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BG2 Completed Mods => Event Modding: Iron Modder and One-Day NPC => Topic started by: Opalescence on October 14, 2004, 01:48:56 AM

Title: Bruceday Discussion
Post by: Opalescence on October 14, 2004, 01:48:56 AM
If I may, you really should make Bruce a Barbarian.  That's the only class so far that has been largely neglected.  Perhaps this could be more than simply a 1-day thing; we could have a Solua or Kesley style marathon mod on it, because it's truly worth it in my opinion.  My idea was: there is such a huge focus on magic in the game.  Think about it: Irenicus is a mage.  Mellissan is a mage.  The Cowled Idiots are mages.  Imoen is a mage.  Kesley is a sorceror.  I've noticed the vast majority of people who play these types of games fall into two catagories: Grunts and Mages.  There's this game named "Guild Wars", and if you'll notice, the two most common types are Warrior Monks who fight and ressurect, and the ubiquitous mage.  I feel this should be addressed.  I mean, looka here, the closest we really have to a pure tankazoid is Minsc or Saerevok.

Bruce, then should be the first NPC whose focus is on Dex and Con, a bit in Str, and very little in Cha, Wis, and Int (though while his Wis and Cha can be quite low, even grunts should, from a role-playing POV, have at least minimal intelligence, so maybe like 8).

Another thing: is it possible to recreate the Watcher's Keep Null Magic Field?  It would be really, really interesting if Bruce's quest involved going to his home village, where maybe there's this shaman curse that prevents magic.  Then we could see just how effective we were without our spells; and Bruce suddenly becomes really powerful.

One last thing: we should give attention to the poor under-represented weapons in the game.  Even with the Under-repped mod, I didn't feel there was that much of a "coolness" factor to, say, Halberds as there are to Katanas and Celestial Fury, or Long Swords and Blackrazor.  We should come up with a cool, under-represented item like a halberd for this guy.  Maybe a vorpal halberd called the "Decapitator"?   ;)  It doesn't really matter in the end I guess but it should prove interesting.

In any case, it's just an idea.  You're probably going to go ahead with the 1-day thing, that's cool but I see real potential to add an element to the game that's been missing.

Classes and NPCs that cover 'em:
Divine: Aerie, Viconia, Anomen, Keldorn
Magic (Mage): Imoen, Jan, Edwin
Magic (Sorcery, originally under-represented): Kesley
Mostly Melee: Valygar, Haerdalis, Minsc, Sarevok, Korgan, Jaheira
  Underrepresented Melee Classes:
    Monk: nobody
    Barbarian: Bruce?
Mostly Ranged: Jan? Imoen?  This might be construed as underrepresented too, but Cailen looks like he's fixing it by being an NPC Archer class.
Thievery: Yoshimo, Jan, Imoen.  A pure thief you can pull through the whole game, with some really compelling story elements, has yet to appear.

Of course, I KNOW there are plenty of mods adding monks and pure thieves to the game.  But what I mean by nobody for Monk is nobody has yet made a Kesley or Solafein quality mod for a Monk NPC.  I see Bruce as a perfect oppurtunity to make a Kesley or Sola quality mod for the underrepresented Barbarians, which unlike monks (Balthazar and his monastary) do not seem to appear at ALL in EITHER SoA or ToB.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Pirengle on October 14, 2004, 02:50:01 AM
This is also a 1-day challenge to make a male character that is everything Kelsey, the PPG superstar, is not. The people with more experience and talent and capabilities (the black-belt WeiDU ninjas) can work on creating functioning characters. But piddly little green belts like me are challenged enough by the thought of a flirt routine, let alone writing and coding one. So I will be using the 1-day challenge to make flirts and banters and other random and silly things. These things will be challenging for me, yet any other gakusei from the WeiDU Dojo could have them done in an hour or less.

I'm also hoping I can attach myself to some modder and be on call for extraneous material. ("I need a nipple-tweaking flirt and FAST!" "Right boss!")
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: colbruce on October 14, 2004, 02:57:18 AM
I only wish, at this point, that I could participate in the creation of "Col. Bruce Hampton, the Retired Cockney Barfighter."

But alas, I yet know not the art of NPC creation.  I have only begun to study the necessary scrolls.   I'm stuck w/ Pirengle, willing to contribute what I can do to someone else's "collaborate for a week and take-down jcompton's 1-day" attempt.  j/k

I do have a custom Bruce soundset, and multiple CBH portrait options, already made - if anyone wants to collaborate on implementing them into a functioning weidu NPC, contact me.
(http://www.boomspeed.com/colbruce/COLBRU3L.bmp)

-- "colbruce"
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: jester on October 14, 2004, 04:51:02 AM
@Pirengle: Here you go. May your Bruce be a flirty pirate with a late parrot.

Second Bruce    Goodday, Bruce!
First Bruce    Oh, Hello Bruce!
Third Bruce    How are yer Bruce?
First Bruce    Bit crook, Bruce.
Second Bruce    Where's Bruce?

http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode22.htm#2
http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Sounds.html

BTW We should be stocking up on 'I am with Bruce' t-shirts.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: nethrin on October 14, 2004, 05:37:33 AM
@opalescence: kindrek (http://chosenofmystra.db-forge.com/mystra_forum/viewforum.php?f=60) is a tankazoid.

@pirengle: there is little on this planet that is more un-cockney than monty python.   ;)  I mean, that is somewhat educated humor (philosophers' football game), and cockneys don't get it.  aristotle?  who?



well, I'm in.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Grim Squeaker on October 14, 2004, 05:41:52 AM
I may be able to offer voicing for a Bruce.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: jester on October 14, 2004, 06:12:00 AM
*Grim enters as Robert the Bruce*

http://www.britannia.com/bios/robertbruce.html
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Alarielle on October 14, 2004, 06:16:30 AM
I read that as 'Robot the Bruce'...
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Grim Squeaker on October 14, 2004, 09:07:59 AM
I read that as 'Robot the Bruce'...

Silly girl :P
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: seanas on October 14, 2004, 11:35:09 AM
'bruce' isn't a very cockney name though, is it? i thought it was associated - as the monty python excerpt ilustrates - with australians (there's a typo in the quote, too: *no* aussie says 'goodday'. it's spelt 'g'day') (although bruce dickinson is a pretty convincing counter-example, i have to admit).

i've been trying to think of what yr average milwall supporter (the closest thing i can think of to a legit cockney, given that no working class ppl can afford to live within earshot of bow bells anymore) might be called, but i'm at a bit of a loss (i tend to associate with anti-milwall fans: ie palace supporters). the best i can come up with is 'dave', err, 'andy', 'micky'/'mike' (mike skinner is a right geezer, but i can't see him getting into barfights) or 'brian'. and a few links :):

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,972874,00.html
http://www.londonslang.com/
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=geezer&r=f and http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chav&r=f
http://www.chavscum.co.uk/index.php
http://www.thevalkyrie.com/clubhouse/cockney/index.htm

err, that's probably enough to be going on with for now...
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: jester on October 14, 2004, 12:41:08 PM
My money would be on the f**ing pikie, One Punch Mickey.

http://outnow.ch/Media/Img/2000/Snatch/?i=set%2F15%2Ejpg&w=266&h=377

See Guy Ritchie's Snatch (http://www.empiremovies.com/movies/2001/snatch.shtml) for further details. :D
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Andyr on October 14, 2004, 01:36:54 PM
See Guy Ritchie's Snatch

I'll leave that comment alone. ;)
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Opalescence on October 14, 2004, 01:43:22 PM
@nethrin: Kindrek is a tank, perhaps, but he's a berserker.  What I really meant to say was that there has been no real attempt at modding up a cool NPC barbarian.  Even monks and sorcs have been done, the only one left is the Barbarian.  This dude Bruce just seems like such a good candidate!
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: jester on October 14, 2004, 02:04:43 PM
@Andyr: :P Dang, I knew I should have rephrased that.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: nethrin on October 14, 2004, 04:23:47 PM
thinking about bruce: he should be an unarmed fighter, since he's a barfighter.  but I think making him a monk would be a mistake?  what do you guys think?
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Rabain on October 14, 2004, 04:47:56 PM
I can just see this, the PC and 5 other party members all called Bruce.

Imagine the interjections! It'd look like a CHAIN for one NPC!!

Could be interesting...
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: seanas on October 14, 2004, 05:54:19 PM
thinking about bruce: he should be an unarmed fighter, since he's a barfighter.  but I think making him a monk would be a mistake?  what do you guys think?

nah, it'd have to be grand mastery in morningstar: the closest things to 'broken pint glass' in the BGII world. also: club (self-evident) and maybe spear (broken fence post/ railing/ signpost) and short sword (shiv). missile weapons: sling or crossbow (also self-evident).
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: nethrin on October 14, 2004, 08:30:46 PM
nah, it'd have to be grand mastery in morningstar: the closest things to 'broken pint glass' in the BGII world. also: club (self-evident) and maybe spear (broken fence post/ railing/ signpost) and short sword (shiv). missile weapons: sling or crossbow (also self-evident).

good point.  I would go as far as club, but certainly no further.  my opinion.  on the other hand, true barfighters will use anything, right?  anything is a weapon in the hands of a barfighter.....
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Reverendratbastard on October 14, 2004, 09:23:08 PM
Bruce, then should be the first NPC whose focus is on Dex and Con, a bit in Str, and very little in Cha, Wis, and Int

  ??? you can't swing a dead polecat in the bioware casting room without hitting somebody with 18 DEX *and* 16 CON.  if you tried really hard (and relied on charname for any desired thief abilities) you could just barely fill the party with the entire bioware complement of DEX losers; four of them have champion CONs and three of *those* can wear the heaviest armor.  kudos for giving kelsey and keto balanced stats, at the risk of looking weak.  on the tutu/bgt tip, i'd kinda prefer to keep minsc and jaheira at their originals...  but then again i'd rather get on with the 3e wave...

  *waggle* sorry, what was i straying from? oh yes.
  barbarian sounds fantastic.  (not to mention that half-orcs are also underrep'd - 19str, anyone?)  although a retired or disgraced monk with a new identity to escape his humiliation... hmmm....  a half-orc who *wanted* to be a monk...
  is the non-proficiency penalty hard-coded?  what if bruce could have a reduced penalty, and only allowed advanced proficiencies in the simpler weapons (club, mace, dagger, crossbow).  a barbarian kit - brawler - with rebated monk attacks?

EDIT: more sensible last paragraph.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: cliffette on October 15, 2004, 05:22:21 AM
Bruce does have Australian connotations... however, if you say "Bruce, innit?", Bruce suddenly becomes cockney, innit?
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: nethrin on October 15, 2004, 04:59:09 PM
bruce likes his name, dunnee?   ;)
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Dark Raven on October 16, 2004, 08:07:07 PM
A odd concept but original.  ;D Maybe he should be a dwarf since he's would be speaking broken English.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Reverendratbastard on October 16, 2004, 09:46:44 PM
A odd concept but original.  ;D Maybe he should be a dwarf since he's would be speaking broken English.

  or as a sort of offshoot/parallel concept of warcraft's scottish dwarves...
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Ghreyfain on October 17, 2004, 06:36:19 AM
or as a sort of offshoot/parallel concept of warcraft's scottish dwarves...

You give Blizzard too much credit.  All dwarves--from the dawn of history to the current day--have had scottish accents.  Except Kagain, for some reason.

Oh, and DWARFBAR, the epitome of dwarfdom, has a scottish accent (faux).
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Reverendratbastard on October 17, 2004, 08:02:45 AM
can't remember the animated hobbit flick, but i can remember recordings of tolkien reading his own material and 'tweren't much of a brogue there.  warcraft2 was the first time i can recall the connection.  definitely not the deal for games workshop either - they've got pure norse ties, not by way of any crazy isles neither.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: EarthquakeDamage on October 17, 2004, 08:12:14 AM
You could make him an unarmed Fighter with a "spiked knuckle" weapon that uses [insert proficiency here] and uses no graphics, giving the illusion of punching.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: nethrin on October 17, 2004, 06:11:24 PM
I heard an interesting factoid (but I'm not sure how much truth is in it): the average cockney has a vocabulary of 500 words.  is that even possible??
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Lord Phallion on October 17, 2004, 10:11:51 PM
How about a single class swashbuckler, mabey a dwarf or half orc?  Stats = STR 16 DEX 18 CON 16 INT 8 WIS 6 CHA 10.  BTW where can i learn how to creat this?
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: jcompton on October 17, 2004, 10:41:14 PM
Ghreyfain's NPC tutorial on our tutorial board (http://forums.pocketplane.net/index.php?board=16.0) is the definitive word on the subject.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: shnurple on October 17, 2004, 11:48:44 PM
Gday mates? How ya doin'? 'just grabbed a gander at the site while i was waitin for me billy to boil. Bloody awesome bugger of a plan!

am i the only australian in this forum?
Shnurple

P.S. if anyone wants to forget stereotypes for 5 secs and fly down for some crocodile wrestling, give me a buzz  :P

P.S. P.S. looks like lots of fun, and the barbarian idea rocks.

P.S. P.S. P.S. remember, crocodile wrestling

P.S. P.S. P.S. P.S. should i stop now?  ;D
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Reverendratbastard on October 18, 2004, 12:46:16 AM
am i the only australian in this forum?

 nope.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: shnurple on October 18, 2004, 08:04:00 PM
glad to see i have some company
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: lennon on October 19, 2004, 11:21:39 AM
Pirengle : Bruce the Barbarian was a visitor to the UK in the seventies, he was a cartoon character written by Murray Ball (a Kiwi I believe) and he populated the pages of "Labour Weekly". Since he generally got into fights with the police on picket lines, i) he lost and ii) may not be the ideal role model you were thinking of.  ;D

Seanas :  Perhaps he should be called Darren, although its not exactly a Bow Bells name, more Basildon.,  :-\

Cliffette: "innit" ain't cockney any more "don-cha no"   ;) , its been colonised by others - including the "Goodness Gracious me cast" - now there's an inspiration for a 24 hour NPC - "Bangraman" & his arch-nemisis "Morris wallah".
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Pirengle on October 19, 2004, 11:39:36 PM
Pirengle : Bruce the Barbarian was a visitor to the UK in the seventies, he was a cartoon character written by Murray Ball (a Kiwi I believe) and he populated the pages of "Labour Weekly". Since he generally got into fights with the police on picket lines, i) he lost and ii) may not be the ideal role model you were thinking of. ;D

Whenever I hear the name Bruce I always think of the Philosopher's Song skit from Monty Python's Live at the Hollywood Bowl.

I also interpret el cr0mpt0ni's rules to mean we create Kelsey's antithesis. Or someone with talent creates Kelsey's antithesis. I have a thesis, so prolly no Bruce for me. :(
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: nethrin on October 20, 2004, 07:20:35 AM
I've roped one of my authentic cockney friends to help me with the writing of the mod (he knows nothing of coding--he may not even know if BGII exists!).  anyway, he told me bruce is not at all a cockney name.  it's not that NO cockney is named "bruce," but that if you're doing a mod about a cockney, he should have a TYPICAL cockney name.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: lennon on October 20, 2004, 02:55:48 PM
I've roped one of my authentic cockney friends to help me with the writing of the mod (he knows nothing of coding--he may not even know if BGII exists!).  anyway, he told me bruce is not at all a cockney name.  it's not that NO cockney is named "bruce," but that if you're doing a mod about a cockney, he should have a TYPICAL cockney name.

Seanas in his letter describes the problem of doing a cockney.

The East End  has changed .

I suggested that Bruce should be the Basiildon Bar Fighter, we could call him Darrel. If you genuinely wanted a current east end name, it might be Jules, Denzil or Derek (Delboy)  or maybe Sanjiv, representing those that want a short commute to Canary Wharf where they do a bit of trading (not much bar fighting here), Delboy having travelled up from Peckham (not much fighting here) or the more recently arrived Bengali community. (not much fighting here)  :)

Why don't you "borrow" the naked chef's name - Jamie! - he's about as close as to cockney as you get these days.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Reverendratbastard on October 20, 2004, 03:05:06 PM

 the vagaries of carrying out a humorous stereotype under the sweeping gaze of an International Community...  8)
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Pirengle on October 20, 2004, 05:05:26 PM
the vagaries of carrying out a humorous stereotype under the sweeping gaze of an International Community... 8)

The notion that this idea's been killed deader than a damn horse...

Note the lack of a snappy metaphor.

I also find it hilarious that the majority of posters in this thread will not be participating in Bruceday, cockney or not. Unless someone cares to make me eat crow. :P
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: nethrin on October 20, 2004, 05:28:17 PM
ah, it'll be great fun!  we love stereotypes..... ;)

one problem with this mod, my friend pointed out, is that cockneys a GENERALLY racist.
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: Bons on October 20, 2004, 06:08:20 PM
What is or is not purist Cockney is a moot point here, as is questioning the name Bruce. The character is going to be in the FR universe, not the East End. Reality is being stretched. Stereotypes are being misrepresented. The theme has been set. Quit fretting about it!

If the rule-bending nature of the theme really does not suit a modder, I suggest they pick their own day and make their own One-Day NPC to suit their own character concept that is non-Cockney, non-barfighter, and not named Bruce. 

Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: neriana on October 20, 2004, 07:49:53 PM
If the rule-bending nature of the theme really does not suit a modder, I suggest they pick their own day and make their own One-Day NPC to suit their own character concept that is non-Cockney, non-barfighter, and not named Bruce. 

Brewse.
Title: Re: Bruceday Discussion
Post by: colbruce on October 25, 2004, 02:17:30 AM
I just think more people should make Bruce related mods in general.  I don't care what country or ethnicity you make the character come from.  Just make many-a-Bruce.  Brucii - the plural form?

Yours,
Col. Bruce Hampton, Retired

Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: nethrin on October 25, 2004, 05:45:44 PM
What is or is not purist Cockney is a moot point here, as is questioning the name Bruce. The character is going to be in the FR universe, not the East End.

oh, contraire.  my bruce will certainly be from the east end.  he's a cockney, after all.  since there's no such thing as a FR cockney, I guess it pretty much narrows it down where he has to be from, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Bruceday Discussion
Post by: Reverendratbastard on October 25, 2004, 07:39:22 PM

 au contraire de la contraire! (or something)  any world that has been besmirched by the intrusion of a Spelljammer<tm> rapidly becomes devoid of 'no such thing as' states.  :P
Title: Re: Bruceday Discussion
Post by: jack on October 26, 2004, 03:18:34 AM
aaaah, yes. spelljammer: the worst D&D idea ever.  be that as it may, I don't think even a cockney is dumb enough to get on a spelljamming ship!   ;)
Title: Re: International One-Day Bruceday, November 13
Post by: nethrin on November 10, 2004, 12:10:41 AM
The character is going to be in the FR universe, not the East End. Reality is being stretched.

wrong.  my bruce will be from london.

he says stuff that even I don't understand.
Title: Re: Bruceday Discussion
Post by: Bons on November 10, 2004, 06:57:56 AM
Have fun.
Title: Re: Bruceday Discussion
Post by: nethrin on November 10, 2004, 08:36:39 AM
yeah, seriously.   ;D

I had to cheat and get the voicing done ahead of time because my friend (the voicer) lives in fukushima, and I live in tokyo (it's about a 3-hour bullet-train ride).  so we had to do the voicing on a weekend when he could come down.

anyway, I listen to the voiced lines and think "what the hell does that mean?"   ;)