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BG2 Completed Mods => Event Modding: Iron Modder and One-Day NPC => Topic started by: jcompton on December 11, 2007, 11:02:15 PM

Title: IM11 possible dates
Post by: jcompton on December 11, 2007, 11:02:15 PM
I'm thinking either March 16 or April 56. Any likely entrants have a particular problem or preference?
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: berelinde on December 12, 2007, 12:01:09 AM
No preference here.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: Ascension64 on December 12, 2007, 12:28:27 AM
It will be easier to get people living in areas where GMT > +5 jumping onto the Iron Modder bandwagon if you pick a Saturday rather than a Sunday for a 12 noon start time, so I would favour April 5.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: jcompton on December 12, 2007, 12:44:23 AM
Mmm. That was a typo, I'm afraid. Although we haven't tried a Saturday, I feel pretty confident that overall participation is going to be better on Sundays. I realize that this is an even bigger inconvenience for AsiaPac, but without some real proof that it would make a big difference, I'm sticking with Sundays.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: Ascension64 on December 12, 2007, 02:53:24 AM
You'll never find out, then.  ;) (I'd definitely be in if it was early Sunday morning AEST)
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: the bigg on December 12, 2007, 04:51:20 AM
As I've said in the post-IM9 debate, isn't it possible to figure out a way to make a "IM11" week, where somebody can request the theme when he has four hours of free time and then uploads the mod before four hours, recording the time taken in the process?
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: Deathsangel on December 12, 2007, 05:16:35 AM
I don't have an agenda that far ahead. Can't really say
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: SixOfSpades on December 12, 2007, 01:50:42 PM
Well, if we all had suffiicient faith in the honor system (and one doesn't even begin to learn how to mod without knowing that they'll never see a penny in exchange for all their hard work), then people could easily request 4-hour slots at their own convenience, by declaring their intent to participate, and the time at which they would like jcompton (or whoever) to Email or PM them the theme.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: Kulyok on December 12, 2007, 02:01:11 PM
But is it as fun as knowing that at the same time, all over the world, modders are feverishly typing away, the Insane Overlord gleefully rubs his hands, and the judges prepare to stand and deliver(or do modders stand and deliver? Well, anyway, you got the point)?
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: jcompton on December 12, 2007, 03:14:36 PM
Right. The urgency that comes with knowing that others out there are puzzling on the same topic, working on a same-but-different mod, scrabbling like you are to finish... that's part of the charm.

Besides. Even taking an honor system approach to "I only spent four hours in a text editor", the idea is that, BOOM, you're surprised by the topic, you sit down, you mod, and before you know it, it's all over. No second chances.

It would be a bit much to think that people would be able to resist the urge to sneak a peek at the topic and mull it over for the next few days on the bus or whatever before setting out that four-hour block. But that's a different experience.

(so, uh, the answer is "no, we won't be doing that.") If the Asia-Pac lobbying bloc wants to get together 4-5 people who swear they will enter a contest if I hold it at Friday midnight my time or whatever, then I'll certainly consider it, but without that kind of arrangement, this is the best we can do for the greatest number of people.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: the bigg on December 12, 2007, 04:12:03 PM
It would be a bit much to think that people would be able to resist the urge to sneak a peek at the topic and mull it over for the next few days on the bus or whatever before setting out that four-hour block. But that's a different experience.
Actually, it could be possible not to post the theme in a topic, but only have it available "on request" (E.G. by PMing you and/or setting up a page that records the time at which an user received a topic and when he posted his entry).

But hey, since "good for some, bad for others" is PPG's motto, let's keep possible people from competing.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: Ascension64 on December 12, 2007, 04:24:50 PM
Quote
But hey, since "good for some, bad for others" is PPG's motto, let's keep possible people from competing.
OUTER_SET WORLD = WORLD * (3/4)
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: jcompton on December 12, 2007, 04:30:06 PM
But hey, since "good for some, bad for others" is PPG's motto, let's keep possible people from competing.

Yes, please. Works for me.

I'm not changing the format. Period. You want to run a week-long contest with your own rules, be my guest. Somebody wants to run one with cash prizes where only Canadians are allowed to compete (another pair of changes I have been asked to make, and I only wish I was kidding), they can go right ahead, too.

But Sunday at noon Central for four hours is how this works.

Quote
But hey, since "good for some, bad for others" is PPG's motto, let's keep possible people from competing.
OUTER_SET WORLD = WORLD * (3/4)

It should be obvious that this is the nature of things. If financial markets and Olympic broadcasters can't find a perfect window for everybody to be awake and active (because, y'know, at any given time about a third of the globe thinks it's bedtime), I'm not going to solve this problem for you personally, either.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: CamDawg on December 13, 2007, 11:05:36 AM
I don't care about the date, but I'd love to see another IM Tutu.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: berelinde on December 13, 2007, 05:25:52 PM
I wouldn't mind a Tutu one.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: AnnabelleRose on December 14, 2007, 12:14:29 AM
Any date is fine with me.

I just need about a fifteen day notice to make sure I can get the day off from work (my schedule fluctuates).

TuTu would be rather hard for me, but I'll give it a shot.

What's the worst that can happen?

Excluding me not having a working mod, again.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: Deathsangel on December 14, 2007, 03:58:57 AM
I am out when it will be TuTu.  :( I haven't got an install from that...
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: jcompton on December 14, 2007, 09:38:15 AM
I don't think IM11 will be another Tutu Special. Maybe the subsequent one. It's an extra degree of difficulty so I think it's worthwhile to get more people exposed to "here's what Iron Modding" is like before the Tutu Challenge Too.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: AnnabelleRose on December 15, 2007, 02:25:36 AM
I don't think IM11 will be another Tutu Special. Maybe the subsequent one. It's an extra degree of difficulty so I think it's worthwhile to get more people exposed to "here's what Iron Modding" is like before the Tutu Challenge Too.
/me breathes a sigh of relief as he has been saved from further embarassment by jcompton with this announcement.
/me knows he is so not ready for a TuTu IM, as neat as it would be.

Edit:

To all the ones who the time is inconvient, you could always do your own Iron Modder at a diffrent time.

Heck, I'd even be willing to help judge, since many .ftp sites list the date/time something was uploaded.

Or whoever gets to announce the theme could always monitor the uploads, and distribute them to judges (allthough I am sure with how world-wide this game is, it would not be impossible to get judges that adhere to the same time zones).

Either way, more mods being made, means more mods for me to play.
:D
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: Deathsangel on December 15, 2007, 05:58:16 AM
To all the ones who the time is inconvient, you could always do your own Iron Modder at a diffrent time.

Heck, I'd even be willing to help judge, since many .ftp sites list the date/time something was uploaded.

Or whoever gets to announce the theme could always monitor the uploads, and distribute them to judges (allthough I am sure with how world-wide this game is, it would not be impossible to get judges that adhere to the same time zones).

Either way, more mods being made, means more mods for me to play.[/i] :D

Personally against this. IM is of PPG and of Jcompton. Credit where it is due and it is going again, so let us not do that. ;)
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: the bigg on December 15, 2007, 06:05:43 AM
Personally against this. IM is of PPG and of Jcompton. Credit where it is due and it is going again, so let us not do that. ;)

You fsking SHS modders with your sense of "it's an <X> made by <Y> and nobody can do anything closely resembling that" are going to ruin the world. JC even said that it'd be fine with him:

You want to run a week-long contest with your own rules, be my guest. Somebody wants to run one with cash prizes where only Canadians are allowed to compete (another pair of changes I have been asked to make, and I only wish I was kidding), they can go right ahead, too.

Not to mention that it isn't something that JC brainstormed, either - it's a spinoff from a TV show.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: berelinde on December 15, 2007, 07:44:46 AM
About Tutu being an added degree of difficulty, that depends on your point of view. For me, having really not modded much in BG2, it's the other way around. Tutu is *much* more familiar.

But it's all good.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: cmorgan on December 15, 2007, 10:27:21 AM
I'm good either way; and I want to be skooled by the likes of the bigg and SimDing0 and Cuv and MTS and Celestine/SirBB and COMSolufain and [insert list of every serious modder out there] - heck, not only do we get new encounters out of it, we get little mini-capsules of what that particular modder has really absorbed about manipulating the i.e. engine. They are like mini-workshops on "how can I get X done quickly, with a minimum of fuss, and still have it work".

I don't cook like they do on Top Chef, Ramsey, or Iron Chef. Heck, I don't even cook like Good Eats. But every little presentation throws my mind a new curve, and opens up new ideas that I may just use someday. Same thing with the mod building. I may never fully understand BNOT0 or create my own manipulations of itm offset content without serious help, but it is fun to see it and mess with it - DeathsAngel's misfiring cutscene may have just solved BG1NPC's misfiring Dynaheir Romance cutscenes, so even submitted but not-judged entries teach us cool stuff.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: Deathsangel on December 15, 2007, 12:17:41 PM
Personally against this. IM is of PPG and of Jcompton. Credit where it is due and it is going again, so let us not do that. ;)

You fsking SHS modders with your sense of "it's an <X> made by <Y> and nobody can do anything closely resembling that" are going to ruin the world. JC even said that it'd be fine with him:

You want to run a week-long contest with your own rules, be my guest. Somebody wants to run one with cash prizes where only Canadians are allowed to compete (another pair of changes I have been asked to make, and I only wish I was kidding), they can go right ahead, too.

Not to mention that it isn't something that JC brainstormed, either - it's a spinoff from a TV show.

Pls, the bigg... it was a personal opinion. I have never involved myself in boards and do not tend to do so now.
I hadn't seen that message of Jcompton. If I had known Jcompton had said so than I would have reacted different.
The reason why I said what I did was because I didn't no previous point and to keep away from the Comptetion X is harder/better/nicer because I don't want to start fights.
With this I end this part of the topic.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: the bigg on December 15, 2007, 08:49:06 PM
Pls, the bigg... it was a personal opinion. I have never involved myself in boards and do not tend to do so now.
I hadn't seen that message of Jcompton. If I had known Jcompton had said so than I would have reacted different.
The reason why I said what I did was because I didn't no previous point and to keep away from the Comptetion X is harder/better/nicer because I don't want to start fights.
With this I end this part of the topic.
"Opinions are like anuses: everybody has one and they all stink."  - "allirPM".reverse() (after English-fixing)

Saying something stupid and then saying "it's my personal opinion" doesn't make that any less stupid. Especially when it comes to the common belief of "X did Y to Z, but nobody can do T do Y because it's the work of X", whose application escalates in DRM and the RIAA suing file sharers for a quarter of million $.

You might claim you do not associate yourself with SHS, but your only mod is there, and all notorious defenders of that idea (SConrad, Kae.*, berelinde, etc.) are highly-ranking individuals over there, and SHS is the only place where I've seen this stupid principle from mods to ideas. That's enough to slap a SHS tag over there - exactly like me slapping a PPG tag to JC ten posts above.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: AnnabelleRose on December 15, 2007, 11:24:26 PM
To get back to the discussion, how would the people in the non-convient-time-zones-for-the-normal-Iron-Modder feel about an alternate Iron Modder?

If nothing else, with my messed up sleep schedule, I could always annouce the topic.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: jcompton on December 16, 2007, 12:23:51 AM
Go start a different discussion if you want to organize your own contest, please.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: SimDing0™ on December 16, 2007, 08:56:22 AM
and I want to be skooled by the likes of the bigg and SimDing0 and Cuv and MTS and Celestine/SirBB and COMSolufain and [insert list of every serious modder out there]
excuse me but i think youll find i came last so up yours
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: berelinde on December 17, 2007, 06:33:51 PM
...berelinde, etc
Hey! Hang on! Leave me out of this!

I certainly don't mind being associated with SHS, nor with G3, nor CoM, or anywhere else, but this is a question of opinion not affiliation. FWIW, the only mod I've released as sole author is actually at G3.

I'm all for allowing modders whatever level of ownership they want of their own personal mods (mine will probably get a lot less proprietary in the future, though, because I'm frankly getting quite sick of it), but when it comes to a question of who does or doesn't have the right to hold a timed competition, I don't think anybody can claim ownership. The more the merrier, and all that.

I wouldn't deny PPG the claim of being the first, though, and I do think that the actual name, but not the concept, is PPG.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: cmorgan on December 17, 2007, 06:39:26 PM
excuse me but i think youll find i came last so up yours

You're just out of practice - I'll take my ass whuppin' like a man when you get your game on for real. You've forgotten more about modding than I have ever read :)
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: the bigg on December 17, 2007, 06:57:07 PM
I certainly don't mind being associated with SHS, nor with G3, nor CoM, or anywhere else, but this is a question of opinion not affiliation. FWIW, the only mod I've released as sole author is actually at G3.
You're a GM at SHS though. And I'm talking about the fact that - for some reason - all people who are vocal about enforcing mod copyright (= "it's my/his work and my/his alone") and mod patents (= "it's my/his idea and my/his alone") are highly ranked at SHS.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: Dark Raven on December 17, 2007, 08:30:29 PM
And why not? If someone makes a mod, its theirs. Their ideas, their work. .
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: AnnabelleRose on December 17, 2007, 11:18:16 PM
I certainly don't mind being associated with SHS, nor with G3, nor CoM, or anywhere else, but this is a question of opinion not affiliation. FWIW, the only mod I've released as sole author is actually at G3.
You're a GM at SHS though. And I'm talking about the fact that - for some reason - all people who are vocal about enforcing mod copyright (= "it's my/his work and my/his alone") and mod patents (= "it's my/his idea and my/his alone") are highly ranked at SHS.

Just to stoke the flames a bit, aren't most of your mods hosted at SHS?
/me hides
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: the bigg on December 18, 2007, 07:03:46 AM
And why not? If someone makes a mod, its theirs. Their ideas, their work. .
Copyright escalates in DRM and RIAA suing file sharers. Patents escalate in lack of innovations and Microsoft suing FUDding Linux.
Both "base" ideas, while acceptable in theory, evolve into great dangers for both the have nots and the haves. Hence, both ideas must either be suppressed, or degrade in something as unenforceable as ethics.

Just to stoke the flames a bit, aren't most of your mods hosted at SHS?
/me hides
I am in the (AFAIK) unique position in the comunity of being the only active author for a major work at three different comunities (Refinements at SHS, WeiDU here, WSM at G3), so I can be flamed as a <acronym> member everywhere I go, if the need arises  :)

Though I believe I'm free of this SHS sin (the patents/copyright danger), I'm surely going to die of PPG's (elitism) and G3's ("assimilate to our standard, or be laughed at").
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: Kulyok on December 18, 2007, 07:21:04 AM
Quote
G3's ("assimilate to our standard, or be laughed at").

I thought it was "assimilate to our standard, and be laughed at together with us"?

(sorry, Jason, I couldn't resist. Besides, I learnt from informed sources Cam is on vacation, so we can flame his subjunctive fixes in the meantime).

Seriously, folks, I don't understand what the fuss is about. The next IM will take place. I am going to win, whenever it will be, because I am so, so great, so accomplished, so fully realized in my potential that I simply do not know where to begin. And I've got a hat, too. But, sure, we can talk about this a little more, since I always enjoy talking about myself. (And, I'm an elitist. Naturally).
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: SimDing0™ on December 18, 2007, 08:26:22 AM
I am in the (AFAIK) unique position in the comunity of being the only active author for a major work at three different comunities (Refinements at SHS, WeiDU here, WSM at G3), so I can be flamed as a <acronym> member everywhere I go, if the need arises  :)
Heh. I'll call your Refinements and raise you TDD. (Pushing my luck? :))

I believe the upshot of all this is that the next Iron Modder theme is probably going to be

Let's Chat Shit About Copyright Law
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: the bigg on December 18, 2007, 08:45:29 AM
Heh. I'll call your Refinements and raise you TDD. (Pushing my luck? :))
<insert sad ESL icon>

I believe the upshot of all this is that the next Iron Modder theme is probably going to be

Let's Chat Shit About Copyright Law
In that event, I'm going to replace the AR0602 graphics with an enlarged Napster logo and have Irenicus play the entire "Nothing else Matters" in stead of the usual cutscene. Then we'll wait for the DCMA takedown notice (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071204-mpaas-university-toolkit-hit-with-dmca-takedown-notice-after-gpl-violation.html) and say bye-bye to all BG modding FOREVAR.
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: AnnabelleRose on December 18, 2007, 03:10:49 PM
Oh yeah!

Well I have mods at TeamBG, SHS, and a beta at CoM....

Wait, you said major mods, n/m.

As for the rest:

Copyright infringement is your best entertainmaent value! (http://negativland.com/riaa/atn.html)
Title: Re: IM11 possible dates
Post by: jcompton on February 17, 2008, 06:21:02 PM
March and April don't look like they're going to work out as well as I had hoped, so we'll try again, in a new thread...