evil in game for the Physical Engines limitations. Not like your characters knows theirs this mystal divine limit preventing him from having more than 5 other party members. Like you tell all the people that you get "After I help you I want to help Imoen" I a think it would be just as Evil to abandon anyone else in Spell Hold.

what?

1) BG2 only allows you to have 5 NPCs at one time.
2) The player knows this.
3) CHARNAME, the character, does NOT know this.
4) If CHARNAME, in-character, recruits 5 people to help find Imoen, should he be held responsible for the consequences of engine limitations he was unaware of?

Do you understand now?
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Nesquaam on April 08, 2004, 09:14:04 AM
I a think it would be just as Evil to abandon anyone else in Spell Hold.

That's just my point/dillema. Leaving Imoen in Spellhold or some other NPC.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Ruben on April 08, 2004, 06:05:25 PM
Hard to say. I just don't think you would be penalized for something that wouldn't be in the actual players knowledge.

On the other hand, leaving one of the women behind, over one of the Men, could be consider bad because your leaving a girl in a nest full of pirates. Not really a pretty picture. Were somone as Keldron, Korgan (he would probaly love it there anyway), Anomen (not that many people on the board actually care what happens to him) would have more of a chance as they probally would attracked alot less attention to themselves. (And before anyone attacks me over it. Yeah I know their is women Pirates, but any woman living in such a male dominated society as that, one slip up and you probally would be treated as any other slave they have aquired)
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Kish on April 08, 2004, 06:15:44 PM
Sim's going to make it possible to send someone back with Calahan.  And then, hopefully (hah!) we can all agree you should be penalized for leaving anyone there (except possibly one of the evil NPCs, the ones you don't get Virtue penalties for killing outright).
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Barren on April 08, 2004, 06:19:01 PM
Will you be able to tell Ginia that you met her brother? Or tell Ason that you met his sister?
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Senka on April 15, 2004, 06:14:25 AM
Quote
When the party meets Imoen, the way back to Brynnlaw is essentially barred, you have to pass through the Spellhold maze and the tests to reach Calahan. That still leaves you with a party of 7 to go through Spellhold
Sorry, I don't understand... If you can decide the prob
Really, I don't understand. If you could handle with this problem why you need Calahan?
 
Perhaps oe could ask Imoen to "wait until you've found asafe way out" and thencome backafter you've gone through the Bohdi thing and opend the doors with the minotor's horns.  She could kinda hang around your general area until you finish the tests.
But you cannot return in Asylum, right?
I'm so stupid I afraid...
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: neriana on April 15, 2004, 04:21:12 PM
Sim's going to make it possible to send someone back with Calahan.  And then, hopefully (hah!) we can all agree you should be penalized for leaving anyone there (except possibly one of the evil NPCs, the ones you don't get Virtue penalties for killing outright).

I think it's pretty evil to leave an ally in the depths of Spellhold no matter what their alignment is.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: discharger12 on April 15, 2004, 09:15:31 PM
Yeah but why should you be considered evil in game for the Physical Engines limitations. Not like your characters knows theirs this mystal divine limit preventing him from having more than 5 other party members. Like you tell all the people that you get "After I help you I want to help Imoen" I a think it would be just as Evil to abandon anyone else in Spell Hold.

what?

1) BG2 only allows you to have 5 NPCs at one time.
2) The player knows this.
3) CHARNAME, the character, does NOT know this.
4) If CHARNAME, in-character, recruits 5 people to help find Imoen, should he be held responsible for the consequences of engine limitations he was unaware of?

Do you understand now?

Heh, I barely remember posting that message since it was a week ago  :D

I do understand though  :)

@ 3)- I think it would be a bit wierd if CHARNAME knew he/she can only have 5 people in his party. He would defy you and say, "I can have as many people as I want in my party!" only to find that he/she can't. After this, CHARNAME would realize such things as white text floating in the air, and time suddenly stopping for long to short periods of time. Finally CHARNAME would notice that he/she has no control of what they are doing, and that words that he/she can't control are coming out of his/her mouth.. but no noice is made..

Woah.. did I go to far there? 
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: jester on April 16, 2004, 01:28:28 AM
@ 3)- I think it would be a bit wierd if CHARNAME knew he/she can only have 5 people in his party. He would defy you and say, "I can have as many people as I want in my party!" only to find that he/she can't. After this, CHARNAME would realize such things as white text floating in the air, and time suddenly stopping for long to short periods of time. Finally CHARNAME would notice that he/she has no control of what they are doing, and that words that he/she can't control are coming out of his/her mouth.. but no noice is made..

Woah.. did I go to far there? 

 :D :D :D

Just like my evil NPC wanted to have a decent rant with Korgan the other day about those d*** c**** and m*****f****** at the b****** just to find out it has been beeped out by sume strange godlike being unreachable to prayers after shipment of the game. :( I always had as many people in my party as I wanted, limiting my greedy wishes to 3 I must admit.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: rreinier on April 23, 2004, 03:27:43 PM
Quote
Besides, if it's the first time playing through the game, how would you know you need to leave a spot open?
Umm... Because the entire first part of the game revolves around getting Imoen out of Spellhold? Chances are that she might want to join your party  ;)
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Cybersquirt on April 24, 2004, 06:08:36 AM
No.  The first time I played I was glad that Yoshimo was a traitor as I didn't even think of it.  You get immersed in the game and don't think, and then you're stuck.

The game revolves around you and Irenicus.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Aristothenes on June 18, 2004, 07:41:29 AM
Quote from Ghreyfain:
@ 3)- I think it would be a bit wierd if CHARNAME knew he/she can only have 5 people in his party. He would defy you and say, "I can have as many people as I want in my party!" only to find that he/she can't. After this, CHARNAME would realize such things as white text floating in the air, and time suddenly stopping for long to short periods of time. Finally CHARNAME would notice that he/she has no control of what they are doing, and that words that he/she can't control are coming out of his/her mouth.. but no noice is made..

- Shades of Max Payne

Isn't leaving Caiya with the Svirfneblin a bad choice? 2 reasons:
 1. right next to Sahuagin
 2. right next to drow (unless you do the Genocide Cutter thing)
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Lord Kain on July 05, 2004, 02:06:10 PM
What about saving Sanik.

I think you should dump the idea of Calahan smuggling the PC and party out. He should simply say he can't smuggle  a party of armed people out  Smuggling out the exrta NPC is a good idea but having the party go on Calahans ship and strangly the Sahuagin still attack is kind of cheesy.

Calahan can simply say he can only smuggle out a few people safely.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: rreinier on July 05, 2004, 03:54:47 PM
Why would it be cheesy for Sahuagin to attack? Their attack on Saemon's ship was a coincidence too, why wouldn't they attack Calahan's ship?
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: SimDing0™ on July 05, 2004, 03:56:30 PM
The attack on Saemon's ship is due to the Githyanki not being to happy about the Silver Sword, as far as I know.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: rreinier on July 05, 2004, 03:59:41 PM
But the Githyanki attack is irrelevant. The Sahuagin didn't have a special reason to attack this particular ship, and it's their attack that sinks the ship.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: NiGHTMARE on July 05, 2004, 04:09:49 PM
During the time period BG2 is set in, the Sahaugin and other evil undersea races have begun raiding cities and attacking ships along the entire length of the Sword Coast, though AFAIK they curiously don't attack any coastal cities in Amn.  See Mel Odom's "Threat from the Sea" series of novels and the "Realms of the Deep" anthology for more info.

So anyway, let's pretend the attack is tied in with these events (who knows, maybe this was actually Bioware's intention?), making the attack on both ships entirely justified :).
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: mcruz on July 05, 2004, 04:50:31 PM
I always assumed that the Sahaugin attack was someow related to the whole prophecy of an outsider coming to save their city and for this reason they monitored the surface for signs of his/her coming........
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: rreinier on July 05, 2004, 04:55:56 PM
I thought that you were initially just a target to them, but when the undercurrent brought you alive and well to their city, they started to think you might be someone special...
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: mcruz on July 05, 2004, 05:06:55 PM
yeah it's not very clear (probably the Sahuagin attempted to board the ship for the usual reasons except that things got more complicated with the Githyanki being onboard as well) it just seems more plausible that the PC was brought to the Sahuagin city rather than by pure sheer luck
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Lord Kain on July 06, 2004, 02:19:18 PM
the most obvious reason is the Priestess saw the PC's party and realized she could use them to kill the King and put the prince into power. Why they attacked the ship in the first place is up in the air. Also by throwing in the idea that the smuggler can get the PC and party out kinda means Gina and her brother die because they went down with the ship.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: mcruz on July 06, 2004, 02:52:16 PM
the most obvious reason is the Priestess saw the PC's party and realized she could use them to kill the King and put the prince into power.

too bad she didn't foersee what the king would do after she "convinced" him that the PC was the one

Also by throwing in the idea that the smuggler can get the PC and party out kinda means Gina and her brother die because they went down with the ship.

Assuming the Sahuagin will attack any ship that the PC gets on....
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: rreinier on July 06, 2004, 04:09:56 PM
Well, if they don't, I don't see how the PC is going to reach the Underdark...
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Cybersquirt on July 06, 2004, 07:02:29 PM
But the Githyanki attack is irrelevant. The Sahuagin didn't have a special reason to attack this particular ship, and it's their attack that sinks the ship.
Er.. it could also be argued that had the Gith not been aboard, we could just take the Sahuagin out.

The way I always understood it: the Sahuagin attacked ships randomly, the Gith divined the Silver Sword aboard Saemon's ship and board first, right?  The only reason the PC is (later) saved by the Sahuagin is because s/he's The One (and if I could find the boarding dialogues, this might be made clearer).

edit: and, now that I think about it (the actual dialogue), I seem to remember a lot of floating text.  ::)  Where would that be found?
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Cybersquirt on July 06, 2004, 07:33:22 PM
Githyanki: The Githyanki demand! You have the relic of holies!
Saemon: Pardon? I am sorry, but I do not know what you are talking about. Speak clearly that I might understand.
Gith: Understand! We see all that you do! Say mon HaVaran, you have trespassed and taken what is not yours!
...
Gith: The Blade belonging to the Githyanki is aboard! Detection does not lie! All will perish for this insult!
...
Gith: Sahuagin?  I did not anticipate this.  Back to the ship!

(sahuagin, it appears, only speak with the overhead text)

[Then, in the Sahuagin city:]
What'er name: ...In good time, Feerlattiys.  Allow them to gain their bearings and discover why we have brought them here.  Otherwise, they may resort to hostilities.

Indeed.  Sekolah has spoken of these ones to us, so let us treat them not as prisoners for the banquet table.  Let us instead make them welcome.

I shall introduce myself to you.  I am Senityili, Royal High Priestess of Sekolah.  And you are in the City-of-Caverns, one of our most ancient places.

You are fortunate, surface dwellers.  In the normal course of things, creatures captured from the sun lands would be dinner for our plate.

This once, however, is different.  Sekolah has told of your coming in an ancient prophecy, and I have scryed that you are whom the Shark-Father speaks of.

The most exalted King Ixilthetocal calls for the presence of the prophesied ones, now, but there is time for you to ask questions if you have the desire.

...

We... Sahuagin, as you call us... have watched and waited from our temples here in the City.  The signs have come, surface <PRO_MANWOMAN>, and now you are here.

You have come... and the City-of-Caverns does, indeed, stand on the brink of destruction.  You will save us, as Sekolah has promised.

[So, there is nothing definitive in the dialogue.  Our journal entry doesn't add much:]

Journal entry:
The prophecy of Sekolah

Taken down into a city far below the ocean surface by the Sahuagin, I was greeted by High Priestess Senityili of the shark god Sekolah and told that I was intended for some higher purpose that Sekolah had fortold in a prophecy.

[I'm going with Nightmare on this, they're just randomly attacking ships]

Random guard: You are... the surface creatures.  I have fought many of your kind on raids to the surface shores.  The most exalted one has commanded your safety... for now.

Royal Sahuagin: They are nothing more than spurious beasts that have fallen into our lap.  We should sacrifice them and feast upon their meat!
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: rreinier on July 07, 2004, 02:25:07 AM
Well, according to those dialogues you were "taken" to their city, which suggests a concious action. Also, the Sahuagin knew of your coming beforehand, there were sighns that it would happen.
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: mcruz on July 07, 2004, 02:37:11 AM
Well, if they don't, I don't see how the PC is going to reach the Underdark...

There might be other ways to reach the Underdark (i.e there is an entrance where Elhan and the other elves are camped, the portal in Spellhold, etc)

Also, I'm not sure if I remember exactly but the idea of going with Saemon Haevarian (i.e stealing a ship from the Pirate Lord) was so that the PC and company would not have to go through the Underdark chasing Irenicus......so in terms of the story the only reasons for going to the Underdark would be to foil the plans of Irenicus' allies (i.e the drow) and to run into Elhan (with no way of avoiding this encounter).....


[I'm going with Nightmare on this, they're just randomly attacking ships]


Definitely it's safe to assume that the Sahuagin randomly attacked ships, but if the PC was to somehow secure another means of getting off Brynnlaw (i.e Calahan's ship or another ship) then the attack by the Sahuagin might not happen unless (a) the Sahuagin attacked all ships (b) the Sahuagin while randomly attacking ships were also vigilant as to some sign involving the prophecy (c) the PC is cursed or the Sahuagin are lucky  :D

of course it would be shame to miss out on the Sahuagin city and the Underdark........
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: rreinier on July 07, 2004, 04:32:46 AM
Quote
Definitely it's safe to assume that the Sahuagin randomly attacked ships, but if the PC was to somehow secure another means of getting off Brynnlaw (i.e Calahan's ship or another ship) then the attack by the Sahuagin might not happen unless (a) the Sahuagin attacked all ships (b) the Sahuagin while randomly attacking ships were also vigilant as to some sign involving the prophecy (c) the PC is cursed or the Sahuagin are lucky 

of course it would be shame to miss out on the Sahuagin city and the Underdark........
I disagree. By that logic, the Sahuagin are also very lucky because they manage to find Saemon's ship on every run through the game...

It's just a pure coincidence, story-internally, that the PC's ship gets attacked. The PC doesn't know that it's scripted to happen whichever route he takes...

Also, I think that skipping the entire Underdark is out of the question, since it's a chapter in the story all by itself. Entering the Underdark via the same way we exit it is also illogical, because there'd be no reason to enter it if we're already where we want to be (namely outside).
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: mcruz on July 07, 2004, 03:21:11 PM
which is exactly my point, while the Sahuagin attacks may be random in the actual game it is always programmed to happen so that's why it's weird  that you always get attacked (not that I mind of course, and one could say that this only happens once since reloading from a saved game is not the same as going with Saemon over and over again)

but yeah the attack on Saemon's ship by the Sahuagin was most likely a random attack, I'm just saying that because of its randomness then "if the PC got on another ship" then how likely is it that the Sahuagin will attack this ship too?? (after all going to Brynnlaw was Sahuagin-free......)  ;D

Also, I think that skipping the entire Underdark is out of the question, since it's a chapter in the story all by itself. Entering the Underdark via the same way we exit it is also illogical, because there'd be no reason to enter it if we're already where we want to be (namely outside).

I just think that if the PC chosed to go with Saemon.......then the PC probably planned either to go directly where Irenicus might have been going or back to Aran Linvail......and not to the Underdark (not that I'm against going there), I'm only saying that had the Sahuagin not attacked then who knows what would have happened....
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: rreinier on July 07, 2004, 04:19:20 PM
It's exactly my point that the PC never planned to go to the Underdark. Saemon promised to set him/her ashore close to Suldanessellar, since that was where we knew Jonaleth was going.

And it doesn't matter that the PC gets attacked no matter what. As you pointed out yourself, there is only one journey. By an preprogrammed extreme coincidence, the PC gets attacked on that journey.

To say that a PC can't get attacked every time is like saying "Why does Ellesime keep saying the Elves leaned from their mistake, when everytime I start a new game, I find that they cursed another Elf?"
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Necaradan on July 13, 2004, 06:53:38 PM
Why allow me to keep one extra NPC just for the duration of the Brynnlaw quests? The PC wouldn't know that there is going to be a chance to smuggle an NPC back so if he was going make room in the party for Imoen wouldn't he do it before leaving mainland?

Either way you still have to abanbon someone before entering spellhold....maybe you could make it so that Imoen or an abandoned NPC would follow you through spellhold as an ally...this idea is pretty dumb and I suspect would be bothersome to implement.

Hmm is it possible to smuggle Yoshimo back and then pick him up later as an NPC for TOB use? (on second thought I just remembered he will die from not fufilling his task anyway)

Ah who cares - If you build it, they will come...
Title: Re: Currently under development...
Post by: Xander77 on July 13, 2004, 09:16:55 PM
Hmm...

How about a Pirate attack?

As we remember, the reason you had no problems with them on the way to spellhold was because Saemon signaled them away.

Then the Shahuagin attack anyway, with pirate dialogue on how that's a common occurance lately.

If we feel like preserving the lives of the crew, what about a Shahuagin spell that carries you underwater?