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Topic Summary

Posted by: Lord Kain
« on: March 28, 2005, 08:37:01 PM »

Quote from: jester on March 28, 2005, 05:56:01 PM
A skinhead being nice to his pitbull doesn't make him a nice person. 

I never said he was a nice person I just said he could be nice. I'm sure many of those SOB's are nice to each other.

Also Nice and good are not the same thing. You can hero who is a complete insensitive jerk. And you can have a villain who is a nice guy as long as your not in his way of his goals. Heroes have depth they can get angry lose thier temper and say cruel things. Villains can also be nice and polite.


Farthington is the standard evil noble. He will tax his people to death, punish them when they don't produce enough crops even during a drought. Why can't he can have friends among the nobles.

In campaign I played in as an evil character, my blackguard didn't insult everyone he thought beneath him (which was most everybody) When he built his mountain stronghold above  a gnomish village. He didn't march down and demand tribute. Or burn the city down to watch them scream. He just left the village alone. It was a farming community and served him better through trade. When the gnomish village was attacked he rode down in full armor and saved the town. He had some affection for the gnomes.

They often brought him minor gifts. They told passing adventures that he was a nice guy who didn't ask anything of them. (so the foolish adventures went on assuming the fortress couldn't belong to a half-fiend blackguard)

Despite being a villain he saved the gnomish village from destruction. In his mind the village was part of HIS domain. And all though served no real useful purpose he would not allow it to be destroyed. It was his after all. In the end the gnomish village was destoryed by a band of flesh eating half-lings (like the kind in the Planar Sphere) Only because the half-ling leader said that they'd worship him.

Farthington might be this caculating villan who just when to pretend to be nice and polite. But on the inside is always thinking of how can I kill or counqer that guy. But I doubt it. I don't give Farthington that much credit.


Posted by: SeanFan
« on: March 28, 2005, 06:28:32 PM »

Quote from: jester on March 28, 2005, 05:56:01 PM
A skinhead being nice to his pitbull doesn't make him a nice person. There is a pretty interesting film which is based off a Traudl Junge's book about her time as Hitler's secretary which is called 'Der Untergang' (The downfall- probably never released/shown anywhere else). The banality of evil was overwhelmingly terrifying for me.

Oh, it's being shown here in the US, in limited release anyway. I haven't seen it yet, but it's getting very good reviews.

Here's the rottentomatoes reviews page for it if you're interested in seeing what US critics are saying:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/downfall/
Posted by: jester
« on: March 28, 2005, 05:56:01 PM »

A skinhead being nice to his pitbull doesn't make him a nice person. There is a pretty interesting film which is based off a Traudl Junge's book about her time as Hitler's secretary which is called 'Der Untergang' (The downfall- probably never released/shown anywhere else). The banality of evil was overwhelmingly terrifying for me.
Posted by: Lord Kain
« on: March 28, 2005, 05:25:06 PM »

I got this info from my Collage history class.  One of the things we watched on WW2 was an interview with his secretary.


It relates because, being evil doesn't mean you murder everyone in your way and act cruel to everyone you meet.

If we look as movies a Mobster is a nice guy to his famly and friends but, at his job. He's a cruel SOB.


Posted by: jester
« on: March 28, 2005, 04:52:52 PM »

Quote
Hitler always said please and thank you.
Where did you get that from and how does that relate to the old chap?
Posted by: Silk
« on: March 28, 2005, 04:44:17 PM »

Damnit, I liked Farthington.  I was incredibly surprised that it was him who turned up to try to kick me out of the keep.  He'd even made some comment at the funeral about some nobles originally coming from common stock.
Posted by: Lord Kain
« on: March 28, 2005, 04:03:22 PM »

Hitler always said please and thank you.

Some of the worst people imaginable seamed like nice guys.
Posted by: Volkh
« on: March 28, 2005, 09:13:44 AM »

Farthington Roenal...at the funeral he seemed like a good person...i guess not
Posted by: Reverendratbastard
« on: February 06, 2005, 10:13:21 PM »

Quote from: Hendryk on February 06, 2005, 09:21:38 PM
But a goody-two-shoes would definitely feel justified in running them out of his stronghold because of their unsavory alignments combined with their positions of trust.
indeed; that's why i appreciate the oversight efforts.  the only better (and thus more complicated/less efficient, naturally) adjustment would be to actually have a way of *replacing* the bugger so as to still have a keep-plot and not just be collecting gold.  or to not dispose of him until he's confirmed the loyal devotion of nalia's subjects...
  even moreso with the play director.
 
Quote
Ike

  :D
Quote
should probably poison him and in his turn, get betrayed by a cousin/rival who's delighted to see the Roenal inheritance come up for grabs and even more joyful at being able to cut Isaea out of a share.
  yar, that's another thing.  other things, even.  there are obviously (i hope) more than two roenalls in amn.  and isaea shouldn't be the only rotten apple, considering just how rotten he is.
  i now feel silly that not even my cavalier ever tried/thought of approaching farthy with the evidence you collect for axehand.  even if i wouldn't, as a player, expect there to be any further options (unmodded) between the funeral and the final stronghold assault.  roleplaying, y'know?
Posted by: Hendryk
« on: February 06, 2005, 09:21:38 PM »

Not kill, I don't suppose.  Not unless my PC caught them actually doing something naughty, which they don't.  But a goody-two-shoes would definitely feel justified in running them out of his stronghold because of their unsavory alignments combined with their positions of trust.

As far as old Farthy goes, I think his alignment is Noble Stupid.  If the PC did manage to make him suspicious of Isaea, Ike should probably poison him and in his turn, get betrayed by a cousin/rival who's delighted to see the Roenal inheritance come up for grabs and even more joyful at being able to cut Isaea out of a share. 
Posted by: Reverendratbastard
« on: February 06, 2005, 09:08:53 PM »

Quote from: Hendryk on February 06, 2005, 08:54:32 PM
Nah, I don't sweat in-game alignments.  If I did, I'd have to kill the major domo in the Keep and the guy that directs the play.
well, hence oversight, right?  among other reasons i'm sure.
 
Quote
I'm just reacting to how Lord R. acts at the funeral - before Isaea's thoroughly warped his mind.
yeah, since i sweat in-game alignments (but am happy to have them corrected by well-thought-out product such as the aforementioned), i translated his attitude into sophisticated LE.  since, you know, they (the evil ones) can be charming or have a sense of humor too.
 
Quote
And so I thought it'd be a nice touch to give a bard PC a chance to do a little pre-emptive unwarping.  Incognito, of course.  Trickery rather than violence just as a change-of-pace.
  definitely.  brilliant.  (so how is it you'd 'have to kill' merely because [hypothetically] you 'sweated' in-game alignments?  :P)
Posted by: Hendryk
« on: February 06, 2005, 08:54:32 PM »

Nah, I don't sweat in-game alignments.  If I did, I'd have to kill the major domo in the Keep and the guy that directs the play.  I'm just reacting to how Lord R. acts at the funeral - before Isaea's thoroughly warped his mind.  And so I thought it'd be a nice touch to give a bard PC a chance to do a little pre-emptive unwarping.  Incognito, of course.  Trickery rather than violence just as a change-of-pace.
Posted by: Reverendratbastard
« on: February 06, 2005, 08:25:08 PM »

Quote from: Hendryk on February 05, 2005, 07:45:14 AM
I've always felt kinda sorry for old Farthington; a dumb, conventional but non-Evil old boy

  not the last time i Detected in his presence.
  is he 'fixed' in the oversight mod or something?
Posted by: Lord Kain
« on: February 06, 2005, 07:10:57 PM »

Yeah if you don't have nalia in the party you can kill lord Roenall before sending Iasea to jail
Posted by: Hendryk
« on: February 05, 2005, 07:45:14 AM »

I've always felt kinda sorry for old Farthington; a dumb, conventional but non-Evil old boy who has plainly been severely manipulated by wily Isaea.  Might be a nice response if a PC bard (who, I suppose, could get the Keep if romancing Nalia) or even Keto should, incognito, entertain the Roenals with a story of a "good" nobleman who is undone by his scheming wife (we never meet Isaea's mother) and the 'cuckoo in the nest'; i.e., an illegitimate son, Isaea.  The idea would be to plant a substantial seed of doubt in Farthington's mind about Isaea's actual parentage and his motivations so that subsequent encounters with the old boy could play out less to his disadvantage.