Pocket Plane Group
BG2 Completed Mods => Turnabout => Topic started by: Ashara on October 03, 2005, 06:48:32 PM
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I would very much like to see him around, since we can have Chade. :pirate
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Who and who?
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It's a reference to the Gorion portrait we chose from the Assassin's Apprentice cover art.
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So, will you comment on the copy-right aspect of it and the game-breaking familiarity of the image, or let it be?
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It's a copyright violation. I'm sorry it's familiar to you.
How's that?
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Sounds about right. So, when you guys are going to repalce this mighty irritant to the author who expilcetly forbids even fanfiction for her books in your mod with a flawless choice? Oh, yep, this is like my #2 post on this subject and you did not yet taken any measures!!!! What an obvious failure to accept constructive crititsism! What a complete way to ignore negative feedback!!!
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Oh, forgot to add: What a horrible, horrible mod! Not only it breaks the fourth wall by substituting Gorion with Chade, it's also has Tiax and Dynaheir speaking absolutely out of character!
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Last I checked, Gorion has no official portrait to "substitute."
As a friendly reminder, if you're having a bad morning and feel the need to vent, you might want to log in rather than guest post, because that way you can go back and edit your posts later.
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Trolling while logged in? What blasphemy is that?! Gorion does have an original portrait, in the opening movie of BG2.
The point is, that the portrait you are using is firmly and unequivocably Chade, form a book cover, no less, thus substtituting Gorion with Chade. And this is my logic, and it is the rightest one!
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Plus, it increases the post count! I am shooting for at least 200 posts on the topic of this major deficiency!
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Gorion does have an original portrait, in the opening movie of BG2.
There is a line art profile of him, yes, but that's not really suitable for our purposes.
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Unless there is an artist in the community who can turn the line art into BG style portrait. But honestly, can't you procure a portrait for Gorion that is not a book cover art, especially for a character that has little at all in common with Gorion and written by a person who is extremely fastidious about her proprietary rights? Unless, of course, in your interpretation Gorion is a scarred assassin-master and a bastard brother to a king and PC is his by-blow nephew or a hapless Queen's lady-in-waiting?
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The odds that Lindholm owns the rights to that portrait are pretty slim, Domi. Far more likely it's in the hands of the artist or the publisher. Furthermore, we found it on several BG2 portrait sites--so "fastidiousness" has not yet seemed to be a problem where BG2 use is concerned. Although it is not the way I normally like to do things, it fit basically all of my requirements for Turnabout, and so I used it with credit given to the artist since we were lucky enough to stumble across that information.
And by your reasoning, we could just as easily discuss why you are not using character themes which don't invoke Star Trek, Fallout, Star Wars, etc. But I would find that boring, so let's not.
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it fit basically all of my requirements for Turnabout
What, it being Chade is a requirement for Turnabout? There is a difference between using it for your own personal character and slapping a known 'canon' image of character on another 'canon' character. If that pool tells me that I summpned Gorion, and I go: "Eh... Chade? What ther hell are you doing here?!"
With music we have 0 choice - as far as I know there are exactly 0 people in the community who can orchestrate an instrumental piece in BG style. There are at least 2 I know of who do original art, and many, many more who do portrait editing. Are you telling me that PPG cannot come up with one person to do one original portrait for Gorion?
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it's also has Tiax [...] speaking absolutely out of character!
I like Andyr's writing personally.
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I think it's sad that bearing in mind Domi's been trying to bait PPG for absolutely ages, *this* is actually the best thing she's come up with in the mod criticism department. Personally, I'd find it very reassuring for the overally quality of the mods here.
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I like Andyr's writing personally.
So do I, usually. But I agree with Kulyok's remark that Tiax sounded out of character.
I think it's sad that bearing in mind Domi's been trying to bait PPG for absolutely ages, *this* is actually the best thing she's come up with in the mod criticism department. Personally, I'd find it very reassuring for the overally quality of the mods here.
Domi had never been baiting PPG, she just found something that jumped into the person's eye on PPG's homepage. I am not the one to dig in the TRAs. So, I decided to return the favor and provide constructive critisism in 200 volumes. Such as Gorion is not Chade and it is entirely hilareous giving the nature of petty nit-picks that PPG allows themselves to blow out of proportion in other people's mods that they would clung to such an obvious and glaring flaw.
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oh! And I happen to be a big fan of Robin Hobb's Farseers series. ;)
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And I restate my request, since Chade is in, I want Fitz importable into ToB as well. Or Fool, why, Fool would even fit the concept even better!
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Such as Gorion is not Chade and it is entirely hilareous giving the nature of petty nit-picks that PPG allows themselves to blow out of proportion in other people's mods that they would clung to such an obvious and glaring flaw.
For somebody who claims not to be baiting PPG, you seem to have an awful lot of issues with them. Jealous of jcompton's writing, probably.
And I restate my request, since Chade is in, I want Fitz importable into ToB as well. Or Fool, why, Fool would even fit the concept even better!
I think some forums I know would delete your posts and ban you from posting for such an off-topic remark.
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For somebody who claims not to be baiting PPG, you seem to have an awful lot of issues with them. Jealous of jcompton's writing, probably.
Actually, nope. I have little problems with Compton's writing, but I also do not envy his style. I envy the writing of two people: GRR Martin and GG Kay in fantasy world.
My issue with PPG had always been but one: SimDing0's horrible attack on BG1NPC last spring that left me with a lasting trauma. So, I am checking how hypocritical they are and if they can take it themselves.
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I think some forums I know would delete your posts and ban you from posting for such an off-topic remark.
Ah, it hurts! That's so ON topic! Fool comes from the same book that Chade is, and since Chade is in... I think Fool would have been better: he was a character who after horrible tortures died, hiding his soul in a Rooster Crown and then was ressurected by Fitz. Plus, he was a prophet... and liked saving the slaves. Very Bg-ish. Very much Turnabout-ish and Assencion-ish.
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SimDing0's horrible attack on BG1NPC
For the casual observer, the "horrible attack" mainly involved my discouraging future modders from adopting Domi's cherished project management model. She then invited me to kill myself in various unpleasent ways. (I actually felt guilty at the time, since she did seem quite upset, but evidently it has to be milked for all it's worth now.)
So, I am checking how hypocritical they are and if they can take it themselves.
Well, if you're hoping that mod criticism will actually annoy me (and good luck), a good start would be to look at the content I actually produced. You could try one of the forums where I invite people to post their negative opinions at length.
Jealous of jcompton's writing, probably.
I don't think Domi is likely to be jealous. She's always been happy with her own sacred interpretations of character. But I should stop being mean. We've done some modding, so let's be pleased with that! Who's enjoying Turnabout?
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For the casual observer, the "horrible attack" mainly involved my discouraging future modders from adopting Domi's cherished project management model.
Do finish the sentnce, Sim: by trashing years and years of dedicated work by that very Domi based on a couple sentences pulled out of context and being petulant about having to talk to Theodur about his character. And yep, I had been on tranquilizers after that, for the first time after I had to face the collapse of my country in 1998. And I never, ever heard you say 'sorry.' In fact you appeared to be gloating over it.
Well, if you're hoping that mod criticism will actually annoy me (and good luck), a good start would be to look at the content I actually produced. You could try one of the forums where I invite people to post their negative opinions at length.
Unfortunately, your mods are highly non-interesting to me and I have no desire to pick through TRAs to find something to post under the big capital OMG! as if it really bothers me.
But that portrait, that portrait put on the front page next to Yoshimo and a saucy wench... it's just so... wrong and so obvious. It's like that TDD map someone metioned that had "Beregost" pillar in the middle of it.
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So, I am electing this portrait to become my soap box, onto which I am going to jump JC-like and start speaking about the sloppiness and lack of artistical talent on PPG every time I see the most minute chance to worm it in. I am not going to enjoy it, for sure, but I do so hate seeing Chade's face in Gorion's stead.
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@Domi
I bear you no ill will. I'm going to simply post an observation. This is the third or fourth time I've seen you post inflammatory things here at PPG. Normally it is directed at SimDing0. I'm not going to say whether it is deserved or not, because that is an argument that will never produce any winner.
This time, however, you have directed your wrath at PPG as a whole. If your issue is with SimDing0 and you are truly genuine in your desire to see if he has moral character or not, you should discuss it with SimDing0. I believe he has the moral integrity to take any criticism you or anyone else can dish out. What you should not do is blast him and anyone who happens to be in the general area. This just makes you look bad, and serves no real purpose. It doesn't even make you feel better, as evidenced by your numerous attacking posts. I have seen your work and I think you have the potential to be a valuable asset to the IE community. Please don't prove me wrong by continuing this line of attack.
EDIT:
spelling...
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Thank you for your observation. Sim posted an inflammatory observation personally directed at me and meant to bait me only what? a week or so ago at G3. Well, I think I would have been inclined to make these observations to JC in private, and let it be, if Sim did not post his thinly veiled hint...
Now, why involve PPG? Simple! It has this famous 'tight editorial control', you see. Which apprently does not prevent them to have the art cover for Assassin's Apprentis displayed on the banner for their mod on their front page and switch Chade into Gorion. So, it is at least as failable as the lose editorial control. QED.
I have seen your work and I think you have the potential to be a valuable asset to the IE community.
So in your view my work so far was insufficient to make me a valuable asset? Am I a liability?
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Domi, this is a perfect example of how you bait people into arguments. My comment was meant as a compliment towards you. It's not your modding work that might make you a liability, but your need to view constructive criticism as a personal attack. My post was meant to save you the heartache of creating more animosity, but apparently you didn't take it that way. For some reason you seem to have a wish to make enemies out of friends...
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E pluribus unum?!?
Actually after having DLed the mod I must say that the casual gamer would find it a rather suiting portrait I guess. I wish his beard was a tad longer, but the image is way to small to pull that off.
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:'( This thread makes me sad.
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Domi, this is a perfect example of how you bait people into arguments. My comment was meant as a compliment towards you. It's not your modding work that might make you a liability, but your need to view constructive criticism as a personal attack. My post was meant to save you the heartache of creating more animosity, but apparently you didn't take it that way. For some reason you seem to have a wish to make enemies out of friends...
I agree, such behaivor as I am exhibiting now should be condemned. Each and every time it is exhibited. By whoever exhibits it. Whereever it is exhibited. So, I am condeming myself for doing it, I am weeping while doing it, but I feel it is important to do it nonetheless.
a rather suiting portrait I guess
Appart from the fact that it is *Chade*, not Gorion. A character who has a very different destiny and talents. It's just not right.
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I am merely suggesting that only people with sizeable knowledge in certain materials would take offence. I am not arguing that some do, but I would say that their number is not that great. After all changing a portrait is not rocket science. Even a jester can pull it off on a good day. ::)
Actually I pictured him to be more like this as old sages have a tendency to grow a lot of hair and long beards in my mind:
http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=1037
I know it says Merlin, but what the heck?
http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=2161 A bit more like a druid, but I always saw him as a wanderer. Crop the wolves and he is set to go. :D
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One can change it, of course. But why start with the portrait that has a problem of clearly and recognizably being someone else to start with?
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We have a sad thread in a nice happy mod release. :(
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The current portrait used for Gorion will be replaced once a custom portrait is complete. The choice was make-do since we found out it came from cover art on a book, but since no one responsible for choosing the graphic recognized it, we did not feel using it until a suitable replacement was created would cause dismay.
I had not planned to address this enhancement until preparing version 2 of the mod, but your complaint has been noted, Domi. Please be advised I will prioritize working on this task this week.
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Thank you, I appreciate that.
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I had to face the collapse of my country in 1998.
Absolutely by no means is this a question in line of some others in this thread, just an honest curiousity :) : which country collapssed in 1998?
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It was one of the scheduled econimic crisis in Russia, the worst one on my memory and the one that scared me enough to run and never consider a return. My mother looked seventy when I came back from England - at forty-seven. People turned head when someone laughed in the streets. The line up of well-dressed, young 'elite' workers to register for unemployement was km long. Moscow never looked more gloomy, not even in the hungry nineties; the feeling was: it's all lost, it will never be bright again. There was just no hope at all... It was horrid. If I ever considered a suicide, it was in these days.
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Slightly on topic:
Is the PC's mother available only if PC is human or something (having seen that which I think is the portrait for her)?
@Domi:
Come on, you don't need to be so fiery.
We all have had our share of flames (given and received), but I think we're never "really" hostile (generic "we" for generic users of these gaming forums, we all know each other somewhat).
I've had some of the most heated flaming contests in forum history with TGM, but I work with him, and I assure you that I consider him a very good friend, even if a "virtual" one :)
Bad days happen, as do debates that take the wrong turn. ::)
I don't think people at PPG "hate" you, even though I agree that some of them, sometimes, have that kind of attitude you feel a bit -uh- confused about ;D
Hope you'll all come to terms and re-start to collaborate, if some collaboration was lost. :)
P.S.: hope the situation is normalizing in Russia, somewhat? (I'm a deep ignorant in such matters, I'm ashamed...).
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Slightly, uhm, on topic:
Is the PC's mother available only if PC is human or something (having seen that which I think is the portrait for her)?
No, she is always available. There are three different portraits to help satisfy the budding Gregor Mendels of the mod-playing world.
P.S.: hope the situation is normalizing in Russia, somewhat? (I'm a deep ignorant in such matters, I'm ashamed...).
Discussions about the collapse of modern nations aren't really what I consider a BG2 modding forum's chief stock in trade, but if you absolutely must pursue this line of discussion, go here (http://forums.pocketplane.net/index.php/topic,20219.0.html).
Similarly, I'd recommend separate Blather threads for any referenda on Domi's worth or my boundless capacity for cruelty.
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Well, it does seem to me that you're all trying your best to be unpleasant.
So, I'll just leave this place.
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*cue music* http://www.moviewavs.com/cgi-bin/moviewavs.cgi?Star_Wars=imperial.wav
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Well, it does seem to me that you're all trying your best to be unpleasant.
It is good to know our efforts have not gone unnoticed.
-Echon
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How come Tutu only gets bug reports, and not inflammatory topics like this? I will take it as a compliment that people must think our bugs are in-character and flow well with the existing plot.
As for the portrait, yeah, I'm glad it's changing, too. I've only seen the squishy version from the Turnabout poster art thing, but it doesn't look like it quite jives with BG2's style.
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How come Tutu only gets bug reports, and not inflammatory topics like this? I will take it as a compliment that people must think our bugs are in-character and flow well with the existing plot.
The nerdy, intelligent types must post there. Drama kings and queens else where?
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Dear Domi and everybody else I offended/failed to impress, I apologise for my crap Dynaheir writing.
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Dear Domi and everybody else I offended/failed to impress, I apologise for my crap Dynaheir writing.
You impressed me. :(
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Dear Domi and everybody else I offended/failed to impress, I apologise for my crap Dynaheir writing.
You impressed me. :(
Thanks, Ice. :)
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Dear Domi and everybody else I offended/failed to impress, I apologise for my crap Dynaheir writing.
You impressed me. :(
Me, too. But I always love your writing, cliffette. :)
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If it helps... I haven't read it!
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I think Cliffette did a great job, and should not apologize at all for her Dynaheir.
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How come Tutu only gets bug reports, and not inflammatory topics like this? I will take it as a compliment that people must think our bugs are in-character and flow well with the existing plot.
Oh there was one or two which was not a bug report rather something like "Wahta bunch ov cr**! Dont dawnload this s***!" ;D
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How come Tutu only gets bug reports, and not inflammatory topics like this? I will take it as a compliment that people must think our bugs are in-character and flow well with the existing plot.
Oh there was one or two which was not a bug report rather something like "Wahta bunch ov cr**! Dont dawnload this s***!" ;D
True, there are those, but I tend to ignore Sim's and my own posts these days. :) Too much complaining.
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If it helps... I haven't read it!
I too am yet to try the mod, so I'll have to remain neutrally Swiss-like for the time being.
Buggery! I just spilt yoghurt over my keyboard.
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Buggery! I just spilt yoghurt over my keyboard.
Didn't you split some water over it a month ago? (http://forums.spellholdstudios.net/index.php?showtopic=15660&st=120#)
I'm glad I'm not a keyboard then ;)
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Some people can't hold their liquor ;D ;) ;D :pirate
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Buggery! I just spilt yoghurt over my keyboard.
Didn't you split some water over it a month ago? (http://forums.spellholdstudios.net/index.php?showtopic=15660&st=120#)
I'm glad I'm not a keyboard then ;)
I did indeed. I'm such a spaz. :P
Luckily, the damage from the yoghurt seems rather superficial; there's mainly just a slight whiff of strawberries.
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Yep. We can get back to talking about Turnabout any time now.
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I've downloaded although not played yet and am at work. What's the offending article?
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Yep. We can get back to talking about Turnabout any time now.
You want us to get back on topic?
So, ah, this pool, can it also summon Fitz?
How was that?
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Yep. We can get back to talking about Turnabout any time now.
You want us to get back on topic?
So, ah, this pool, can it also summon Fitz?
How was that?
I'm rather interested in keyboard cleaning tips though. Any suggestions?
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Yep. We can get back to talking about Turnabout any time now.
You want us to get back on topic?
So, ah, this pool, can it also summon Fitz?
How was that?
I'm rather interested in keyboard cleaning tips though. Any suggestions?
Roofles. :)
Some slightly moist bog roll seems to do the trick where yoghurt is concerned.
Oh, and I'm really looking forwards to trying out the mod.
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Dear Domi and everybody else I offended/failed to impress, I apologise for my crap Dynaheir writing.
It was not the writing, the writing was very nice. What I thought was odd on the Screenshot was that Dynaheir, who chose to stay with Charname to the bitter end, and died (presumably fighting for him/her) in Irenicus' Dungeon would consider turning cloak and joining Melissan - or at least that's how it sounded on the screenshot posted. Taken out of context, of course, and can have an explanation and be a part of a large dialogue and addressed to an evil PC etc, etc, etc....
Another strange bit of text (for me) on the screenshots was Gorion exhibiting the paternal concern in regards to PC's bedtime (with the obligatory reference to Imoen)
This is not the point though, the point is that in every and all cases, one inclined so can pull out something and start being annoying about it. It's surely not the best way of proving one's point, but I had been wanting to do so for quite a while, and so I did when I saw my opening - it did not require big investment of my time, only some precursory browsing. Heck, I did not even bother to download the mod (and I had no intention to do so). I just sat there and pocked in the same hole I found after looking at it for two minutes. Which created a goodly 50+ post thread with a few hundred views. They could have neutralized me with Bons' post or similar in a matter of a few minutes after the very first post of mine. But they've reacted just like everyone else - jumped on the defensive and tried to start discussing me, not the portrait or the mod.
I consider the conflict I carried inside me resolved to my satisfaction. At a price to myself, surely, but it was a price I was willing to pay.
Back to the yogurts now, peolpe.
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But they've reacted just like everyone else - jumped on the defensive and tried to start discussing me, not the portrait or the mod.
Patently untrue. I addressed your complaint very directly here (http://forums.pocketplane.net/index.php/topic,20533.msg267029.html#msg267029), then stopped taking you seriously when it became clear you were on a silly little crusade to spotlight the scourge of meanieness.
I consider the conflict I carried inside me resolved to my satisfaction. At a price to myself, surely, but it was a price I was willing to pay.
I'll be sure to add a bullet point about Turnabout's power to help players along a journey of personal self-discovery.
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OMG I AM the Walrus and I just DL ed it yesterday. IT REALLY WORKS. get it now.
I am so happy this thread has climaxed and is on its way out .... of the window, topicwise at least.
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Haha the Court Jester is funny.
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Yes, It is truly one of Danny Kaye's best performances.
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Plus, it increases the post count! I am shooting for at least 200 posts on the topic of this major deficiency!
I hope ya don't give me a curse or something, but ("major deficiency" :o) you do sound a little like Isaea.
If this counts as "offensive", I gladly erase this post, because, in the words of Yoda: I mean you no harm.
Yes yes, I know. This is not the Star Wars Forum.
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Each and every forum is a Star Wars forum. :pirate
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It is? When did this happen, and where were I?
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It is? When did this happen, and where were I?
It has always been like this. You didn't know? You see, sometimes it's good to read manuals.