Pocket Plane Group
Miscellany, Inc. => Ensign First Class Blather => Topic started by: Sorrow on November 11, 2005, 12:12:01 PM
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Yeah, I'm feeling lonely, so I decided to start a thread about non-drinking.
Are there any non-drinking people?
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I don't drink. Or smoke. Silly habits, those.
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A glass of wine a day is actually good for you :).
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I'm not suppose to drink, but I have had a few drinks when it's a special occasion.
(Last time was March when I was with Grim, Alarielle, Andyr, Seifer and my friend Ceza in Scotland. ;) )
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I don't drink at all.
Bloody horrible stuff beer. Hate it.
Apple juice is ok.
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I don't drink anything that has even a drop of alcohol. Also no smoking, coffee and such stuff. Never did.
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A glass of wine a day is actually good for you :).
"I don't drink...wine."
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I don't drink at all.
*cough* *cough* Seven deadly sins... *cough*
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I haven't drank since I wrecked my car, but that's out of circumstance, not personal policy. Nowadays everything is a sin and causes cancer, so that doesn't account for much in my book anymore.
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I drink very rarely and very small amounts of alcohol, because I like being sober and I dislike being drunk.
I dislike the company of drunk people.
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I don't drink much, but I like drinking. I also like smoking, eating, shagging... anything that's fun :)
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HARLOT!
Give me a call: (281) 555-3761
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Alcohol, sex, drugs and rock n roll baby! :D
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Been sober for 11 years, 2 months, 4 days... ;D Beer sucks. Wine sucks less.
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I don't drink at all.
Bloody horrible stuff beer. Hate it.
Apple juice is ok.
Heh.
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i used to enjoy a drink on occasion... i was always a one drink wonder though. when i was in school, my friends used to think it was hilarious to get me drunk. now i have no tolerance for alcohol at all. i skip the buzz and go straight to the hangover, and i get sick as a dog, so its just not worth it any more.
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I don't drink, smoke or indulge in any indecent activities, but I am, admittedly, a filthy liar.
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Give me a call
I'm not good at phone sex, sorry.
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but I am, admittedly, a filthy liar.
I don't believe you.
And I don't drink. It bores me. Drunk people are not much fun to be round sober either.
Also, Evaine, practice makes perfect!
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I was sober for over a year, but in the end it didn't work.
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I don't drink, it's illegal for me. (For the next 3 months anyway) ;D
Bloody horrible stuff beer. Hate it.
Amen to that! Beer is nasty, I prefer Bacardi!
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Does Guiness count as alcohol or as a meal replacement? ;)
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Both.
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Hmm...
I started this thread mainly because I wanted to ask people who don't drink about how the fact that most of people drink influences their lives.
I don't know how about others, but I strongly dislike the company of drunk persons.
My feelings vary from disgust towards those who are under slight influence of alcohol to homicidal hatred towards those who are really drunk.
The problem is that today society forces people to be in company of people that they don't want to see...
For example when I was in second class of secondary school I had to go to a camp with rest of my class, because some of lessons were on the camp, so I had to go to go to that damned camp to go to the next class.
Of course everyone except me and one girl were drinking heavily (yeah teachers too).
I left that school and since that camp I avoid all school camps and tours.
This situation is annoying me because I don't know why, vast mayority of young people in my country tries to get drunk as soon as they are out of parent's control...
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Does Guiness count as alcohol or as a meal replacement? ;)
Both baby. It's the best beer ever made.
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I don't know how about others, but I strongly dislike the company of drunk persons.
My feelings vary from disgust towards those who are under slight influence of alcohol to homicidal hatred towards those who are really drunk.
Most people I know (myself included) don't get terribly different when they're drunk, they just laugh more and have funny ideas that make great retelling material. I've hardly met anyone whom I found disgusting, not even the stranger who sat next to me in cinema, mistook me for his girlfriend and fondled my thigh extensively ;)
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.My feelings vary from disgust towards those who are under slight influence of alcohol to homicidal hatred towards those who are really drunk.
May I ask why?
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.My feelings vary from disgust towards those who are under slight influence of alcohol to homicidal hatred towards those who are really drunk.
May I ask why?
Just make sure he's sobre when you answer that Sorrow.
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Hey, I'm sober. :)
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Alcohol. Helps me relax from a hard days work but I don't drink until I'm drunk only when I get comfortable. I may go overboard on the weekends though.
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Just like there are all kinds of people, there are all kinds of drunks. Asshole drunks, funny drunks, sleepy drunks, horny drunks, etc. Being disgusted with someone simply because they've had a few drinks is as ignorant as being disgusted with someone simply because they're human.
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I fall into these ones more often than being and asshole.
funny drunks, sleepy drunks, horny drunks
Mostly funny, obnoxius. ;)
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Just like there are all kinds of people, there are all kinds of drunks. Asshole drunks, funny drunks, sleepy drunks, horny drunks, etc. Being disgusted with someone simply because they've had a few drinks is as ignorant as being disgusted with someone simply because they're human.
Well said. ;)
The one philosophy I truly adhere to is "Eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die." The type of drunk I am depends on the type of alcohol I had. I generally tend to be a funny drunk, though occasionally I've been known to be a horny drunk.
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@Sorrow's question. I don't have any problems with not drinking. For a long time my friends who did drink had problems as I was constantly making fun of them (like getting them drunk and then talking into playing chess, filming it and showing it to them the next morning) While generally I think that while drunk people tend to loose their self-respect, it doesn't bother me, and I rather like being the only sober in a company of alcohol-influenced people. :)
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My father is an alcoholic, and for most of my life I never saw him sober. When he finally decided to only get drunk on special occasions about 15 years ago, I was stunned by how dry and funny and clever he is when sober, and how much I enjoyed being in his company.
I don't generally find drunks very entertaining - although one of my sisters is hilarious after 3 champagnes and a Bacardi and coke - but it does depend on how drunk they are. Once a drunk gets to slurring, falling down and vomiting they have no entertainment value at all.
Among my father's friends men who don't drink are deeply suspect. But since dad and his mates have unresolved male ego issues, their views can't be taken too seriously.
I personally like drinking, and enjoy a good wine, and was surprised that I was surprised when a colleague informed me he didn't drink. I had to recollect that drinking isn't compulsory. I think alcohol is seen as an acceptable recreational drug because it can be so civilised - wine with a meal, fine brandy and port, etc.
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My feelings vary from disgust towards those who are under slight influence of alcohol to homicidal hatred towards those who are really drunk.
Just like there are all kinds of people, there are all kinds of drunks. Asshole drunks, funny drunks, sleepy drunks, horny drunks, etc. Being disgusted with someone simply because they've had a few drinks is as ignorant as being disgusted with someone simply because they're human.
I tend to agree with Icelus somewhat. One should have compassion towards those who drink [heavily]. Maybe they have serious problems, obvious or not, just like Sorrow seems to have traumatic experience.
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I find that drinking tends to bring out the real person behind their facade. In moderation. Taken to extremes, it just turns you into a slurring, uncoordinated fuckstick.
So if you find that you're a depressed or angry drunk, it's time to take a good hard look at your priorities in life.
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I don't know.
I don't think it brings out a real person.
I think that it rather melts it.
.My feelings vary from disgust towards those who are under slight influence of alcohol to homicidal hatred towards those who are really drunk.
May I ask why?
Maybe I have overexaggerated with the "disgust".
I just dislike how alcohol affects human organism and human mind.
I tried drinking small amounts of alcohol a few times and I think that it's not worth it.
I prefer to have a clear mind and I don't have ano problems with having fun on parties without drinking alcohol, so I don't se a point in lessening my self-control and coordination.
I hate how people willingly lose their dignity and self-control when they are really drunk.
When I see someone that stands barely on it's feet and tries to say something coherent, but is unable to, I just want to beat it till it's dead.
Of course I have more than enough self-control to don't do anything like that, but the bad impression remains.
I feel deep hate and disgust towards people who have no dignity (not only drunk).
Being disgusted with someone simply because they've had a few drinks is as ignorant as being disgusted with someone simply because they're human.
I don't forgive such weakness.
If they are disgusting to me because they've had a few drinks is their fault, not mine.
They could have a few drink less or don't drink at all and retain their dignity and self control.
Your statement is completely irrevelant, because people should be responsible for their own behaviour.
If they willingly lead themselves to the state when they have limited self-control, it's purely their fault.
@Sorrow's question. I don't have any problems with not drinking. For a long time my friends who did drink had problems as I was constantly making fun of them (like getting them drunk and then talking into playing chess, filming it and showing it to them the next morning) While generally I think that while drunk people tend to loose their self-respect, it doesn't bother me, and I rather like being the only sober in a company of alcohol-influenced people. :)
LOL
Drunk people are perfect toys :D .
I remember using one girl as a target for shooting practice :) .
That was quite funny, especially that she couldn't do anything to stop me :D .
Yeah, drinking in copany of sober people is dangerous ;D .
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So where do you draw the line? Alcohol is unacceptable to you, but what about other recreational drugs? What about caffeine or sugar? By your statement earlier you stated that you were disgusted with people even if they've only had very little to drink, so shouldn't that same sentiment be applied to someone who is acting a little wacky because they've had an excessive amount of sugar or caffeine?
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I said that I overexaggerated when I said about being disgusted with people who drink small amounts of alcohol, though I don't like it's smell.
I have no problems with really small amounts of alcohol, but I prefer to avoid it altogether, because I don't like it's effects on my body and mind.
I think that coffeine is more acceptable, because amount of it that would make people lose dignity and self-control would probably kill them too :) .
Besides that I've never seen a person that had an excessive amount of coffeine/sugar and behaved like a person who had an excessive amount of alcohol.
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Sorrow, you're disgusted when women wear makeup. You need to come to terms with humanity. A lot of your opinions on how people should and should not behave are downright unreasonable . . . not to mention arrogant. You're human too, after all. A little humility and a little bit less judgementalism would make you a much more agreeable person.
I, personally, don't drink. Alchoholism is rampant in my family, and I'm not about to test the water to see if I'm subject to it or not. It bothers me to be surrounded by people who are drinking just because of the whole "temptation" issue, but in general, I try not to care about it too much. The only problem I have with drunks is that, as a college student, the only real kind of drunk I ever experience is the sloppy, disgusting, 20-year-old obnoxious girl drunk and the aggressive frat-boy drunk. My friends get really "dancey" when they're drunk, though. That's fun. I kind of like dancing, and if they're drunk, they don't notice how bad I am at it. Haha.
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Sorrow, you're disgusted when women wear makeup. You need to come to terms with humanity. A lot of your opinions on how people should and should not behave are downright unreasonable . . . not to mention arrogant. You're human too, after all. A little humility and a little bit less judgementalism would make you a much more agreeable person.
Yup, I'm a human too ;D .
I just find drinking and make-up highly unattractive.
I'm not judgemental towards all human race.
It's like people complaining that men/women are swines, I'm frustrated with lack of compatibile romance partner and suddenly most of humanity seems to be flaved because they are not like me (i.e. non-drinking, non-made-up).
People can do what they want as long as they aren't my close ones (i.e. live in one house with me).
As for friends...
I prefer to see them when they are sober.
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LOL
Drunk people are perfect toys :D .
I remember using one girl as a target for shooting practice :) .
That was quite funny, especially that she couldn't do anything to stop me :D .
Yeah, drinking in copany of sober people is dangerous ;D .
Your intolerance is a definite sign of inmaturity. Not all drunks are disgusting beings with no self-control. As long as we're on the subject of being disgusted, I wouldn't go as far a calling the kettle black. C'mon, what kind of respectable human being would go as far as using a girl who happened to be intoxicated at the time as human target?! Your perception on disgust is seriously fucked up flawed.
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Sorrow, you're disgusted when women wear makeup. You need to come to terms with humanity. A lot of your opinions on how people should and should not behave are downright unreasonable . . . not to mention arrogant. You're human too, after all. A little humility and a little bit less judgementalism would make you a much more agreeable person.
Yup, I'm a human too ;D .
I just find drinking and make-up highly unattractive.
I'm not judgemental towards all human race.
It's like people complaining that men/women are swines, I'm frustrated with lack of compatibile romance partner and suddenly most of humanity seems to be flaved because they are not like me (i.e. non-drinking, non-made-up).
People can do what they want as long as they aren't my close ones (i.e. live in one house with me).
As for friends...
I prefer to see them when they are sober.
Perhaps, if you were to bring your rather rigid standards down a notch, and stopped acting like an emo boy you might actually bag a decent mate. ;)
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I think it's fine to have rigid standards, and think people who drink are disgusting, if you want to think that. So long as you don't expect everyone else to agree...
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Your intolerance is a definite sign of inmaturity. Not all drunks are disgusting beings with no self-control. As long as we're on the subject of being disgusted, I wouldn't go as far a calling the kettle black. C'mon, what kind of respectable human being would go as far as using a girl who happened to be intoxicated at the time as human target?! Your perception on disgust is seriously fucked up flawed.
I didn't say that I'm good, kind or perfect.
Whole situation happened few years ago when I was on a Camp with my class.
I was forced to go, despite the fact, that teachers knew that there will be heavy drinking.
Since everyone except me and one other person were drunk, and I had noone to talk to and nothing interesting to do...
Today I wouldn't do that, it could annoy someone enought to make him/her attack me...
The problem is that I could use her as a target for shooting practice and she could do nothing about it, because she was intoxicated.
I wouldn't like to be with someone that willingly becomes completely helpless in company of people who can't be trusted completely.
This means that what she have done was wrong, because it put her in very dangerous situation (i.e. if someone wanted to kill her or to rape her, she wouldn't be able to anything, if the house was on fire, she wouldn't be able to do anything if some of her friends would get hurt, she wouldn't be able to help her/him, not to mention, that she nearly killed herself, when she tried to use stairs.).
(I'm not trying to justify using her as target, but I'm talking about the part of being really drunk that really, really fills me with disgust.)
I had some unpleasant and dangerous experiences with drunk friends and I don't want to have anything to do with drunk people anymore.
Those experiences weren't about that that drunk people are dangerous, or disgusting by themselves but they tend to provoke dangerous situations by their pure stupidity and are almost completely useless in dangerous situation.
If avoiding company people who are in state that puts me and them in danger is immature, then I prefer to stay immature (and alive).
Perhaps, if you were to bring your rather rigid standards down a notch, and stopped acting like an emo boy you might actually bag a decent mate. ;)
I value vigilance, dignity and safety, if those are rigid standards, then I prefer them to stay so.
Err...
What does "Emo boy" mean?
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What does "Emo boy" mean?
I'm excited because just today I discovered the meaning of "emo". It is a term for the school of music known as "emotional punk-rock", characterised by depressed yet privileged young men who wear black eye makeup and sing/listen to depressing music with the volume turned up. It is generally used in a dismissive manner as the music concerned tends to lack depth and/or maturity in terms of lyrics, structure or meaning.
Most of us are emo at some time in our lives... particularly when we're teenagers. It's practically a rite of passage. You must be one of: spocky, emo, preppy, cynical or cool. At least, that's the way things were when I was a lass... :)
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I pick #1, #2 (mostly past that now), and #4
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If everyone is responsible for their own behaviour Soz, then you are responsible for your feelings towards drunks, not them. Fair enough, avoid drunks who are dangerous. But why foster supercharged negative feelings about harmless ones? People do stupid unattractive things: they're called mistakes.
The trouble with having rigid standards is you do expect others to agree with them, and you judge them harshly when they don't. Then your tolerance muscles start to atrophy and you end up bitter and lonely and a gigantic pain in the arse.
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I had some unpleasant and dangerous experiences with drunk friends and I don't want to have anything to do with drunk people anymore.
Those experiences weren't about that that drunk people are dangerous, or disgusting by themselves but they tend to provoke dangerous situations by their pure stupidity and are almost completely useless in dangerous situation.
If avoiding company people who are in state that puts me and them in danger is immature, then I prefer to stay immature (and alive).
I value vigilance, dignity and safety, if those are rigid standards, then I prefer them to stay so.
I commend you on your decision to not drink. However, I find your harsh [judgmental] comments and intolerance very off-putting. People do stupid things all the time, regardless of whether there's alcohol involved or not. Just because you had a negative experience, it doesn't mean that all the drunks are reckless daredevils endangering everyone around them.
You claim you never said you were good, kind or perfect, but your attitude and your earlier remarks suggest otherwise.
What does "Emo boy" mean?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=emo&page=2 Definition 14 sounds about right.
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If everyone is responsible for their own behaviour Soz, then you are responsible for your feelings towards drunks, not them. Fair enough, avoid drunks who are dangerous. But why foster supercharged negative feelings about harmless ones? People do stupid unattractive things: they're called mistakes.
Yeah.
I guess it's time to do something with my feeling - avoidance is beneficial, but hatred brings only suffering.
Since suffering is wrong, hatred is unadvised unless something needs to be kicked.
Mistakes aren't the problem.
The problem is that mistakes are repeated and glorified by the culture.
The trouble with having rigid standards is you do expect others to agree with them, and you judge them harshly when they don't. Then your tolerance muscles start to atrophy and you end up bitter and lonely and a gigantic pain in the arse.
I wouldn't call my standards rigid. I'm not losing anything because of not-drinking. That's why I'm not drinking.
As for tolerance...
I think that I must work on it a bit, because intolerance decreases the quality of my life.
I commend you on your decision to not drink. However, I find your harsh [judgmental] comments and intolerance very off-putting. People do stupid things all the time, regardless of whether there's alcohol involved or not. Just because you had a negative experience, it doesn't mean that all the drunks are reckless daredevils endangering everyone around them.
You claim you never said you were good, kind or perfect, but your attitude and your earlier remarks suggest otherwise.
compa
Those dangerous situations involving my drunk friends weren't dangerous because they were agressive or doing dangerous things, because I tend to avoid people who tend to have really stupid ideas, but because they were unable to act effectively in situations that require alertness, cohesive thinking and movement coordination.
I don't like when people actively decrease their value as companions and allies, so I don't like when my friends drink in my company, nor I would take a drinking girl as a life partner.
What does "Emo boy" mean?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=emo&page=2 Definition 14 sounds about right.
Nope.
I'm not a nerd and I'm not listening to emocore music and I'm not depressed and angsty most of time.
I'm closer to being goth, but I'm not goth, because I don't wear make-up, nor I listen to goth music.
I would call myself a metalhead if metalheads weren't infamous for drinking and taking drugs.
I'm creating my own way, and I temporary feel alienated, because it's my own way based on my own experiences and observations and I'm alone on it.
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If everyone is responsible for their own behaviour Soz, then you are responsible for your feelings towards drunks, not them. Fair enough, avoid drunks who are dangerous. But why foster supercharged negative feelings about harmless ones? People do stupid unattractive things: they're called mistakes.
The trouble with having rigid standards is you do expect others to agree with them, and you judge them harshly when they don't. Then your tolerance muscles start to atrophy and you end up bitter and lonely and a gigantic pain in the arse.
I must say I do not agree with your statemnet that seems to put an equation between having "rigid" standards and expecting others to comply to them. I just don't see that connection. I have a lot silly rules I follow with no exepctions (no alcohol, smoking, coffee, umbrellas) and my wife likes doing all the things (exept smoking) my "ruleset" exludes. Never have I tried to talk her into following my way nor for that matter did she. It's perfectly easy to have rigid rules and apply them only to oneself.
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On the side note: I know many people (including myself) who while being completly sober commited most idiotic, undiginfied acts imaginable.
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That's why I don't need to drink ;) .
If I want to do something idiotic, I just do that after making sure that consequences aren't too grave ;D .
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(http://www2.visalia.k12.ca.us/greenacres/ga_webpages/staff/images/wpe14.gif)
Just listen to Mr. Mackey, mmmkay?
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/me falls on floor, clutches pictures of alcohol and giggles like mad.
Oh sorry wrong thread!
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Borsook, I was thinking more of people who feel their standards are right, and are often in religious groups dictating to others not in their group about how they should live. Everyone's got personal rules for living: the ability to tolerate and accept others whose rules are different is not held in the same degree by everyone.
Umbrellas? You don't believe in umbrellas? No contraptions should stand between you and the elements? Or you just like rain? :D
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(http://www2.visalia.k12.ca.us/greenacres/ga_webpages/staff/images/wpe14.gif)
Just listen to Mr. Mackey, mmmkay?
Ummm errr wrong. :D
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Borsook, I was thinking more of people who feel their standards are right, and are often in religious groups dictating to others not in their group about how they should live. Everyone's got personal rules for living: the ability to tolerate and accept others whose rules are different is not held in the same degree by everyone.
In that case, fine, you're right.
Umbrellas? You don't believe in umbrellas? No contraptions should stand between you and the elements? Or you just like rain? :D
Yes I don't use umbrellas. Nor hats for that matter. I like rain and I believe umbrellas to be very impractical, I've been getting soking wet every time it rains for the past quater of a century, never changing into dry clothes (this out of lazyness not rules) and now it's almost impossible for me to catch cold. Whereas my wife who's a umbrella lover gets sick after five minutes in the rain. Though lately I get some pains in the bones before rain so there's a downside to this too ;D
Yes, as you see I'm a great object for jokes. :D
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(http://www2.visalia.k12.ca.us/greenacres/ga_webpages/staff/images/wpe14.gif)
Just listen to Mr. Mackey, mmmkay?
Ummm errr wrong. :D
Isn't that cute... BUT IT'S WRONG! ;D
Mr. Mackey is always right!
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I can't agree with you on hats, Borsook. They keep you warm in winter, and stop you from getting sunburnt in summer. Absolute necessities.
Umbrellas, I'll pay that. Although they do keep your hair and shoulders dry, giving you an illusion of protection.
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I can't agree with you on hats, Borsook. They keep you warm in winter, and stop you from getting sunburnt in summer. Absolute necessities.
Umbrellas, I'll pay that. Although they do keep your hair and shoulders dry, giving you an illusion of protection.
Not trying to convince you, there. :) And for keeping warm in winter nothing beats a thick, red beard. I really recommend trying it. ;) (NOTE: The last sentece is NOT in a way connected to the lame "Eral may be a man discussion" BorsookTM knows she's a woman, not that it matters or anything... ;D)
PS. What's your time zone Eral?
EDIT>a silly, silly typo...
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It's 6:00 pm here, Australian Eastern Standard Time.
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It's 6:00 pm here, Australian Eastern Standard Time.
Wow. I asked because most people here aren't around when I'm here, but in your case the difference is simply large enough... when you wrote it it was around 8.00 a.m. at my end.
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I believe umbrellas to be very impractical
This may sound like a stupid question, but you do realize umbrellas are collapsible, right? :D Anyway, does this only include the type of umbrella designed to shelter you from the rain, or does it also include those intended to provide protection from the sun as well (aka parasols)?
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I believe umbrellas to be very impractical
This may sound like a stupid question, but you do realize umbrellas are collapsible, right? :D
Yes I do. As a matter of fact as a boy I spend many an hour fencing with other boys using an umbrella. BTW let me say it again: I'm not trying to convince anyone to not using umbrellas!
Anyway, does this only include the type of umbrella designed to shelter you from the rain, or does it also include those intended to provide protection from the sun as well (aka parasols)?
I dunno. I know from literature/films that such an item exists but I've never beheld it with my own eyes, so hard to say. BTW in my native language we have a word "parasol" and use it in a meaning of "umbrella"
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I dislike umbrellas because usually they are at height of my eyes.
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lift it up further?
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lift it up further?
He probably meant the ones held by other people, and true this is annoying.
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Yup.I have to scratch my hair a lot.
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Umbrellas are good for people who wear mascara. I could care less if my clothes are wet, it only takes a few minutes to throw on a t-shirt. Washing off my makeup and reapplying it all because I've got ohmyGodit'sraining panda-eyes takes considerably longer. If I were a guy, though . . .
Being out in the rain is fun when you can do it in private and have a good dance.
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Heh.
Another reason why I'm not fond of make-up :) .
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Umbrellas are good for people who wear mascara.
What's a mascara? just make-up or a specific kind?
I could care less if my clothes are wet, it only takes a few minutes to throw on a t-shirt. Washing off my makeup and reapplying it all because I've got ohmyGodit'sraining panda-eyes takes considerably longer. If I were a guy, though . . .
You know being a woman can not use make-up. And should you be a man you could use make-up should you want to, I don't see why not.
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Well, Borsook, I could also dress in sweatpants and tank-tops all day, or maybe walk around in a clown-suit for the rest of my life. However, since our society places certain expectations upon me, as a woman, no matter how "attractive" I might be naturally, I have to meet those expectations or risk either being overlooked entirely or not being taken seriously.
And I don't care if men wear make-up, but as long as we're on the subject of societal convention . . . men typically don't, and when they do, it's not the kind of thing that bleeds with water.
Besides, I like wearing makeup.
Mascara is what you wear to make your eyelashes look longer. It comes in wand-form.
(http://www.avon-minsk.nm.ru/2/mascara-ast-leng-show.jpg)
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I dunno. I know from literature/films that such an item exists but I've never beheld it with my own eyes, so hard to say. BTW in my native language we have a word "parasol" and use it in a meaning of "umbrella"
Heh, here in Britain just about any pub with a garden has them, as does almost any public beach during the summer ;).
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I dunno. I know from literature/films that such an item exists but I've never beheld it with my own eyes, so hard to say. BTW in my native language we have a word "parasol" and use it in a meaning of "umbrella"
Heh, here in Britain just about any pub with a garden has them, as does almost any public beach during the summer ;).
Yeah we have those two I thought you meant the ones carry around in hand.
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Well, Borsook, I could also dress in sweatpants and tank-tops all day, or maybe walk around in a clown-suit for the rest of my life. However, since our society places certain expectations upon me, as a woman, no matter how "attractive" I might be naturally, I have to meet those expectations or risk either being overlooked entirely or not being taken seriously.
And I don't care if men wear make-up, but as long as we're on the subject of societal convention . . . men typically don't, and when they do, it's not the kind of thing that bleeds with water.
Besides, I like wearing makeup.
Thankfully it's all rather a border of conventions, there are women considered beautiful by the "general public" who never wear make-up and well known men who do wear it. But since you like it, there's no problem... isn't there some waterproof stuff btw?
Mascara is what you wear to make your eyelashes look longer. It comes in wand-form.
Thanx, it's always good to learn new words.
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Well, Borsook, I could also dress in sweatpants and tank-tops all day, or maybe walk around in a clown-suit for the rest of my life. However, since our society places certain expectations upon me, as a woman, no matter how "attractive" I might be naturally, I have to meet those expectations or risk either being overlooked entirely or not being taken seriously.
And I don't care if men wear make-up, but as long as we're on the subject of societal convention . . . men typically don't, and when they do, it's not the kind of thing that bleeds with water.
Besides, I like wearing makeup.
Mascara is what you wear to make your eyelashes look longer. It comes in wand-form.
(http://www.avon-minsk.nm.ru/2/mascara-ast-leng-show.jpg)
It looks so...
Creepy... :(
Of course there are social expectations for women to wear make-up.
People make a lot of money on those expectations.
Personally I think that social expectations are things that can be modelled and changed.
Make-up producers invest a lot of money in making woman wear make-up.
It's just a mass brain washing.
Woman-make-up
Man-shaved-in-suit
In my personal philosophy it's a war.
People create their own standards and force them upon other people.
They create advertisements, they preach, they express their opinions.
They make money by creating need for their own products.
This is how social expectations are born.
Armies of words and images conquer peoples minds.
Different people have different goals.
Some people want to make money, some people want to stay in control and some people become victims of other peoples expectations.
I think that staying in control is a key to Final Victory.
I follow my own Law and I create my own expectations that are often contrary to social ones.
Of course, I need to gain a foothold and an army, so I have to express my expectations and opinions.
Thanks to that, I can find other people that are discontent with current situation.
When I will have an army, I will be able to start an offensive :) .
Every mind is a territory that belongs to different factions.
Since I'm the foothold, my resolve is crucial to the victory.
To resign is to fall.
To hesistate is to betray.
If various people can sell their visions to others, I can sell my own :) .
There are so many possibilities...
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I think that staying in control is a key to Final Victory.
I follow my own Law and I create my own expectations that are often contrary to social ones.
Of course, I need to gain a foothold and an army, so I have to express my expectations and opinions.
Thanks to that, I can find other people that are discontent with current situation.
When I will have an army, I will be able to start an offensive .
Every mind is a territory that belongs to different factions.
Since I'm the foothold, my resolve is crucial to the victory.
To resign is to fall.
To hesistate is to betray.
If various people can sell their visions to others, I can sell my own .
There are so many possibilities...
I drink to that!
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Heh, here in Britain just about any pub with a garden has [parasols], as does almost any public beach during the summer ;).
Okay, so let me get this straight. Pubs in Britain have playgrounds for kids, and now I find out they have gardens. Do they grow organic vegetables there? Where do they have room for the booze?
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The gardens tend not to have many plants. Mostly just picnic benches to sit and drink at, so drinking space is not compromised. For when you want your beer outside. :)
Note: this is pubs, not bars. City bars tend not to have beer gardens.
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Ohhhh, BEER gardens. Yes, we have those. For drinking outside. Yes. Still no playpens for children, though.
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I thought pubs were just for men to get away from family and stuff. Now I find out that not only can your wife show up. She can bring all the kids too. :/
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In the spirit of thoughts connected to the subject, "Leaving Las Vegas" is one of my favourite movies.
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Ohhhh, BEER gardens. Yes, we have those. For drinking outside. Yes. Still no playpens for children, though.
you just reminded me of when i worked in a nursing home. one of our confused little old ladies accused me of running a beer garden out of the basement. at the time, i had never hear of "beer garden" before.
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WTF!? I thought we were talking about drinking. Now we are talking umbrellas, beauty tips and day care centers in pubs? ???
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Look, it's a very simple concept. Have a seperate area at the pub where kids are allowed and then women can drink too, men can stay at the pub longer drinking, and the pub owners make more money.
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Well, Borsook, I could also dress in sweatpants and tank-tops all day, or maybe walk around in a clown-suit for the rest of my life. However, since our society places certain expectations upon me, as a woman, no matter how "attractive" I might be naturally, I have to meet those expectations or risk either being overlooked entirely or not being taken seriously.
And I don't care if men wear make-up, but as long as we're on the subject of societal convention . . . men typically don't, and when they do, it's not the kind of thing that bleeds with water.
Besides, I like wearing makeup.
Mascara is what you wear to make your eyelashes look longer. It comes in wand-form.
(http://www.avon-minsk.nm.ru/2/mascara-ast-leng-show.jpg)
I would use makeup, but #1: Too lazy. and #2: I have a stunted sense of Aesthetics.
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Get a suit instead. A nice three-piece one. Possibly with pinstripes. Everyone likes pinstripes. Hey, didja know I can tie a tie? The guy at the suit place gave me a brochure.
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WTF!? I thought we were talking about drinking. Now we are talking umbrellas, beauty tips and day care centers in pubs? ???
You've been at PPG long enough to notice that thread never stay "on topic" till the end... and it's good!
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http://www.ehow.com/how_15994_tie-double-windsor.html
For those who did not get a brochure. ;) Yay for three piece suits!
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There's waterproof make-up. It depends on the quality, but usually it should outlast a walk in the rain.
Men in good suits look very sexy.
edit: typo
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isn't there some waterproof stuff btw?
Yes, but the problem with waterproof makeup is impossible to take off with virtually any soap. Plus, it tends to be of lower quality. Mascara is hard enough to get out of your eyelashes to begin with.
And really, there aren't many women who don't wear any makeup who are considered "beautiful" in the conventional sense. Not any that are in visible, popular postions in society, anyway. But like I said before, I hardly care. Other people's makeup isn't a concern for me, and I really don't think it should be anyone's concern. That's something of a personal thing . . . like bra-wearing. The only thing about makeup I get "political" about is the animal testing issue.
What's odd is that I have odd moral objections towards plastic surgery, but other than plastic surgery -- I fully condone anything that people do to make themselves look better. Clothes, exercise, hygene, makeup, haircuts . . . what have you, all good to me so long as it's voluntary. Nose jobs and ass implants, not so much. I really need to unpack that hyprocracy, but, you know, there's bigger fish and all of that.
edited to fix quote errors woo.
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WTF!? I thought we were talking about drinking. Now we are talking umbrellas, beauty tips and day care centers in pubs? ???
You've been at PPG long enough to notice that thread never stay "on topic" till the end... and it's good!
But it was such a good thread to begin with.
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Actually, we were talking about non-drinking
And really, there aren't many women who don't wear any makeup who are considered "beautiful" in the conventional sense. Not any that are in visible, popular postions in society, anyway. But like I said before, I hardly care. Other people's makeup isn't a concern for me, and I really don't think it should be anyone's concern.
I don't know.
To me it's a question of fairness.
I used to know a girl who was very pretty and had very beautiful honey-blonde hair and I was very impressed with her looks.
About year after meeting her first time I've met her without make-up and without natural hair and she was ugly and looked very unhealthy.
I got pissed at her and never met her again, because I hate being tricked and she tricked me and other people that she looks better than she looks.
Of course her bad looks wouldn't mean anything to me if I knew how she looks when I met her.
I mean, I fallen in love with her looks for almost two days, before I discovered that she isn't in my type.
Damn, some people have to be born with good looks and...
Wrr...
Since that day I really, really despise hair-paint and make up as a method of gaining people's attention.
So, sometimes other people's make up is concern of other people's, because it affects their perception and feelings.
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So, you admit that you only liked her for her looks? I think she was better off that you left her alone. She can do much better.
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@ I really, really despise hair-paint and make up as a method of gaining people's attention.
Something like this?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v161/jester00/images.jpg)
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Don't people have the right to try and make themselves look better? You shave or trim your nails right? How is that any less artificial than makeup? I'm not such a fan of surgery to change your appearance, but makeup, meh.
And if you actually loved her, her appearance wouldn't matter anyhow.
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??? I like makeup and dying my hair. Right now my natural red hair is raven black. I'm already good looking why not enhance it? :D
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Wow, that's supremely shallow. I love it.
"I will love you forever and ever, my darling, and together we... hey, is that planter's wart medicine you have in your bathroom?!? How could you deceive me so?! I thought your feet were pure! But no... this is it. This is the end. I can never see you again, you most slanderous and foul of deceivers."
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Wow, that's supremely shallow. I love it.
"I will love you forever and ever, my darling, and together we... hey, is that planter's wart medicine you have in your bathroom?!? How could you deceive me so?! I thought your feet were pure! But no... this is it. This is the end. I can never see you again, you most slanderous and foul of deceivers."
I find your metaphore supremely shallow and irrevelant.
Medicine is to cure sickness.
Make-up and hair-paint is to make someone look different.
Don't people have the right to try and make themselves look better? You shave or trim your nails right? How is that any less artificial than makeup? I'm not such a fan of surgery to change your appearance, but makeup, meh.
And if you actually loved her, her appearance wouldn't matter anyhow.
Shaving/cutting/washing hair and trimming nails is rather hygiene thing that falsifying looks, same for deodorant (though I dislike perfumed deodorants and perfums).
I didn't love her.
We were friends.
So, you admit that you only liked her for her looks? I think she was better off that you left her alone. She can do much better.
Not for only her looks, I liked to talk with her.
But I was attracted to her looks.
Since she used her looks to attract people, it's normal that I was rejected with the same force, when I discovered that they were fake.
I liked her, but we had different personalities and different interests.
Funny thing, but admiring each other's looks was an important part of our friendship (I don't know, why I think that people like people who look good).
Finding out that she isn't even pretty, was just too much, because she posed for someone she isn't, while I was who I seemed to be ;D .
Hmm...
It may be hard to explain...
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Make-up and hair-paint is to make someone look different.
No, make-up when applied correctly is to enhance natural looks, not change a person's appearance. :)
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Not for only her looks, I liked to talk with her.
Again, you're admitting that you liked more than her looks, but the minute you found out that she used makeup, you threw her out of her life. Do you honestly not see how shallow that is?
Hmm...
It may be hard to explain...
Try harder, please.
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The shallowness of males never ceases to amaze me.
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Geeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Not again.
I have some real friends that I can talk with about really deep things and that I walue, because of who they are, not how they look.
The problem is that she was attracting people by her looks and by other cheap tricks like buying everyone coffe etc.
One important difference between me and that girl was that I was a loner and I was interested in deeper relationships with single persons and that she liked a company and attention of large groups of people, and was ironicaly rather shallow (not by lack of intelectual capabilities, but by wasting time on too many people).
Combination of those two characters doesn't make a good and lasting friendship.
Not for only her looks, I liked to talk with her.
Again, you're admitting that you liked more than her looks, but the minute you found out that she used makeup, you threw her out of her life. Do you honestly not see how shallow that is?
Hmm...
It may be hard to explain...
Try harder, please.
I knew that she used make-up before, it was more about the hair paint, I didn't like the contrast between who she was physicaly and who she pretended to be.
I don't know.
Liking someone "because" they add certain quality to my life is always shallow.
Some people are annoying, but charming with look good and the person same person may be merely annoying when doesn't have good looks, because good looks trigger certain reactions that make spending time with that person subjectively more interesting.
It's called glamour, or something...
Since she had some already annoying habits, that was just too much and I started to openly despise her.
I don't know...
I think that it has something to do with the fact, that when I met first her I practicaly got fell in love with her from the first sight.
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I knew that she used make-up before, it was more about the hair paint, I didn't like the contrast between who she was physicaly and who she pretended to be.
Why is pretense so offensive to you? If someone feels self -protective or insecure or is simply testing boundaries, why do you find it so objectionable? It does not appear that conformity is the issue as you have no objection to people conforming to your ideals and ideas.
One important difference between me and that girl was that I was a loner and I was interested in deeper relationships with single persons and that she liked a company and attention of large groups of people, and was ironicaly rather shallow (not by lack of intelectual capabilities, but by wasting time on too many people).
Combination of those two characters doesn't make a good and lasting friendship.
It could be argued that the exact opposite is true, opposites can attract and each can enhance the other's traits and life. Do you really want only to be with people who are just like you? Such a choice seems a self-limiting path to follow.
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@Ghrey - you bastard! I spilled tea because of you! ;D This thread's getting better and better. :)
@Sorrow - If you don't like make-up that much why is your avatar wearing one?
EDIT>Syntax.
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Why is pretense so offensive to you? If someone feels self -protective or insecure or is simply testing boundaries, why do you find it so objectionable? It does not appear that conformity is the issue as you have no objection to people conforming to your ideals and ideas.
So, why people don't like being subject of the Charm Person spell?
Why people don't like posers?
Why I don't like pretense?
It usually has opposite effects to the ones wanted, when it is revealed.
I mean that when it becomes known, usually, people who thought that it was truth, feel cheated.
It could be argued that the exact opposite is true, opposites can attract and each can enhance the other's traits and life. Do you really want only to be with people who are just like you? Such a choice seems a self-limiting path to follow.
I don't want to be with onlly with people who are just like me, because I'm the only one persen who is just like me.
I have some friends that are different from me, but what attrats me to them are similarities, not differences.
As for a self-limiting path...
I found her company rather limiting.
Nice, but limiting anyway.
I prefer peoples company to be nice and enhancing.
Sometimes I think that one becomes an attractive person by being among people and becomes deeper and interesting person by being alone.
I think that balance between solitude and company is very important.
@Sorrow - If you don't like make-up that much why is your avatar wearing one?
I don't know.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that it is a scenic make-up, or rather face-paint.
Hmm...
I think that this avatar is outdated, because I don't listen to Cradle of Filth anymore.
I'm keeping this one because I'm to lazy to draw myself a new avatar.
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Whee! 1000 posts! Well now 1001, cause I've not noticed. Well, yeah I've nothing intersting to say at the moment, and I won't touch some stuff from this thread cause I'm a nice lovable guy. :P
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Congratulations ;D.
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I don't think there is anything wrong if someone tries to make friends by making themselves look nice and buying coffee.
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It's incredibly shallow to dismiss someone because they wear makeup. Yes, if you want to get down to the nitty-gritty, I suppose you could make the argument that wearing makeup means you're trying to be something you're not. But the same could be said for people who wear black clothing or vertical stripes. Or shoes with big soles/heels. Or a nice haircut. If we did absolutely nothing to our bodies other than bathe, we'd all likely be hideous.
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Yeah, I really despise tough guys who are actually really nice, people who talk trash but helps out the homeless whenever they can, the ever so popular dark-hero-who-is-really-well-intentioned, etc. It just boils me up when a vicious-looking gangster helps an old lady across the street instead of mugging her.
You know why? because they are all posers for trying to pretend they are something they're not. The Hypocrites. >:(
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:D
It's incredibly shallow to dismiss someone because they wear makeup. Yes, if you want to get down to the nitty-gritty, I suppose you could make the argument that wearing makeup means you're trying to be something you're not. But the same could be said for people who wear black clothing or vertical stripes. Or shoes with big soles/heels. Or a nice haircut. If we did absolutely nothing to our bodies other than bathe, we'd all likely be hideous.
What it has to do with the situation that I have described?
And who said that I did dismiss her because she wears makeup?
As for amount of things done to our bodies...
There are many different standards of beauty, some of which are contradicting with others.
Make-up can be hideous too, especialy if it's badly done.
I met very few people who are skilled in make-up enough to actually look better when wearing it.
Anyway, my dislike for make-up is rather connected with my aesthetical sense than with any ideology.
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:D
I believe notasophist was going for sarcasm, not sincerity.
And who said that I did dismiss her because she wears makeup?
You did:
I used to know a girl who was very pretty and had very beautiful honey-blonde hair and I was very impressed with her looks.
About year after meeting her first time I've met her without make-up and without natural hair and she was ugly and looked very unhealthy.
I got pissed at her and never met her again, because I hate being tricked and she tricked me and other people that she looks better than she looks.
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Let's put it this way:
Most people think they hate hypocrisy; they don't. They just don't like being disappointed.
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Yeah.
Finally someone found out what I was talking about.
I was disappointed and disenchanted.
Not that that was a big thing that would break friendship with person that is genuinely interesting.
:D
I believe notasophist was going for sarcasm, not sincerity.
I appreciate good sarcasm.
I didn't dismiss her because she wears make-up, but because I she was annoying me.
I don't think there is anything wrong if someone tries to make friends by making themselves look nice and buying coffee.
I don't know.
Personally, I prefer people who make friends by being interesting persons.
People who make friends by buying them things are often perceived as less valuable persons by those who they give things.
And people who make friends by looking nice risk that their friends will like them for looking nice, which often has bad consequences.
I don't think that it's a good base for friendship or love.
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You know, you sound just like a scientist who is mad at reality for not in accordance with his hypothesis.
"Damn you Nature! Damn you for not subscribing to my vision!"
Since you deny deception to be the problem, but rather the girl's unattractiveness. I think that pretty much qualifies as shallowness.
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Sorrow, you placed an overly high value on your friend's looks. She isn't to blame for that. Why on earth was it so important that she be pretty all the time? That's impossible. Just as no-one can be pleasant all the time, or patient, or any other characteristic. The discovery that your friend wore make-up sounds like an excuse for breaking up the friendship. What's with this "one mistake and it's over" thing? Setting impossible standards is a great strategy if you want to avoid intimacy, but you can't then lay the blame on others for the failure of the relationship.
Despising women for wearing make-up has been around ever since women started wearing it. At first, women who wore it were tagged "bad" - attracting attention and enhancing their sexuality. "Good" women were not supposed to wear it. As more and more women wore it, they were criticised for "unnaturalness". Truly beautiful women didn't need to wear make-up, and a woman who wore it was deceiving and false. As women continued to wear make-up, capitalism realised that loads of money could be made out of it, and then wearing make-up became de riguer. It was every woman's duty to wear make-up, and enhance her personal looks. Women who rejected wearing make-up then became "bad." They were frumps and feminists.
The moral of this story is, if you keep on criticising your friend for choosing to wear make-up -because she likes it, because she wants to cover up "flaws" in her features, or whatever- a big bunch of angry feminists are going to come around and harangue you mercilessly on the topic of the right of women to freely make choices about their appearance, without having to get your permission.
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I don't think there is anything wrong if someone tries to make friends by making themselves look nice and buying coffee.
I don't know.
Personally, I prefer people who make friends by being interesting persons.
People who make friends by buying them things are often perceived as less valuable persons by those who they give things.
And people who make friends by looking nice risk that their friends will like them for looking nice, which often has bad consequences.
I don't think that it's a good base for friendship or love.
I prefer that too, but am not too fussy. I have interesting/no morals.
I agree with NotASophist's point about disappointment, too.
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I like wearing black clothes. Come to think of it most of my clothes are black. I guess that means I am either fond of the clergy or I like looking goth, devilish, morbid.
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Sorrow, you placed an overly high value on your friend's looks. She isn't to blame for that. Why on earth was it so important that she be pretty all the time? That's impossible. Just as no-one can be pleasant all the time, or patient, or any other characteristic. The discovery that your friend wore make-up sounds like an excuse for breaking up the friendship. What's with this "one mistake and it's over" thing? Setting impossible standards is a great strategy if you want to avoid intimacy, but you can't then lay the blame on others for the failure of the relationship.
I'm not setting impossible standards.
My best friend happens to have dyed hair and seems to like piercing, but he is an interesting person.
And I didn't even hate make-up when I broken up friendship, because I wasn't thinking about any philosophy behind the way I look and other people look.
I just say that looks are strongly connected with personal charm and that good looks can help make friends but aren't a good base to start a friendship, especially if they are artificial.
If friendship is based on personal charm, or glamour as some people would say, it's better if it's genuine.
As for that girl's looks...
I knew that she wore make up and I have seen her without make-up before, and as I said I was more disappointed with her hair - to me hair are very important part of persons look (that's why I hate cutting my hair - hairdressers always cut them too short >:(. Last time I cut my hair, I hated everyone and everything [especially mirrors] for about month :() because they can make person look unique and charming and can drasticaly alter how the person is perceived by other people (That's why I tend to dislike bald people.).
As I said, when I met her first time, she had beatiful honey-blonde hair that looked a bit like an aureole, and I think that they gave her certain charisma.
When I met her last time, she had ugly, matt hair of indeterminate colour.
When she lost her glamour she became an uninteresting, rather shallow girl.
If there's a moral in this story it would rather be: "If you aren't really beautiful, better spend some money on good books and become an interesting person instead of spending money on buying friends meals in restaurants."
Despising women for wearing make-up has been around ever since women started wearing it. At first, women who wore it were tagged "bad" - attracting attention and enhancing their sexuality. "Good" women were not supposed to wear it. As more and more women wore it, they were criticised for "unnaturalness". Truly beautiful women didn't need to wear make-up, and a woman who wore it was deceiving and false. As women continued to wear make-up, capitalism realised that loads of money could be made out of it, and then wearing make-up became de riguer. It was every woman's duty to wear make-up, and enhance her personal looks. Women who rejected wearing make-up then became "bad." They were frumps and feminists.
I'm not despising women for wearing make-up, I just despise make-up and people who direct the mass brain washing.
My despise for make-up has several reasons, aesthetical, financial and ideological.
Err...
Who are frumps?
Anyway, as I said I'm in this world not to blindly follow, but to create new way.
If people dislike it, it's their problem.
Problem with fashion and social norms is that usually they are created by people who I regard as vermin.
There's no place for compromise or surrender.
Personally I dislike wearing make-up, jevelry, restrictive clotches etc.
And I really, really hate high-heeled boots, because they are unhealthy and it's hard to run, jump etc. in them.
Taking in account how dangerous are streets, depriving oneself from mobility is a bad idea.
The moral of this story is, if you keep on criticising your friend for choosing to wear make-up
Err...
Which friend?
As women continued to wear make-up, capitalism realised that loads of money could be made out of it, and then wearing make-up became de riguer. It was every woman's duty to wear make-up, and enhance her personal looks. Women who rejected wearing make-up then became "bad." They were frumps and feminists.
The moral of this story is, if you keep on criticising your friend for choosing to wear make-up -because she likes it, because she wants to cover up "flaws" in her features, or whatever- a big bunch of angry feminists are going to come around and harangue you mercilessly on the topic of the right of women to freely make choices about their appearance, without having to get your permission.
:D
Maybe.
From the other side I don't complain when a girl/woman tells me that I look better with a bit shorter hair/beard, so I see nothing wrong in telling girl that she looks better without make-up.
Of course it's completely pointless, because a)they are brainwashed and think that wearing make-up is their duty, b)they really think that their very unprofessional make-up looks good, c)people learn norms that are hard to destroy without experiences that prove that the norm may be incorrect.
I like wearing black clothes. Come to think of it most of my clothes are black. I guess that means I am either fond of the clergy or I like looking goth, devilish, morbid.
I like wearing black clotches too :D .
Black clotches are very aesthetic, even if they are very simple.
Black is deep and fascinating :D .
It's hard to find not-black clothes that are really aesthetic.
I usually wear black t-shirt, black tracksuit trouser and sometimes black sweater :) .
Lord Vetinari wears black :) .
Black also makes me look slimmer, but I don't think it's a positive thing.
Some of my T-shirts are red, but I don't like them anymore.
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Sorrow, what is your opinion on sideburns? Awesome: Y/N? Full beards? What about women who don't shave their pits? Or women with full beards?
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"Get used to disappointment." - Westley, the Princess Bride.
It'll make you happier.
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Sorrow, what is your opinion on sideburns? Awesome: Y/N? Full beards? What about women who don't shave their pits? Or women with full beards?
I don't like full beards, nor sideburns, I prefer to trim my beard with scissors (I hate shaving).
I don't shave my pits.
Women with full beards?
Ugh.
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Well, jeez, that means one of us is a freak. I don't like beards, sideburns kick ass, and my pits are as stink-free as possible, which includes hair. Question is, which of us is the authority on the matter?
That's right, neither one. So just relax and realise that the world is not in fact your oyster, you aren't a shining star, you're not the only one that matters, and so on and so forth. Live and let live, and all that jazz.
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Also, sif hate jewelery. Jewelery owns!
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Sorrow, what is your opinion on sideburns? Awesome: Y/N? Full beards? What about women who don't shave their pits? Or women with full beards?
I have a majestic auburn beard which I use as a portable iguana egg incubator. I plan to use the iguana eggs in leiu of chicken eggs for making various vaccines when the avian flu wipes out the viable egg supply -- thus, I grow them when and where I can.
The end.
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Sorrow, you placed an overly high value on your friend's looks. She isn't to blame for that. Why on earth was it so important that she be pretty all the time? That's impossible.
Nah, that's why nature inveted a state of mind we call "love". It allows a person to be astonishingly beautiful 24h/day. 8)
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Also, sif hate jewelery. Jewelery owns!
I'd have to say I agree, but it's conditional. Women have to either make, buy, or tell me to buy jewellery before I'll wear it. This is because I am either insecure, a neanderthal, or both, but... shuddup.
Oh, and what does sif mean?
I have a majestic auburn beard which I use as a portable iguana egg incubator. I plan to use the iguana eggs in leiu of chicken eggs for making various vaccines when the avian flu wipes out the viable egg supply -- thus, I grow them when and where I can.
The end.
Hawt.
(Also socially pro-active. Well done.)
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Sorrow, you placed an overly high value on your friend's looks. She isn't to blame for that. Why on earth was it so important that she be pretty all the time? That's impossible.
Nah, that's why nature inveted a state of mind we call "love". It allows a person to be astonishingly beautiful 24h/day. 8)
Yup :D .
And makes world really small and ideological diifferences seem to be unimoportant :) .
I dislike jevelry, because it begs to be stolen and indicates that the person that is wearing it actually has any money.
Having money attracts trouble, so it's good to look like someone that doesn't have anything worth stealing :D.
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sif = as if.
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Despising women for wearing make-up has been around ever since women started wearing it. At first, women who wore it were tagged "bad" - attracting attention and enhancing their sexuality. "Good" women were not supposed to wear it. As more and more women wore it, they were criticised for "unnaturalness". Truly beautiful women didn't need to wear make-up, and a woman who wore it was deceiving and false. As women continued to wear make-up, capitalism realised that loads of money could be made out of it, and then wearing make-up became de riguer. It was every woman's duty to wear make-up, and enhance her personal looks. Women who rejected wearing make-up then became "bad." They were frumps and feminists.
I don't know if this negative attitude towards make-up is verifiable for its very beginning (which is dated in Ancient Egypt). Beauty and hygiene was very important for Egyptians, men and women alike. They oiled their skin to prevent it from being sunburnt, used chewing gum against bad breath and put on eye shadow, not only because of aesthetic but also for medical reasons (it acted as a disinfectant).
Of course, later on there were times where make-up was not suitable for "decent" women, but rather for actors and prostitutes (as in the 19th century), but there were also other periods where it was fashionable and a must-have at court (as in the baroque era). IMO it was not one coherent development as you describe it.
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I don't like beards, sideburns kick ass, and my pits are as stink-free as possible, which includes hair.
... are you saying you shave your armpits? Or am I misreading?
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Heheh, yep.
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Despising women for wearing make-up has been around ever since women started wearing it. At first, women who wore it were tagged "bad" - attracting attention and enhancing their sexuality. "Good" women were not supposed to wear it. As more and more women wore it, they were criticised for "unnaturalness".
I don't know if this negative attitude towards make-up is verifiable for its very beginning (which is dated in Ancient Egypt).
I think that there is a certain misconception and misunderstanding.
I've never met a person that said that wearing make-up is bad because of some ideological reasons and that there's a negative attitude towards make-up as such.
I would rather say that there are people that like natural looking - i.e. clean faces.
Person that is attracted to clean faces often sees make-up as dirt - i.e. something that they don't want to see on their faces.
There's nothing ideological in that.
There's a basic difference in perception that creates misunderstanding between people who like make-up and those who don't like it for aesthetic reason.
Clean face - face without any visible substances smeared over it.
"Dirty" face - face with visible substances smeared over it.
Of course, the fact that the thing that I see as dirt is expensive and is promoted something that woman should wear to be attractive is very, very annoying to me, because it makes the chance of looking at face without make-up drasticaly lesser.
Personally I'm more attracted to clean faces and I find girls that wear badly done make-up completely unattractive (most of girls/women in my country is unable to correctly wear [prepare?] make-up) and those who wear properly done make-up are uninteresting to me, because they look too smooth.
They look too smooth for me, because I like the certain "rough" (I'm not sure if it's a good word) quality that natural skin and looks have.
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I don't know if this negative attitude towards make-up is verifiable for its very beginning (which is dated in Ancient Egypt)...Of course, later on there were times where make-up was not suitable for "decent" women, but rather for actors and prostitutes (as in the 19th century), but there were also other periods where it was fashionable and a must-have at court (as in the baroque era). IMO it was not one coherent development as you describe it.
Make-up has never been questionable when men wanted to wear it. I should have said I am basing my statements on my knowledge of English culture: Donne, Bacon, Shakespeare, Marvell, Wollstonecraft, Hardy, Bronte, Wilde, Shaw, all make references to the views current to their society. Generally the embargo was applied to middle-class women. Other cultures have different views - in Japan it was acceptable for upper-class women to wear because of traditions regarding it.
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Goth men wear makeup. :o
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Or they never take it off so you can't tell.
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Dear Sorrow, the way you carry yourself makes me wonder if you recently crawled out of a cave. If you're so adamant about certain feminine traits [such as makeup] then maybe you’re looking to find love in the wrong gender. ;)
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lighten up dude. Have a drink and be merry!Zx :-*
what was we talkin about? Men and makeup? Men in make up is cool. show off yur femmine side.
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Dear Sorrow, the way you carry yourself makes me wonder if you recently crawled out of a cave.
I find your statement rather offensive.
1. I don't crawl.
2. I don't live in the cave
3. I wash my hair every day
4. I shower at least two times a day
5. I use deodorant
6. I don't use make-up nor facepaint
I used to use more cosmetics, but I discovered that sometimes staying natural is more healthy and less painful.
If you're so adamant about certain feminine traits [such as makeup] then maybe you’re looking to find love in the wrong gender. ;)
That's why I hate words "masculine" and "feminine".
They mean nothing and create only unnecesary conflicts and hatred.
Also, they provide an excellent excuse for not working on oneself.
One can say "I'm man/woman and my flaws are masculine/feminine and you hate men/women and you are sexist I hate you, I wish all women/men died.".
I'm rather drawn to psychologicaly androgynous than to people who are gender-polarized(i.e. effeminate women and emasculated men) ones.
In fact, I find gender-polarized people grotesque and annoying.
I think that make-up is a personal trait, not gender one.
Make-up producers try to force the perception of maku-up as gender trait (And they are succesfull in doing so), but some people are sceptic enough to be immune to their machinations :).
lighten up dude. Have a drink and be merry!Zx :-*
;D
what was we talkin about? Men and makeup? Men in make up is cool. show off yur femmine side.
I possess much of stereotypicaly "feminine traits", so I don't need make-up to be more "femmine" :P.
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I don't think you meant to use the word emasculate there.
Also, most people who are psychologically something are going to tend to adjust their physical appearance to match. I'd femaleise my face if I had the slightest idea about makeup. Or at least de-maleise. I was going to look into long term hair removal stuff, but money is short.
Also, what do washing your hair, showering twice a day+ (twice a day, wtf? Once should be enough!) and using deoderant and makeup have to do with your place of residence and movement methods?
Also, how is your statement that "WOMEN SHOULD NEVER WEAR MAKEUP" any different to "WOMEN SHOULD ALWAYS WEAR MAKEUP" (aside from one has never and the other has always).
As for peope who fall into traditional gender stereotypes, it depends on the person. I have some supermasculine male friends who are fabulous, and some supermasculine males I know, I can't stand. It depends on more than just if they're a gender polary or not.
And as for your feminine traits. I'm yet to see them. Only one that's coming through here is insistence that you're right despite whatever opposition you might face, and a derivation of superiority from said position. which is a MALE trait. If we'regoing along those lines.
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If we'regoing along those lines.
Let's not go along those lines. First snow has fallen, temperature finally dropped below zero , the world is beutiful! Let's go for a walk or something, forgive the sins of youth etc.
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1. I don't crawl.
2. I don't live in the cave
3. I wash my hair every day
4. I shower at least two times a day
5. I use deodorant
6. I don't use make-up nor facepaint
That explains it all. Your need to prove you're right everytime, and habits indicate you must have some sort of obsessive-compulsive disorder.
I used to use more cosmetics, but I discovered that sometimes staying natural is more healthy and less painful.
??? I don't know what type of make up you used in the past, but it's not supposed to be painful. Some cosmetic products not only enhance beauty, but actually contain ingredients that are beneficial to your skin.
If you're so adamant about certain feminine traits [such as makeup] then maybe you’re looking to find love in the wrong gender. ;)
That's why I hate words "masculine" and "feminine".
They mean nothing and create only unnecesary conflicts and hatred.
Also, they provide an excellent excuse for not working on oneself.
One can say "I'm man/woman and my flaws are masculine/feminine and you hate men/women and you are sexist I hate you, I wish all women/men died.".
I'm rather drawn to psychologicaly androgynous than to people who are gender-polarized(i.e. effeminate women and emasculated men) ones.
In fact, I find gender-polarized people grotesque and annoying.
I think that make-up is a personal trait, not gender one.
Make-up producers try to force the perception of maku-up as gender trait (And they are succesfull in doing so), but some people are sceptic enough to be immune to their machinations :).
I'm bored with you now. Your whole superiority complex and inability to accept that as human beings we tend to be diverse is sad, laughable, and irritating. Good luck with your holy trail, I hope you find your perfect girl.
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If we'regoing along those lines.
Let's not go along those lines. First snow has fallen, temperature finally dropped below zero , the world is beutiful! Let's go for a walk or something, forgive the sins of youth etc.
There's no snow here.
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If we'regoing along those lines.
Let's not go along those lines. First snow has fallen, temperature finally dropped below zero , the world is beutiful! Let's go for a walk or something, forgive the sins of youth etc.
There's no snow here.
Poor you... But you will have it later on? Or are in one of those places impossible to live in where the snow does not fall?
EDIT>Grammar
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There's snow near where I live . . . but oddly enough, Philadelphia tends to be warmer than the burbs that are only 10 or so miles away from it. Our temperature has stayed above the 20's so far. Our entire winter has been extremely warm. Just last week it was in the 70's. God knows why.
I used to shower twice a day back when I played hockey. But yeah. It's very bad for your skin and hair to shower too much.
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Yeah, I'm a shover addict :(.
I guess I have to do something with this :).
I don't think you meant to use the word emasculate there.
Also, most people who are psychologically something are going to tend to adjust their physical appearance to match. I'd femaleise my face if I had the slightest idea about makeup. Or at least de-maleise. I was going to look into long term hair removal stuff, but money is short.
Physical appearance is irrevelant to psychological traits.
Psychological androgyny is rather about removing masculine/feminine tags from various traits and behaviour and picking those that makes one a complete human being than adjusting ones physical appearance.
Actually realising that I don't have to change much about my physical appearance was a liberating experience.
I had a brief obsession with removing most of my body hair(especially my legs hair^^ . All those models have so smooth legs. I wanted to have smoooooooth and sexy legs toooooooooooooooo ;D), but it was really brief and now I can't imagine myself without leg hair and I don't find girls with shaved legs so attractive as before.
Also, what do washing your hair, showering twice a day+ (twice a day, wtf? Once should be enough!) and using deoderant and makeup have to do with your place of residence and movement methods?
Nothing, but it was my response to being compared to a caveman ;D.
I need shover at least twice a day - after waking up (to be fresh and not sweaty) and before going to sleep.
Also, how is your statement that "WOMEN SHOULD NEVER WEAR MAKEUP" any different to "WOMEN SHOULD ALWAYS WEAR MAKEUP" (aside from one has never and the other has always).
And where I said that "WOMEN SHOULD NEVER WEAR MAKEUP"?I don't recall saying so^^.
Saying that "WOMEN SHOULD NEVER WEAR MAKEUP" would be a tyrany.
I said that I prefer to look at girls/women that don't wear make-up and I dislike looking at girls/women that don't wear make-up.
But I like when girls/women choice not to wear make-up.
And as for your feminine traits. I'm yet to see them. Only one that's coming through here is insistence that you're right despite whatever opposition you might face, and a derivation of superiority from said position. which is a MALE trait. If we'regoing along those lines.
1. learned it from my mother, therefore it's a feminine trait :D.
It's feminine, because my mother is a woman.
So, it's either a feminine trait, or it proves my point about inexistence of feminine and masculine traits^^.
2. I never said that I feel superior, I would rather say that I feel frustrated^^.
Also, I tend to get convinced by other people if they are evidently right and I'm evidently wrong.
The problem in this discussion is that each side is right or wrong depending on what they value more.
This discussion is tiring me, because I don't like conflicts, but I think that presenting my world view and my reasons for it is more improtant than my psychological discomfort.
From the history of my country I've learned that being silent about ones ideals and experiences is the best way to make them die out
As for keeping my position regardless of opposition, I retreated from position of hating everyone who drink, so I don't see this argument as valid.
3. It's hard to see any non-war-related traits of someone who is writing in a discussion which is at least as stressful as religious and political threads^^.
4. I shouldn't say that I have feminine traits, because I didn't find any evidence that supports their existance.
I've seen universal and cultural traits being called feminine or masculine, but they aren't really feminine or masculine by themselves.
Usualy, feminine traits are also masculine traits that have other name so calling them masculine or feminine is sexism.
??? I don't know what type of make up you used in the past, but it's not supposed to be painful. Some cosmetic products not only enhance beauty, but actually contain ingredients that are beneficial to your skin.
Sorry, I was writing about things that people to do to alter their looks in general.
For example I recently discovered why my skin hurts for about two weeks after shaving, no matter if I shaved clean or left few milimeters of hair.
Curly, sharpened hair and skin don't get along :/.
As for cosmetic products, I prefer to include ingredients that are beneficia to my skin in my diet. It's cheaper and less tedious than rubbing various creams, balsam etc. into skin...
Yeah and it smells less.
I'm bored with you now. Your whole superiority complex and inability to accept that as human beings we tend to be diverse is sad, laughable, and irritating.
I'm defending diversity.
I'm tired with ongoing standardisation of human beings.
For example the damned make-up thing - if there were diversity, there would be a significant amount of girls/women dislike make-up.
There aren't.
Why?
Because pictures in magazines show that women wear make-up.
Why?
Because magazines are created by people that believe that women should wear make-up or people who want to sell make-up.
So, where is the diversity?
I've never seen a magazine for men/women that actively promotes natural looks.
Why?
It's hard to make money on people who look naturally.
It's all about money.
Same for drinking.
Beer=fun
Party=drinking=fun
Alcohol producers are doing very much people believe that there is no fun without alcohol.
If there was a diversity, there would be a lot of movies portraing people having fun on parties without drinking and there would be parties for non drinking people.
But there aren't.
So, where's the diversity?
There's no chance for diversity, when standards are created by people who sell products that are needed to comply to them.
Oh, one more thing:
How this quote
If you're so adamant about certain feminine traits [such as makeup] then maybe you’re looking to find love in the wrong gender. ;)
relates to your statement about diversity?
Diversity sugests coexistence of females that like and wear make-up and females that don't like nor wear make-up and thus would invalidate the statement about make-up being a feminine trait.
[edited for grammar]
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I have to say that I did not give this thread much of a lifespan when it started, but now I must admit that you, Sorrow, can be quite adamant when defending your positions. Perhaps one day you will tire of discussions about personal hygiene and join the ranks of those who are welcomed and praised everywhere by moderators and the general public alike: the duellists in the religious and political threads which can start out as little as with the question what Kelsey's haircolour might be. Although there is a hint of feminism in here I still must say that it is way to personal to make it an earnest debate about stuff which does not belong here.
Oh well, carry on.
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There's snow near where I live . . . but oddly enough, Philadelphia tends to be warmer than the burbs that are only 10 or so miles away from it. Our temperature has stayed above the 20's so far. Our entire winter has been extremely warm. Just last week it was in the 70's. God knows why.
You live in a colder climate than I do, but technically winter doesn't start until December 21st (22nd?). Of course, here in Oregon winter doesn't really exist. We have a 360-day-per-year rain festival in Portland. ::) The five days a year that it doesn't rain, it just doesn't do anything, especially snow. If, somehow we do get snow, half an inch is enough to send the schools into panic mode and people with SUVs manage to get themselves stuck at the side of the road. It's pathetic.
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I have to say that I did not give this thread much of a lifespan when it started, but now I must admit that you, Sorrow, can be quite adamant when defending your positions. Perhaps one day you will tire of discussions about personal hygiene and join the ranks of those who are welcomed and praised everywhere by moderators and the general public alike: the duellists in the religious and political threads which can start out as little as with the question what Kelsey's haircolour might be. Although there is a hint of feminism in here I still must say that it is way to personal to make it an earnest debate about stuff which does not belong here.
Oh well, carry on.
Argument regarding aesthetics (or any matter), as long as everyone believes that personal views should be respected, will always degenerate to personal attacks. Such is the characteristic of "tolerance," methinks, for it denies arguments any proper standards of judgment. I must admit ,howeve, that shaming the opponent into submission is quite enjoyble and effective.
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Borsook, it's spring here. We only get snow in the highest mountains of the south-eastern states in winter. I would have been confused by your eagerness to leap out into the snow in a wtf? sort of way, but knowing that you despise umbrellas, all becomes clear. I bet you like hiking.
I know it's time for a new thread because my eyes are refusing to read any of Sorrow's further comments, and Notasophist is not making any sense to me. I'm usually quite good at detecting irony and humour, but I'm sad to say, I just don't understand.
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The Red Death holds sway over all...
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Huh ???
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A quote from Stephen King's The Shining which probably is a reference to Poe's " THE MASQUE OF THE RED DEATH". At the end it says "And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all."
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Ah.
Is this an allusion to the nature of the untimely demise of this thread?
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I don't know about the rest of you, but 7 pages is plenty timely for me.
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Yeah, I tend to avoid party invitations like that Black Raven mentioned.
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Borsook, it's spring here. We only get snow in the highest mountains of the south-eastern states in winter. I would have been confused by your eagerness to leap out into the snow in a wtf? sort of way, but knowing that you despise umbrellas, all becomes clear. I bet you like hiking.
You bet ya! I spent most of my childhood living on the border of a forest (or a wood? In Polish we have "las" and "puszcza" the second one being much, much larger and that was the second kind) Now I live in a huge city and I'm getting pretty restless. BTW last night it was seriously snowing and everything is white white white! ;D
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I like the snow. It's pretty and cold like myself. ;)
I miss being in the woods at the grandparents house during winter. Winter walks are so romantic.
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In my city it's grey and cold...
And people don't clean up the mess their dogs make, so it's grey, cold and full of shit :D.
Yeah.
And judging by the smell, people use plastic bootles to warm their houses ;D.
I so love Poland ;D.
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In my city it's grey and cold...
And people don't clean up the mess their dogs make, so it's grey, cold and full of shit :D.
Yeah.
And judging by the smell, people use plastic bootles to warm their houses ;D.
I so love Poland ;D.
Hey it's not the dogs' fault people built cities around them. It'll all quite quickly disolve which cannot be said about the mess people make and don't clean up after themselves.
EDIT>PS don't we live in the same city?
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Nope. I live in the infamous City of Executioners :).
But it's people's fault that they don't clean up the mess their dogs make.
It'll disolve...
...
in spring
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Nope. I live in the infamous City of Executioners :).
you lost me there...
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Katowice ;D
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Frozen poo is a terrible thing.
I... just think that needs to be said. *shakes fist at inconsiderate dog owners in cold climes*
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This thing makes its worst in spring when the snow thaws and... holy shit it is all around, watch your step... DAAAAAAMN !!!
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How far this thread has degenerated.
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How far this thread has degenerated.
Does this surprise you? ;)
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Frozen poo is an important topic!