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Topic Summary

Posted by: Avenger_teambg
« on: December 19, 2005, 11:46:10 AM »

Actually, if Yoshimo's katana works for half orcs, then the developers didn't really want to restrict its usage to Yoshimo.
There is no way to turn Yoshimo to half-orc, so there is no point to let them use it :)

But it is possible to create weapons that work for exactly one NPC.
Scripting can solve a lot of problems :)

Either add a checker snippet to baldur.bcs (quite ugly), or dplayer3. (or 2?), whatever.
You can also add a script via the item itself.
Posted by: Kanain
« on: December 17, 2005, 02:28:53 PM »

@Drew:

Of course you are correct from a suspension of disbelief point of view.  I just feel that if they are going to tell me that it isn't possible, then it absolutely shouldn't be.
Posted by: Drew
« on: December 17, 2005, 12:17:35 PM »

Most NPC only items really work as described.  If you flag enough stat checks the weapon will appear to be useable only by that NPC.  Think about it.  Before you started opening up the game files and finding out how they worked, how many NPC only items were you actually able to use?  I think the bioware implementation is fine.
Posted by: Kanain
« on: December 17, 2005, 09:09:30 AM »

It's quite true that any potential character can wield any of these "only for NPC" weapons.  The major stumbling block for Yoshimo's Katana, for instanace, is that you have to be true neutral.  You also have to be either Human or Half-Orc.  Other than that you can be lots of classes that could potentially wield any Katana.  I used Shadow Keeper to make my fighter true neutral and now he can wield Yoshimo's Katana.  Wow, I have to say my respect for the implementation of this game has been lowered somewhat.  If the Devs considered it important to the storyline to have items useable only by certain NPCs, which is implied by the item's description, then they should have made dang sure that it was the case.  Otherwise...why bother?  I don't get it.

On the other hand I'm glad I know this.  I mean, since it's not really possible to make a weapon NPC specific then I'm not going to bother trying to make my weapon PC specific even if I could do it with scripting.  The whole concept shouldn't even be in the game's item descriptions to begin with if you ask me.
Posted by: Lu
« on: December 17, 2005, 08:56:23 AM »

Quote
I am going to investigate it further when I get home from work this morning
   And that's what I expect you to do actually. I hope you'll let us know of the results
Posted by: Kanain
« on: December 17, 2005, 04:38:45 AM »

@Lu:

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying you're wrong or that I don't believe you.  I am dubious, yes, this much is true.  However, right now I'm simply stating that I think the Devs are silly for doing such a thing if this is indeed the case.  I am going to investigate it further when I get home from work this morning....
Posted by: Lu
« on: December 17, 2005, 03:33:20 AM »

@Kanain
 Start DLTCEP. Open any of Yoshi's .CRE files, change Death Variable, dialog, scripts, whatever. Save as new .CRE (use whatever file name you like, but not any of Yoshi's). Find a way to summon a creature who's .CRE file we have now. Have him/her join your party (Yoshi is already in the party). Give Yoshi's sword to the new guy/chick. See the result
Posted by: Kanain
« on: December 17, 2005, 03:19:29 AM »

Quote from: Lu on December 17, 2005, 03:03:31 AM
Quote
powers that be would declare
I am sorry... "be would declare"?
  Anyway, the description is only for you to read it, that's it. Kinda "don't even think of giving it to anyone else, it's for Yoshi only"


"The powers that be" = the writers of the game.  I'm saying that I don't understand why they would declare that the weapon was usable only by a certain NPC when that statement was not true within the game world.  That doesn't make sense.  If they couldn't actually accomplish that, then I question the point of including such things as a part of the game to begin with.  I have tried to wield all of the NPC "exclusive" weapons and I don't recall ever being able to do so, even when my PC matched all the usability selections as seen in DLTCEP.  Like I said to Drew, I could be wrong on that, though.  I simply don't recall ever being able to.

Edit to replace "could" with "would'
Posted by: Lu
« on: December 17, 2005, 03:03:31 AM »

Quote
powers that be would declare
I am sorry... "be would declare"?
  Anyway, the description is only for you to read it, that's it. Kinda "don't even think of giving it to anyone else, it's for Yoshi only"
Posted by: Kanain
« on: December 17, 2005, 02:54:12 AM »

Quote from: Lu on December 17, 2005, 02:34:31 AM
I only meant to make clearer what I referred. And an item description actually is crap, sometimes it's even incorrect (not often though), anyway it doesn't affect anything, sure enough, the engine doesn't care at all what it says. Sorry if it's still not 100% clear. I'm a bit upset now

Yeah I understood what you were saying when I read what Drew posted.  I don't understand why the powers that be would declare that a weapon is only usable by "Insert NPC name here" when that is not the case.  What's the point of bothering to declare such a thing, then?
Posted by: Lu
« on: December 17, 2005, 02:34:31 AM »

Quote
Are you saying that it is the weapon's description which tells the engine that only Yoshimo can use it?  I don't think that's the case
   I only meant to make clearer what I referred. And an item description actually is crap, sometimes it's even incorrect (not often though), anyway it doesn't affect anything, sure enough, the engine doesn't care at all what it says. Sorry if it's still not 100% clear. I'm a bit upset now

  OK, I'll try it again. The description says 'Only usable by Yoshimo', but actually anyone of the proper race, class, and whatever it says in the fields of the .ITM file that determine the item usability can use it
Posted by: Kanain
« on: December 17, 2005, 01:59:50 AM »

Quote from: Drew on December 17, 2005, 01:40:03 AM
Any bounty hunter thief that meets the minimum stats the weapon calls for can use it.  For all reasonable intents and purposes, only Yoshimo can use the weapon since your PC is unlikely to be a bounty hunter, and even if he is, one of the stats the sword checks for may be lower than Yoshimo's.  (making the weapon unuseable)

Actually the weapon isn't restricted to just bounty hunters.  Several other classes who are able to use Katanas are actually checked to have access to the weapon as well.  Any ...neutral or neutral... who is human or half orc of those classes should be able to use it.  I don't recall my neutral good human figher to be able to use it, however.  I could be wrong.  I'm logged into my machine from work right now so I can't test this, but I will when I get home.
Posted by: Drew
« on: December 17, 2005, 01:40:03 AM »

Any bounty hunter thief that meets the minimum stats the weapon calls for can use it.  For all reasonable intents and purposes, only Yoshimo can use the weapon since your PC is unlikely to be a bounty hunter, and even if he is, one of the stats the sword checks for may be lower than Yoshimo's.  (making the weapon unuseable)
Posted by: Kanain
« on: December 17, 2005, 01:17:01 AM »

Quote from: Lu on December 17, 2005, 12:07:36 AM
   If Charname's stats, race, class, etc meet the requirements, then alas, Charname can use weapon, e.g.

  Usable Only By:
  Yosimo

  as the description says

Surely you're jesting with me, but unfortunatley doing a fly by.  Are you saying that it is the weapon's description which tells the engine that only Yoshimo can use it?  I don't think that's the case.
Posted by: Lu
« on: December 17, 2005, 12:07:36 AM »

Quote
Yeah I checked the usability tab to begin with once upon a time.  I don't see anything in there that would, under all circumstances, exclude those weapons from a potential <charname>.  What is it?
   If Charname's stats, race, class, etc meet the requirements, then alas, Charname can use weapon, e.g.

  Usable Only By:
  Yosimo

  as the description says